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Technomancer
09-06-2009, 10:13
*NOTE: This is a pretty large overhaul on the original idea, which I kept in quotes at the bottom. This class is now something of a D2 combination of Paladin, Amazon, and Assassin. This is pretty much a full class now, without technical game stats.

Background:
Upon the destruction of the Worldstone 20 years ago, a Vizjerei elder concluded that the mortal powers of Order had failed. Secretly, he went to the Viz-Jaq'taar Assassins to share his concerns and make a proposal. Even though the Prime Evils were defeated, mortal powers and agents were still not powerful enough to save the Worldstone. He feared that following it's destruction, things would get worse and proposed that the Assassin's lack of magic was weakness, that the time would soon come to fight fire with fire. He suggested that they should begin to incorporate magic to counter the coming flood. He was rejected outright by most of the clan, and nearly slain on principle, but one Assassin elder had reached a similar conclusion, but didn't know how to act upon it. With this opportunity, he stole away with the Vizjerei elder and a few of the younger clan members, to work on combining their knowledge and powers to create a new breed of mage-knight. Once the Viz-Jaq'taar realized what had transpired, they decreed death for all violators, but the group dissappeared and no one had heard from them to this day. All knowledge of what had transpired was hidden.

They spent years hidden away from the world in the northern reaches near the ruined Mt. Arreat. They honed their skills, focusing less on subversion and more on direct confrontation. From the Assassin's understanding of the mind and martial combat and the Vizjerei elder's understanding of the Elemental magics, a marriage was made into magically enhanced warriors. This combination of studies gave special insights into the nature of the world and gave these new warriors the power to tap into the very elemental threads that are woven into our world and weave them into their own bodies and equipment. They also gained some insight into exploring the Ether. They spent a great deal of time developing methods of countering and diffusing hostile magicks and it's practitioners, as per Assassin tradition, up close and at range. They also knew, however, that the demonic hordes need not rely on magic to reek their destruction, so great emphasis was also placed on raw combat power and fortitude.

With the coming of the falling star, they knew that their time had arrived. They re-emerged into the world to discover what foul forces were involved. While two of the apprentices were away doing reconnaissance, their base of operations was utterly destroyed. Most were killed, the rest were missing. The elders were not among the remains, nor were there any clues as to the perpetrators. Had the Assassins finally caught up to them? Was it the mustering forces of evil? The two apprentices had no answers, but were determined to fulfill their duties. They ventured into the world on their own to discover what evil schemes plotted against Sanctuary and to put it to an end... or die trying...

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Skills:
Base level Enchantment skills are cast by the character and last until overridden with new Enchantments or dispelled. They can be passively augmented with more spectacular effects with different skills. Can have only 1 Weapon and 1 Armor Enchantment active at a time. When special effects are triggered, they automatically drain mana, and if there is no mana, effect is cancelled.


Steel & Fire: This tree focuses on speed and raw destructive output. Uses Fire and Lightning. "A good defense is a good offense."

Tier I:

Burn: Active. Enchants Weapon. Adds fire damage to attacks and increases accuracy. Enables additional Fire Weapon Enchantments.
Jolt: Active. Enchants weapon. Adds electrical damage to attacks and increases attack speed. Enables additional Lightning Weapon Enchantments.
Lightning Spirit: Passive. Increase attack speed and accuracy.
Channeling the Flame: Passive. Increases damage done by Enchantments in this tree.


Tier II:

Twitch: Active. Missile attack. Essentially a Missile based Zeal or fixed # Strafe.
Flame Armor: Active. Enchant Armor. Deal fire damage to any melee attackers. Enables additional Fire Armor Enchantments.
Flame Spray: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Adds a chance to cause a spherical firewall centered on target.
Lightning Rod: Passive. Enchants Weapon. When enemy is struck, a lightning bolt goes from character thru target. Can trigger multiple bolts from one attack. More useful for multiple missiles against clustered enemies.
Missile Mastery: Passive. Increases Damage, Accuracy, and Crit. % of Missile attacks.



Tier III:

Sweep: Active. Melee attack. Spins once in a circle, striking any surrounding enemies within range.
Flame Sabres: Active. Spell. Creates floating swords made of fire that seek targets to attack and deal fire damage. They stay around until attacked and destroyed.
Flame Nova: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Can triggers a fire based nova from target. Increasing rank increases size of effect.
Chain Static: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Causes electrical damage to target that jumps to any units next to them, etc, etc, quickly rippling through tightly packed enemies.
Conflageration: Passive. Enchant Armor. When hit, has a chance of causing the ground around the character to burst into fire for xx seconds.


Tier IV:

Ricochet: Active. Missile attack. When a target is struck, the arrow jumps to the nearest target. Everytime a target is struck, the arrow keeps retargetting up to a skill based maximum or until it misses one.
Thunderclap: Passive. Enchants Weapon. When attacking, has a chance of calling down a lightning bolt on top of character, knocking all foes back next to character and dealing damage.
Burst: Passive. Enchants Armor. When an enemy attacks, has a chance of causing explosive fire damage to targets adjacent to character, knocking them back.
Fire Elemental: Passive. Activates if Burn or Jolt and Flame Armor are active. Transforms into a Fire Elemental, dealing extra fire and increasing Fire and Lightning damage. Also, absorbs fire damage.



Pax Arcanna: This tree focuses on penetrating and neutralizing hostile magics and magicians. Uses skills that interfere with magic, and uses teleportation offensively and defensively. "What good is magic if you're unable to use it?"

Tier I:

Displace: Active. Melee attack. On striking, teleport to another random position next to target. The confusion enhances your defense for x seconds. Has a 3 second cooldown.
Spellbind: Active. Enchants weapon. Has a chance to silence target. Enables additional Magical Weapon Enchantments.
Resist Affliction: Passive. Decreases the chance that negative condition magics can affect character, like chill, slow, silence, etc. and also decreases the duration of such effects if they get through.
Enhanced Spellbinding: Passive. Increases the duration of all effects caused by skills from this tree.


Tier II:

Dispel: Active. Spell. Sends out a shockwave that will dispel any negative magic effects on friendly units.
Mystic Fortress: Active. Enchants armor so that when attacked, fires a silence bolt at attacker. Enables additional Magical Armor Enchantments.
Interference: Passive. Enchants weapon to inflict a condition that causes target's casting rate to be greatly decreased.
Skip: Passive. Enchant Armor. When attacked, has a chance of teleporting to a random location within range. Could be annoying to some players, but to those who thrive on chaos, welcome home! Could be a particularly useful defense for range-based characters. Will not teleport through walls or closed doors.
Arcane Defenses: Passive. Increases resistance to arcane magics.


