wizard out of place in diablo universe? [Archive]

fromtheshadow

07-06-2009, 21:59

tomhyde

07-06-2009, 22:51

Maybe its me but I always thought the paladin in D2 looked black.

I dont see any issue with having some ethinc diversity in D3

hubb

07-06-2009, 23:25

rofl

I do hope you're kidding...

Knight_Wolf

08-06-2009, 00:03

I don't want to make this a big deal, i just felt that the wizard class really doesn't seem to fit into the Diablo atmosphere. Diablo did not have Asian people in it, it was mostly a middle ages theme fantasy world were people were mostly european or middle eastern looking as the gothic atmosphere pretty much deals with european medieval period with fantasy fair.

the addition of the Asiatic feature wizard messes this up, i don't really want asian themed stuff in diablo cause that's just not what it is.
i m ok with the witch doctor cause he's dark and spooky enough, even though he doesn’t fit entirely in the gothic setting but the wizard is a no.

thankfully they have not made the wizard a cute looking asian gal which would have been a mess.

All that you said tells me you know nothing about Diablo world at all .. you just hate asian themed stuff or maybe a case of asian-phobia or anime-phobia (where everything asian = anime = cute girls in bunny suits = yuk!!! ) ... and whatever cause you those issues has nothing to do with what's going to be in D3.

D1 had an African mage
D2 had a Middle Eastern sorceress and a dark skinned paladin

Sanctuary is already bolstering with racial diversity .. there is no logical reason to exclude Asian themes from it whatsoever (unless you have something against it).

And before you play the Gothic card (which makes no sense either) i doubt you even know what Gothic means or where it originated from ... either way ... a Middle Ages Themed game can have Asians, Middle Easterners and people of any race because they all existed during them middle ages period .. it's not like middle ages were in Europe alone XD

So i see no problem in including Asian themed characters or culture (or from any culture) .. D3 team is aiming for diversity and the world of sanctuary has more than enough space to include many races and cultures ... a monotone world with one theme or culture is damn boring and monotonous.

i just feel the charactors were more serious looking when they were only european or middle eastern looking.

Sorry .. that's total nonsense .. have ever seen an Asian in real life ... go watch some WW2 movies or something ... japanese soldiers and officers looked and acted pretty damn serious to me (if not too serious)

fromtheshadow

08-06-2009, 04:20

i wasn't expecting many of you to agree with me, and i don't mean to say everything asian is not serious or good! i like lots of asian stuff and i think some of them are great people.

but i still don't see the need to diversify diablo series. seems to me they are really doing this to just satisfy their asian audience, not cause it fits into the lore.
diablo series is indeed gothic themed, in that it is a dark medieval theme fantasy game. and yes i do know what gothic means!
and the reason gothic themes don't have asians is that europeans were not exposed to east asians in this period, there was little contact with east asia, while there was lots of contact with islamic nations, and thats why you had middle eastern looking people and middle eastern themed places in the previous games, most notably: Deckard Cain, paladin and the sorceress.

blacks are okay in the game cause there were a few black guys in europe and the middle east as traders.

korialstraz

08-06-2009, 09:19

Es Mors

08-06-2009, 11:55

I agree that the wizard is out of place, but only because Blizzard makes it so. Where is all the lore explaining how the cultures we already know in Sanctuary met the Asian themed culture and the consequences of that? They just threw the wizard in the game without explaining anything. This is also something I dislike about Diablo 2. I want to know where the Paladin comes from and I want more information than three lines from Warriv or someone else. And not by reading real life books, I want it in the game and thrown in my face, so there is no possible way I miss it.

I really wish Blizzard would make a real fantasy world for Diablo.

LucianDK

08-06-2009, 12:09

The paladins originally comes from the jungles of Kurast, holy warriors of Zakarum, the religion of the Light.

http://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/classes/paladinhistory.shtml

Shino

08-06-2009, 13:37

Asian Theme: there's lots and lots of asian weapons and armor in D1 and D2 ... so there is definitely a place for asian people in sanctuary

Airazor

08-06-2009, 15:52

Initially I wasn't really sure if I liked the design, but it really doesn't matter and I have no problems with it. If you consider how blizzard is expanding the D2 world with all the new lore etc, it only makes sense to include some new races.

Romak

08-06-2009, 16:44

Actually, I understand what the thread starter is trying to say. Many people say "gothic" refering to 'darkness' and all the associated sub-culture themes, while the original word refers to a specific period of time in european medieval in which art in all mediums was inspired by a familiar style. And yeah... Diablo 1 and 2 were heavily inspired by that with all the gothic cathedrals, armor and weapons.

