If only Chaos Tristram was harder ...

[frenzy kujaku]

Having run Ubers for days on end with my frenzy barb, half built smiter and kicksin hybrid, the difficulty of uberring does seem to be overrated. After a while, Uberring gets boring because it no longer poses as a challenge. I came out with new challenges to get kicks from killing ubers, i.e. using only unique exceptional and original runewords items on an uber smiter. No HOZ, torch, anni, or anything of that sort. All the items I used can be found in nm. The most expensive item I used was probably a rockstopper. I tested it in a 2 player game, where my friend was standing and watching me. Sad to say, it did not work. I will be testing this cheap build again to see if this way of ubering is possible.

However, seeing the huge availability of unid and id torches out on the market, makes me wonder why the developers did not make uberring harder.

I thought to myself, if I were the game developer, what monsters would I have replaced to make uberring incredibly difficult? The premise of this thought experiment is:

1) Meph and D spawn 1 type of minion each. Baal spawns 2 types. So, I can only choose 1 type for Meph and D each; 2 types for Baal.
2) The minions I choose must exist in the game already and not some fantasy hybrid minion. The immunity given to these minions is the same as the original ones.
3) All other postulations must conform to the originality of D2 LOD ver 1.12, regardless of items, monsters, build, etc.

So here it goes:

If I were to make ubers harder for solo uberring, I would

1) Diablo: instead of immune all but physical pit lords, spawn immune all but physical Oblivion knights, have the OK casters cast Iron maiden when players are in melee range, and cast decrepify or lower resist when out of melee range.

2) Meph: instead of skelly mages/archers, spawn same immunity Black Souls, which inherently drains mana as well.

3) Baal: instead of immune physical, immune cold vampire blood lords and immune physical and immune poison wraiths, spawn
a) immune physical and poison Claw Vipers found in Hall of Vaught,
b) immune physical and cold Hell Lords.

Hence, the predicted end result for a solo player is,

Against D:
1) All melee chars will find it harder or impossible to deal with D because of IM.
2) Long range chars, i.e, bow zons/sorc etc, never really stand a chance in the first place. This will make it harder.

Against Meph:
1) While melee chars can still find a way around this, Black souls deal physical and lightning damage, which will make it incredibly scary to fight with meph's conviction on. And remember, Meph spawns very quickly, hence there will be tonnes of black souls blazing the screen at you. I foresee Thundergod's and wisp ring will be very popular. Sanc aura will be useful too.
2) Long range chars will have to bow out of these because lightning from souls pierce.

Against Baal:
1) Claw Vipers from the Vaught are bugged. Their poison darts do so much damage if you stand in the poison cloud. It will be interesting to see how anyone survives this since Baal tends to push the player away, the player may end up in a poison cloud. Their melee damage is fairly painful as well.

2) Hell Lords that frenzy. These are fast once they gain momentum. Frenzy on frenzy, my frenzy barb made to uber couldn't handle these when I encountered a group of immune physical hell lords, with a special leader giving them fanaticism and cursing me with amp dam. I had to run off because I couldn't leech back anything and was taking huge damage.

If a smiter tries to take on all three at once, he will be dealing with,
i) IM in close combat
ii) Meph's conviction
iii) lower resist/decrepify if not in close combat
iv) lightning from souls usually drifting out of melee range.
v) poison from vipers that are immune physical
vi) melee frenzy from hell lords that are immune physical
vii) the ubers themselves.

That is one hell of a potent concoction.

So, how then is this hypothetical Chaos tristram going to be playable?

I suggested this hypothetical uberring so that not one build can dominate the scene like smiters have. To kill the ubers in this hypothetical situation, a group of players will be needed. That can include pallys, barbs, zons, sorcs, necros, sins and druids. Their skills should overlap one another and cover up any weaknesses experienced by any single build. This will thus reduce the ease of getting torches and improve team play as opposed to making torches so cheap and playing solo in a multiplayer game.

If you were the game developer, what minions will you have the ubers spawn to make Chaos Tristram tougher?

Cheers
Frenzy Kujaku

[ThomasJohnsen]

So, how then is this hypothetical Chaos tristram going to be playable?

I suggested this hypothetical uberring so that not one build can dominate the scene like smiters have. To kill the ubers in this hypothetical situation, a group of players will be needed. That can include pallys, barbs, zons, sorcs, necros, sins and druids. Their skills should overlap one another and cover up any weaknesses experienced by any single build. This will thus reduce the ease of getting torches and improve team play as opposed to making torches so cheap and playing solo in a multiplayer game.

While I share your enthusiasm for encouraging team-play, I doubt making ubering this difficult is the way to do it. I think you are forgetting all those, who prefer playing alone or with a few friends, all the poor players, the hardcore mode and so on.
Ubering isn't hard now, I'll grant you that. And there are alot of smiters out there, but ubers have been beat by any character type and a great variety of builds. Some builds even out-perform the smiter. Making ubers extremely hard will make room for one or two highly specialized builds able to solo them at your level of difficulty (a pdr based berserk barb with T-Gods comes to mind) and this will be a new cookie-cutter, that all will wan't to play.
If you wan't challenge, I suggest trying to beat ubers with a different/obscure build. There are many guides out there, and playing a few non-cookie-cutters through uber-tristram could be loads of fun, instead of playing the same old character and suggesting the game to change.

[Nighthavk]

So, how then is this hypothetical Chaos tristram going to be playable?

Cheers
Frenzy KujakuSummoner Necromancer with Tgod and Max. Dim Vision.

Strategy:

1. Dim Vision on the edge of screen, move cautiously.
2. Pull bosses one by one.
3. Stack on bosses, run away, keep casting Dim Vision on spawning minions.
4. Rinse and repeat for other bosses.

So it wouldn't be Smiters but Summoner who'd dominate UT. And since people specifically design characters to take down UT, they'd make a summoner now on instead no problem.

[jel]

Their poison darts do so much damage if you stand in the poison cloud.

Actually that is if you move in their clouds which melee chars most likely wouldn't, otherwise to counter it completely have ~49 idr.


1) All melee chars will find it harder or impossible to deal with D because of IM.
2) Long range chars, i.e, bow zons/sorc etc, never really stand a chance in the first place. This will make it harder.

Incorrect, first big D doesn't do enough damage to be really dangerous enough for a well build melee char (frenzy and smiter) to not be able via the use of full revs to stand in front of him and still get those oblivions away before he starts to make new ones (which he only does if you get him outside of your screen as when engaged the ubers stop summoning).