Tier III:

Summon: Active. Spell. When cast on a target, causes them to be teleported right next to caster. Doesn't work on bosses or other characters.
Short Circuit: Active. Spell. Cast on a single target. Caster loses half and target loses all mana, adjusted for Arcane resistance. (may not be very relevant, because they may not keep track of enemy mana. PvP uses would be neat-o.)
Blood Price: Passive. Enchant Weapon. Adds mana damage and inflicts a condition on target that causes any abilities that drain Mana to drain an equal amount of Health as well.
Absorb Magic: Passive. Enchants armor. Has a chance of absorbing spells cast at character, eliminating damage and restoring however much mana that skill cost.
Enhanced Evocation: Passive. Increases chances that any Weapon or Armor Enchantments will activate.


Tier IV:

Shift Stirke: Active. Melee. Quickly teleport next to an enemy, attack, then zips back to her original location. If hit, she's stuck where she's at.
Disruption: Active Spell. Sends out a shockwave that destroys any enemy spells, offensive or defensive, within the given radius. Does not affect friendly units (ie. use Dispel to get rid of negative effects).
Tiamat: Passive. Enchants weapon. Adds elemental damage of fire, cold and lightning to attacks. Enhanced by Burn, Jolt, and Frostbite. Only works if Spellbind is active.
Reflect: Passive. Enchants armor to have a chance of reflecting magics cast at character.
Efficient Evocation: Passive. Decreases mana costs incurred when Enchantment effects trigger.


Terra Firma: This tree focuses more on defense and fortitude. Attacks are based on strength more than speed. Uses Stone/Earth and Cold. "The mountain need not fear the storm." (Note: Earth elemental skills are only called that for conceptual reasons and cause physical damage, not an "earth elemental" damage type. That is, unless Blizzard adds that.)

Tier I:

Ethereal Anchor: Active. Missile attack. A successful attack can anchor the foe in place, unable to move, but can still attack. Doesn't work on bosses or other players.
Frostbite: Active. Enchants Weapon. Adds cold damage to attacks and chills targets. Enables additional Cold Enchantments
Immovability: Passive. Decreases the chance that any effect can cause the character to move against his will, ie. knockback effects.
Quenching the Flame: Passive. Increases damage done by Enchantments in this tree.


Tier II:

Stone Guardian: Active. Spell. Creates a floating fist of stone that randomly attacks nearby foes. Certain runes may add Knockback.
Rockform: Active. Enchants Armor. Increases Defense and Damage Reduction. Enables additional Stone Enchantment.
Project Cold: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Chills enemies within a given radius.
Inertia: Passive. Causes attacks to physically pack more force. Increases physical damage and with Missile attacks, increases the distance the missiles will travel.
Melee Mastery: Passive. Increase Damage, Accuracy, and Crit. % of Melee attacks.


Tier III:

Torque: Active. Melee or missile attack. Slower attack, but does much more damage. If missile, it travels faster (if engine supports that).
Stalagmite: Active. Spell. Summons a spike of solid rock from the earth at the desired location. Any enemies nearby take physical damage and pillar remains as an obstacle until destroyed.
Icicle: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Has a chance of causing a giant Icicle to fall on target, causing splash damage to nearby foes.
Attunement: Passive. Increases resistance to fire/ice/lightning.


Tier IV:

Anvil of the Earth: Melee attack. Crushing attack with cooldown time that does highly increased damage to target and nearby targets.
Ice Shield: Active. Spell. Creates a literal shield made of solid ice. If a shield is being used, it enhances it defenses and blocking. Without a shield, it floats near caster and confers double the blocking bonus that Ice Shield adds to a shield and can be used with 2-handed weapons.
Jagged Shards: Passive. Enchants Armor. Causes sharp rock protrusions to spring from armor, causing physical damage on melee attackers. Against missile attacks, has a chance of shattering the missile, causing no damage. Against attackers that have weapon Durability (ie. PvP), has an equal chance of reducing Durability of attackers melee weapon by one.
Earth Elemental: Passive. Activates if Frostbite and Rockform are both active. Transforms into Stone. Makes Earth and Ice skills do more damage, adds defense. Also, adds resistances to cold and lightning.



Arcane Warrior in DiabloWiki.

ORIGINAL:
Could probably think of a cooler name, but it would wind up being a confluence of many of the ideas people have been throwing around like Death Knight, Ranger, Battlemage, etc. He/she would be a highly magic augmented warrior that could focus equally on melee or missiles. His main skills are enchantments on his weapons and armor that add elemental or other magical properties. I'm even throwing around the idea of making some of them castable on allies. In D2 terms, it'd be a cross between a Pally and Zon, with some Sorc spillover. The weapon enchantments would work equally on melee or missiles, but could have certain benefits to one or the other. I was thinking that some (or all) Enchantments could operate on a "% to cast on strike", increasing with ability. There seems to be a clear hole in the existing classes regarding Fire skills, so this would be a good candidate to focus on. Whether the player could stack enchantments would be a balancing issue, but I think it'd be cool.

Weapon Enchantments: (Once cast, attacks automatically take on properties for duration.)
Flame Sabre: Converts physical damage to Fire. Works on Missiles too, maybe needs a better name. Could also have a lightning variant.
Fire Blast: On attack, explosive fire is dealt to neabry units (ala D2 Fireball or Explosive Arrows).
Flame spray: Melee, causes a spherical firewall centered on target. Missiles cause a trail of fire to form under arrows path.
Chain Static: Causes electrical damage to target that jumps to any units next to them, etc, etc, rippling through tightly packed enemies.
Nova Strike: On attack, causes a nova to launch from target. Especially nice with missiles: long range Nova. And don't get me started on hitting multiple targets... :evil:
or Flame Nova: An alternative to Nova strike. Or could have both!
Lightning Rod: When enemy is struck, a lightning bolt goes from character to target. Can trigger multiple bolts from one attack with missile Twitch or Ricochet.
Tiamat: Adds elemental damage of all 3 elements similar to Pally Vengeance, but lasts through the duration.
Channeling: Passively increases elemental damages. Could be broken into different skills per element.

