Enigma vs Chains of Honor

[Change Thrower]

I am a frenzy barb and I am looking into which armor to use. I dont understand why the guide is telling me to use Enigma over Chains of Honor...Enigma offers no resistances while Chains of Honor offers 65...the only other item that offers resistances (i am using spankehs frenzy guide) is arreats! Pls help me

[Battlesnax]

Simple...use Fortitude.
Why?
It's cheaper (only 1 HR as opposed to 2 for the others), gives you more damage, has some nice resists (+25-30 all), has huge defense.

More damage => more leeching => Stay alive.

If you really need more resists, Um your Arreats, get a B-torch and some resist charms, do the 3 Anya quests, and put a few points into Natural Resist.

Remember, you don't NEED max resists in PvM unless you're doing Ubers. In that case, of course go with Chains of Honor. Having your resists around the +40's to +50s would be fine in PvM as long as you have good life leech (like from Drac's).

[Croup]

It depends on what your Frenzy Barb is for. If it's for Uber-running, then you definitely need Chains of Honor for the resists. If it's just general PvM, Keyrunning, Magic Find runs, etc., then you should use Enigma for the teleport and Magic Find.

I disagree with Battlesnax as I would rather have either of the other two armors at any given time. I never bother with Fortitude for a Frenzy Barb. But I suppose that's just me.

[Barloc]

I just copy/pasted this from spankeh's guide, this is near the bottom under Uber stuff.

"To be honest, I'd change out both Forts (Frenzier and Merc) and replace them with CoH.
It just adds so much more safety to the chars, the less damage you do from the change is worth it 10 fold."

I agree. Res, DR%, demon damage, leach are all handy mods.
Fort is a nice armor for random acts of violence tho =)

[shuy]

I think you woll not be able to use teleport from Eni, because lack of mana. If you are going to use it to escape from surround, after few teleport you can still be in danger and you can have not enough mana for even 1 frenzy swing. IMO 1 pt in "leap" can help you better then tele.

Forti is nice armor but you cannot compare it to CoH. Damage from armor is never great:
"Enhanced Damage from non-weapon equipment works like Enhanced Damage from skills and the strength bonus, which is different from how Enhanced Damage on the weapon works. Essentially, the 350% ED will add 350% of your weapon damage to your total. With a 60-93 damage weapon, that means the 350% Enhanced Damage will add 210-325 total damage." - classic.battle.net/diablo2exp
If you use CoH damage vs demons and undead is similar or even better, because +2 skills and str increase your damage.

[donshi]

I think you woll not be able to use teleport from Eni, because lack of mana. If you are going to use it to escape from surround, after few teleport you can still be in danger and you can have not enough mana for even 1 frenzy swing. IMO 1 pt in "leap" can help you better then tele.

Forti is nice armor but you cannot compare it to CoH. Damage from armor is never great:
"Enhanced Damage from non-weapon equipment works like Enhanced Damage from skills and the strength bonus, which is different from how Enhanced Damage on the weapon works. Essentially, the 350% ED will add 350% of your weapon damage to your total. With a 60-93 damage weapon, that means the 350% Enhanced Damage will add 210-325 total damage." - classic.battle.net/diablo2exp
If you use CoH damage vs demons and undead is similar or even better, because +2 skills and str increase your damage.

You could always carry around mana pots to teleport.. and when you have Mana leech and %dmg to mana, you almost never run out of mana using frenzy.

And that's kind of underestimating the potential of 350ed.... +skills barely does anything in terms of damage for barbs.. and str is next to useless asides from equipment requirements. That, and why would any1 use such a weak weapon?

[mfdoomm]

I dont know about you but ideally, i would not make a Barb for the type of MFing that requires an enigma. Lets face it enigma without a decent faster cast rate is to me sluggish (after being spoiled with hammerdins/sorc's) and for a barb your not gaining a whole lot with the +2 to skills. COH or FORT are the obvious choice. Unless your just having fun and want to be a teleporting barbarbian.

[stephan]

A Barb that carries dual wizzies on switch and has 5 FCR somewhere else, teles faster than any Paladin ever could.

[Croup]

I dont know about you but ideally, i would not make a Barb for the type of MFing that requires an enigma. Lets face it enigma without a decent faster cast rate is to me sluggish (after being spoiled with hammerdins/sorc's) and for a barb your not gaining a whole lot with the +2 to skills. COH or FORT are the obvious choice. Unless your just having fun and want to be a teleporting barbarbian.

MF Frenzy Barbs with Enigma get to Nihl faster. They get to the Summoner faster. They get to the Countess faster. Arguably get to Meph faster. Get to Baal faster. Plus, Enigma actually have MF on it, which the others don't. If any Frenzy Barb needs those armors to survive, they're built wrong. So I'll take the armor that lets my guy get to his kills quicker and has the MF to profit more from those kills.

[donshi]

My friends barb actually has alternate equipment that gets him to 200 fcr and I've never seen any1 hunt keys quicker.

Frenzy barbs w gg weapons are so damn powerful that he cuts through nihl/countess/summoner like butter, even after giving up his stronger helm/ammy/belt/rings/gloves.

The faster run/walk also cuts his time down a bit.