Second let's go through the chars:
1) strafezons can beat tristram, have been done before, she would most likely be able to take down big D as well. The thing is, life tap can make it work, if you can lure the übers one by one.
2) assassins, would be harder with the curses flying, though I suppose cloak of shadows would elimate that thread instantly, fade making any unwanted curse go away quickly, though she could also either go low damage kicks and use a high venom to finish of Diablo or just use revives charges for protection and a lot of cb.
3) barbs, after singling out Diablo, would most likely remove each oblivion knight with berzerk, though without going so far away that these would be resummoned by Diablo, using warcry to hold one at a place, so it doesn't run otu of weapon range when swinging could work well. After that frenzy against diablo
4) druids, well a fury druid could get in trouble, if it wasn't because hunger + life tap apparently beats iron maiden and as it's the crushing blow + open wounds that is most important I think the druid can manage, the end result will just be 4 time as long a run.
5) necromancer: Revives + crowd control curses would still own this place, sure oblivion knights may be immune to most crowd control, but they don't go melee which would aggro your minions as well, so with maxed resist and as Diablo still doesn't do that much damage, it shouldn't be any problem at all.
6) paladin: The smiter would most likely take out the oblivion knights, as they're undead, using blessed hammer (being a 1 pt smite, hammerdin) or with vengeace (being an avenger) or with holy bolts (being a healer).
7) Sorcs, as the damage from sorcs are elemental the dual dream setup would still work rather nicely.


2) Long range chars will have to bow out of these because lightning from souls pierce.
Again life tap healing and crowd control curses makes these before so dangerous creatues nothing to fear, though it'd be adviceable to have more idr than usual, and have the usual stacked resists.


Against Baal:
1) Claw Vipers from the Vaught are bugged. Their poison darts do so much damage if you stand in the poison cloud. It will be interesting to see how anyone survives this since Baal tends to push the player away, the player may end up in a poison cloud. Their melee damage is fairly painful as well.
Again you actually have to move around in the cloud, and knockback doesn't count, so unless you change the game mechanics, it wouldn't work like this, and even if you do 49 integer damage reduction saves the day, unless you start brining in other auras than conviction. The idr which you'd already have to beat off souls.



2) Hell Lords that frenzy. These are fast once they gain momentum. Frenzy on frenzy, my frenzy barb made to uber couldn't handle these when I encountered a group of immune physical hell lords, with a special leader giving them fanaticism and cursing me with amp dam. I had to run off because I couldn't leech back anything and was taking huge damage.

Against any place where these won't be resummoned if you run away, it will often work to have a range 5, fast, medicore poison damaging stick, most preferable with OW, as eventhough these monsters have range 7, all you have to do is to get 2*2/3=4/3 yard before they take a swing, which takes 9 frames, or in other words you'd need a speed of 25/9*4/3=100/27 ~3 yards pr. second, so every barb with or without faster run walk would be able to reach 4/3 yard in less than 9 frames and thereby that tactic will work, unless you come to a point where you can't ww backwards anymore. Another good idea is to howl the minions away, take the boss out using warcry + berzerk and then taunt the minions back one at a time, using warcry + berzerk to take them one by one.

However as this is über tristram, you'd just be leeching off of big D with your frenzy + life tap, if you really want to, for safety, you'd also howl every single minion far far away. Again crowd control curses and life tap on bosses works wonders.

Though I'd say if someone made a mod like this and it'd be accepted as a challenge for the single player community, where you'd to fight all of these übers at the same time, I'd say it'd be a great way to test your playing skills, and a temporary way of having übers in single player as well, if someone would be up for modding this.

Otherwise I do also agree with ThomanJohnsen, however even with these minions it's still very doable by one player, by singling out each über. Even if that's not possible revives for CB + crowd control curses still wrecks havoc.

[Jednowlosy]

Dim vision, cloak of shadows, and other crowd control skills would be useful in such a uberplace.

I don't like the idea of Oblivion Knights, though - IM is annoying, it shouldn't even be there, it does not add to the challenge, but to annoyance: It's a lottery, either you kill them with your hands behind your back, or get randomly cursed and die of 1 hit.

I would personally improve ubers by:

a) adding chain activation. You have to fight them all at once - there is no way of luring them one by one.
b) adding mods to ubers such as extra strong and stone skin - randomly selected.

And a possible

c) making ubers immune to curses - no more smiterfest.

would be enough to make it challenging.

[jel]

And a possible

c) making ubers immune to curses - no more smiterfest.

would be enough to make it challenging.

I don't know, wouldn't it just turn everyone into using meat shield revives with crushing blow, adding open wounds yourself or with a merc or both and then having some kind of main skill that deals with the ubers last "few" hit points after CB have lost its effect?

[Jednowlosy]

Well, maybe they could just remove the shield-always-hits BS from smite instead.

[ancalagon]

I agree with , Uber Tristram is not that hard even with half-built smiters. I once spent a lot on a smiter (you know Exile, Grief, Last Wish, Skillers with life, Upped Hoz, Forti, Phoenix, gozu COA, the whole shebang for different options,) when I realised I could do it just as easily with no CTA and a life tap wand on switch, lure Mephisto out, life tap him smite away. Then go for Baal and Diablo. And this with stuff like a Spirit Protector Shield, Giant Skull , Treks, Metalgrids, rare res belts or even an Arach (once), Venom Grips, Goblin Toes, and LSaber or Azurewrath (although Azure is awesome for the vampire and wraith PIs). BTW one hell of an underestimated smiter weapon is Astreon with +4 skills and good dmg+X, put a Ber in it and Gores+Gulli you got 100CB. I got 9 HRs for this beauty, crazy but true.

So anyway back to the point, yes, UT becomes boring and ends up into a hunt for nice Sorc or Pala torches, but your proposal is a bit too much. PI Hell Lords? Too much. Meph constantly spawning Gloams? Nah. And the bugged vipers in UT? That poison cloud deals insane CB-like damage. Iron Maiden in UT? Iron Maiden is not a challenge, theres a fine line between a challenge and plain stupidity (same for Mana Burn).

(BTW: A fana + amp damage PI Hell Lord!?!?? OMG thats gotta be painful. You must have had 5k+ life. Cuz that can do like 2k to 3k damage in one hit, and thats just one of them. Lure away and Berserk, repeat with minions. Thats one hell of a challenge.)

Why not instead have UT split up into three to four sections, where you could face 2 bosses each? (Meph and Dia, Baal and Lilith, Duriel and Izzy, and then maybe Uber Nihla and Uber Summoner?) That would be a sweet challenge. And add random mods to the Ubers like with the Ancients. (pick from Stone Skin, Cursed, Aura Enchant, Extra Strong). I agree they could remove the Always Hit property of smite but then they have to add a good AR bonus to the skill, Palas always have measly AR unless they use Angelics and mass AR charms. Same for assassins and barbarians.