However, even in Diablo 2, when you actually start 'traveling' around the world, you discover places other than the gothic inspired Tristram and Monastery. The deserts for example. So when you develop the world of sanctuary to an actual 'world map'... you can't expect EVERYTHING to be european medieval. Take a look at Alkor... he's indian! that's why there has to be variety, even more in Diablo 3, there's just no other way...

P.S. Natalia and the assassin class in Diablo 2 were also asian inspired.
P.S.S. I also remember that there were two-handed katanas in Diablo 1 xD

fromtheshadow

08-06-2009, 19:28

i ll forgive blizzard for this mistake, if they really make the class fun enough(though i ll go with the male version of the wizard).
i just hope blizzard doesn't make D3 a muliculturalist porn. lets still keep the game western eurasian themed for the most part, arab and european themed that is.

but i can already guess that an act of the game is gonna be asian themed:thumbsdown:
it's not the end of the world.

p.s. the assasian class was not asian! what makes you think so?

Sequitur

08-06-2009, 20:15

All I have to say is...

$34.50

Romak

08-06-2009, 23:20

p.s. the assasian class was not asian! what makes you think so?

They are not asians, but they are asian inspired. They have weapons called "katana" for starter... and their martial art skill tree? What culture is that taken from? I never heard of gothic martial art nor arabic martial art lol... well, right maybe there are a few so don't get me there, but just from looking at her moves, even in the character selection screen you can clearly see where does that taken from.

peasant

09-06-2009, 00:38

Moreover, there's a weapon known as a Kris (http://diablo2.diablowiki.net/Daggers) in the original Diablo II. For those unaware, the kris is a very unique type of weapon found only in Southeast Asia. What's more, the image used in Diablo II matches the actual design of a real kris.

Grawner

09-06-2009, 01:45

i haven't read the diablo lore, but is their any indication of Asia in there?

Boqu

09-06-2009, 02:46

I think that actual asian players will not get the hype because of the wizard's look. all the asian players of D2 that I know, including myself, playing Diablo series because they are DIFFERENT from all other online fantasy games heavily themed with korean/japanese art direction. wizard's asian appearence won't hurt, as long as it is handled right in the game, but I personally am not excited about their asian juice, so if Blizzard throw in wizard for the game to appear to asian crowds, that part is not working so far.

having said that, as long as there is no playable dwarf and elf class running around, Diablo will still be my choice. that is why I quite GW2 and never engaged WOW.

peasant

09-06-2009, 03:53

I think the Wizard being Asian was an accident on Blizzard's part; i.e. they didn't start with the intention on creating an Asian character but rather that it was the best fit.

If you look at the Wizard's original concept (http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2116&cat=563) art (http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=2115&cat=563), you will notice that the Wizard looks more Romani and less grandiose in style with her braided hair, 'hippie' headband and tassels. When you listen to the Wizard's development (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RFsEWrbZCE), they started with the play style concept rather than personality.

Then, as they started filling out the back story, they probably realized that the Wizard's defining traits as a character were that she was young, arrogant, vain and most importantly, an outsider in a foreign land. This is most effectively conveyed visually by making the character a young Asian dressed in fine clothing. I mean, just by looking at the in-game model, you already get a rough idea of who she is in the Diablo setting. She stands out and doesn't fit in but unlike the Witch Doctor and Barbarian, it's not in a savage way. She probably considers herself as sophisticated and worldly as those around her, if not more than.

melianor

09-06-2009, 09:42

I really really wonder, also looking at the post that have been added, how one couild not realize that the Diablo world is already inspired by many cultures (there is only one human race, apart from our different colors and shapes we are physiologically the same) including asian themes.

The mage in Diablo 1 had dark skin and looked african in his features and picture. How does that fit into a "middle-aged" playing theme? I think this question about middle-aged theme is irrelevant to me and also the fact that a character has some asian looks does not bother me either.

The world of Diablo is no place where the anime world has intruded, just because a character has slim eyes and high cheekbones and a graceful powerful walk.

Ravich

10-06-2009, 22:52

i like lots of asian stuff and i think some of them are great people.
Uh.....

lol

GunPowderScarrab

11-06-2009, 00:09

hey, you can piss alot of asians off. I agree that diablo is getting more fantasy instead of hardcore goth, which makes the game so unique and nice, but are you ****ing racist? cmon you don't gotta be rude.

GunPowderScarrab

11-06-2009, 00:13

Ravich

11-06-2009, 01:01

The Fantasy transformation is uniform throughout blizzard, and started as early as WC3 --> WoW.

