How Can I handle Iron Maiden with Frenzy Barb

[donshi]

Mainly a problem with hunting Izual. Should I rely on my faith merc?

I imagine PI to be equally annoying considering I won't be using AMP.

I don't really want to waste points in berserk if there are better options.

helm: arreat's face + 15ias // Guillames on switch for CB
armor: COH
belt: Nos Coil
boots: goreriders
gloves: draculs
amulet: highlords
rings: Ravenfrost + Life, AR, stats, and res
primary: ebotz
secondary: edeathz

Suggestions please :)

[Shocker]

switch to dual azurewraths, you'll need to swing quite a few times under iron maiden to die~

[TopHatCat64]

I'd just make a Passion weapon, put it in your offhand and voila, you have access to Berserk without spending any points. Just stick something damaging in your main hand. It looks like you have the means to acquire something powerful.

[frenzy kujaku]

1) Passion: I have tested that weapon in an ettin axe (note: highest damage single handed axe) on my frenzy barb off hand and eBOTDz on my primary. I have tested zeal and berserk on it. I thought it was a great idea at first until I tested in Chaos San, against ubers themselves and against immune physical in uberland after the ubers are dead .

I nearly died in Chaos Sanc because

a) Berserk gives you 0 defense,

b) this 0 defense lasts seemingly an eternity (2.7 seconds) because it is only 1 pt berserk,

c) I have 33% DR which did meant that I took hits real bad and I couldn't leech my life back. Hence, in your setup, COH 8% + Fade treachery 15% DR only gives you 23% DR which means that you will be taking hits worse than I did.

d) Lastly, the damage on Passion is low compared to other weapons and I found myself taking a relative long time taking on immune physical or with IM on me against mobs. This meant that against swarms of monsters with IM on, I am taking longer to kill, taking more damage, unable to lifetap/leech my life back, hence translating to coming close to death many times with that eBOTDz/PassionEttin setup. Considering that OK in Izural aren't the only ones you face and that the spearwomen deal a hefty damage with their jabs when you have 0 defense and low DR and unable to get life back, this weapon is, in my opinion, not suitable for frenzy barbs.

2) AzureWrath: Considering that you are an axe wielder as I am, I will think that this is a possible alternative. As noted by Shocker, since damage is low, we probably will not die to IM and hopefully, able to lifetap back our lives to compensate the damage.

3) Howl: Honestly I don't think there is any way for melee char to deal with IM effectively and having to crowd control at the same time. In comparison to spellcasters such as hammerdins/Windy/trappers/etc, IM has always been a bane to melee chars. I have considered other weapons such as famine which deals elemental damage but that does not negate the IM effect on me. My strategy in dealing with IM is simply HOWL and STOP FRENZYING. What I do is, once I touch down in Izural's base, I howl as I go along, run through all of them when I am cursed with IM or target only the casting OK carefully when I am not cursed with IM (meaning, watching for any visual and audio clue of IM casting. IM has a different sound from the rest of the curses. I also do 'control burst of clicking' and not the 'hold on to my click all the way' type). Howling prevents swarming, hence I take only damage from OK casters, which is minimal damage. Running away after howling and with Fade on me, it helps to shorten the duration of the IM. The only problem I faced was when I have to cross bridges and they jam pack the area. That is when mis clicking happens and I would die of IM. I have noticed that even if I stop clicking, frenzy animation doesn't stop until the whole sequence is completed.

If you have enigma, you can tp past these chokepoints and get to Izural. Howl the others away and frenzy the OK casters in controlled burst only since they are not affected by howl. In this regard, barbs are better off than pure smiters or smite/chargers, since we can howl and run off without being swarmed, whereas smiters will be swarmed and cannot get out unless they smite, which translate to dying under IM. Because accidents still happen no matter how careful I am when up against OK, I chose a more realistic approach to miniuber hunting. I built a kick/blade fury/death trap sin hybrid according to JanusJones guide for such a purpose. Equipped with enigma and LWpb, I have zero problems with IM now. That, however, belongs to the assassin forum.

If you are already thinking that frenzy barbs are a goner against IM, read further.