[jel]

I agree with , Uber Tristram is not that hard even with half-built smiters. I once spent a lot on a smiter (you know Exile, Grief, Last Wish, Skillers with life, Upped Hoz, Forti, Phoenix, gozu COA, the whole shebang for different options,) when I realised I could do it just as easily with no CTA and a life tap wand on switch, lure Mephisto out, life tap him smite away. Then go for Baal and Diablo. And this with stuff like a Spirit Protector Shield, Giant Skull , Treks, Metalgrids, rare res belts or even an Arach (once), Venom Grips, Goblin Toes, and LSaber or Azurewrath (although Azure is awesome for the vampire and wraith PIs). BTW one hell of an underestimated smiter weapon is Astreon with +4 skills and good dmg+X, put a Ber in it and Gores+Gulli you got 100CB. I got 9 HRs for this beauty, crazy but true.

So anyway back to the point, yes, UT becomes boring and ends up into a hunt for nice Sorc or Pala torches, but your proposal is a bit too much. PI Hell Lords? Too much. Meph constantly spawning Gloams? Nah. And the bugged vipers in UT? That poison cloud deals insane CB-like damage. Iron Maiden in UT? Iron Maiden is not a challenge, theres a fine line between a challenge and plain stupidity (same for Mana Burn).

(BTW: A fana + amp damage PI Hell Lord!?!?? OMG thats gotta be painful. You must have had 5k+ life. Cuz that can do like 2k to 3k damage in one hit, and thats just one of them. Lure away and Berserk, repeat with minions. Thats one hell of a challenge.)

Why not instead have UT split up into three to four sections, where you could face 2 bosses each? (Meph and Dia, Baal and Lilith, Duriel and Izzy, and then maybe Uber Nihla and Uber Summoner?) That would be a sweet challenge. And add random mods to the Ubers like with the Ancients. (pick from Stone Skin, Cursed, Aura Enchant, Extra Strong). I agree they could remove the Always Hit property of smite but then they have to add a good AR bonus to the skill, Palas always have measly AR unless they use Angelics and mass AR charms. Same for assassins and barbarians.

The thing is, either you've to make it impossible for a single player character without unreasonable skills to defeat the place or the character it's reasonable possible for will just be mass produced and people are complaining again about it for being too easy.

I like how it is now actually, I'd just like if it was related to the game storywise or at least quest related.

[jakotaco]

Could make the three ubers more build specific to encourage diversity and (one could wish, cooperation)

*For example, one of the ubers could be made summoners, having very powerful single target attacks which would be dangerous for anyone trying to take them out alone.

*Another uber could be made specifically to be best beaten by a melee char, having unbreakable elemental resists and skills that gives summoners problems (such as AoE stun or fear)

*And then the last uber could be made for casters, high elemental resists instead of elemental immunities, throw in physical immunity and some attack that forces the attacker to stay mobile and let casters have a go in UT.

[AnimeCraze]

a) adding chain activation. You have to fight them all at once - there is no way of luring them one by one.Doesn't work. With a somewhat decent 1 point smiter and a necro with no minions, we can still pull off UT with all 3 ubers out. Confuse makes them a complete wuss, since we no longer need to care about the minions. However, I do recommend this change, as the battle is supposed to be epic, not some stupid poorly AI boss making a suicide run at you.

[frenzy kujaku]

It has been interesting reading your thoughts on this hypothetical Chaos Tristram.

When asking this hypothetical scenario, I was really gunning for a situation where team work amongst different builds can cover the weaknesses found in individual builds. In proposing the minion changes, I was hoping that the weaknesses in individual builds can be exploited so that every build can work together as a team. Challenging myself is not the reason for this hypothetical case. Neither am I suggesting changes just because my commonly used uber chars can beat the ubers all the time. After many solo uber-hunting and mfing sessions, I have begun to forget how fun it was when I started playing this game with a few friends as a LAN game. Starting from level 1, shouting at one another for help, plummeling the monsters together and running away together were and are still very addictive. Nostalgia is possibly my trigger for asking if chaos tristram was made harder, would it made team play more popular? After all, why should anyone play together if one person can solo everything and pick all the drops himself? Cooperative and unselfish play is what I would love to see. I started playing Bnet alone and made only 2 friends online after 7 months of playing on ladder alone. With these two online friends, I have given them high runes for them to make their LWs and they have given me good stuff for free. Like everyone else, I started as a poor ladder player and furthermore, I was on hiatus for a few years. I have no other chars other than those I built when the ladder started.

Speaking of challenge, my challenge is not to build a different build against ubers. My challenge has been to use the cheapest items and items that can be found by most players to fight the ubers. As such, my cheap smiter version was built with the following items:

Helm: Rockstopper
Armour: Smoke
Weapon: Black
Shield: Moser's/ Gerke's Sanc
Belt: Strings/Tgods
Gloves: Bloodfist
Amulet: Mahim-oak
Rings: Any rare I found or gambled for
Boots: Goblin Toe

Switch: Life tap wand
Inventory: any str/dex/low life charms I can find.
Prebuff: Treachery breastplate

Sadly, I was killed by Meph because my smiter swung too slowly when chilled by the skellys. I am still on the quest of trying to get these to work and then use even cheaper items than these, i.e. nightsmoke belt instead of strings, or any magical rings I find, etc.

If I were to rephrase my hypothetical 'If only', it really is asking: what would you change in the Chaos Tristram to encourage team play over solo hunting?

Some of your inputs have addressed that question and I appreciate your opinions.

I am glad that there are players out there who are enthused over team play.

Cheers

Frenzy Kujaku

[jel]

It has been interesting reading your thoughts on this hypothetical Chaos Tristram.

When asking this hypothetical scenario, I was really gunning for a situation where team work amongst different builds can cover the weaknesses found in individual builds. In proposing the minion changes, I was hoping that the weaknesses in individual builds can be exploited so that every build can work together as a team. Challenging myself is not the reason for this hypothetical case. Neither am I suggesting changes just because my commonly used uber chars can beat the ubers all the time. After many solo uber-hunting and mfing sessions, I have begun to forget how fun it was when I started playing this game with a few friends as a LAN game. Starting from level 1, shouting at one another for help, plummeling the monsters together and running away together were and are still very addictive. Nostalgia is possibly my trigger for asking if chaos tristram was made harder, would it made team play more popular? After all, why should anyone play together if one person can solo everything and pick all the drops himself? Cooperative and unselfish play is what I would love to see. I started playing Bnet alone and made only 2 friends online after 7 months of playing on ladder alone. With these two online friends, I have given them high runes for them to make their LWs and they have given me good stuff for free. Like everyone else, I started as a poor ladder player and furthermore, I was on hiatus for a few years. I have no other chars other than those I built when the ladder started.