Armor Enchantments: (Same as above.)
Fire Shield: Lifted from D&D as long as WotC doesn't come after me. :shhh: Deal fire damage to any attackers.
Fire Aura: Causes the ground around the character to burst into fire
Spark: Shoots a bolt of lightning at any attackers, even ranged.
Thunderclap: When an enemy attacks, has a chance of triggering a shockwave that knocks all foes back within a small radius, plus dealing damage.
Attune: Increases resistance to fire/ice/lightning. Passive.
Soul of Fire/Ice/Lightning: When cast, Absorb that element, but reduces other resistances.

Weapon skills(working name): (These are per attack skills, and in some cases, are just directly cast spells.)
Twitch: Essentially a Missile based Zeal.
Magic Arrow: Maybe an enhanced version of D2 Amazon's.
Ricochet: When a target is struck, the arrow jumps to the nearest target. Everytime a target is struck, the arrow keeps retargetting up to a skill based maximum or it misses one.
Torque: Slower attack rate, but missile travels faster (if engine supports that) and does much more damage.
Sweep: Spins once in a circle, striking any surrounding enemies within range. Enchantments can only be triggered once (maybe?).
Lunge: Attack and move forward in a short burst, knocking foes back a ways and following. Sort of a short burst Charge, but foe must be in melee range. Useful to break out when surrounded.
Ethereal Anchor: A successful attack, melee or missile, anchors the foe in place, unable to move, but can still attack. Doesn't work on bosses or other players.

Perhaps for this class, parhaps for another:
Shift Stirke: This is one of my babies here. :D He quickly teleports next to an enemy, attacks, then zips back to his original location. This could have abuse potential, but make it to where if hit, he's stuck where he's at. This might also be a good one for a Rogue style class instead.
Displace: On striking, teleport to another random position next to target. Should be a "skill used per attack" skill so it isn't abused (too much). As above, may be better for a different class.

Perhaps you could combine the Enchantments into one tree and add a new 3rd tree maybe? This class would satisfy a lot different "archetypes" in one. Another Melee class, a Missile class, a worthy Pally replacement, and open to any form of backstory.

This is something I've wanted to see since before I even heard D3 was in development. It's actually a re-adaption of a class I'd come up with for my own turn-based game that'll prolly never get done, and that was a re-adaption of an AD&D 2nd Ed. class I came up with about 8 years ago.

I figure a 5th class would be some kind of War Priest/Inquisitor/Exorcist (I mean, hey, SOMEONE has to cast Holy Bolt, right? :grin: ), or another physical character that's really out of the box, Rogue/Assassin style. It'd be a good fit for those last 2 skills.

Oh yeah. Hi, :newhere:.

LucianDK
09-06-2009, 10:22
If you check out the Wizard's skills, they already have a lot of short range possibilities to build as, effectively making them an arcane warrior.

Check out the Conjuring tree. http://www.diablowiki.net/Conjuring_Skill_Tree

I could easilly foresee it like, buff up with magic weapon, mirror images and an armor spell, then wading in and slashing your foes with spectral blades and autoattacks. And when everyone is balled up around you, let loose with pbaoe spells.

jakotaco
10-06-2009, 01:05
Yeah, when I heard the name I thought of the many melee skills given to the wizard. However reading the skill descriptions it seems to be quite different. Elemental Warrior would probably be more correct as you seem to be using pretty much every element but arcane. :)

I guess it took you some time (but it is rather fun to come up with ideas like this, I've done it a few times as well). Well written, not often someone's first post has a layout this easy to follow. Welcome :wave:

Technomancer
10-06-2009, 10:17
Thanks! Yeah, I kinda spaced the Wizard's Conjuring tree, been a while since I looked through that stuff. It really is an elemental warrior, and it does differ from that part of Wizard because it's coming from the other angle. With the proper skills like armor enchantments, this guy could readily stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the Barb on the front lines.

Yeah, I've come up with all kinds of classes and skills and stuff over the years. I've got pages (and pages) of skills, skill systems, character systems, classes, etc. Haha! When I was in Jr. High, I tried (and I REALLY tried) to come up with my own entire D&D world... *shivers*

I've played D2 online since 1.09 and I've lurked on here off and on. I'd be a notorious lurker throughout the Internet... if only anyone knew... :D

LucianDK
10-06-2009, 11:52
Neat concept yes, but it is really too close to what the Wizard is offering to be a self sufficient class.

Chorkstain
10-06-2009, 14:56
I agree with the above. There's too much of a focus on area damage for this character to be different. The Amazon in Diablo 2 was a failure since she was doing the same thing as a Sorceress, we don't need a repeat!

NASE
10-06-2009, 15:42
I bag you pardon? the amazons is one of the best characters in diablo II. It may have some similarities with a sorcerer yet it offers combination with very different skills that make her have a very unique feel.
And once they fix the fend bug, things will only get better.

KnS
10-06-2009, 17:26
Seems epicly overpowered haha... Having Fire, Ice and lightning in 1 tree?
That seems a bit easy for hell...
But i do love the idea of a Pally/Zon mix because they were my 2 fav classes in D2

PahaLukki
11-06-2009, 00:30
Seems epicly overpowered haha... Having Fire, Ice and lightning in 1 tree?
That seems a bit easy for hell...
But i do love the idea of a Pally/Zon mix because they were my 2 fav classes in D2

Do keep in mind the game will have totally different balance than D2. Do we even know for sure there will be immunes as much for the above to be unbalancing? Or that the prevailing damage types are fire, ice and lightning? For example, what damage type is Disintegrate?

I kind of like the idea as it reminds me of my current clvl 29 warrior on D1. Though he casts direct damage spells like chain lighting and fireball, but also utility like teleport and healing. I haven't tried telekilling yet as I just acquired teleport. On the tactical side is fire wall which works very well in D1 for a melee warrior. Both to surround yourself in flames to keep melee mobs surrounding you take damage, or to paint ranged attackers in flames and just watch them die. Fire wall is also excellent to aid in retreating. The AI is also careful in entering the flames so sometimes fire wall is a good crowd restraint. Golems can work as decoy, though I haven't acquired that yet. And you can throw guardians in rooms full of nasty monsters like black deaths.

However what works in D1 wouldn't necessarily work in a skill point system. In D1 you can be a secondary caster warrior without losing any melee ability. Most likely in a skill-point system you will be forced to focus on some melee skill like zeal or a passive skill, which takes you away from casting, and thus you will end up having a character that is always either pure melee-based or pure casting-based. Or do you see hammerdins or FoH paladins ever go melee? Or see zealers cast hammers or FoH to any effect? That's right...