4) Dual Throw Lacerators: There is 1 way to deal with IM sub-optimally- dual lacerators on switch. Frenzy barbs are pretty good throw weapon specialists since we have to max double swing for frenzy. Although we do not max throw mastery, double swing synergises with double throw. Dual lacerators on switch means that you can switch to double throw mode if affected by IM. IM doesn't affect ranged attacks. As you already know, lacerators has amp damage on them, which means that throwing them fast will hit the mobs hard when amp dam is on even if the throw damage is not max out. While you cannot dish out massive number of arrows like a MSzon or Strafezon for crowd control, you can throw pretty fast considering the 30% IAS from your other eq and fanaticism from your merc. With double throw, you also need not attempt to escape in crowded spaces, trying not to get hit and not melee-hit anything for fear of IM. Double throw Lacerators also means that you can leech your life back with ll on COH and arreats even if amp dam overrides lt. You will still need to maneuver around a little and howl frequently as you cannot knock the mobs back or kill all of them fast enough. The end product is dishing out targeted large damage, while getting life back and not being swarmed (Howl) all under the effects of IM. At least you can go down fighting. After all, if my barb were to die, let him bring a couple of the mobs down together. That said, in the event where Izural is surrounded by OK casters, real-time strategy, fast hot-keying, cautious approach and lots of luck is needed to kill Izural without being killed by IM. Charging in with frenzy mindlessly (frantically clicking away) may, in all likelihood, get a frenzy barb killed by IM. One thing to note is that because we did not max double throw, our AR on throw is lower, hence the chance of hitting is low. The general strategy is: throw lacerators wisely (on OK casters only); howl periodically (for all other mobs); frenzy (only when OK casters are gone or when you deem it safe to); tank Izural without frenzy until all OK casters are gone; once IM is deem to be improbable, frenzy away!


5) Against immune physical, I do not have much of a problem because my merc wears infinity. The firestorm from hell torch drains their lives with ease when affected by conviction. Even without conviction, they take damage from it albeit at slow rate as well. Furthermore, death deals cold damage in the form of glacial spike as well. The only problem is leeching life back. Considering that the two types of immune physical in uberland are wraiths and bloodlord vampires, they should not be a big problem for you. Firstly, they don't do enough physical damage to kill you. Secondly, the fire damage dealt by bloodlord vampires will just glance off you with your stacked resistance. Thirdly, although wraiths drain mana, this can be countered with mana potions and their immunity is not as great as bloodlords. Lastly, you may take some time to kill the bloodlord which are immune physical and cold (against glacial spike) but eventually you will kill them with your firestorm.

Again, if you dual lacerators on switch, you will find little problem against the immune physical, except the frequently hit to flee overriding amp dam and having to taunt them back for you to hit may be somewhat annoying.

Overall, I will say that:

1) Although double throw lacerators+howl can deal with IM and crowd control at the same, no particular weapon or skill in a frenzy barb arsenal can be as effective as other builds. Even with double throw lacerators+howl, it is more of strategy and luck sometimes than anything else.

2) Immune physical in uberland will only pose as much a problem as taking more time to finish them off.

Cheers
Frenzy Kujaku

[Shocker]

biggest reason i recommend the dual azures?

sanctuary aura lvl 20+

got iron maiden? you probably got undead around, sanctuary provides insane enhanced damage against undead letting you cut through them like a hot knife through butter ;)

[Jek]

Spending the points on berserk is totally worth it, in all honestly I'd never build a non-singer without it... Howl off trash (now 0 defense doesn't matter anymore), berserk the cursers and wait off Iron Maiden and enter frenzy-mode again. I can't remember when I've lasted died to Iron Maiden. :)


Howl-Berserk theorem:
Howl + Berserk = ez-mode.

[Barloc]

Indeed.

I've also seen people use war-cry and stun, zerk/stun, zerk/stun. Very aggresive style, but that's even more points spent.

[Cormac McArt]

Seriously - Berserk is the best option!
Just one point in it and you can do sick damage with it with single ot dual Grief!

[The Avenged]

howl/zerk.....(periods for character requirements)

[Damric]

I always like 1 point grim ward on my frenzy barbs. Works like howl, but you make safe zones as you wish. Then just 1 point berserk. Of course I do it with an azurewraith also for triple redundancy.

[Barloc]

You ever notice with GW, if the monsters are cornered they stay scared and wont attack even if your right up there asses, but with howl if they are close like that and cant move they will still attack you?

[Damric]

yeah, I know what you mean Barloc. grim ward is a pretty cool skill, even just 1 point. I like how it works for running nihlathek, and also in the chaos sanctuary. Sometimes during baal runs, after I portal out from killing nihlathek and someone will go in my portal and they say "Why are the monsters all paralyzed??? what did you do to them?" It is nice when helping other people level up/rush because it makes safe zones too. Like I said, it's pretty much a staple for all my frenzy barbs. I usually just howl for berserk barbs, and don't bother with fear skills for whirlwind builds.

[shuy]

All advices helps you but you alway be in danger.
Anyway the best way is leap, leap and TP - always helps.