Speaking of challenge, my challenge is not to build a different build against ubers. My challenge has been to use the cheapest items and items that can be found by most players to fight the ubers. As such, my cheap smiter version was built with the following items:

Helm: Rockstopper
Armour: Smoke
Weapon: Black
Shield: Moser's/ Gerke's Sanc
Belt: Strings/Tgods
Gloves: Bloodfist
Amulet: Mahim-oak
Rings: Any rare I found or gambled for
Boots: Goblin Toe

Switch: Life tap wand
Inventory: any str/dex/low life charms I can find.
Prebuff: Treachery breastplate

Sadly, I was killed by Meph because my smiter swung too slowly when chilled by the skellys. I am still on the quest of trying to get these to work and then use even cheaper items than these, i.e. nightsmoke belt instead of strings, or any magical rings I find, etc.

If I were to rephrase my hypothetical 'If only', it really is asking: what would you change in the Chaos Tristram to encourage team play over solo hunting?

Some of your inputs have addressed that question and I appreciate your opinions.

I am glad that there are players out there who are enthused over team play.

Cheers

Frenzy Kujaku

If you want a cheap build take a look at ThePoorMan's guide, a Paladin who was among the first to defeat übers on hardcore, if not the first, meanwhile only using stuff as the iratha set, 4 socketed Pdiamond shield, life tap wand, goblin toe, etc.

He won, and his worst encounter wasn't meph as it is for most people, no it was Baal due to the mana drain.

About how to make team work better, well I'm sorry, but I can't really add to what others have said, and your idea now that I understand what you ment, seems also good, but as mentioned it's probably not enough, like someone else mentioned, summoners don't like high unresistable AoE damage, meleers can't do much against something they can't life tap, or is physical immunes, unless they've a minion stack and other means of damage, and casters have a hard time against many targets all over the place, which moves fast and have high resist. But all this, as mentioned, have been mentioned, and I don't think it's really very possible to come much closer, as the attack artillery of the übers would have to be changed, likewise their resists and how curses, etc. effects them.

[ThomasJohnsen]

I think the problem lies within game design. How do you design a game, that can be played for 1-8 players and in softcore/hardcore modes, without making it too easy/difficult for any combination of players/builds? This cannot be solved without making a complicated analysis of the members and builds of a team, and then designing the environment and enemies based on that information. I don't believe this was even remotely possible when the game was created, and I doubt it will be present in Diii either.
If they did design some places in the game to be so challenging, that you would need the talents and abilities of several classes (ie. a team) to conquer them, the single player community would be completely left hanging. And if some key-areas were so difficult, that you would likely die crossing them, regardless of your equipment, game developers would have an outcry from the hardcore players.
After all it is much easier to design a game for 1 player (hard- or softcore) and then just increasing the life of monsters, when more people join.

[mephiztophelez]

@ OP: do a google search for "The Poorman Takes on Uber Tristram" by Grimborn (it's over at the Amazon Basin.)

Well, maybe they could just remove the shield-always-hits BS from smite instead.

or remove the ability of Smite to set off Chance to Cast spells (like lifetap).

[moneymango]

Uber trist is so hard, that most people have to specifically design builds to beat it. Of course its easy now when tried and true methods for success have been designed.

Any way, if you want to get that feeling back of a pure game or whatever, I suggest playing a single pass hardcore character with some of your friends. It is fun and requires some team work.

[SeCKSEgai]

Using a smiter to compare the difficulty in uber trist is a poor choice as they are ideal for the task in the first place with an attack that hits its target in range short of clawblock. Combined with the other tool's in a paladin's aresenal it's not going to be a challenge.

As far as the rest of the classes, you're going to need some decent gear to make it through solo, and as it stands now I feel that the challenge offered is enough. I've got over 80 successful runs and the standards to prove it, but my little kicker also has some decent equipment.

The thing being missed is that everyone here doing them solo is rocking at least one (typically several) runewords and that alone makes it out of reach for a lot of the general populace. If every build could solo it then I'd say it was too easy, but the difficulty factor is quite apparent when compared to hell baal and minions, and even that is difficult for a great deal of people as is.

I like the fact that ubertrist is geared toward melee, as I would have never made a melee character for pvm otherwise since my casters are far more proficient in general pvm.

[jel]

The thing being missed is that everyone here doing them solo is rocking at least one (typically several) runewords and that alone makes it out of reach for a lot of the general populace.

I believe due to the availability of items on b.net nowadays that most people uses high runewords to be safe, they aren't needed however. Runewords such as:

Black, Fade boosted (Treachery) Smoke, and Nadir can do the trick. That together with a wand with high level life tap charges, blood gloves and belt, 4xPdiamond resist paladin shield, goblin toe, etc. etc. can do the trick, all are easy to come by runewords, crafts, socketeds and uniques, and all can be used to high effectivity, or as ThePoorMan, Iratha's set, which is also great, especially due to the +maximum resistance.

[SeCKSEgai]

Again paladin is a poor base comparison as its got so many tools at its disposal along its auto-hitting smite (4 pdiamond palli shield with inherent resist, do the other classes get such an option? NOPE)

Doing ubers with something other than a smiter is the first step to a challenge - then try skimping on the gear - don't get me wrong, it can be done, but the challenge factor rises when you're not a paladin already, then trying to do it in lower end gear, it's going to be a definite challenge. No more holy shield, no more salvation to stack res or conviction to override meph's, (kickers do get fade and barbs have natural resistance however)no more automatic hits with smite, etc.

My favorite uber build was a melee sorc - watching it solo it all - it's not the most effective but it gets style points and offers something other than brain-numbing gameplay.

[jel]

Doing ubers with something other than a smiter is the first step to a challenge - then try skimping on the gear - don't get me wrong, it can be done, but the challenge factor rises

I agree, but just using harmony (which only a paladin would find unpractical) already takes you a long way, combine it with nadir, get some ar and OW together with a merc with OW (and decripfy through lawbringer, with the act5 mercs) and crushing blow, and have some kind of attack through your skill points that'll finish the job removing the last hit points. Could be:
Amazon: Guided Arrow.
Assassin: Kicks
Barbarian: Can do pretty much the same as a smiter, only with lower effectiveness, but with skills like Howl and Battle Cry with great safety, so doesn't really need a harmony when going low cost.
Druid: Volcano/Tornado
Necromancer: Already have revives, and other minions.
Sorcerer: High damaging spell, Blizzard / Meteor / Fireball / Hydra / Orb / Lightning, you name it, though remember there's a lot of immunities, like Mephisto is immune to lightning and poison.

[AnimeCraze]

Harmony? For revives? You know that if you switch away, the revives pop, right?

[jel]

Harmony? For revives? You know that if you switch away, the revives pop, right?

Yes. The same happens if you go down on 0 charges left.

[AnimeCraze]

I have nothing to say if you wish to case spells with harmony, since I don't find that viable. It's probably better to make passion, slap on dracs and gores and pretend you are a zealot. Anyways, volcano/tornado is no go, since it doesn't do enough damage to negate their regen. (I have not tried that myself, but the calculations show that they regen 16k HP/sec) The typical route is to make a fury druid. Same for sorc spells, unless they are really that strong.

For zon's, I think they managed to get it to work with strafe and hit makes monster flee, but that is probably the hardest one.

[jel]

Anyways, volcano/tornado is no go, since it doesn't do enough damage to negate their regen.

Like I wrote in the first post you relies to, OW.

[ThomasJohnsen]

I agree, but just using harmony (which only a paladin would find unpractical) already takes you a long way, combine it with nadir, get some ar and OW together with a merc with OW (and decripfy through lawbringer, with the act5 mercs) and crushing blow, and have some kind of attack through your skill points that'll finish the job removing the last hit points. Could be:
Amazon: Guided Arrow

I too am a little sceptical about this. Is there any sort of record of someone having tried this? A GA-zon with Harmony and Nadir dosen't seem like a likely candidate to finish off the ubers. Even loaded with OW and CB on the rest of the equipment and a merc equipped with top-notch gear.
Like Anime points out - without some "Hit makes monster flee", you'll likely be swarmed by minions.
I doubt an unsynergized level 20 revive will do the trick.

[AnimeCraze]

Like I wrote in the first post you relies to, OW.How to constantly reapply it? It only fasts for a few seconds. Now only that, your AR is crap, among with the minions, making your arrows impossible to hit. I mean, if it was that easy, the zon forum would not have so much trouble getting a strafer to clear out UT. (in fact, I think the zon was the last class they proved to be UTable)
I too am a little sceptical about this. Is there any sort of record of someone having tried this? A GA-zon with Harmony and Nadir dosen't seem like a likely candidate to finish off the ubers. Even loaded with OW and CB on the rest of the equipment and a merc equipped with top-notch gear.
Like Anime points out - without some "Hit makes monster flee", you'll likely be swarmed by minions.
I doubt an unsynergized level 20 revive will do the trick.A sorc used eternity for revives in 1 of the threads. I would say I don't think Nadir would work since the number of charges are limited. Something like dream would be much better.

[CCCenturion]

Interesting ideas, but I think you guys should be setting your sights higher. As I see it, the main problem isn't that Chaos Tristram is too easy, the main problem is that the entire game is too easy for any decently built character above level 80. What they really need to do is add a fourth difficulty level, and make it insanely difficult, even for level 90+ characters with godly gear. I'm talking hard enough that it could be close to impossible to beat.

Lower characters' resistances by another 100, cut curse duration by another 75% (limiting Life Tap's effectiveness), etc., etc. The thing is, there are really only 3 areas in the game that high level characters can even play: Chaos, Baal runs, and Uber Tristram. None of which even takes very long to run. Why not just add another difficulty setting so that every area in every act is a challenge?

[jel]

How to constantly reapply it?


Like I wrote in the first post you relies to, Merc.

I too am a little sceptical about this. Is there any sort of record of someone having tried this? A GA-zon with Harmony and Nadir dosen't seem like a likely candidate to finish off the ubers. Even loaded with OW and CB on the rest of the equipment and a merc equipped with top-notch gear.
Like Anime points out - without some "Hit makes monster flee", you'll likely be swarmed by minions.
I doubt an unsynergized level 20 revive will do the trick.

I've done it with a sorc, but the effects are the same. There's plenty of charges to CoS down the place for long enough time, and as a GA-zon OW delivery would be a lot smooter, no need for a merc, however removing the last amount of hitpoints will take somewhat longer than a sorc, especially since you can't just switch to a high damage windforce or anything like that.

CoS works much like DV, but isn't recastable before the previous CoS have run out, that makes CoS not nearly as good because during the game you won't stay in an area for the whole period of CoS, which means it should only be used when needed, however in UT you do stay an area for the whole duration and the effect is very similar to that of DV, if some monsters targets you, then a guided arrow with knockback will remove you as the target.

Revives still have plenty of hit points, that's what you need, as they'll often still strike the target, and sure if you've top notch gear you could add conviction on the merc, but it isn't needed as CoS removes a lot of defense by itself.

[ThomasJohnsen]

I've done it with a sorc, but the effects are the same. There's plenty of charges to CoS down the place for long enough time, and as a GA-zon OW delivery would be a lot smooter, no need for a merc, however removing the last amount of hitpoints will take somewhat longer than a sorc, especially since you can't just switch to a high damage windforce or anything like that.

CoS works much like DV, but isn't recastable before the previous CoS have run out, that makes CoS not nearly as good because during the game you won't stay in an area for the whole period of CoS, which means it should only be used when needed, however in UT you do stay an area for the whole duration and the effect is very similar to that of DV, if some monsters targets you, then a guided arrow with knockback will remove you as the target.

Revives still have plenty of hit points, that's what you need, as they'll often still strike the target, and sure if you've top notch gear you could add conviction on the merc, but it isn't needed as CoS removes a lot of defense by itself.

Interesting. Thank you very much for elaborating. I will be on the lookout for interesting posts on how to UT in the future. Seems I had gotten into my head that it had to be CB++. And now I find, that there are more intelligent people out there, who think outside the box.

[jel]

Interesting. Thank you very much for elaborating. I will be on the lookout for interesting posts on how to UT in the future. Seems I had gotten into my head that it had to be CB++. And now I find, that there are more intelligent people out there, who think outside the box.

I can't take credit for the idea, as it isn't mine, I read it on these boards for about 2 years ago in a thread, and tried it. Anyway you'll still be using CB from Urdars/Maulers/Blunderbores.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

I don't see why the problem is UT. When your sitting on a level 80+ character with some of the best gear. Why not make a untwinked single clear character and see how that turns out? Use only white items with no shopped Life Tap wand. There are many ways to make it harder but for as such an old game as this is many people have figured everything out making the game as a whole easy.

[jel]

I don't see why the problem is UT. When your sitting on a level 80+ character with some of the best gear. Why not make a untwinked single clear character and see how that turns out? Use only white items with no shopped Life Tap wand. There are many ways to make it harder but for as such an old game as this is many people have figured everything out making the game as a whole easy.

But that's what is so great about diablo, and many similar games, the whole concept is for you to figure out how to deal with a situation, you don't just storm head fronts into the conviction aura, LE, boss, unless you've prepared yourself with a lot of lightning resist, you figure out a way to deal with the boss/unique without having to go in melee, or if going in melee still where the lightning bolts won't hit you.
Stuff like shopping a life tap wand is something that gives you credit for figuring weaknesses out, life tap wand isn't overpowered as well if you ask me, since the timer often does so you'll have to run away from the battle after your alarm have rung, because the curse is about to run out.
Using only white items, is like saying that you don't accept that you can figure out weaknesses, that you only want the brute force way, which I disagree with, I think it's brilliant that we can figure out combinations of skills that makes an otherwise very dangerous area, much more passable.

However I agree it makes no sense that after you've figured out how to deal with an area that you complain of it being to easy, that's like complaining about yourself for being too smart.

Edit: Just to make my opinion on UT clear, what I think is the problem is the poor AI. AI exploits should never be the way to defeat an opponent, like the moat trick makes mephisto show his true powers as a dummy that'll take it, eventhough he can't fight back. What I believe should be done to solve this problem is the following:
To make an AI that works well game wise, let the computer se the method of test and learn, which means if the computer gets succes it'll note that this particulary tactic worked well and will be more likely to use it again, etc.
Before any major event, such as UT is released into public, some testers have already tried it a couple of times, and thereby improved the AI, when it opens to the public the gamer will now always be a bit behind the more experienced computer and will therefore have a harder time exploiting the AI. Given there exists weaknesses so big that the computer will always loose when exploiting these, then that's the way it's intended to be, because then you don't win due to poor AI, no you win through finding out what weaknessess your opponent has and use them against him. That's how it should be IMHO.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

I was going off the fact that D2 is quite an old game. Most people that play it have played it for a very long time and know the ins and outs of it. I don't see why people are complaining of something being so easy when the way most of us play/played was not how the game was meant to be played. A character with a set up including 10+ high runes, think how long that would actually take to get all of those high runes by actually finding them. Make a character and have it level 80+ in an hour or two, again not really how it was meant to be. People play off of exploits in the game then complain on how the game is too easy...play it how it's meant to be played?

[jel]

I guess I misunderstood your point, sorry about that, it was just when you wrote only white items, then it didn't seem like it was trying to play the game, the way it was intended, but more like trying to make your own challenge, because the game, as it was intended, was to easy. I see from the quote below that I had a misimpresion of your view point.

Most people that play it have played it for a very long time and know the ins and outs of it. I don't see why people are complaining of something being so easy when the way most of us play/played was not how the game was meant to be played. A character with a set up including 10+ high runes, think how long that would actually take to get all of those high runes by actually finding them.

I agree with this, the way Blizzard made the game, one would think that it'd take numerous of playing hours, maybe up to a few years, to solely collect most of the stuff many uses for UT, even when trading it'd still take a very long time, if it wasn't for duping. In that essence it's clear that the player who's gained wealth over the years of course have got so much power that he can assemble the "best there is" itemwise and can of course defeat any challenge the game yields, unless it's impossible for a single player to do so.

What I like about UT is that you can use stuff like life tap wand, revives, crowd control curses, crushing blow, open wounds, etc. to actually defeat the hardest challenge in the game with low budget gear, that way the people who refuses to trade, due to not wanting to be involved in duping can still manage to pull it off, these are often also the people who're much more skilled in their game play and therefore can do with gear that is far from optimal.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

I believe the difference in Single Player and Multi is like many MMORPGs and Single Player RPGs is that with MMO's there is the added bonus of PvP and which ends up being the way you rank your character. In Single player is not so much about who else you can kill but what you can kill and what can kill you.

[SeCKSEgai]

I was going off the fact that D2 is quite an old game. Most people that play it have played it for a very long time and know the ins and outs of it. I don't see why people are complaining of something being so easy when the way most of us play/played was not how the game was meant to be played. A character with a set up including 10+ high runes, think how long that would actually take to get all of those high runes by actually finding them. Make a character and have it level 80+ in an hour or two, again not really how it was meant to be. People play off of exploits in the game then complain on how the game is too easy...play it how it's meant to be played?


That is truth right there - granted I rather grush than play it the way it's meant to be played because I've gone that route enough times already.

But again, I wouldn't complain about it being too easy as I said before. Sure the only time I die is when I lag or my computer shuts down abruptly but being that I die so quickly without taking any action is a testament to what's in store for the common player. Taking a character not built around Uber Tristram combat is a far more harrowing experience - It should be no surprise that a well equipped (gear/skillset) character can successfully complete it solo.

[ertyba]

Hi i dont think the ubers are to easy.

me and my brothers play diablo, and we play for fun and comradship.
We dont max skills or builds, we generally dont do trading, we use equippment self found.
we have maby 2000 life +- after boost.
we find our own keys for tristam, and nithalak can be difficult as well.

And when we do uber tristam, we go 4 players and, yes we die a lot but eventually we concuer them all. And we have done uber tristam like 5 times now, and we get new ideas all time. we use taunt, we use fear howl, we use confusion, we use life tap wands on 2ond wepon slots if we dont have necromancer char. and so on.

We die a lot, but after a time we win, first time in ubertristam was magical it took 1 hour to kill uber tristam. And we did get our fair share of kicks and fun, especialy when uber mephisto has 1 mm life and then kills all in 1 blow.

so i dont think of uber triistam as to easy, just you cheaters with no wp on your charachters that think of uber tristam as easy... well have u ever played those gosu items of yours??? no trade well so fun, get the items the whiole diablo 2 game is great if u pklay it descent withoute reading all walktroughs. withoute max build and read on forum for what to get in trading.....

and if u want a real challange activate chat gem, get 8 player hell game, clear andariel, duriel, mephisto, diablo, baal, clear cow and kill cow king, then go in key areas, 3 key areas, then oppen uber tristam clear all those. go cathredal drop all found heros charms and the torch! (from uber tristam) in the cathredal just in the hidden room, corner above miniboss (go inner cloister wp).
and then go into the secret area (push the wall, jail style).
Bet your mega build wont last there!

Or jsut play hard core. like it says its, HARD CORE, and you cant boost your charather in level, not withoute great risk. And hard core trading is not so availible, so you wont do your uber build there i bet you, there is challange in diablo 2, go hardcore and make solo 2 player game uber tristam......thats challange.

[jel]

Hi i dont think the ubers are to easy.

me and my brothers play diablo, and we play for fun and comradship.
We dont max skills or builds, we generally dont do trading, we use equippment self found.
we have maby 2000 life +- after boost.
we find our own keys for tristam, and nithalak can be difficult as well.