But somehow I get the feeling that Blizzard has already made their decision on the remaining classes, and are just holding out that info..

Drakk
11-06-2009, 00:32
Great post, love the idea of an elemental warrior. The problem with trying to predict the future "warrior" class is that every class will have multiple Area of Effect skills. This makes me think that if there is a warrior-type class it will have to have a focus on atleast one element in order to get the AoE skills. You've provided some really good ideas, so many in fact that I think you could pull the remaining two classes out of this idea. An archer and warrior, both with different types of elemental skills for the AoE.

Technomancer
11-06-2009, 10:51
Heh, yeah, it's a bit overpowered... :strong: I originally made it to be a sort of "one-man death-machine". Hmm, I mentioned in the intro that fire could be a good focus, maybe focus the skills more on fire with... lightning as a secondary? I actually felt awkward when trying to squeeze in ice skills anyways. At that rate though, Elemental Warrior might not be the most accurate fit anymore, but I'd want a better name than that anyway!

I changed it up a bit. I renamed it, ditched most of the ice skills, added 3 skills: 'Flame Nova', 'Spark', and 'Torque', and I bailed on Pierce since Ricochet is more innovative and overlaps in usefulness.

I would really like to see immunities done away with, at least for the most part. In D2 they don't really make sense. A Fallen is immune to Fire, but BIG D isn't? What? Seriously?! For real?!?! WTF!!! :banghead:

And yeah, I'm sure that at the very least, the 4th character is already solidly decided, and the 5th prolly isn't far behind. There's always the destined expansion pack. ... Actually, I'd be surprised if there aren't at least 2 xpacs. That's what they're doing with SC2 and their more recent games. 9-10 classes anyone? :alright:

LaZeR
12-06-2009, 14:00
I REALLY like this idea.
However, your Weapon&Shield Enchantments trees feels too much of a passive D2 tree, which doesn't really fit D3 trees (that are based more on the idea of combining passive&active spells of all kinds).

IMO, you should keep the Elemental Warrior name- throw in Ice skills and even some Poison skills- and remake your trees to:
Weapon Tree - Which will include your Weapon Echantments Tree Skills and some of your melee-weapon-based skills from the Weapon Tree like Twitch and Sweep
Shield Tree- Which will include your Shield Enchantments Tree Skills and some of your Weapon Tree skills that will work for as shield-attacks like Lunge
Bow Tree- Which will include Bow skills from your Weapon Tree Skills, like Magic Arrow and Ricochet.

As for Shift-Strike and Displace, which I think are awesome, you can scatter them in any Tree you want to.

I think this fits more of D3 idea for having a more varied Trees. Plus, this solves both the Range and the Shield-User char suggestions.

~ Just realised how much I wrote, so just to make things clear- I'm not trying to re-make you char ^^ ~

Technomancer
13-06-2009, 09:58
Wow! I feel humbled at having this guy/gal put in the Wiki!:party: Pretty sweet for a board noob!

I do see what you're talking about the layout not entirely meshing with the D3 skill tree approach. I'm obviously more fluent in the D2 skill trees, and it naturally fell in that way. I had thought about splitting the melee and missile skills into separate trees, but I was really into the idea of having universal weapon enchantments where attack type is irrelevant. I thought that would add an element of exploration, where some enchantments would operate better/more interestingly under one attack form or another, and also allow full customization to a dedicated melee or missile character. The shield tree makes sense, but might need a few more 'activities'. Regardless, there is a major shortage of passives... well if you consider the enchantments active. I suppose they are somewhere in between. And if I were to break them up like that, I would probably call them Sword, Bow, and Armor skills, I always imagined this ones primary melee weapon as a sword. I may consider going that route... Actually, I think reclassifying Armor Enchantments as just Armor Skills would be a good idea anyways.

I wonder if there will be an Earth element? I was wondering about earth based skills, but really, they either would be truly defensive, or the damage would be considered physical anyways. I'd originally put ice skills in, but I couldn't really think of anything super-neat, and it felt kinda forced, so I've considered taking it out or making it more minor. I was also afraid of making too many 'castable' skills, cause I felt like it would play to much like a caster. I suppose I could make a lot/all of the enchantments 'use skill per attack', but it takes some of the point out of it and again makes it something more of a caster.

Hmm, I need to think on it a bit.
~Input is always welcome!~:thumbup:

LaZeR
13-06-2009, 23:31
Well, I've found that making inputs point by point is easier to read so:

1. I agree with Sword, Shield and Bow Trees. I even sounds cool- Like a Master of Combat. However, Sword is just too limiting. I want people to have the option of using Hammer or Mace, so Weapon is more varied.

2. I actually do consider the Enchantment as Passives, even if the need a bit of work to become a real Passive. But Passives are without question the easiest skills to make- Enchance dmg, speed, number of charges etc. No real problem.

3. I'm actually against splitting Melee and Missle. That's IMO is against D3 concept. I think Shield and Weapon should have some sort of Missle skills, as well as Bow Tree should have melee ones (maybe like shooting an arrow down to the ground which explodes on impact?).

4. I see the fear of him being too much of a Caster. But I must say I don't agree. If Enchantments will be more "buffed" like D2 Enchant and his Active Skills will focus on melee or missle without magic/elemental side (maybe have the elemental aspect come from Passives?), it would be far from your typical Caster.

5. I see what you were trying to get with the Enchantments, but as I said, having a tree of them is too D2. Maybe not however (: It doesn't matter anyway since It's just an idea in a forum ^^

6. I think all the Elements has been shown already. But this can easily change.

I actually think this can be an AMAZING character. And Congratz on making it into the Wiki (=

lunarleif
14-06-2009, 02:29
The whole idea sounds cool. What I don't understand is that you are drawing from already existing skills. It would be nice if you made skills up and innovated. Exception: Teleportation skills.

Technomancer
17-06-2009, 10:50
I made a pretty massive overhaul on the Arcane Warrior, and decided to keep that name. It's pretty much a fully fleshed out class now. I re-edited my original post (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=728784), but left the original idea in quotes at the bottom.

Hope everyone likes it, I took it into a more specific direction and I added a story. I feel like I got a decent grasp of the D3 skill tree setup and implemented it. Thanks for helping me think outside my box everyone, particularly you LaZeR!

