Critique my PvM Singer!

[FattyMcGee]

Disclaimers:

1. Arreats' is probably not the greatest helm due to it's low +skills, but I'm worried a +5 WC rare will be too expensive for me. But maybe there are better choices...
2. This build will primarily be used for key running, norm/nm rushing, and bragging about my life total (my last one had 7600, I'd like to beat that).

Stats:
str: base
dex: base
vit: ALL!
nrg: base


Skills:
20 howl
20 taunt
20 battlecry
20 warcry
20 battle orders
1 battle command
1 iron skin (prereq)
1 nat res
1+ shout (remainder of skill points after lvl... 93? haha)


Equipment (here's the place I probably need the most critiquing!):

helm: arreats w/ perf sapphire
armor: enigma mage plate
weapon 1: HOTO (probably wiz spike until I can afford)
weapon 2: HOTO (probably wiz spike until I can afford)
belt: arach
gloves: upped frostburns
ring 1: soj
ring 2: fcr/mana ring
boots: waterwalks (as close as possible to +65 life)
ammy: ??? Some magical +3wc/+xx life or +3wc/+xx DR would probably be my choice... DR ammy for pit vipers when running nihl.

Inventory:
TP/ID tomes
20/xx barb torch
anni
4x wc skillers (with +life eventually, when I can afford)
life/mana scs
(leaving a 4x4 space open for items. He is pvm after all :girly:)

Merc: (Defiance)
weapon: eth insight CV (got a +17 med one!)
armor: eth glad bane w/ sol
helm: ??? eth andy's? eth upped crown of thieves? not sure here.


Any and all suggestions welcome!! Thanks in advance,


-f

[LiftedUp]

If you want the BO skill levels, drop one of the HOTOs and make yourself a CTA (if you can afford it). You'll gain +1 All Skills on top of the +3 to BO (effectually +4 to BO). And yes, the +5 BO helm will cost you, but it's entirely worth it if you're going to be spending time with this character--alone or in a party.

Also, rather than a FCR ring...you mentioned wanting some DR for Nihl runs...you could grab a Nature's Peace. It'll keep Nihl from CE'ing your face off and offer up to 11 PDR. You could also drop the PSaph on the Arreat and throw in a Sol instead for 7 more PDR.

[FattyMcGee]

Thanks Lifted. For general monster killing purposes (which is what he'll be doing most of the time) I don't think CtA will be useful compared to HoTO, as it lowers my fcr and +skills to WC considerably. However that's not a bad idea for a switch for higher BO. I think as I start gaining some wealth I'll consider 2x CtAs on switch for super-high BO buff.

Nature's Peace is another good idea - how do you think I should stay at the 105% fcr bp then? I guess a crafted caster ammy? I think that'd be really, really expensive though... and would net me -1 to skills since magical can be up to +3 WC. Hmm... I'll have to mull that one over.


Anyone else? No responses... perhaps I scared ppl off by being too restrictive in my first post? :dontknow: I edited it now...

Thanks everyone and keep the suggestions coming!

[OneFromBeyond]

With War Cry as my main attack, I never found Pit Vipers to be a pain at all, so I don't know if PDR is as necessary.

I think that you are doing okay, but have you sort of calculated how high your mana will be? Even with a L17 Meditation, you will need at least 1000 mana to be able to WC with some frequency.

As far as I can see, the only +mana items will be
- Sapphire in helm (+38)
- SOJ (+20)
- whatever charms you get with here

while you have lots of %Mana
- Hoto (15% x 2)
- Arach (5%)
- Frostburn (40%)
- SOJ (25%)
- Battle Orders (at least 100%)

Obviously with these items you will be fine no matter what, but with 700-800 mana you will find yourself chugging blues the whole time.

*OneFromBeyond

[FattyMcGee]

You're right! I know I had enough mana with my last singer (very similar setup) but I think I had a LOT of +mana charms and a pretty secksy fcr/mana ring... like 10fcr/110mana.