Look at Tyrande's box cover art for WC3 and notice how gritty the design is. Then look at WoW:

Nightelves went from a dark purple/brown skin tone to fluorescent pink. In WC3 they were almost more blue than purple and when WoW came around they were pure, unfiltered easter egg pink. Their ears also went from

What else? The only buildings they had in WC3 were open stone temples with few walls and lots of pillars, to ridiculous wooden buildings that look like they belong in a Japanese tea garden. And then of course in general the colors of the NE environment in WoW are ridiculous. There is a pink mist that enshrouds absolutely everything, and the sky is never a deep blue, it's always purple, or teal, or pink, or some other ridiculous color. And then of course the trees have pink and purple leaves... It's ridiculous, none of it was in WoW, but

And Diablo 2 had already lost the majority of the goth look right off the bat, so it's not that much of a difference. Just disappointment that they arent returning to their roots I guess.

It's just the way that Blizzard operates. They are trying to appeal to a certain (mass) audience. When people got frustrated with the new look to diablo 3, and started editing photos and demonstrating the atmosphere of the original game, Blizzard released an interview defending themselves, basically just making up whatever they wanted to save face. Like that BS about a light radius. That it isnt practical to make a "smart light radius" which we know is a load of crap because it's been done for the last 10 years in every game that wanted to give off a certain impression in terms of atmosphere (Silent Hill 2 anyone? That was, what, 6 years ago? They managed it back then on a PS2).

It's just blizzard's style: lie about something until people dont think it is a lie anymore. If you tell anyone something enough times, they will start believing it. That's what they did with WoW, and it worked wonders.

peasant

11-06-2009, 03:02

Nightelves went from a dark purple/brown skin tone to fluorescent pink. In WC3 they were almost more blue than purple and when WoW came around they were pure, unfiltered easter egg pink. Their ears also went from

Erm... what? Looks pretty purple to me.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/5/58/Tyrande-Whisperwind2.jpg

The pink ones you're talking about are Blood Elves (http://www.wowwiki.com/Blood_elf).

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/thumb/7/70/Lorthemar.jpg/469px-Lorthemar.jpg

And Diablo 2 had already lost the majority of the goth look right off the bat, so it's not that much of a difference. Just disappointment that they arent returning to their roots I guess.

It's just the way that Blizzard operates. They are trying to appeal to a certain (mass) audience. When people got frustrated with the new look to diablo 3, and started editing photos and demonstrating the atmosphere of the original game, Blizzard released an interview defending themselves, basically just making up whatever they wanted to save face. Like that BS about a light radius. That it isnt practical to make a "smart light radius" which we know is a load of crap because it's been done for the last 10 years in every game that wanted to give off a certain impression in terms of atmosphere (Silent Hill 2 anyone? That was, what, 6 years ago? They managed it back then on a PS2).

It's just blizzard's style: lie about something until people dont think it is a lie anymore. If you tell anyone something enough times, they will start believing it. That's what they did with WoW, and it worked wonders.

First off, 'gothic' is more mood and atmosphere and not simply 'dark colors'. To this end, Diablo III remains true to its roots, especially if the concept art seen are anything to go by.

Furthermore, Diablo II has fair share of bright colors. And to top it off, what we've seen is Act I which takes place in Sanctuary (as opposed to Hell) decades after the end of Diablo II, during which there was peace, people have forgotten about the Prime Evils and the world has recovered. It's likely Diablo has yet to make his return, nor have there been any overt signs of such a plot. Therefore, there's no surprise that the surroundings look less 'evil'.

A reminder: This is the first act. If the dungeons here already feature blood on the walls with bones and corpses littering the ground, the developers can't make Hell look any worse without going over the top, which would then just look camp. By starting off clean, the game can get progressively darker.

Lastly, when designing game visuals, there's more to take into account than just art style. Blizzard also has to think about:

How resource intensive the visuals would make the game?
How visible and readable are the enemies and items?
How time consuming would be to produce the particular visual effect? Can quality be maintained without sacrificing time?

These are just a few other considerations Blizzard must take on board before going ahead with a particular visual style. And all of the ones I've mentioned are as important, if not more so, than artistic flavor.

Ravich

11-06-2009, 04:19

Erm... what? Looks pretty purple to me.
If you had read a bit more carefully, you might have linked a picture of Tyrande's box art for WC3 as well ;)

First off, 'gothic' is more mood and atmosphere and not simply 'dark colors'. To this end, Diablo III remains true to its roots, especially if the concept art seen are anything to go by.

Furthermore, Diablo II has fair share of bright colors. And to top it off, what we've seen is Act I which takes place in Sanctuary (as opposed to Hell) decades after the end of Diablo II, during which there was peace, people have forgotten about the Prime Evils and the world has recovered. It's likely Diablo has yet to make his return, nor have there been any overt signs of such a plot. Therefore, there's no surprise that the surroundings look less 'evil'.