LaZeR
17-06-2009, 19:56
You're welcome (:
I haven't been able to read your update properly yet, but two comments:

1. Too many Actives. What I actually like about D3 is that there are few active spells in each tree (1,2,3,2 usually) that defines the char and the tree. So I think you need to narrow the list so you really get what's your char is about and increase that feeling by passives that relate to the Tree theme.

2. Oddly enough, as time passes I find myself loving your old build more and more. I don't know why, but the "1 Tree for boosting damage, 1 Tree for boosting defense and 1 Tree to execute them all" concpet sounds brilliant. Maybe not D3-like, but still, it can be made into D3 if you make Enchantments Active and throw in some Passives skills.

I'll get back to you when I finish reading the whole post.

Technomancer
19-06-2009, 07:09
I thought you considered the Enchantments to be passive?! lol!

I think I know what you mean about the old build. I went in a bit of a different direction than I originally intended. My original thinking was more of a European Elemental Knight/Ranger/Wreckingball. My non-Diablo version was a mage-slayer class, and I had avoided that cause of the Assassin's role, but I just decided to go there anyways. I may post another variant and try to recapture the original post's idea and scrap the mage-slayer stuff. I need to get back to wasting time other ways though. This class stuff has really cut into my gaming time! :D

Oh well, this stuff is fun too!

lunarleif
19-06-2009, 19:59
Twitch: Missile. Essentially a Missile based Zeal
Lunge: Melee. Attack and move forward in a short burst, knocking foes back a ways and following. Sort of a short burst Charge, but foe must be in melee range. Useful to break out when surrounded.
Chain Static: Enchants Weapon. Causes electrical damage to target that jumps to any units next to them, etc, etc, rippling through tightly packed enemies.
Flame Sabres: Spell. Creates floating swords made of fire that seek targets and deal fire damage. Can be attacked and destroyed.

This is all from steel and fire tier. I find all of these skills duplicates or copies of other games and or things that don't belong in Diablo.
Twitch is zeal, which is from Diablo 2, and I though that Blizzard wasn't bringing anything back, and following that theme would be a good idea. Also, why not make it better and more innovative?
Lunge I think in part has already been taken by the Barbarian as one of his skills almost sounds perfectly like that :wink:.
Chain static sounds like sorcerer's chain lightning and wizard's electrocute.
Finally, flame sabres is a DnD spell, and doesn't really have the Diablo goth affect to it. Also, one of the assassin's skills from Diablo 2 acts just like it, without the fire or heat seeking.

LaZeR
19-06-2009, 21:55
Blizzard isn't bringing anything back?
What about Whirlwhind, Meteor and, well, the Barb itself?

Lunge is not like Furios Charge. Furios Charge goes THROUGH enemies, while Lunge is supposed to knockback foe.
Chain Static IS a melee chain lightning but you won't succeed in making all the skills totally different from D2. Hell, you can say half of D3 skills so far are remix of D2 skills..

NASE
20-06-2009, 18:08
The barbarian is the only character that will comeback.

And besides that, there are a few icons that simply have to be in the game. Whirlwind, and blizzard are some examples.

And some skills that simply fit a certain character to good, meteor and teleport.


Yet besides those, blizzard is going to try and come up with new and interesting skills. And frankly, zeal isn't an icon and isn't a skill that is mandatory for a character.


P.S. And we have a mele chain lightning in diablo II. the amazons lighting strike, so bringing that back in the same forms seems like a bad idea.

Technomancer
20-06-2009, 22:39
This is all from steel and fire tier. I find all of these skills duplicates or copies of other games and or things that don't belong in Diablo.
Twitch is zeal, which is from Diablo 2, and I though that Blizzard wasn't bringing anything back, and following that theme would be a good idea. Also, why not make it better and more innovative?
Lunge I think in part has already been taken by the Barbarian as one of his skills almost sounds perfectly like that :wink:.
Chain static sounds like sorcerer's chain lightning and wizard's electrocute.
Finally, flame sabres is a DnD spell, and doesn't really have the Diablo goth affect to it. Also, one of the assassin's skills from Diablo 2 acts just like it, without the fire or heat seeking.

Seriously?! I came up with over 50 skills and these 4 are deal-breakers? Hmm.

First of all, I think it's good to have a touch of carry over.
I said in my original post that Twitch was a missile-based Zeal. Would it be better and more iconic if I said it was a fixed # Strafe?
Lunge is basically a knockback attack where the attacker moves to the space previously occupied by the target. Copy of what?
Chain Static isn't Electricute, Chain Lightning or the zon equiv., it only attacks creatures basically touching each other and has no min or max on the number of targets, it keeps jumping to all touching targets in one continuous ripple, so it's different from all the skills mentioned.
And Flames Sabres? Is that 3rd Ed.? I never played any versions past 2nd Ed., thought it went too 'munchkin'y. I never heard of it regardless, I was just thinking basically elemental minions. Would renaming it be in order?

lunarleif
21-06-2009, 06:22
Seriously?! I came up with over 50 skills and these 4 are deal-breakers? Hmm.
If you're going to spend that much time on it, might as well make it perfect. I also am a very harsh critic on other's work :thumbup:
I guess, that yes you have come up with an awesome character, but here are a couple of things I might point out. The better someone does, the harder they try to find something wrong with it since they expect you to be above that those are so messed up.
Lunge is basically a knockback attack where the attacker moves to the space previously occupied by the target. Copy of what?
Barbarian's furious charge :scratchchin:
Chain Static isn't Electricute, Chain Lightning or the zon equiv., it only attacks creatures basically touching each other and has no min or max on the number of targets, it keeps jumping to all touching targets in one continuous ripple, so it's different from all the skills mentioned.
Witch doctor's horrify uses almost same jumping principle. Wizard's electrocute is only like it on the very basic scale similar.
And Flames Sabres? Is that 3rd Ed.? I never played any versions past 2nd Ed., thought it went too 'munchkin'y. I never heard of it regardless, I was just thinking basically elemental minions. Would renaming it be in order?
Assassin's blade sentinel. The spell is similar to a dungeons and dragons one almost exactly except that their is no flames. Way to perfectly the same. Renaming it yes, would help, though some different abilities like making it able to fire ranged projectiles and or making them stationary would make much more sense to avoid being the same.
I said in my original post that Twitch was a missile-based Zeal. Would it be better and more iconic if I said it was a fixed # Strafe?
First, needs a better name. Second, the concept is like firing a missile and damaging anything next to it right? I never played a paladin, I was one of the necromantic types. Third, that sounds like a nova only without copying the nova style and avoiding many limitations that come along with it:thumbup: Therefore I conclude that I just thought the name was dumb and that it was drawing from the paladin a little to directly. Also, if it's supposed to be an elemental character, why in the world are they dealing with arcane magic which sounds similar to this? Perhaps you could combine the flame sabers with this, making a spell that you shoot which summons a circle of flame sabers that attack things either as stationary objects, heat seeking ones, or ranged attackers of flame. Along the principle of flame would be that as the sword shot flame, it would come from the very essence of the sword so that proportionately, the sword would consume itself with its attacks.