Let's do some calcs:
Assumptions: I'll get around +70 mana on my fcr/mana ring, I'll get to at least lvl 93, and I'll keep the psapphire in my arreats.

base mana: 102
from items (incl 20stat torch and 10 stat anni): 158
total: 260

multiplier (from slvl 43 BO and items): 3.61

grand total: 939

Not too bad, but probably a little bit too low. I'd like to get to 280+ base mana for this build to not have to chug a lot of blues. Unless I get a super uber fcr/mana ring again, I'll make sure to get ~20 more mana from charms. Ugh, life/mana small charms are 'spensive :banghead:

Thanks! Keep the critiques coming!!
-f

[Cormac McArt]

A hard-point in Find Item would be OK for finding Mana Potions. A point in Leap for just in case , perhaps...
And good luck with the Singer - gosh they're so badly nerfed that it makes a deed to make one successful...
Oh , almost forgot - try Amplify charges wand (or else)!

[jel]

Oh , almost forgot - try Amplify charges wand (or else)!

Amplify damage cannot be a charge on a wand. Lacerator or that unique maul type is the best bet of getting amplify without a necromancer IIRC, though find Kijya's posts, there is a direct link in this persons signature to a thread that lists everything you'll ever need. (I think this person posted recently in a thread I participated in, in the assassin forum btw.)

[vknez]

get 3 wc 10 fcr amu so you can wear 2 sojs and retain 105 fcr

[FattyMcGee]

get 3 wc 10 fcr amu so you can wear 2 sojs and retain 105 fcr

mmm yes more skills. However that would leave me with only 816 mana instead of 939, which means I'd have to net about 47 more base mana via charms in order to get a 1k mana pool. And getting 1k mana would be even more important because my WC would cost even more! I think this is still a good thing to shoot for eventually, but would require much more $$ (as good life/mana scs are very expensive, at least on ladder).


Amplify damage cannot be a charge on a wand. Lacerator or that unique maul type is the best bet of getting amplify without a necromancer IIRC, though find Kijya's posts, there is a direct link in this persons signature to a thread that lists everything you'll ever need. (I think this person posted recently in a thread I participated in, in the assassin forum btw.)

Gavel of Pain on switch... very interesting. :scratchchin: Would be perfect for those pesky PIs, and what else would I be using my switch for anyway; I'm using my HotOs for BO! Thanks jel I'll definitely be looking to get a GoP for this guy's switch weapon.

A hard-point in Find Item would be OK for finding Mana Potions. A point in Leap for just in case , perhaps...
And good luck with the Singer - gosh they're so badly nerfed that it makes a deed to make one successful...

Oh ya I had a point in leap and leap attack on my last barb - was very useful utility skill in earlier levels but once i got enigma it sort of petered out. Was fun to use leap in friendly duels though. And totally agree about singer... if they only made the damage unblockable, it would be so much better. How does it make ANY sense that a sound (yell) is blockable with a normal shield???



Thanks everyone - keep it coming!

-f

[The Avenged]

the only thing id do is probobly get a prayer merc to synergys the meditation

[crawlingdeadman]

shako > arreat for a singer.

i also prefer wizard spikes for main weapons, this can free up your belt slot for verdungo or string of ears for dr%. glooms trap belt has good mana bonuses too.

nat's peace wont work since your merc will be doing some killing. just howl everything away and jump all over nith to (hopefully) keep your dummy from killing anything else.

prayer merc is a bad idea. you shouldnt have to worry about life much. your huge life is your defense. you shouldnt have to constantly gain it back. go with might all the way. the merc needs as much dmg as he can get. barring that i'd go with holy freeze over prayer.

i've also never tried gavel of pain since it's got huge reqs. if you want a curse check out spellsteel beared axe, it's got decrep.

from my experience +skills on a wc barb are good, but really, you're at most going to be doing a tad over 2k dmg with 30 +skills. missing a few doesnt lose you a lot and it'll make you much more effective overall. cryers are the ultimate helper. better than a necro at crowd control, better than a pally for group aura (i count life gain as an aura), and better than a druid for life gain (his doesnt die).

[shuy]

Hard to critique :) Looks ok.

