auto-stats and stats altering systems.

[NASE]

Hi,

As we all know, blizzard is very likely going to implement an auto-stats systems. This means that we won't be able to chose our stats like we did in diablo II. blizzard will chose them for us. Yet at the same time, the other ways of customising stats will become more important. Currently, we already know that skills will affect the effect of stats and that equipment will provide additional stats. And that perhaps there will be more systems that have something to do with stats.

I'm wondering how you all stand towards these systems. Do you believe the effects of equipment should be as large as manual stats are in diablo II? Do you prefer an enchantment systems rather then a mod system? Do you want to see charms return as the main way to customise stats? Or do you want to get rid of the passive skills that effect stats?
I want to know what you think.

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A second thing to remember is that there might be an other unknown system that effects stats. what would this system be?

I myself have an idea for a possible system and would like to know if you think it's implementable. Or is it flawed?

My system goes a follows. My systems uses the talisman as a vessel for gems/jewels (or whatever you want to call them). These gems will affect stats directly and will affect stat-like effects such as fhr, fcr, resistance. The idea is to put them into the talisman where they stay until you want to clear the talisman. Clearing the talisman destroys the gems. The idea would to provide up to 100 DII stats for a decent talisman and as much as 200 for a perfect talisman, keeping balance issue manageable (I hope).

The gems will be created by a special system somewhat resembling the horadric cube. The idea is the combine 3 items with certain mods into this device which will then provide you with a gem.

Lets have a look at some examples. Lest say we find 3 items that give us strength. 'cubing' them will result in a gem that offers strength. However, 'cubing' 4 items, 3 with strength and 3 with life will result in a gem that offers both strength and life.

The exact implementation will be part of the final balancing. Yet it's quite logic that if you use better items, you will end up with better gems. Again part of the balancing will be what mods are cubable. Items that offer enchanted damage might offer a little bit of strength - as eventually, strength affects enchanted damage. Items that offer critical strike might offer some dexterity.

What effects do I envision. First, have a clear and useful systems for the crap drops. As we all know, 80% of the drops won't be good to wear. There will be to few good mods combined. with this system, 3 of those useless mods suddenly become interesting. certainly if they have a good combination of str, dex, life or similar mods. 3 crap are items might offer a str, life and dex charms. Suddenly, this gets interesting.

A second things this offers is very elegant respecs. If you want to change the gems in your talisman, this means that you have to start over again. You can't keep the gems. SO if you are just starting out and you find out that strength isn't as effective, you can chance and just lose some crappy gems. However, if you are playing for quite some time and have gathered good gems. That respec will destroy your good gems. Is this still something you want to do? So if you are just experimenting with your build, you can change without to much problem. If you are on the other hand just changing because some guide tells you too after you have played the character for years, you are going to play seriously.

A third advantage is that this system don't use good equipment - unless you want to waste 3 enigma's for a huge strength gem. Equipment and stats don't go into conflict, and I believe this to be the right way to go.

A fourth thing to see is that the elite player can easily distinguish him from the noob. A noob will have to chance talisman configurations more often then the elite, so this elite will end up with a better talisman system then the noob. However, the noob can still be effective as long as he puts in enough effort. It's not noob-unfriendly.

Note that the effective implementation isn't set into stone. You can add the necessity to find an empty gems, you can force people to find more then 3 items etc.


P.S. please don't let this turn into an other auto-stats versus manual-stats thread. lets just forgot there is something like manual stats as I know someone will say something wrong and force others to respond. Just don't.
P.P.S. Feel free to propose other system if you want.

[Grug]

That's a pretty good proposal. I keep saying that the auto-stats are meant to be a base-line to be improved upon. I'm not too keen on items becoming gems, though, cause it might cause Hoarding.

[NioTumsSpik]

Dident they say something about gems being used to allow for stat customization?

[Demetrium]

That's a pretty good proposal. I keep saying that the auto-stats are meant to be a base-line to be improved upon. I'm not too keen on items becoming gems, though, cause it might cause Hoarding.

I kinda have to agree with Grug on this one. I like your attempt at making items you might normally vendor or toss useful, but hoarding could be a potential issue. Maybe not though? It's almost too hard to predict. Trading is of course is one of this game's staples, so its something that needs to be protected.

While people would obviously be trading items to convert into gems, I think you'd come across issues where a certain ilvl or treasure class would become deflated. If, after some months, 70% of the player population is in the level 70-80 range, these people will be hunting for items in the 60-70 range to transmute to gems. This would make this item range harder to obtain and more valuable. You would have a bottleneck here, and this would also be frustrating for anyone who is in the level 60-70 range who just wants a piece of gear to actually equip.

More importantly, I think there's an underlying question of how much customization is really necessary for the game. Between gear, runes, talents/skills, mercs, and perhaps things we don't even know about yet, do we really need more?

Some would argue you can never have too much customization. It's more of an opinion thing really, I suppose. I personally think there's a breaking point where trying to get everything about your character absolutely perfect starts to become monotonous. Things like needing to have all perfect items with max armor, yadda yadda. I'm going to break one of my own golden rules here by saying this, but, it starts to feel too much like an MMORPG like EQ/WoW at this point. The arcade feel of Diablo becomes out of touch. Lets not forget that a lot of the fun in Diablo is playing with a bunch of different characters and not always trying to make just one character Superman.

[raveharu]

We know too little, so let's do away with speculations and just wait for further updates.

[Valmy]

Hi. Don't take it like a debate, only like my opinion an introduction ;)

I would be against autostats... if they were implemented in Diablo2 as we know it.
In Diablo3, we don't know exactly how the system works, then I prefer to play it and make myself an opinion.

Personally, I don't like the fixed stats. I would prefer some system, for example if you are a Barbarian and you level up, you received 5 points. If you put in strength, or vitality, it's ok. But if you pt in dexterity, you need to waste 2 points to receive +1 in dexterity, or you need to waste 3 (or 4) "stat-level-points" to receive a +1 in Willpower.


I think this way you can disminished the effect of "all to life" in mage characters for example, and you let the role comes and each particular would be build in a different way, and there won't be clones of the same level=same stats.



But I'm not a programmer, then I will live with Diablo3 autostats, and I suppose it will work ok. If Blizzard thinks it's a good move, then move on and play it, as you said. I think the same.






On the other side... I got some concerns about the skills in stats effects. For example, looks like you must "waste" without any doubt the maximum points in the wizzy skill that gives you more damage with willpower. I won't see any wizzard without this skill maxed. Looks like a granted maxed skill. Same with the skills of the barbarian that lets you do more damage for strength. And I suppose the other characters will have more of them, too.
I see an obligated maximum points in those skills, in almost all builds, because with autostats, Wizzards will have lots of willpower, and then the effect of this skills, will be great. Same with the barbarian strength, and probably same with the dexterity in the future ranged class.




About the talisman... uhm, I don't have enough imagination but I think it will be in a way very similar as you said, NASE. Of course we will have the talisman on it, but I'm not sure if they will be a mix of crafted items (adding stats or modifiers on them, on existing items) and gems into talisman (with formulas like horadric cube), or something like that.

Perhaps Blizzard got the idea, but they still didn't finished it.





Nice topic. I don't like the autostats as they looks now, but I think we will like the system when finished and it will work very well. If Blizzard changes something, I think they won't kill theirselves, the company is the first who likes to improve. I hope.