I have no clue if any of my examples were any good, so it would be nice if correction were provided if any is needed. I think this is my 18th post.

lunarleif
21-06-2009, 06:25
Blizzard isn't bringing anything back?
What about Whirlwhind, Meteor and, well, the Barb itself?
Exception, not rule. Blizzard said they weren't bringing anything else back now did they?

Technomancer
21-06-2009, 08:54
I think this is my 18th post.
It was your 19th post, get it right!! :crazyeyes:

Sorry if I sounded a little short earlier, this is only my ... 14th?... post? :D

I think you might be trying a little too hard. I think Blizz meant they weren't bringing any more 'classes' back. Let see:

Twitch: It is just a means to fire multiple missiles in short succession. It doesn't damage enemies next to target, if that's what you thought. I think the name is cute, so you're veto'd! :girly:
Chain Static: Horrify? That doesn't behave even remotely that way. It's just a fear aura. And it isn't anything like Electrocute either. It's actually more like Static Residue, but a one shot ripple effect similar to that. This is most effective on tightly packed enemies, like in herds, whereas on spread out enemies, it'd only hit one and be done. It plays completely different to anything anyone's compared it too.
Flame Sabres: So there's actually nothing called that? You know, there's nothing wrong with borrowing good ideas. Apparently, it does have it's uniqueness, and besides, Blizz is trying to make things a little more D&D. Magic Missile?! I think destroying it just to remove some vague similarity is overkill. If it fired projectiles, how would that not be an Sin trap? The inspiration for it was those blue swords that pop out of tombs in D2 act2. Thought it'd make a cool skill to use, just make it better.
Lunge: Well, 1.) it can only be used on foes in melee range, whereas Furious Charge attacks foes at a distance, and 2.) there's no splash damage. Besides, isn't Furious Charge a rip-off of Charge? Where's the criticism of that?

Oh, and just to cut you off, Stone Guardian is a rock version of a Bigby's Hand spell. That was intentional, and it's staying! :smug:

LaZeR
21-06-2009, 12:06
Well, let's go point by point.

1. I know the Barb is the only returning char, it is still and example of re-using stuff from older games.

2. Lunge is the only skill I going to defend since it's nothing like Furious Charge which "slices" through enemie, while Lunge knocks them back (either by 1 bash or by holding them while you're running, I didn't get).
Furious charge is a Fury skill which delivers damage. Lunge is more of a panic skills.

3. Should I start naming skills from D3 we know the resembles skills from previous games?

lunarleif
21-06-2009, 19:04
It was your 19th post, get it right!!
Well, it was my 18th except each time you add a post, it updates.
Chain Static: Horrify? That doesn't behave even remotely that way. It's just a fear aura. And it isn't anything like Electrocute either. It's actually more like Static Residue, but a one shot ripple effect similar to that. This is most effective on tightly packed enemies, like in herds, whereas on spread out enemies, it'd only hit one and be done. It plays completely different to anything anyone's compared it too.
Sorry, that's seriously why I shouldn't write posts when it's late at night:whistling:
Anyway, I meant locust swarm from witch doctor. I need to refresh myself with all Diablo 3 matters.
Twitch: It is just a means to fire multiple missiles in short succession. It doesn't damage enemies next to target, if that's what you thought. I think the name is cute, so you're veto'd!
Apparently... (veto'd). Anyway, that sounds like the wizard's charged bolt, but is different enough to be acceptable. Still needs a better name since twitch in games referred to twitch games.
Twitch gameplay is a type of computer or video gameplay that tests a player's reaction time and precision. Action games such as first-person shooters are typically composed of twitch gameplay.

Finally, flame sabers needs a better name. Dungeons and Dragons is a new imaginary world where anything can happen, in Diablo it's based off of goth.

lunarleif
21-06-2009, 19:05
Well, let's go point by point.
3. Should I start naming skills from D3 we know the resembles skills from previous games?

Join the party!

LaZeR
21-06-2009, 21:29
I will:
Barb
Battle Cry- Shout
Furious Charge- Paladin's Charge the goes through people.
Frenzy- Well, Frenzy...
Leap Attack- Leap-Leap attack.
Whirlwind- Whirlwind.

Wizard
Magic Missile- Every bolt in D2 with different type of element in it.
Teleport- Teleport.
Charged Bolt- Charged bolt
Storm Armor- that lightning sorc shield in D2
Frost Nova- Frost nova
Electrocute- Chain lightning
Ray of Frost- Druid's Arctic Blast
Tornado- Druid's Twister
Blizzard- Blizzard
Stone Skin- Bone Armor
Mirrior Image- Assa's and Ama's duplicate skills
Magic Weapon- Sorc's Enchant
Meteor Storm- Druid's Armageddon

WD
Horrify- Necros' Terror
Wall of Zombies- damaging Bone Wall
Mass Confusion- Necro's Confuse
Fire Bats- Sorc's Inferno

lunarleif
22-06-2009, 00:58
Way to go! What about the "archivist"?

Technomancer
22-06-2009, 06:16
Way to go! What about the "archivist"?
Silly, that don't count! That's a fake class, it's a trick question! :girly:

Hehe, you know, the more I think about Lunge, the more I feel like it's just a lame, weak Charge knockoff. And I don't know what about firing multiple arrows quickly (twang*twang*twang*twang!!), one after the other, sounds like Charged Bolt.

Oh, and Diablo isn't based on goth. That misunderstanding is why so many people are bugged by a Witch Doctor and an Asian Girl. Nothing Gothic there. If anything, it's a hybrid Eurasian backdrop. Besides, if it was firmly rooted in one setting, it would stifle creativity and innovation, which would make your stance on not doing anything that anyone else has ever thought of nearly impossible. Also, this particular build is from the more Middle-Eastern part of the game, and Flame Sabres does not sound out of place there. Just be glad I'm not summoning a Djinn!! :smug: ...or I could banish foes to the City of Brass... :scratchchin:

Pointing out similarities to other D3 skills is useful, but you know, as far as nitpicking names, I'm not gonna defend my name choices beyond this, cause they're mine. If it bugs you that much, make you're own class or variant that uses the skill and call it whatever you want. That's what innovation is all about, after all. But, if you spend all your time trying to do nothing that anyone else has ever even remotely thought of before, you'll never do anything. It's all been done to some degree whether you realize it or not. All you can do is try to do it better how YOU see fit. </Deckard Cain speech>

(Edit) I just looked up Locust Swarm, and I do see the similarity, but Chain Static is different enough. It's doesn't just hit one foe, then the next, then the next. It hits one foe, then ALL foes next to it, then ALL foes next to them, in quick succession, with no limit. Awesome for giant herds.

Technomancer
22-06-2009, 10:29
Well, I did a new refinement of the Arcane Warrior in the first post. I added more passives and made most Enchantments passive enhancements of basic Enchantments. In each tree, Tier I has a master Weapon Enchantment (2 in Steel & Fire), and Tier II has a master Armor Enchantment. Additional Enchantments are simply augmentation of those skills. The master skills are Burn, Jolt, Frostbite, and Spellbind for weapons and Flame Armor, Rockform, and Mystic Fortress for armor.

I also did a deal of rearrangement and now the layout matches the D3 skill spread fairly well (check out LaZeR's research (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=730014)), and I'm actually happier with the new Enchantment system. I'm pushing the max on Active skills still, but oh well!

Oh yeah, I took out Lunge and Ice Prison cause I just wasn't feeling them. :D I slightly changed a few other skills too.

lunarleif
22-06-2009, 17:31
So the arcane warriors are a class near extinction, only 2 characters? Also, if they were taught by an assassin, where are the traps combined with the elemental fury of the Vizjerei?
Flame Spray: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Melee, causes a spherical firewall centered on target. Missiles cause a trail of fire to form under arrows path.
Would this include magic as well? (Do flame sabers have a trail of fire form under them from this?) For that matter, does the skill tree affect magic projectiles at all?
Fire Elemental: Passive. Activates if Burn or Jolt and Flame Armor are active. Transforms into a Fire Elemental, dealing extra fire and increasing Fire and Lightning damage. Also, absorbs fire damage.
What turns into a fire elemental?
I love displace! To low in the tier in my opinion.
Uh, skip and displace are a little to similar, the only difference is tier and one is passive and the other isn't.
Shift strike says If hit, she's stuck where she's at.
Um^2, are you saying that everyone is a she? Or are you referring to a boat, house, car, or other inanimate object?
Stone fist also isn't like the DnD spell since it won't just be a floating hand.
Torque: Active. Melee or missile attack. Slower attack, but does much more damage. If missile, it travels faster (if engine supports that).
Wouldn't it go slower if it was a missile?
What about twitch, did you read the quote?

Technomancer
23-06-2009, 02:10
Lemme see... Um yeah, that's kinda the story I came up with, I wouldn't read it as gospel though since they don't know what happened to some of the rest of their kind. The assassin thing is kinda loose and I figured since they use magic now, there's no need for traps. Just my take, I do see exception with it though. Too, I just referred to it as 'she' because I was thinking of the first introduction to the class as a female (like the Wizard), cause I think it'd be cool and Boqu's artwork on the wiki entry is a female and is killer! :D

Flame Spray on missiles only effects missile weapons like arrows or throwing axes, not magic.

YOU turn into the Fire Elemental! :D I thought about a summoning spell originally, but that'd be Fire Golem. No, you basically burst into flames and get bonuses from it.

Yeah, I wanted multiple teleporting skills. Skip transports you to a random location on the screen (or within a skill based range) when you're attacked, Displace is an attack that moves you around enemy. I think they're pretty different, I see what you mean though. Maybe Displace should have some defensive bonus since that's kinda the point?

With Torque, on missiles, the idea is that you're pulling back harder and farther then letting loose, giving it more speed and force. I thought about having a risk of losing durability, but I HATED that on Zons, so nope. :D

On Twitch, the idea behind your quote was actually something of the inspiration behind naming it that! From the character's perspective, it makes a good deal of sense, I think.

lunarleif
23-06-2009, 02:55
The assassin thing is kinda loose and I figured since they use magic now, there's no need for traps.
That's like taking a sorcerer and barbarian and combining them and a barbarian who can deal elemental attacks and elemental passives and telepoting...
Though it is a good intro. :)

Technomancer
23-06-2009, 10:25
That's like taking a sorcerer and barbarian and combining them and a barbarian who can deal elemental attacks and elemental passives and telepoting...
EXACTLY!! LOL! Hehe, I'm thinking about a different variant, more Western based I may make another thread for sometime. I think I'll have a better, more consistent story too. I'm actually starting with the story this time and then I'm gonna shape the skills around that. This one was the other way around. May be a while though, I'm thinking about installing D1 and playing through that until I can't stand having to click for every single swing anymore. Or until the ladder resets...

lunarleif
23-06-2009, 17:13
For what? The story etc, I mean.

Technomancer
24-06-2009, 09:42
Mmm, I'm not sure what you're asking. Do you mean what would the story and stuff I'm talking about be in regards to? It'd be for a different variant of this class that I'm toying around with that I may post later, if that answers your question. I think I've got the story pretty much done.

lunarleif
24-06-2009, 17:15
What I meant with combining the barbarian and sorceress was that then the combination wouldn't be able to cast offensive ranged spells.

Technomancer
25-06-2009, 01:53
Oh, I see. Your question wasn't very clear. You know, the story was somewhat thrown together. I thought it was good and basically met certain elements I wanted to see, like mage-slayer skills, so I kept it. Too, I never liked Assassin abilities that much, but they were the "mage-slayers" of Sanctuary, so it would have been redundant to try and come up with something completely unrelated to them. I tried to focus on the spirit of other skills of theirs besides traps because, well, they don't fit the character and I never liked traps. I could insert some reason into the story as to why they don't use traps anymore, but I figure it's able to be assumed. Traps were a means to use magic without using magic. Since they use magic now, what's the point?