With insight merc you need about 700 mana.
I'm not sure but it is possible that 1K mana can be enough to tele without meditation. Then you can give him Reapers Toll.

BTW why do not use crafted boots instead of WT.

[The Avenged]

tele to the edge of niths platform then leap to nith and merc will kill on the outside of your wc its how i do it

[FattyMcGee]

@shuy - crafted boots would definitely be good for more mana - I was just looking at Waterwalks because of the huge +life. But crafted boots could have fhr which I'd need if I didn't go Arreat's. Does anyone know how much +life I can get on a crafted caster boot?


shako > arreat for a singer.

i also prefer wizard spikes for main weapons, this can free up your belt slot for verdungo or string of ears for dr%. glooms trap belt has good mana bonuses too.

nat's peace wont work since your merc will be doing some killing. just howl everything away and jump all over nith to (hopefully) keep your dummy from killing anything else.

prayer merc is a bad idea. you shouldnt have to worry about life much. your huge life is your defense. you shouldnt have to constantly gain it back. go with might all the way. the merc needs as much dmg as he can get. barring that i'd go with holy freeze over prayer.

i've also never tried gavel of pain since it's got huge reqs. if you want a curse check out spellsteel beared axe, it's got decrep.

from my experience +skills on a wc barb are good, but really, you're at most going to be doing a tad over 2k dmg with 30 +skills. missing a few doesnt lose you a lot and it'll make you much more effective overall. cryers are the ultimate helper. better than a necro at crowd control, better than a pally for group aura (i count life gain as an aura), and better than a druid for life gain (his doesnt die).

Thanks CDM! Now that I look at it again, yes I really should go with shako. I was thinking I would need both the resists and the FHR of Arreat's but after recalcing it, I will have more than enough for max res without arreats. Then it's just a matter of FHR, and +145 life / +145 mana / 10% dr really outshines a simple 30% FHR.

Speaking of FHR, what breakpoint do you suggest? My last singer was at the 6frame bp (27%) and I don't recall having any problems with him at all, but that was a couple years ago. Would it be worth it to try to get to 48%?

I have to say I heartily disagree with the 2x wiz spikes. I've tried both before, and 2x Hotos always seemed to give me much faster killing and better party skills. In crunching the #s, the Hoto/arach set up gives me comparable life (due to much higher BO), 322 more WC dmg (almost 20% more dmg at same fcr rate), same FCR, and much higher party skills like +21% more life/mana from BO and +70% more from Shout. Not to mention your higher def from a higher Iron Skin lvl. Hotos also give you the potential for MUCH higher life with spirit charges. How do you experience much more effectiveness with Wizzys?? Wizzys offer more mana, resists, and a socket. My res will be maxed anyway, I'll have enough mana, and I can't figure out what to put in socket that would come close to +6 all skills and Oak charges. Wizzys are only cool if you simply don't have enough mana, but other than that I really don't see any point.

Agree that my huge life will be my survival technique, and along with 18% dr (enigma + shako) and max res I am not worried at all about survival. I did have a defiance merc rather than might with my last build - it was more party friendly and it was kinda fun to see my defense be so high. I think you're right though, might will help out more in the end. I'll go with might.

Since I won't have the +20str from arreat's to help equip gavel of pain, spellsteel sounds like a better switch weap. Plus it has way more charges (if I'm reading Arreat Summit right, GoP only gets 3 charges of Amp dmg?? that sucks!).

Thanks for all the suggestions so far!!


-f

[jel]

Gavel of Pain on switch... very interesting. :scratchchin: Would be perfect for those pesky PIs, and what else would I be using my switch for anyway; I'm using my HotOs for BO! Thanks jel I'll definitely be looking to get a GoP for this guy's switch weapon.


I didn't write that for you, if you reread what I wrote, I wrote to Cormac McArt, and not you, so I think you've misunderstood something.

Anyway if you want such a discussion I'd never suggest a GoP on switch, but a lacerator, as your BO with that gear you've is most likely sufficient for you to never come into trouble unless you play awful, a Lacerator + an eternity would as a second hand weapon would not only allow you to take care of physical immunes, no it would also give you the ability to beat über tristram.