How important is defense in pvp?

[Tamer]

How important is defense in pvp? Whats an acceptable defense to have as a melee'r?

please advise
Tamer

[mystified]

def is only important vs melee.
acceptable def is depends on char but 20k would be minimum with non-eth bugges gears on barb, simila 20k ish on a zelot. and we don't consider smite a melee :)

[SeCKSEgai]

The importance of defense varies upon your opponents. Against casters, it has no real effect as those attacks aren't affect by ar.

Against melee-based builds, it makes a huge difference. My ghost hates fighting high def targets, as I often have to adjust my gear setup and tactics to compensate for the extra ar needed.

My ghost is primary melee, but her def is pretty low, your class also plays a huge role in what def to shoot for. Palli's and barbs can hit well over 30k for example.

[mephiztophelez]

against AR based opponents (who will probbly be cranking 15k+ar at a minimum), def only starts to appear to really help once you're cracking 25k.

unless you're a BvB or a Zeal v Zeal build, defence probably won't ever be a major issue.

in any case, high defense builds are pretty well limited to pallys and barbs who have skills to boost defence.

[jel]

in any case, high defense builds are pretty well limited to pallys and barbs who have skills to boost defence.

Sorcs can go pretty high as well, not nearly as high as the others, but 20k is certainly achieveable.

[SeCKSEgai]

I don't think I've ever seen a 20k def sorc, and my feeling is that in order to hit that, they had to sacrifice in many other areas, nullifying the bonus of added def.

[jel]

I don't think I've ever seen a 20k def sorc, and my feeling is that in order to hit that, they had to sacrifice in many other areas, nullifying the bonus of added def.

Certainly they would, my CoS, CP, Blizzard, Golem sorc did very well in pvm, she had 15k defense, focused on max block and a lot on defense, she'd be extremely safe to play, eventhough she used a stone armor, many of her items could roll much higher defense. She did of course use that level 12 cold armor spell.

[KillaMike]

Certainly they would, my CoS, CP, Blizzard, Golem sorc did very well in pvm, she had 15k defense, focused on max block and a lot on defense, she'd be extremely safe to play, eventhough she used a stone armor, many of her items could roll much higher defense. She did of course use that level 12 cold armor spell.

it would be easier and better to use es in this case, because you can tank EVERYTHING for long enought to tele away, and with huge blue bubble with 3k+ you do tank EVERYTHING.


only concurn of yours are: Uber Mephie, Mana Burns. other wise, even Big Uber / Clone Diablo cant do much to hurt you.

any way, defence aint very importent IMO unless bvb or SvS (smiter) orthere wiss keep it ~ 1k, you dont really need more.

Mike

[mystified]

svs don't matter as they ignore defence.
bvb and zvz are about only ones

PS: mike u still have bad english ;)

[KillaMike]

svs don't matter as they ignore defence.
bvb and zvz are about only ones

PS: mike u still have bad english ;)

zvz? java vs java?

yeah, i know, i wan that oword claaed, udv? ar samma

mIkE

[Uncle_Mike]

zvz?

Zeal vs. Zeal.

PS.

You're not funny.

[jel]

it would be easier and better to use es in this case, because you can tank EVERYTHING for long enought to tele away, and with huge blue bubble with 3k+ you do tank EVERYTHING.

Too many monsters with mana burn ability, and I never got enough + skills on top of a +3 ES memory stick for +7 ES to make it go to 40. She worked very well the way I build her, and she didn't have to have an inventory full of charms, or have any kind of expensive equipment.

[KillaMike]

Too many monsters with mana burn ability, and I never got enough + skills on top of a +3 ES memory stick for +7 ES to make it go to 40. She worked very well the way I build her, and she didn't have to have an inventory full of charms, or have any kind of expensive equipment.

i am sorry, but i thought we were saying PVP not PVM , if PVM i have to agree, way too many mana burning monsters, they are very annoying, especially Gloams. but if you are using this sorc for rush, she canstand EVERYTHING, beside andariels posion, ( then you have to have res -,- )

OT

does es have 75% res by default?

/OT

[jel]

i am sorry, but i thought we were saying PVP not PVM , if PVM i have to agree, way too many mana burning monsters, they are very annoying, especially Gloams. but if you are using this sorc for rush, she canstand EVERYTHING, beside andariels posion, ( then you have to have res -,- )

OT

does es have 75% res by default?

/OT

No it has 0% resist, it takes full damage (though telekinesis helps a lot, so not full damage actually) from any kind of attack, which goes through calculations, the 5% that goes through (assuming level 40 ES) will be further reduced by your resist.

Having no resists with ES doesn't make much sense as you could just as well have 95% resist then, however what makes good sense with ES, is to add ~30 idr and imr to your setup, which would mean you won't take any damage at all from most targets, and yes of course have ~95% poison resist + poison length reduced by 75% is important.

For pvp, I recall mcm writing at some time, that the only kind of sorc he believed would stand a chance against his BvC would be a fire sorc focusing a lot on defense. I assumed that meant max block and defense in the area where his hit checks wouldn't hit nearly as often, I don't know if that would mean the sorc wouldn't be stunlocked in enough frames for making a direct shooting impossible, whereby the sorc may would have had a slim chance of actually winning the face vs face battle, though still sounds unlikely.

[KillaMike]

the only annoying barbs that could win me, was when i got bored and just stood there for 6 wws, other wise, those jumping BvC are anoying, thats all, with 118 fcr, i got plenty of chance to tele away, and if he does hit me, i got anouther def, wait till my mana reg, and i can take another ww without hasle. i honestly havent been defited by any babrs vs Sparklingz (char name: es/boltress/light), if he is so good, i would like to see his acc name or something ( no trolling or faming, just rubing face in durt ( joke ) )

any way, i do not see point of having defence on other chars btw: 1k - 15k, if you cant hit 15, dont bother going def IMO

because monsters starting to miss you (lowish ones on hell ) after 10k, and in cs after 15k.

Mike

[jel]

the only annoying barbs that could win me, was when i got bored and just stood there for 6 wws, other wise, those jumping BvC are anoying, thats all, with 118 fcr, i got plenty of chance to tele away, and if he does hit me, i got anouther def, wait till my mana reg, and i can take another ww without hasle. i honestly havent been defited by any babrs vs Sparklingz (char name: es/boltress/light), if he is so good, i would like to see his acc name or something ( no trolling or faming, just rubing face in durt ( joke ) )

any way, i do not see point of having defence on other chars btw: 1k - 15k, if you cant hit 15, dont bother going def IMO

because monsters starting to miss you (lowish ones on hell ) after 10k, and in cs after 15k.

Mike

If you're having an easy time with BvC's then maybe we should duel at some time, if you're on Europe, I'll probably have my own BvC up again some time during the ladder or something.

Otherwise write MCM on youtube and you'll quickly find the info you need. I think he's on one of the US servers btw.

[KillaMike]

If you're having an easy time with BvC's then maybe we should duel at some time, if you're on Europe, I'll probably have my own BvC up again some time during the ladder or something.

Otherwise write MCM on youtube and you'll quickly find the info you need. I think he's on one of the US servers btw.

i am on EuScL, i would love to duel you ( i never said easy, just time consuming )

my acc in location

Mike

[mystified]

ES don't have a *res'
but telekinesis work as a synergy.

initially it is 1:2 ratio (damage:bana burnt) for ES absorbed damage. So basically if u take one damage, your mana burns for two.
you can think of this as -100% res

Per skilll point spent in TK reduces mana burnt per dmg by 6.25% from -100% (figurative speaking here thought this would be asier to make one understand)

So at lv 16 TK, this will give 1:1 ratio for mana burnt per damage taken. Hence why some people say spend only 16 TK.

however, less dmg take the better, so full 20 TK will give 1: 0.75 ratio of damage:mana burnt ratio.

[KillaMike]

i know about ratio, i just wounder about 1 more thing: def rating. i do know that i "absorb" elemental dmg (beside psn) whant about physical? does my armour comes before ES? after es? during es? and if so, whats es defence rating?

[SeCKSEgai]

It depends on the attack, if its physical it needs to check against def and blocking to see if the attack makes it through, once it does, then its processed through ES. As for elemental or magic, they go straight to ES as def doesn't apply.

[jel]

i am on EuScL, i would love to duel you ( i never said easy, just time consuming )

my acc in location

Mike

Great, I'll contact you when he's up and running again :)

[rickster]

Anyone know how powerful the cold armors are?

I have a dual dream sorc with lvl 15 shiver armor (from my memory staff), I have zero points into cold mastery. I've dueled a few pally zealots where I just stand still while they attack me and they will die after a few zeals. Now I don't know if that is because of holy shock + thunderstorm, but it looked like shiver armor was doing significant damage. I also realize they could have very terrible gear and resists. Though this old video does lend credence to my experience.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhT2XFPvVEM

Seems interesting.

Maybe a vita build with frozen orb?
Or perhaps a dual dream build, as zeal + massive damage puts people into hit recovery animation while you're still able to attack. I'm guessing dropping 300 into dex would give you some sick defense. Though you will have to do a ton of prebuffing.
Or how about the razor edge unique elite tomahawk axe, maybe this is the first build that has a good use for it?

[KillaMike]

i am very interested in that build, i wounder what offencevie skill with that build? orb? :S

any way, did tthat sorc MAX all of armnour tree?

Mike

[rickster]

If you read the comments, he maxed all the cold armors and cold mastery

So you have very little wiggle room for other skills unless you cut back on some of the cold armors.

Orb looks like the logical choice, but i'm guessing that is boring to play. Spam orb, a timered skill, while you're standing still. A lot of the shards will miss. Using a Doom weapon would be pretty hilarious though.

I'm thinking this as a tentative build

nightwing
metalgrid/tals
stone in archon/sacred armor (eth zod valor?)
doom
storm shield
dungos
soj/bk
upped bloodfists
eth treks
cold lifers/fhr
life/def scs

[KillaMike]

If you read the comments, he maxed all the cold armors and cold mastery

So you have very little wiggle room for other skills unless you cut back on some of the cold armors.

Orb looks like the logical choice, but i'm guessing that is boring to play. Spam orb, a timered skill, while you're standing still. A lot of the shards will miss. Using a Doom weapon would be pretty hilarious though.

I'm thinking this as a tentative build

nightwing
metalgrid/tals
stone in archon/sacred armor (eth zod valor?)
doom
storm shield
dungos
soj/bk
upped bloodfists
eth treks
cold lifers/fhr
life/def scs

i just thought of something, what about smiters? with they noobish grief?