Grief/Oath or Grief/Death for WWer?

[zerth]

Hi all, I am a barb noob and I would like to get some opinions :)

I am currently using a Grief PB and an Oath eth Cryptic Sword (a nice roll btw, 334ed) on my WW barb. As far as I can tell this setup nets 12.5 attacks per round. I am thinking of swapping the Oath with an eth Colossus Sword Death. This setup has 8.3 attacks per round, but Death has some interesting mods. Which setup do you think is better?

Also a very noob question. On a dual wileding barb do mods like crushing bow deadly strike, leech etc that are on one of the weapons apply to the other as well (as if they were on a non weapon item) or are they taken into account for each weapon separately? For example if I hit with the Grief PB and have Death on the off hand will I get the CB or the added DS or the mana leech?

TIA//zerth

[Barloc]

I wouldn't normally suggest using slow weapons for ww. As good of a weapon that death is, I wouldn't bother with it for that purpose. Just get gear with good DS/CB on it and reap the benefits of hitting more with the faster weapons.

Mods from weapons are rolled independently, so you dont get the benefits of mods on one weapon added to the other.

[The Avenged]

just for referance greif/beast/duress is highest overall dmg

[gakky]

This has been discussed many times. Dual Grief gives the highest pure damage easily.
Grief/beast is actually a bad combo for ww! The speed boost from beast has no benefit and beast has low damage. There has been some discussion in the Druid forum that Grief is bugged with IM and has no feedback damage from the +damage.
BTW Cryptic sword is poor for oath as it has low damage and only range 2.
Barloc is correct. Speed is far more important, you want the max attacks.
Maybe Avenged meant Death/Beast which is an ok combo. I've tried this before but it's nowhere near other combos.

[Barloc]

This has been discussed many times. Dual Grief gives the highest pure damage easily.
Grief/beast is actually a bad combo for ww! The speed boost from beast has no benefit and beast has low damage. There has been some discussion in the Druid forum that Grief is bugged with IM and has no feedback damage from the +damage.
BTW Cryptic sword is poor for oath as it has low damage and only range 2.
Barloc is correct. Speed is far more important, you want the max attacks.
Maybe Avenged meant Death/Beast which is an ok combo. I've tried this before but it's nowhere near other combos.

Actually Grief/Beast is the TOP choice for WW PvP Barbs. The Bonus from fanata adds a huge damage bonus to greif. While the speed bonus doesn't affect ww, It will affect you when you switch to Berzerk, which is on occasion quite handy. The aura also adds AR.

But for the OP, I wouldn't bother if it's PvM, since that combo is only in axes, and that would require too much repairs (for my taste anyway)

[gakky]

That surprises me since the damage with Beast is considerably lower. Axes do better with Beast but I think this discussion is about swords.
Beast adds 186%ed, say giving 15%extra damage. With 166 average damage from a beast CB vs 433 from grief PB. You are dropping from 433+433=866 to 433+166=599. Thats a 31% drop in damage compared to 15% gain, netting 20% damage loss (599x1.15/866=.795, without factoring in greif DS and -%target def, or max dam charms).
I've tried beast before and the damage is aweful. I can see the %AR would help. The extra ed would that really make much difference as berserk already has huge ed ?
I'm not saying it isn't good PvP, i just can't see why.

[Barloc]

Because it looks like your not factoring the 186% from beast added to griefs base damage (340-400), that's what makes the difference. If you were only multiplying the base of the weapon damage it self,without considering the +damage factor that is unique to grief, then the bonus would not be significant as you are stating . Greif/Greif + Fort will out damage it for the same reasoning, since the ed% from fort is so huge it'll add 300% to the base damages of the griefs. Take away fort from enigma based barbs, and greif/beast will win. But yeah grief alone vs beast alone no contest, greif owns.

[gakky]

But the 186% from beast is considered off weapon ed. I am factoring in the +damage from grief - assuming 433 for grief PB. So if you already have %ed:
182 lev30 WW
173 lev30 mastery
100 base
200 strength
70 Enigma
60 Steelrend
40 40ed jewel
----
825 (ie x8.25 damage) which is on the low side. An extra 186%ed adds 22.5% to total average damage. That still does not compensate for the 31% loss from total average. If you have less ed than I listed above then Beast will look better. And PvM you will generally have way more ed. So I still don't buy Beast sword PvP.

[Barloc]

In post # 5 I said:

"But for the OP, I wouldn't bother if it's PvM, since that combo is only in axes, and that would require too much repairs (for my taste anyway)"

The only reason I said anything about grief/beast is that you said it was a bad combo for ww. For swords of course it makes no sense, since you can't make Beast in a sword.

As far as calcs go, give me a bit and I'll see if I can come up with something solidified.

[gakky]

Doh! I forgot you can't get it in swords. And yes my mistake, I should have qualified it as bad combo for WW PvM.
PvP I am still interested as why it is considered good. If Axes, then 447.5 + 447.5 = 895 vs 447.5 + 175.5 = 623. 623*1.15/895 ~= .80 so it's still a 20% drop in average damage ? You get some AR boost to both weapons, but lose the Eth -25%def on one, so I don't see much benefit there.
Is it because the main hand is much better by sacrificing second hand damage and relying on main hand hits ?

[thktanuki]

Doesn't the Open Wounds on Beast make it VERY viable for PvP?

[korialstraz]

To help contribute on the OT discussion here :scratchhead:

Does auras (fana) count as off weapon ed? I thought that was figured into the equation somewhere else which could be the reason grief/beast wins over grief/grief

[The Avenged]

Still standing beast/greif/duress highest armor axe combo to max dmg

[XDoomasX]

It was debated long time ago and I think conclusion was that dual griefs + fort is better dmg wise, bet grief/beast works best with enigma due to main weapon hitting more in short ww's (for pvp).

grief/beast + enigma > 2x griefs + enigma.

2x grief + fort > grief/beast + fort. IIRC.

[Barloc]

Well I needed help on the grief/beast calcs so I started a new thread over at the PvP forum. Hope this clears things up. This here thread is too OT to get anywhere.

Here's the link.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723582