1) Forgot about the prime evils in 20 years, huh?

2) Dungeons full of demons = evil is on the rise.

A reminder: This is the first act. If the dungeons here already feature blood on the walls with bones and corpses littering the ground, the developers can't make Hell look any worse without going over the top, which would then just look camp. By starting off clean, the game can get progressively darker.
Stories with dark themes dont really tend to convey their darkness through shear contrast. The same goes for most things that are well done. Schindler's list didnt get its point across by saying "Ok, so we're going to start off with the part of the holocaust where all the Jews were cherished and celebrated by the Nazi party so that then toward the end when they start the mass genocide thing it's so much more powerful!"

Yes, contrast can be utilized to spectacular results, but when talking about a specific atmosphere, contrast isnt what hits that feeling home.

Lastly, when designing game visuals, there's more to take into account than just art style. Blizzard also has to think about:

How resource intensive the visuals would make the game?
How visible and readable are the enemies and items?
How time consuming would be to produce the particular visual effect? Can quality be maintained without sacrificing time?

[quote]These are just a few other considerations Blizzard must take on board before going ahead with a particular visual style. And all of the ones I've mentioned are as important, if not more so, than artistic flavor.
Yet you fail to explain how on earth "artistic flavor" gets compromised by any of those factors.

peasant

11-06-2009, 04:59

If you had read a bit more carefully, you might have linked a picture of Tyrande's box art for WC3 as well ;)

There's definitely a change in coloration between WC3 and WoW. Just not the drastic bright pink you're making it out to be. :crazyeyes:

1) Forgot about the prime evils in 20 years, huh?

2) Dungeons full of demons = evil is on the rise.

Paraphrased from Blizzcon 2008's lore panel:

Otherwise, life in Sanctuary has gone as normal. Unfortunately, "normal" for Sanctuary is still pretty bad. While the demons aren't around in force, there are still dark creatures who prey on humanity, and people die young very often, making 20 years practically a generation. Those who remember the events of Diablo II are few and far between. Most of them went insane at the time, or have since died. Most people these days believe that the stories of Demons and Angels are just that, stories and myths. Very few believe in Heaven or Hell anymore. (http://news.bigdownload.com/2008/10/15/blizzcon-2008-diablo-iii-art-and-lore-panel-work-in-progress/)

If you have a problem with that, take it up with Blizzard. As for evil being on the rise, that would be correct. However, it hasn't fully risen. Hence, why things aren't fully corrupted yet.

Stories with dark themes dont really tend to convey their darkness through shear contrast. The same goes for most things that are well done. Schindler's list didnt get its point across by saying "Ok, so we're going to start off with the part of the holocaust where all the Jews were cherished and celebrated by the Nazi party so that then toward the end when they start the mass genocide thing it's so much more powerful!"

Yes, contrast can be utilized to spectacular results, but when talking about a specific atmosphere, contrast isnt what hits that feeling home.

The differences between Schindler's List and Diablo III are firstly, the length (I certainly hope Diablo III is longer than a couple of hours) and likely the time course of the plot. From what Blizzard's revealed, the story kicks off before Diablo (or anyone from Hell) has revealed his return.

Yet you fail to explain how on earth "artistic flavor" gets compromised by any of those factors.

Actually, it's the other way around. Artistic flavor is often in opposition to those influences:

By adding more features, effects and doodads, a computer will require more memory to run the game.
As Blizzard has mentioned before; they want their monsters to be quickly spotted and instantly recognizable when they appear. Making things too dark reduces the amount of detail that can be seen and so directly impedes this.
The more features, effects and doodads are added per location, more time is needed to create them and to test them for glitches. Therefore, the more detail is added, the more time is needed. Odds are people have other things to do.

redrach

11-06-2009, 05:30

1) Forgot about the prime evils in 20 years, huh?

This might sound ridiculous to us who live in an age of mass-information storage and where living past 80 years is nothing out of the ordinary, but think about it from the point of view of the average inhabitant of Sanctuary. 20 years = one generation. In that much time a lot of the population of Sanctuary would have already died naturally from old age, and all the youngsters have to go by is the ramblings of their decrepit elders.

AtomicJ

11-06-2009, 07:14

All that you said tells me you know nothing about Diablo world at all .. you just hate asian themed stuff or maybe a case of asian-phobia or anime-phobia (where everything asian = anime = cute girls in bunny suits = yuk!!! ) ... and whatever cause you those issues has nothing to do with what's going to be in D3.

D1 had an African mage
D2 had a Middle Eastern sorceress and a dark skinned paladin

Sanctuary is already bolstering with racial diversity .. there is no logical reason to exclude Asian themes from it whatsoever (unless you have something against it).