And when we do uber tristam, we go 4 players and, yes we die a lot but eventually we concuer them all. And we have done uber tristam like 5 times now, and we get new ideas all time. we use taunt, we use fear howl, we use confusion, we use life tap wands on 2ond wepon slots if we dont have necromancer char. and so on.

We die a lot, but after a time we win, first time in ubertristam was magical it took 1 hour to kill uber tristam. And we did get our fair share of kicks and fun, especialy when uber mephisto has 1 mm life and then kills all in 1 blow.

so i dont think of uber triistam as to easy, just you cheaters with no wp on your charachters that think of uber tristam as easy... well have u ever played those gosu items of yours??? no trade well so fun, get the items the whiole diablo 2 game is great if u pklay it descent withoute reading all walktroughs. withoute max build and read on forum for what to get in trading.....

It's fine that you're against sharing knowledge with others on how to defeat a certain area, to keep the challenge, but I disagree, let it be up to people if they want to seek out information before they take on the challenge, it should always be up to the individual to make that call.


and if u want a real challange activate chat gem, get 8 player hell game, clear andariel, duriel, mephisto, diablo, baal, clear cow and kill cow king, then go in key areas, 3 key areas, then oppen uber tristam clear all those. go cathredal drop all found heros charms and the torch! (from uber tristam) in the cathredal just in the hidden room, corner above miniboss (go inner cloister wp).
and then go into the secret area (push the wall, jail style).
Bet your mega build wont last there!

It's not nice spreading false rumours, your first part was fair, your second a bit harsh, but this is something that you risk getting flamed for, if you really believe this works, then you should prove it, as it's no general knowledge, and hasn't been confirmed in the public anywhere as far as I know.


Or jsut play hard core. like it says its, HARD CORE, and you cant boost your charather in level, not withoute great risk. And hard core trading is not so availible, so you wont do your uber build there i bet you, there is challange in diablo 2, go hardcore and make solo 2 player game uber tristam......thats challange.

Hardcore is fine, but it doesn't mean it's a challenge, what I like about hardcore is that if you take it serious you will happen to come in situations where you can't just charge in, get smashed, and think oh well, I'll get that corpse and do the same approach again, there you will more often be fleeing a bit back and finding a better position, not taking everything at once, however unless you've some good friends to play with, public hardcore on b.net can be a pain due to tppk'ers.

Many do ubers on hardcore, and you don't need any kind of "godly" gear to do it, you don't need a team either, but I believe you when you claim it's fun being 4 people, I believe so, I think it's often the first moment of victory, the moment where you defeat something you've no clue on how you actually defeated in the first place, that makes it really shine, however that moment would have been so much better in my opinion had it been on hardcore in the first place, as there it's not like "oh hey I got smashed, but I'll just grab the body and be back up at you guys", because then the game can't be lost unless you get bored, and if you get bored there isn't any fun in it.

[mephiztophelez]

and if u want a real challange activate chat gem.....

BWAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAA...... did you know that poison damage cancels out critical strike?

i laugh in your general direction, nubcaek.

[ertyba]

jel

Have u tried the new area?

Mephiz

Have u tried the new area?

[jel]

jel

Have u tried the new area?

Mephiz

Have u tried the new area?

There's something essentiel you've mistaken there, when someone makes a claim it's not up to the opposite party to disprove the claim, it's up to the claimer to convince the other parties through something that makes the claim so likely to be true that others will bother to try themselves.

If you've interest in sharing information, then make your claims valid, through screenshots or whatever means may be appropiate for the given person who's to be convinced of your claim to be true.
However if that's not your interest, then your claims are really not anything more than spam, as so is any claim that's not backed up with documentation for validation.

This is somewhat equal to write stuff like the Earth is flat, and then ask people to go to the moon to check for themselves.

To say it short, it's up to you to at least try to convince others that your claims are true, otherwise it's nothing else than spam.

[mephiztophelez]

jel

Have u tried the new area?

Mephiz

Have u tried the new area?

either you are claiming to be part of the 1.13 patch beta, or you are talking out your poochute.

i doubt the former and believe the latter is the case.

believe me, if this alleged "new area" you speak of actually exists, then i would have heard about it long ago.

[SeCKSEgai]

Hi i dont think the ubers are to easy.

me and my brothers play diablo, and we play for fun and comradship.
We dont max skills or builds, we generally dont do trading, we use equippment self found.
we have maby 2000 life +- after boost.
we find our own keys for tristam, and nithalak can be difficult as well.

And when we do uber tristam, we go 4 players and, yes we die a lot but eventually we concuer them all. And we have done uber tristam like 5 times now, and we get new ideas all time. we use taunt, we use fear howl, we use confusion, we use life tap wands on 2ond wepon slots if we dont have necromancer char. and so on.

We die a lot, but after a time we win, first time in ubertristam was magical it took 1 hour to kill uber tristam. And we did get our fair share of kicks and fun, especialy when uber mephisto has 1 mm life and then kills all in 1 blow.

so i dont think of uber triistam as to easy, just you cheaters with no wp on your charachters that think of uber tristam as easy... well have u ever played those gosu items of yours??? no trade well so fun, get the items the whiole diablo 2 game is great if u pklay it descent withoute reading all walktroughs. withoute max build and read on forum for what to get in trading.....

and if u want a real challange activate chat gem, get 8 player hell game, clear andariel, duriel, mephisto, diablo, baal, clear cow and kill cow king, then go in key areas, 3 key areas, then oppen uber tristam clear all those. go cathredal drop all found heros charms and the torch! (from uber tristam) in the cathredal just in the hidden room, corner above miniboss (go inner cloister wp).
and then go into the secret area (push the wall, jail style).
Bet your mega build wont last there!

Or jsut play hard core. like it says its, HARD CORE, and you cant boost your charather in level, not withoute great risk. And hard core trading is not so availible, so you wont do your uber build there i bet you, there is challange in diablo 2, go hardcore and make solo 2 player game uber tristam......thats challange.

I've got over 80 runs solo in uber trist, all successful. I stated before that it's challenging enough for a great deal of people, you yourself provide a fine example. Not only do you explain how challenging it is for you and your team, but you also believe that anyone with the capacity to solo such an area is "cheating" as you believe it's not possible.

Using a kicker, It takes me around 5-10 min on average to completely finish off all 3 bosses, depending on pulls and the like - if I had a smiter instead it be even faster since my main attack wouldn't be ar dependant. (But I never did like paladins as there are too many running around as is anyway.) If I "cheated" to get my gear instead of actually playing the game, why would I bother? If something can be exploited to such a point, there's no reason to play as that would mean the game is far too broken to be enjoyable.

