new to 1.12: PVM Barb Gear Q's

[buckies]

Hi there,

Used to play back in 1.09, and have decided to start up a 1.12 barb, having considering all the new items and monsters out there.

The ideal build would be a WW titan PVM, that can deliver maximum damage to monsters while having sufficient life and leech to survive.

I've read the whirlwindarian guide and the new items, and had the following questions.

1) What is best for to use for dual BOTD? It appears that dual Berserker axes would be best, as they have range 3 but a better damage output. I assume that dual BOTD is better than 1 for maximum WW killing speed, since you'll be hitting twice as often and reaping the benefits of the stat boost from both weapons.

2) Is SoE of verdungo's the better belt choice for a Titan build (assuming both are 15% DR?). Dungo's has the +vit but SoE has the additional leech.

3) Are vamps or steelrend preferable for Titan build? Go with the leech or go with the +str and CB %? Would the CB add to that potentially used for GoreRiders or GoblinToe?

3) What boots are best if highlords + raven + carrion is the accessory combo? I'm assuming the 15% DS on Goreriders wouldn't be added to the DS on the Highlords, in which case the 25% CB on the Goblin Toe would be preferable?

4) After gear considerations, what is the bet mix of vit to life for a PVM Titan build. Is there a rule of thumb of minimum amount of life (factoring in BO) that such a build would need to survive, and that thereafter all stats could be pumped into STR?

Any advice or recommendations would be much appreciated. Thanks.

[buckies]

actually, on consideration, BoTD + Beast is the better dual zerk axe combo, for the fanatacism gains. If this were used, then SoE is probably the better belt for the leech.

[Jednowlosy]

And Grief >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> BoTD.

[mystified]

its pvm guys. grief zerker or beast = loads of repair + gold for repair = not a pvm material.

botd+ grief is nice when u go sword (zweihandr + botd cb)

later when i get back home

[Jednowlosy]

if the weapon isn't superior, repair costs aren't that severe, nothing a good player can't handle. Besides, you can always repair those with crap runes ;)

If it's that much of a problem, double grief pb solves. And looks much better than lollipop zerker anyway.

Double grief seems to be the fastest killer too. I mean, with beast, my killing speed is much slower, despite all the theory that beast/grief or beast/botd are the best (maybe for pvp, but for pvm.. nah)

[mystified]

@ OP//
as mentioned grief is superior to BOTD, except it doesn't have leech. Hence many follow grief + botd set up for damage AND leech.
as Jednowlosy pointed, it isn't as damaging as dual grief, which also has nice mods like DS and ITD, but it is down to getting good dual leech AR ring.

Here is what I used last season for pvm. Not a titan build tho i wished I did - since I ended up with a lot of life SCs which is needed for titan

Helm - arreat ptopaz
armor - enigma
glove - craft blood (leech and CB)
belt - SoE
boots - Gores
Ammy - rare barb 10FCR + mana leech
weapon - botd CB, grief Zwei (<<cheap repair and range 3)
Ring - rare dual leech (6/6)
ring 2 - raven (appreciated against phys immue with cold dmg)

it was mf-er, but i didn't spend points in FI, wish i did. So my swap consisted of 2 wizzy for faster tele.

If i were to make it again, I will give him arach instead of SoE and some FCR from ammy and ring, with swap isted ali/CS

As for stat on titan..well go full STR, and keep life SCs in inventory. Around 3K life is more than enough, which isn't hard with base stat.

Also DS stack (gore + grief + highlord if you go this way)
but DS and CS don't stack same way.

PS - for a pure Titan, you will need DR until you have respectably high life, i didn't cuz I was vita and no DR didn't cause a problem in pvm

EDIT*
@Jednowlosy// yeah but grief pb looks so...***. To me, it looks like barb waving magical girl's wand for some reason

[buckies]

Ahhh. Thanks for the responses guys. I guess the ITD benefits also mean that with dual grief zerker axes I could simply have enough dexterity to wear my gear and not have any AR concerns. True?

How much leech would you recommended if I were to go dual grief titan? I guess SoE is a must for the belt with the DR and life leech, and I could cham the Arreats and then replace a ravenfrost with a dual leech or life leech ring. That would give me around 20% LL, which should suffice for a titan who would only aim to have around 3K life and everything else in STR.

Given this, would steelrend be the best glove choice (apart from LoH for demons)?

so, ideal gear would be:

helm - arreat cham
armor - fortitude
glove - steelrend of LoH
belt - SoE
boots - Gores
ammy - highlords
weapon - dual grief
ring1 - rare dual leech (6/6)
ring2 - another leecher (6 LL + res or stats)

Any further advice would be much appreciated, as I'm still getting my head around all the new runewords and gear from the 1.09 days.

[mystified]

rare leech can spawn with likes of 8/6 iirc.
crafted blood can go higher.
you would want raven in some situation to deal with cold enchanted phys immunes. And AR.
Imo crafted blood > those gloves since it gives life, LL, and CB at same time plus added bonus of whatever. (stats, res)
Highlord is questionable. Need it or not need it, althought that 3x% DS is nice, I usually stick with rare ammys or metalgrid or crescent moon for leech when i am deperate.

I dunno..I am not sure how much mana you will be able to leech back but just 6 ml is not enugh imo

[Jednowlosy]

Dungo > SoE
Steelrend needs too much STR for relatively little they offer for a PvM chars
Consider Angelic amu+ring before you get fat with sharp charms of vita (which are rare and awfuly expensive), otherwise you will have trouble hitting anything. LoH is imo best for PvM. Crafted bloods may be an answer, too - but I still prefer LoH because I want more damage. DAMAGE is what fills my heart with joy - when barb kills everything he touches with his whirlwind, THAT's fun.

Later on you may use highlords (the 3x deadly strike is a big damage increase, +1 skills always welcome) and ravens (which conveniently comes with +AR) and use a blessed aim merc.

Don't forget demon limb - enchant charges are godsend.

All of this because barb has AR issues. A really "fat" barb will reach 10k+ AR without blessed aim merc or angelic set though, but a full inventory of 9/70/40+ aren't going to happen fast. ;)

I believe blessed aim merc + raven + highlords offers more damage than angelic + might merc, with considerable AR, because deadly strike >>>>> another +% dam bonus (you already have STR bonus, WW or frenzy +% dam bonus and fortitude +300% bonus anyway, and if rich, extra +300% from pride runeword on your merc) You have to get sufficient AR. 10k is ok for pvm - you may want to put 1 point into battle cry, too (around -60% armor of act bosses and ubers is welcome). However, I may be wrong - since you already have great DS with 2x20% from grief + 15% from gores.

Cham'ed Arreats - I'd rather go for um'ed arreats, you can never go wrong with more resists, or with a 40/9 jewel for more fun if resis are maxed under LR or so. Resis would be great if coming from your rare/crafted dual leech, btw.

Against ubers, some +40+ % lightning resist charms aren't a bad idea, pre-buff with fade is important, and wisp projector instead of dual leech is good (you can't leech of ubers anyway). If you want to kill mephi close range and not get instagibbed by stacked charged bolt, max LR under conviction is simply comfortable.

You can also consider a lacerator if your AR is big enough to support it - makes killing hell ball and mini ubers way faster - you amp them, switch back to griefs and hand their butts to them.

Don't be afraid of repair costs of BA. If not superior, it's around 10k - something you get after 20 seconds of play, and you have to repair them like once per 2 games. If superior, it's like 400k - but superior BAs are usually dupped, so stay away from that stuff if you want to feel legit. ;) Besides, 15% ed is NOT worth the fuss, as it adds so little dam it's not even worth considering. BA is worth it over PB despite stupid looks because of higher range, which means easier hitting with WW - simply convenient for PvM.

You don't need extremely high LL - Tbh LL coming from your ring (6-8%) is sufficient because with fortitude armor, maxed shout and leveled Iron skin, you will have ~20k armor with 6k life, which is huge enough to feel comfortable. If you really MUST have a high leech, SoE and blood gloves will give you all you need.

[buckies]

Thanks again guys. Wealth of knowledge on this forum and plenty to consider.

Still don't get why I need any AR considerations with the Ignore Targets Defense on the Griefs (unless ITD behaviour has changed considerably between versions)?

[Jednowlosy]

ITD doesn't work against uniques, super uniques and act bosses, those who are the most dangerous, so to speak.

[mystified]

blessed aim is not my recoomendation as ar bonus is percentage - u need good base ar to benefit.
rather might with infinity would be better as this give a lot of -def%, which i considder to be better.
btw ar bonus from ba will incrtease cth by around1 or 2%, which is good but not best.
i have not done full cacl, but -def% is usually better complete with 40% cb as well

[Jednowlosy]

Infinity merc = no pride merc ;)

[mystified]

lv20 conc (perf pride) adds 345% damage. Hwile this looks nice on the paper, it is no good if you can't hit things with it.
Lv12 inifi gives -83% defence.
Using example from SC:

I have an AR of 10,000. I am lvl85 (attacker) and the Defender is lvl90 with a defense of 5000

= 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
= 100 * 10000/ (10000 + 5000) * 2 * 85/ ( 85 + 90)
= 1000000/(10000 + 5000) * 2 * 85/(85 + 90)
= 1000000/(15000) * 2 * 85/(175)
= 1000000/(15000) * 2 * 85/(175)
= 66.667 * 2 * 85/175
= 133.333 * 85/175
= 11333.333/175
= 64.761% chance to hit.

now with -83 def % from infi,



= 100 * AR / (AR + DR) * 2 * alvl / (alvl + dlvl)
= 100 * 10000/ (10000 + 850) * 2 * 85/ ( 85 + 90)
= 1000000/(10000 + 850) * 2 * 85/(85 + 90)
= 1000000/(10850) * 2 * 85/(175)
= 1000000/(10850) * 2 * 85/(175)
= 92.1659 * 2 * 85/175
= 89.5% chance to hit.


which is just so much better. this is essentially increasing your damage output.

While that extra ED is nice from pride, the added damage isn't so good imo thanks to pretty all monsters having 50% DR, and that ED is added with other off-weapon ED, resulting damage increase by another 1000~ ish. When you go titan, this is negligible.

Plus (most importantly), i think pride sucks :D
It just doesn't add much of benefit for me, so I don't like it. I hate my merc doing crappy damage :)

[Jednowlosy]

True. However, a ordinary (not Titan) barb can reach 20k AR and more without bigger sacrifices, which enough to focus on damage.

I see your point though. Pride+BA may be simply a worse call than Might+Infinity. There is one thing to add here though - Mercs without eni often get lost and it takes time for aura to activate on creatures too, reducing your killing speed (BA has huge radius and you don't have to wait).

[mystified]

yeah act 2 mercs are dumb as hell!
i was using them for frenzier with eni. eventually swapped it with reapers ba as well for ar ;)

[Kerr]

Question, could dual Griefs work well on a consecrate barb? Would running 2x angelic rings + angelic neck less be good enough to fix the AR issues

Lastly, has anyone else tried going with trang gloves or using bramble to take advantage of the seemingly perma-venom (and poison debuff) that accompanies grief?