And before you play the Gothic card (which makes no sense either) i doubt you even know what Gothic means or where it originated from ... either way ... a Middle Ages Themed game can have Asians, Middle Easterners and people of any race because they all existed during them middle ages period .. it's not like middle ages were in Europe alone XD

So i see no problem in including Asian themed characters or culture (or from any culture) .. D3 team is aiming for diversity and the world of sanctuary has more than enough space to include many races and cultures ... a monotone world with one theme or culture is damn boring and monotonous.

Sorry .. that's total nonsense .. have ever seen an Asian in real life ... go watch some WW2 movies or something ... japanese soldiers and officers looked and acted pretty damn serious to me (if not too serious)

That was a little excessive, Knight_Wolf. I don't think OP means to be an ethnic exclusionist or "racist", I think it's just his opinion that Orient-inspired characters don't fit well into a game which he considers to be centered around Medieval European fantasy. I happen to disagree with him, as I feel an Asian character should be the first addition to any fantasy game due to their martial background and deep cultural material and aesthetics, but I wouldn't be too harsh on the guy.

However...

p.s. the assasian class was not asian! what makes you think so?

The Assassin was definitely Asian-inspired, dude. C'mon. In fact, I consider her to be the Sanctuary equivalent of Japanese. You can't have blacks, whites, and Persians in the game yet exclude East Asians! Blasphemy!!! :crazyeyes:

I will say this: I wasn't a fan of the Paladin being black in D2. It seemed out of place that an African-inspired character would don knightly plate mail from Medieval Europe. It's not impossible, but it's a little strange to me. That's not to say I don't want black characters in Diablo. In fact, I love the Witch Doc's design! A little stereotypical and on the nose, but what can I say? I'm a sucker for traditional, romanticized character roles inspired by the European imagination.

fromtheshadow

11-06-2009, 07:29

The assassin was definitely Asian-inspired, dude. C'mon. In fact, I consider her to be the Sanctuary equivalent of Japanese. You can't have blacks, whites, and Persians in the game yet exclude East Asians! Blasphemy!!! :crazyeyes:

asians are the only people who have martial arts! if i remember correctly word assassin comes from the middle east as the middle east had a whole assassin society. also even if we accept that her fighting style was asian inspired(which it wasn't) she did not look asian appearance wise in anyway.

also i don't think th paladin was black in the way that he wasn't african black. he just seemed to be a dark skinned european looking guy. maybe he was south asian.
p.s. i m not racist i just think you shouldn't mix things up with each other when they belong with each other. Wouldn’t it be awkward if an Asian horror flick had western themes in it?

Ravich

11-06-2009, 09:11

This might sound ridiculous to us who live in an age of mass-information storage and where living past 80 years is nothing out of the ordinary, but think about it from the point of view of the average inhabitant of Sanctuary. 20 years = one generation. In that much time a lot of the population of Sanctuary would have already died naturally from old age, and all the youngsters have to go by is the ramblings of their decrepit elders.
Meh, I could buy it if MAYBE if they said 40 years. I'm aware of the massive differences between the sate of our civilization as opposed to humans in Sanctuary, but one generation just doesnt forget that quickly. It's also a bit iffy to expect people to assume that every bit of evidence that demons walked the earth somehow just got buried. If humanity is having this much trouble in the complete absence of demons, it doesnt make sense that they survived up to this point anyway.

The differences between Schindler's List and Diablo III are firstly, the length (I certainly hope Diablo III is longer than a couple of hours) and likely the time course of the plot. From what Blizzard's revealed, the story kicks off before Diablo (or anyone from Hell) has revealed his return.

Ok, I guess you're suggesting that Blizzard still has time to show the darker side to the game. We'll see, but based on everything blizzard has said in response to the complaints... well, wouldnt they say "just wait until the later parts of the game" if they were planning on addressing those concerns?

Actually, it's the other way around. Artistic flavor is often in opposition to those influences:

* By adding more features, effects and doodads, a computer will require more memory to run the game.
* As Blizzard has mentioned before; they want their monsters to be quickly spotted and instantly recognizable when they appear. Making things too dark reduces the amount of detail that can be seen and so directly impedes this.
* The more features, effects and doodads are added per location, more time is needed to create them and to test them for glitches. Therefore, the more detail is added, the more time is needed. Odds are people have other things to do.
Ok, I'm sorry but the only remotely relevant point you brought up was the middle one. The other 2 have nothing to do with the atmosphere. Who was asking for more detail? As for monsters to be quickly spotted and instantly recognizable, it STILL doesnt speak for the general lack of the dark feeling from Diablo I that people are asking for. A silhouette and a shape is more than enough to accomplish that, and that's not even what they would have to settle for.

peasant

11-06-2009, 15:02

Meh, I could buy it if MAYBE if they said 40 years. I'm aware of the massive differences between the sate of our civilization as opposed to humans in Sanctuary, but one generation just doesnt forget that quickly. It's also a bit iffy to expect people to assume that every bit of evidence that demons walked the earth somehow just got buried. If humanity is having this much trouble in the complete absence of demons, it doesnt make sense that they survived up to this point anyway.