Besides, I think the Pax Arcanna tree fulfills the spirit of the Assassin's purpose better than anything in the original class ever did.

lunarleif
25-06-2009, 02:57
so take some, leave some. That also works to keep it from being a complete semi-copy of the assassin.

lunarleif
26-06-2009, 01:07
Round two of analyzing your skills:thumbup:
You also have skills that don't affect other players or bosses, I think that they should affect everyone since they're balanced enough, except the actual character casting, of course.
Lightning Spirit: Passive. Increase attack speed and accuracy.
The name could be better. Lightning is being used to much to describe things. Maybe electric spirit?
Channeling the flame
Needs better name. Could be higher tier.
Flame Spray: Passive. Enchants Weapon. Melee, causes a spherical firewall centered on target. Missiles cause a trail of fire to form under arrows path.
That sounds like an overpowered or underpowered skill since people would enable it fire a whole bunch of arrows and you have a massive area covered in fire. Furthermore, would it require mana?
Conflageration sounds like the Sorcerer's trail of flame thing. How do you deactivate as it's a passive, if it uses mana?


spellbinding should probably be higher tier?
Can you turn skip off or on?
Short circuit should cause them to lose more mana than you...
You have skills that disrupt spells, disruption, dispel, etc, they should have a chance to succeed.

quenching the flame should be higher up.
Inertia could also affect missiles so they go further...

Technomancer
26-06-2009, 03:43
Omg, you're killing me over here!! lol

I think those skills that don't effect bosses and players could be too easily abused on them. Too, bosses should have too much power to be forcibly moved or locked in place.
I thought I said I wasn't gonna argue names anymore. :D
Channeling the flame was originally higher, but it looked like similar passives in established classes were lower, so I changed it. I may be wrong, it was like 5 a.m. :D
I think I meant for Flame spray to be "chance on attack", but forgot. I should prolly change it. If it was triggerable, it would consume mana, currently it doesn't.
Conflageration IS similar to the sorc spell, somewhat intentionally. I never thought about turning it off, good catch! I was originally thinking it would just be a constant bonus to Flame Armor that wouldn't consume mana, but that could get annoying. I could make it "chance on being hit" and last for a certain period. I think it should still be free of cost though.
Spellbind is meant as a base skill for that tree, so it needs to be low tier to provide room for enhancements.
Mmm, actually, you can't turn skip off. If you don't want it, don't invest in it I guess. I suppose I could make it a seperate active skill that would last for xxx seconds.
The point of Short Circuit is to strip mages of their power while you've still got your sword or bow to slaughter them in their weakness. It's not meant to be spammable. Anyways, if D3 doesn't keep track of monster's mana, this skill would be mostly irrelevant and removed.
I see your point on Disruption, but for Dispel, that should be automatic I think. Too, Disruption only affects foes, I should have made that more clear. Friendly offense and defense magics are unaffected.
Quenching the Flame, same as Channeling the Flame.
That's a good point on Inertia, I think I'll add that!

...whew...! :D

lunarleif
26-06-2009, 23:56
...whew...! :D Am I stressing you?
You won't argue names, yeah I heard you. I'm stubborn :crazyeyes: :banghead:
(Why won't the wall break?)
Skip sounds spam able since you can undo skill point investments, put some skill points in it for a certain area, then take them out since it would only get annoying in the rest.
You noted that some should be to powerful so that they're immune to some? I think if it can't affect the bosses, at least let it affect the players?

Technomancer
27-06-2009, 00:55
YEAH, YOU'RE STRESSING ME!! :banghead::banghead::banghead: :dopey:

Hehe, anyways, I think Summon and Ethereal Anchor could really mess up the cat-and-mouse of PvP, I think it would be bad. With bosses, Summon is redundant, cause they want to get close to you anyways, and Ethereal Anchor could make them too easy. They shouldn't be able to be kept at a safe distance, they should be an unstoppable horror bearing down upon you!! :D

lunarleif
27-06-2009, 03:45
I think if it can't affect the bosses...
I said that it shouldn't affect bosses there... These days, with teleport, Diablo 2 isn't really cat and mouse... Enigma messed that up. :(
I think that Etheral anchor would be okay, since necromancer's bone prison is almost same thing. Summon would be a bit annoying for pvp.
What about short circuit, how would that affect pvp. It would make a overpowered character I guess to use disruption, summon, short circuit, and then kick them hard. :( Way to spammable. Remove summon and you just use shift strike into an attack, get stuck, disruption, short circuit, and then kick them hard. :( Harder though, since you have to get hit... Or displace, you forgot the shift click ability that may be in Diablo 3. With that, you automatically get teleported to an opponent's side :) for the players, :nono: for the :( enemies.

Technomancer
01-07-2009, 10:00
Updated OP again:

Channeling/Quenching the Flame: Updated desc, kept them in Tier I cause of similar skills in Barb/Wiz.
Flame Spray: Made 'chance to cast' and got rid of fire trail under arrow, could be annoying.
Conflageration: Made 'chance to cast' and added duration.
Displace: Added a temporary defense boost and 3 sec cooldown.
Skip: Added 'Will not teleport through walls or closed doors.' to desc.
Short Circuit: Nerfed it a bit, changed to caster loses half mana, and target loses all mana adjusted for Arcane resistance.
Disruption: Added clarification that it only affects enemy magics.
Inertia: Added that this will cause missiles to travel farther.

I think that's all, I wrote this after.

@lunarleif: I think I nerfed some of your pvp concerns. There were some pretty nasty combos in there ;). On Displace, you can only trigger it if you hit an enemy in Melee, so you couldn't get warped to an opponent from a distance, if that's what you were talking about. I left Disruption, cause I think it thematically fits so well as to the character's purpose.

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 10:14
Much better, though you didn't change much of the spam. What about summon and shift strike?

Technomancer
01-07-2009, 10:34
Summon? That doesn't affect other players! There's no pvp issue there. Earlier, it sounded like you were trying to get me to make it affect players, but I never did.
Shift Strike? Well, I guess it's just awesome! I mean, Barb has Furious Charge that's basically instant hit from a distance, and Wizard has... ranged death everything. I don't really see the imbalance.

lunarleif
01-07-2009, 16:02
Against witch doctor, can you use summon on his "pets"? Can you use it on mercenaries?

Technomancer
02-07-2009, 02:45
Hmm, maybe not mercs, but pets, yeah, but I don't think that would be such a hot idea with him being able to blow them up and such...

lunarleif
02-07-2009, 04:18
Summon them before he can blow them up, kill them since they are semi-weak and then the Witch doctor looses his support :D