People who create characters to solo uber trist are people that have already conquered all the difficulties that the regular diablo 2 game has to offer. When fighting Hell Baal becomes routine and not a life and death struggle, you eventually want more. I find it funny that you proclaim anyone who can play the game better than you is "cheating" in your eyes simply because you can't fathom the possibility that there's room to improve on your part.

When I first played diablo 2 years ago, I had seen maybe one enigma and lost a soj trying to trade for it after getting scammed. I never played on Hell difficulty because it was too hard for me. This ladder I managed to equip 3 or four characters with enigma and well beyond that. I spend much time on any difficulty other than Hell unless I'm muling something. I've even killed the diablo clone 3 times by myself and with less than optimal clone killing builds.

If you have trouble with something where others succeed, its better to look within oneself and see how you can improve instead of blaming everyone else.

[Barloc]

Could make the three ubers more build specific to encourage diversity and (one could wish, cooperation)

*For example, one of the ubers could be made summoners, having very powerful single target attacks which would be dangerous for anyone trying to take them out alone.

*Another uber could be made specifically to be best beaten by a melee char, having unbreakable elemental resists and skills that gives summoners problems (such as AoE stun or fear)

*And then the last uber could be made for casters, high elemental resists instead of elemental immunities, throw in physical immunity and some attack that forces the attacker to stay mobile and let casters have a go in UT.

This idea is so simple, and so awesome! go go co-op!

[BAMFSpecialOps]

Could add in an extra area in 1.13(if they are adding anything) that sits like the dungeon runs we used to do on D1. Once you enter the cave you do not leave. If a player uses a TP then once they get to town the TP closes and it starts over, sort of like the ancients. Each area gets harder and harder starting with a cave full of random minions leading up to a decently strong boss. Killing that boss allows you to go to the next level, etc, etc, etc. Make it a 1 drop final boss, meaning no other monster in the area drops a single thing along the way so there is no farming the first set of minions.

[ertyba]

segegai you noob

Well wow you are so impressive. So many enigmas.... I have played diablo 2 since it was released.. back in 1998 and still remember diablo 2 withoute the expansion, still remember diablo withoute skill tree boosting ( etc fanatisicm withoute dmg , hammerdins hammer withoute boost from other skill trees ).
The game itself as it is now is very good, they have done well in making diablo 2 all round dificulty and playability. diablo 2 is a fantastic game and uber tristam is not to easy, in fact the whole game is not to easy, hell mode is not to easy, its well rounded for gamers. Of course for noobs any game is always too easy, with maphack why light radius??? oh i see the game is dark withoute hacks?? Eaven other cheats that many people nowdays use like bots for leveling your new charather and so on.
Or why not going naked all time, thats noobs.
All those people are noobs even complaining aboute games being to easy, man i am so fed up with noobs, naked noobs, enigma noobs teleporting everywhere.

you on the other side with your kikcsins hammadins zerkers or whatever are true boring, it must be boring to get like 10 enigmas on your new ladder char that is naked and have 5000 life with your nec bvb barbarain.
man play the game for fun, have u ever gone to diablo or duriel in normal mode, and killed him.... its 100 times harder than in hell mode. Or do you on yor new charathers just boost away to hell`and come into games as a level 3 man shouting free runs??
Well if answer is yes u are a noob.
You will never think a game is fun or challenging because you are a fraud, look inside yourself and see the true noob.


BAMFSpecialOps
Yea man i really hope that they do that, man what an idea. the level thingie. man i really hope they do something big, like some taste of diablo 3 maby. . like yea, some good smarm things with the charm from uber tristam.

Did you all know, the 4rth charather in D3 will be a flayer, blowdart midget from act 3!

[ThomasJohnsen]

segegai you noob

Well wow you are so impressive. So many enigmas.... I have played diablo 2 since it was released.. back in 1998 and still remember diablo 2 withoute the expansion, still remember diablo withoute skill tree boosting ( etc fanatisicm withoute dmg , hammerdins hammer withoute boost from other skill trees ).
The game itself as it is now is very good, they have done well in making diablo 2 all round dificulty and playability. diablo 2 is a fantastic game and uber tristam is not to easy, in fact the whole game is not to easy, hell mode is not to easy, its well rounded for gamers. Of course for noobs any game is always too easy, with maphack why light radius??? oh i see the game is dark withoute hacks?? Eaven other cheats that many people nowdays use like bots for leveling your new charather and so on.
Or why not going naked all time, thats noobs.
All those people are noobs even complaining aboute games being to easy, man i am so fed up with noobs, naked noobs, enigma noobs teleporting everywhere.

you on the other side with your kikcsins hammadins zerkers or whatever are true boring, it must be boring to get like 10 enigmas on your new ladder char that is naked and have 5000 life with your nec bvb barbarain.
man play the game for fun, have u ever gone to diablo or duriel in normal mode, and killed him.... its 100 times harder than in hell mode. Or do you on yor new charathers just boost away to hell`and come into games as a level 3 man shouting free runs??
Well if answer is yes u are a noob.
You will never think a game is fun or challenging because you are a fraud, look inside yourself and see the true noob.

For those keeping count, that was 9 uses of the word noob :yes:.

And no explanation about that socalled secret area, so I guess Mephi was right - nothing but hot air out of an opening not found in the head.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

Well at least he could spell noob right >.>

I gave up reading that about 3 lines in...

[KremBanan]

I have played diablo 2 since it was released.. back in 1998

If you are going to try to look or pretend to be vet, atleast get the facts straight! You noob!

[mephiztophelez]

so I guess Mephi was right - nothing but hot air out of an opening not found in the head.

:thumbup::cloud9:

[ancalagon]

Ertyba, Diablo 2 wasnt released in 1998, it was released in 2000 or 2001, not sure but it was one of those. Bottom line,not 1998. And why call a person noob a 100 times and then post a fake new uber area and say Uber Tristram is easy only if youre cheating. Good smiters can kill all 3 Ubers in less than a minute, hell even my cheap geared smiter with a life tap wand takes less than 2 minutes on a good run. And kickers can take anywhere from 2 to 4 minutes. That is all without dying, except the odd crappy run. Believe me, Ive done UT many many times .... And so what if the game is populated with runewords and powerful synergies? Seems like everyone is happy. If you like classic, fine, Im sure classic is a nice enough challenge, but why all this hatred towards the really good LOD players, the so called noobs?

OH yeah one other thing .... DID YOU REALLY SAY ''With maphack why use light radius?'' LOFL Who the hell uses light radius ?!? What a waste of a modifier, it even ruins some good rare items sometimes .... i wonder what the light radius breakpoint is ! LOL

[jel]

I think it'd be nice if we could come back to topic, as it seems the rant against ertyba, how justified it ever may be, have taken a large part of the threat, and it's not fair towards the OP if you ask me.