Again, the Powers That Be have spoken. So, that's that from a lore standpoint.

Ok, I guess you're suggesting that Blizzard still has time to show the darker side to the game. We'll see, but based on everything blizzard has said in response to the complaints... well, wouldnt they say "just wait until the later parts of the game" if they were planning on addressing those concerns?

Because a lot of the complainers at the time were calling for a lot more blacks/browns, shadows and graininess. These won't be happening for the reasons Blizzard already mentioned.

Ok, I'm sorry but the only remotely relevant point you brought up was the middle one. The other 2 have nothing to do with the atmosphere. Who was asking for more detail? As for monsters to be quickly spotted and instantly recognizable, it STILL doesnt speak for the general lack of the dark feeling from Diablo I that people are asking for. A silhouette and a shape is more than enough to accomplish that, and that's not even what they would have to settle for.

Well, how do you propose to make things 'darker'/creepier? More often than not, that means adding more details and features, which in turn increases the workload and resources needed to run the game. I suggest you search for the art debate. A lot, if not all of these points, on both sides of the argument, were already covered there.

Smash

11-06-2009, 16:22

lazylink

11-06-2009, 18:39

This isn't Earth, it's Sanctuary. For all we know Asians may have become a central part of that world since the end of D2. Besides it's not like we visited all of Sanctuary in D1 and D2, and that the middle eastern people are just now making contact with the Asians.

This isn't Earth, it's Sanctuary and for all we know cats and dogs are living together, people ride hover bikes and Sanctuary's favorite candy bar is golden grahams.

Your argument sucks

Knight_Wolf

11-06-2009, 20:09

This isn't Earth, it's Sanctuary and for all we know cats and dogs are living together, people ride hover bikes and Sanctuary's favorite candy bar is golden grahams.

Your argument sucks

At least he does have an argument .. you have provided nothing other than bashing and bad sarcasm.

Sanctuary isn't earth but it clearly mimics it when it comes to its civilizations and cultures ... so there is no freaking reason why an Asian-esque culture can't exist in Sanctuary if a Mayan jungle culture and an Arabian/middle eastern culture were both presented in D2 and fit just right .... unless you have something against Asians or something there is entirely no argument whatsoever or of any kind against this addition. :coffee:

lazylink

11-06-2009, 23:13

At least he does have an argument .. you have provided nothing other than bashing and bad sarcasm.

Sanctuary isn't earth but it clearly mimics it when it comes to its civilizations and cultures ... so there is no freaking reason why an Asian-esque culture can't exist in Sanctuary if a Mayan jungle culture and an Arabian/middle eastern culture were both presented in D2 and fit just right .... unless you have something against Asians or something there is entirely no argument whatsoever or of any kind against this addition. :coffee:

ok, i guess when I meet a preaching neonazi (on the internet or in real life) ill just ignore him, because all ill be doing is bashing bad arguments with "bad" sarcasm, clearly ignoring him would be the right thing to do.

Frankly I find your criticism quite poignant. :coffee:

nicro tower

12-06-2009, 01:11

I agree with lazylink's first post.

Why can't the paladin be black? He freaking lives in a jungle which in our world would probably be right on the equator. Sunlight much? Also, how do you know the wizard doesn't live in some place where people naturally don't tan...

peasant

12-06-2009, 03:19

According to the lore, the Wizard hails from Xiansai (http://www.diablowiki.net/Xiansai), which is located at the north-eastern corner of the world map.

Jephery

14-06-2009, 14:34

The Wizard is suppose to be out of place.

DragonChi

14-06-2009, 17:05

All I have to say is...

$34.50

LOL, that was from Russel Peters stand-up sketch right?

Popeye

14-06-2009, 17:11

This is the dumbest discussion I've seen so far. That the Diablo Universe is mainly inspired in western europe doesn't mean that it has to stay there. How would you explain kurast? or all the asian weapons in the game? It's seems that if the culture diversity makes the game better it's all fine with it... but if we put someone who isn't caucasic -or black- we make a f***ng mess.

d1 sorcerer and weapons
d2 sorceress, palandin, lut golein, kurast, hell, weapons, and all the characters and npcs from those cities...

Oh and also, where the hell do you think that blizzard take ghouls, for instance? From "western europe"?, or in fact, do you think that the idea of heaven and hell was created in england or in the usa? You got to be kidding.

DragonChi

14-06-2009, 17:24

Knight_Wolf

14-06-2009, 18:39

the one thing i don't get is. if the wizard's in this game are meant to be asian-esque, why does the male wizard look north american? only the female looks asian.which basically says that wizard's can come from any culture in this world. though, no other class has had 2 completely seperate eccentricities for the male and female. so maybe that was a mistake. who knows.

Hmmm .. the Male wizard seems very Asian to me (in the artwork that is since we never got a close look at the in-game model) ... i mean .. what isn't "Asian" about him .. really.

http://us.media.blizzard.com/1901200114/_images/artwork/ss72.jpg

The long hair
The small beard
The look and attitude of a yakuza or a Chinese gangster

He might look a little like an Asian-American but still the Asian look is there .. it wouldn't make sense at all if one gender of a class is from an ethnicity and the other from a different one.

DarkChaos

14-06-2009, 19:13

OP is a racist troll.

D2's assassin was most certainly inspired by Asian cultures.

PReP

14-06-2009, 20:04

Asian, European, African (and so forth).
This is the _diablo world_, we shouldn't bother with such IRL details :)

DragonChi

14-06-2009, 20:37

i dunno..i guess its just me. the male wizard looks american to me. its no big deal. i just thought id make that observation. and you are right, it doesn't make sense for them to do that. perhaps with more model and concept art to come, the asian look will become more apparent.its hard to tell with the one we have because of the angle in which the character is looking.

windforce

14-06-2009, 23:21

Who gives a flying **** about the wizard's race? Diablo characters come in all colors and creeds. What makes the wizard seem odd is not the fact that it's asian (There are many asian items in diablo and d2 so it's only fitting that we get to have an asian char), but the fact that it is just too much like caster classes in other games.

a) The name. It's too Harry Potter-esque and kiddish. "Sorcerer" and "Necromancer" are much more fitting name for diablo characters than "Wizard". Blah.

b) The wizard's appearance in my eyes does not fit with the gothic theme... unlike virtually every other playable character in the diablo franchise, the wizard is just some teenager going around casting flashy spells... it's as if Blizzard is trying to make a class thats young and "hip" to appeal to a very mainstream audience. The only other character that shared some of these characteristics was the Sorceress in D2. However at least the sorceress had a clothing style that was unique to diablo, unlike the wizard who has the same sort of uninspired look that we see in games like WoW and Guild Wars. Boring.

c) The wizard skills that we have seen in action have been hit and miss. Some skills like disintigrate and frost nova look pretty cool. But other skills like that one in the gameplay trailer that looks like a melee attack.. I forget what it's called but it looks totally boring. And "Freeze Time"? Give me a break, if a character is capable of freezing time, it would be the most powerful being in the world. They should keep the skills simple and to the point like in the previous diablo games. Some of these skills just aren't diablo-esque... They need to bring back Frozen Orb... the single coolest spell in any game I have ever played. Oh yeah and is it just me or is there no more fire wall spell? Fire wall has been a staple of diablo, wtf!

edit: upon further review, I must say the male wizard does not look that lame... but the female just looks like a dumb teenage slut...

korialstraz

15-06-2009, 01:02

Stop time? I haven't seen that yet, 'cause indeed that would be OP. Or at least most likely.

Slow time however... very interesting skill which I can see being used offensively and defensively.

AtomicJ

15-06-2009, 02:35

I wish Blizzard would just release more videos and photos of the male Wiz up close already. We've already had glimpses of him, so his model's obviously finished. Why not give us a good look? The anticipation is painful. :P

And I agree with windforce about the moniker "Wizard". It's not a deal breaker for me, but the term does seem a little... uninspired. I disagree with him, however, on the female Wiz's look. I like it, makes her look kind of hip and edgy IMO.:thumbsup:

Corvinas

15-06-2009, 03:15

I've lingered about these forums for some time now but have waited to post until now. Let's take a look back at the original post of this thread. Succinctly stated, it supposed that the Wizard did not fit with established Diablo lore and games. He (or she) made the argument that Diablo was inspired only by European or Middle Eastern influences, particularly that of the Middle Ages.

I'm not going to touch on the rightful place of Asian-themed influences in the established games and lore (mostly since people have already disproved this claim). Instead I'm going to touch a little bit on the historical argument.

it was mostly a middle ages theme fantasy world were people were mostly european or middle eastern looking as the gothic atmosphere pretty much deals with european medieval period with fantasy fair.

