Idea: A Training Ground

[sicilian]

This may be less necessary if they include respecs, but depending on how expensive or available the respecs are, it might be a good thing to include anyway.

There should be an area of the game called the Training Grounds, or something similar. It could either be one central location, or perhaps there would be a version of it in each town/city. That might be a little better, because then you could have different styles to see.

In the Training Ground, you could reassign all your points and try out various skills against practice dummies, etc. Maybe there would be a fee for each respec within the training grounds, but it would be a lot lower than a real respec, and when you left the training grounds all your points would revert to their original placements.

For anyone worried about this making cookie cutter builds too easy to discover this way, the dummies could be made very fragile. Basically, they would fall over with any damage. The idea wouldn't be to find out which build works best, but just an area where you can try out skills to see how they work (assuming you're of a level that would be able to use them in the first place).

What do you think? Also, in this environment, do you think it would be good or bad to allow the swapping of runes while inside? I'm torn on that one.

[Grug]

I already had an idea for making Rune swapping fair. It's in my thread, "Grug's Thing A Day" under Suggestions.

[KillaMike]

I already had an idea for making Rune swapping fair. It's in my thread, "Grug's Thing A Day" under Suggestions.

post a link plz

[Grug]

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=715649

See last post on the page.

[Demetrium]

I really don't think something like this is necessary. Diablo has always been the type of game where you can fairly easily do some number crunching to try to validate a spec.

Besides, I think it's safe to assume there would be no good way to parse DPS without the help of an add-on. Merely mentioning the word add-on is going to make 50000 people flip out and say the game is too much like WoW, so I apologize in advance.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I really don't think something like this is necessary. Diablo has always been the type of game where you can fairly easily do some number crunching to try to validate a spec.

Besides, I think it's safe to assume there would be no good way to parse DPS without the help of an add-on. Merely mentioning the word add-on is going to make 50000 people flip out and say the game is too much like WoW, so I apologize in advance.

What the **** man we don't want the game to be too much like WoW :hang:

[Grug]

I really don't think something like this is necessary. Diablo has always been the type of game where you can fairly easily do some number crunching to try to validate a spec.

Besides, I think it's safe to assume there would be no good way to parse DPS without the help of an add-on. Merely mentioning the word add-on is going to make 50000 people flip out and say the game is too much like WoW, so I apologize in advance.

I hear what you're saying, but you're missing the point. It's more about Runes, testing out their effects before you commit. Figuring out how your skills work together can't be done with a program.

[Funkopotamus]

You can probably just wait a week then read/see what every single combination does on a website.

[shackleton]

aren't runes removable anyway?

[Demetrium]

I hear what you're saying, but you're missing the point. It's more about Runes, testing out their effects before you commit. Figuring out how your skills work together can't be done with a program.

Not trying to argue here, but what kind of effects from a rune could not not emulate with numbers? AoEs won't be very testable in the training area if it was just one test dummy, but you could run DPS averages based on numbers and doing distance/enemy count modifiers.

[Grug]

How they work together. Like, using Power rune on Skull of Flame for bosses, then toads for short range and mongrels for far? Just making sure you can use your abilities effectively in combination.

[sicilian]

Not trying to argue here, but what kind of effects from a rune could not not emulate with numbers? AoEs won't be very testable in the training area if it was just one test dummy, but you could run DPS averages based on numbers and doing distance/enemy count modifiers.

First, who said there would only be one test dummy? Easy enough to have multiple.

Second, the point is NOT to test builds, dps, viability of combinations, etc. it's to see the physical manifestation of the skill description.

For example, in D2, the Sorceress skill Frozen Orb is described as something like, "Shoots out a frozen orb that fires frost bolts." Does that do it justice really? With a training ground, you could actually see exactly how many bolts it fires, how fast it moves, how fast you can spam it, etc. It's a lot more concrete to know that.

Another example, Thunderstorm. Based on the description, who imagined it as is really?

[Demetrium]

First, who said there would only be one test dummy? Easy enough to have multiple.

It doesn't even matter.


Second, the point is NOT to test builds, dps, viability of combinations, etc. it's to see the physical manifestation of the skill description.

For example, in D2, the Sorceress skill Frozen Orb is described as something like, "Shoots out a frozen orb that fires frost bolts." Does that do it justice really? With a training ground, you could actually see exactly how many bolts it fires, how fast it moves, how fast you can spam it, etc. It's a lot more concrete to know that.

Another example, Thunderstorm. Based on the description, who imagined it as is really?

I just don't see the importance of this. Everything is going to be new until it's used for the first time; it's part of the fun in playing the class and experimenting.