[SeCKSEgai]

Enigma is all about mobility - it comes down to the player on whether or not they want it. I can't stand not having a teleport on any character, it's just so convenient. However, if what you're doing doesn't involve skipping monsters a mob at a time, then coh or fort is a solid alternative. In that case I would recommend a fort for the additional damage and protection since you would be wanting to kill everything in your way as fast as possible.

[jhtvman]

For general PVM, Enigma is pretty much the best all around choice for most any class except a sorc obviously. The mobility you gain from teleport is incredibly valuable, and the +2 to skills and damage reduction are also nice.

As a Barb, it's generally a good idea to put a point into natural resist, and when you get the right gear, you can actually get quite a large chunk from it, so much so that the +65 from COH is pretty severe overkill unless you're doing Uber Tristram. That being the case, I would recommend Fort over COH because it offers both better offense and defense, and it's cheaper to make or get ahold of than COH.

[Scudstorm]

Duress!!!!

[shuy]

I use frenzy barb mostly for ubers, but generally PvM is similar. We are talking about barbarians not necro. Why you want teleport away from danger. Leap drink potion and kill bastards. If you feel that you can die because of 1 hit, make new character. Barb shoud have 10K life, and 1M defence, 200@ res and 50K dmg. Teleport and another advanced spells can damage his brain.

Donshi I quoted description from Aldur set - so wepapon dmg was low, but even if weapon has 2 times more dmg is still crap comparing to main damage. Moreover 200 ED vs demons + more dmg from skills and str is compared with 300 ED vs all monsters. Difference must be small. Another stats are much better on CoH.
Ref mana - I always have problem. Especially in UT when ghosts leach my mana from behind (to prevent it I always use Azure in Tristram but all players prefer Grief).

[SeCKSEgai]

I use frenzy barb mostly for ubers, but generally PvM is similar. We are talking about barbarians not necro. Why you want teleport away from danger. Leap drink potion and kill bastards. If you feel that you can die because of 1 hit, make new character. Barb shoud have 10K life, and 1M defence, 200@ res and 50K dmg. Teleport and another advanced spells can damage his brain.

Don't forget IM cast on you mid swing is an easy 1 hit death unless you're beserking ;)

Leap isn't as fast and is a bit more limited than teleport - but like I said, it really depends on how you play. If you plan on killing everything anyway, there's no reason to use enigma. If you're skipping monsters, teleport goes wear leap can't.

[shuy]

OFC I was a little bit ironic.
IM is big misstake in Diablo - there is no way to avoid it if you start attack zeal, frenzy, fury - you must die.

Anyway melee barb is not best character for fast teleporting to all locations in 5 Acts. It is possible but not really comfortable.

I wanted to say that barb is hard to kill and most often you do not need escape far away when you are in danger, just withdraw few yards, drink potion and come back fight. Diablo is random game and sometimes 20 frezytaurus surround you and you are not able to withdraw - teleport is only way to not die, but it is rare situation.
Few month ago I though that even 1 pt in leap is waste, but few times I had problem with UMeph. There was many skel mages on my way and I was not able to get him. In such situation leap resolve problem. Moreover you knockback enemies when landing, what give you some time to decide - fight or escape.
Summary - I prefer to be less mobile, waste 1 pt in leap but have high res, ll and increase dmg and AR. Maybe I'll die more often but there is no difference if I die 1 per 2 months or 1 per 3 months ;)

Anyway the point is in SeCKSEgai conclusion "depends on how you play". If someone wants choose good equip, he must try all possibilites.

[SeCKSEgai]

I would never say 1 pt in leap is a waste, great skill.

[jhtvman]

I would never say 1 pt in leap is a waste, great skill.
Absolutely. It's a great way to get yourself out of trouble if you don't use/can't afford an Enigma. Also makes navigating some of the areas in the game much easier if you're the type to walk it instead of having people rush for you.

[Cormac McArt]

I think you woll not be able to use teleport from Eni, because lack of mana. If you are going to use it to escape from surround, after few teleport you can still be in danger and you can have not enough mana for even 1 frenzy swing. IMO 1 pt in "leap" can help you better then tele.

Forti is nice armor but you cannot compare it to CoH. Damage from armor is never great:
"Enhanced Damage from non-weapon equipment works like Enhanced Damage from skills and the strength bonus, which is different from how Enhanced Damage on the weapon works. Essentially, the 350% ED will add 350% of your weapon damage to your total. With a 60-93 damage weapon, that means the 350% Enhanced Damage will add 210-325 total damage." - classic.battle.net/diablo2exp
If you use CoH damage vs demons and undead is similar or even better, because +2 skills and str increase your damage.
Of course he will be able to Teleport with Enigma with any amount of Mana - all it takes is an Insight RW Mercenary!
Plus Barbarians have awsome FCR frames and breackpoints so just a FCR ring enough to get the FCR an Amazon achieves by 68 (or something) FCR!

[Barloc]

Of course he will be able to Teleport with Enigma with any amount of Mana - all it takes is an Insight RW Mercenary!
Plus Barbarians have awsome FCR frames and breackpoints so just a FCR ring enough to get the FCR an Amazon achieves by 68 (or something) FCR!

So true, tele to throne in seconds with nothing in mana (hotos/insight).