For starters, the "Middle Ages" constituted a long period of time, roughly a millenium (that's a thousand years on the odd chance anyone missed that). Given that immense time frame, a lot happened. This included Muslim conquests in the 7th and 8th centuries, the Mongol empire in the 13th and 14th centuries, and of course the Crusades (which if I correctly gathered, is what most of you are basing your assumptions of the era on). All this and I haven't even touched on the Huns or Russia (which when blended with East Asian influences, gave birth to Natalya and the Assassin class). So, what do all these things have in common? The Middle East, Russia, the Huns, the Mongols? They're all Asian and they're very much a part of the Middle Ages.

To be fair, the original poster is largely talking about East Asian influences, so we'll eliminate the Middle East and Russia from the discussion. Fair enough. But the Huns, and even more to the point, the Mongols, are very much of the Asian influence that is being discussed here. Both of these peoples left a huge mark on the Europe of the Middle Ages influences, be it by established trade routes or outright invasion. I'd invite the naysayers to take a little trip through the history books.

So... if the opinion that Asian influences shouldn't have a place in the Diablo world stems simply from a dislike of those cultures or peoples then so be it - I'm not trying to change your views but there is, afterall, more to them than anime influence. But if the argument is that they don't have an established place in the previous games and lore - or even more to the point - in history, then the OP is mistaken.

[Sidebar: For the record, I'm not Asian nor have I been to Asia. I'm a corn-fed white boy from the Midwest with German, Welsh, and Irish heritage. I'm not stumping from the racial soapbox.]

Smash

15-06-2009, 12:24

@Corvinas Medieval term or Middle ages are term use for Europe history as it speaks about period in Europe history Excalibur etc. Gothic is term used for Europe only too.

Read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

I got impression that you didn't understand topic, it about that Asian do not fit wizard class because it is out from stereotype. That's all.

korialstraz

15-06-2009, 18:42

it about that Asian do not fit wizard class because it is out from stereotype. That's all.

I thought it was about the Asian theme as a whole didn't fit with the Diablo universe :tongue:

Corvinas

15-06-2009, 18:49

I got impression that you didn't understand topic, it about that Asian do not fit wizard class because it is out from stereotype. That's all.

I very much got the gist of the topic. In fact, I clearly stated that I understood that in the first few sentences of my post.

@Corvinas Medieval term or Middle ages are term use for Europe history as it speaks about period in Europe history Excalibur etc. Gothic is term used for Europe only too.

Read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_Ages

My point was simply to clear up the misconception of what actually constitutes the Middle Ages. Case in point - the reference to Excalibur. Great legend, but a misconception or distortion of actual history, much like the common views of the Middle Ages.

The very article you linked proves my point - you can't paint an accurate picture of the Middle Ages of Europe as a whole without factoring in the Asian influences brought to the region by trade and invasion during that time. In fact, many would argue that the period began because of influences from Asiatic powers. One might compare it to the Asian influences we've seen trickle in during the first two games - namely that of weapons and names. Now, as real-world history progressed the mingling of Asian and European cultures (and particularly of its people) increased. Would it not stand to reason that a world seemingly based on that period of history might follow a similar path? That in the world of Sanctuary those influences and comingling would increase as well?

We saw minor influence in Diablo, but that was a small scale story told within the confines of a single town. Diablo II widened that scope, and in so doing introduced many additional outside influences. With the scale and scope of Diablo III being that much wider, obviously you're going to witness environments and cultures outside the accepted norm. And hell, talking from a strictly sales and lore perspective, if you don't expand and grow your properties - if you're not expanding your world and universe - you're looking at series stagnation.

Funkopotamus

15-06-2009, 19:01

Hmmm .. the Male wizard seems very Asian to me (in the artwork that is since we never got a close look at the in-game model) ... i mean .. what isn't "Asian" about him .. really.

[ IMG ]http://us.media.blizzard.com/1901200114/_images/artwork/ss72.jpg[ /IMG ]

The long hair
The small beard
The look and attitude of a yakuza or a Chinese gangster

He might look a little like an Asian-American but still the Asian look is there .. it wouldn't make sense at all if one gender of a class is from an ethnicity and the other from a different one.
I don't think this guy looks asian at all. I mean, yeah, he's dressed in stereotypical Eastern attire but that doesn't make him any more Asian than that time I ate a dog made me an alligator. Small beards and long hair doesn't make you necessarily look Asian either. I think they make you look like you're anyone in a band or me or half my friends in highschool. Nor am I sure what kind of attitude a Yakuza or Chinese gangster has and if it's any different than any other gangster's attitude.

But, his face is at a weird angle so I can't really tell for sure.