Why do you need to find out everything at once? To me, that's what half the fun of D2 was. You check out some builds on paper, then you roll a character to see how they perform. Training ground just seems too straight to business. In your example, it would be a one time use thing. I'd rather have them spend time working on something else in the game that would get used more --- something that actually has to do with the game.

I'm sure websites will be posting all the combinations, etc quickly enough anyway.

[Q33]

I like this idea...not everyone wants to sit around and make every single build possible to see if said build is even fun. If there's a place to just try out the skill to see if its fun, I could figure out what build I want to play, and concentrate on making a specific build.

I think it would be even more useful with the addition of runes. You might be running along and find a really cool rune, that you think would work really well with a specific skill that you didnt choose. Rather than having to completely start a new character, you could just go to a training ground, try it out and see if its fun, and if it is, then you can start a new character dedicated to that.

It seems to me this would be maximizing the enjoyable portions, and minimizing the repetitive boring things.

All the combos will probably be on the internet very shortly, but this doesnt let the player experience it to allow them to decide for themselves if its fun.

[FlamangoHellfire]

It doesn't even matter.



I just don't see the importance of this. Everything is going to be new until it's used for the first time; it's part of the fun in playing the class and experimenting.

Why do you need to find out everything at once? To me, that's what half the fun of D2 was. You check out some builds on paper, then you roll a character to see how they perform. Training ground just seems too straight to business. In your example, it would be a one time use thing. I'd rather have them spend time working on something else in the game that would get used more --- something that actually has to do with the game.

I'm sure websites will be posting all the combinations, etc quickly enough anyway.

You know, I agree, but taking it a step further; It has taken us 9 years to get to the point of obsession and deconstruction that we are currently at with this game. Honestly, I'm probably going to give it a year before I even look online at any lists of skills or items or anything. Why? Because if Blizzard knows what they're doing (which they do) they're gonna give us an awesome, immersive game that is really going to captivate the player, and the first times through, I'm not going to even bother giving a whole bunch of thought to my build, I'm just going to play the game. I think what they're getting at with more NPC interaction, more storyline, more varied environment, more thematic continuity, destructible objects etc. is a game that challenges you, involves you, and isn't going to let you get bored. I think that auto-stats, no-respecs, no open class customization are just things that Blizzard has learned doesn't get the player is the game, it gets the player into his head crunching numbers and trying to play a god. They don't want that, at least not right away. Why? Hopefully, because this game is going to last us another nine or ten years if need be. They don't want players to feel like they are in control all of the time. They don't want the characters they create to be tools for the player to "play" with. They want us to hunker down at our desk with a big whopping stack of snacks and energy drinks, and be completely submerged in an out-of-this world experience where we are but a single soul pitted against the entire army of darkness, and if we don't soil our pants because we're scared out of our minds, it should be because we are excited and ready to be challenged. SO, in conclusion, a training area isn't on the checklist for ****ing your pants, so I wouldn't think that it's one of their priorities, especially if they're to get this right.

[Slevinn]

I kind of like this idea. It reminds me of the good ol' training grounds in Ultimate Online. I know its purpose is not the same, but I still think it could be beneficial as long as its limited.

[Daedrith]

Not trying to argue here, but what kind of effects from a rune could not not emulate with numbers? AoEs won't be very testable in the training area if it was just one test dummy, but you could run DPS averages based on numbers and doing distance/enemy count modifiers.

I agree that you could certainly number-crunch the damage, but there are certain aspects that you might not be able to really get a feel for without actually trying it out - it can be particularly difficult to factor in all of the "effects" of spells other than damage.

This would be the case if the abilities get more complicated, like, I DARE say, WoW. There are talent calculators and all for that but with all the different routes you can take and all the possible combinations of skills and more importantly how the player uses those skills makes it realistically impossible to be sure of each rune spec without experimenting in game... or reading what somebody else has already done ;-)

In addition, its a major inconvenience to the player. I see this training ground concept as a nifty way to give the player more freedom in their playing style because they won't be forced to make a new char just to try out a different spec. I'm sure there are other ways they could approach this issue too, I just really hope they avoid the plain old WoW method of paying gold to reset your talents.

But I also don't believe that it is a NECESSARY addition. It would be cool to have, but in other ways just playing the game to figure all of this stuff out will do just fine - I'm sure we will all be putting an obnoxious number of hours into the game anyways. Rune testing would just make things easier for the more casual players, which can be looked at as a good and/or bad thing depending on your perspective.

[qOcOp]

I really don't think something like this is necessary. Diablo has always been the type of game where you can fairly easily do some number crunching to try to validate a spec.

Besides, I think it's safe to assume there would be no good way to parse DPS without the help of an add-on. Merely mentioning the word add-on is going to make 50000 people flip out and say the game is too much like WoW, so I apologize in advance.

(Hey man i think thats too much like WoW) we dont take those things kindly round these parts:coffee: