Please suggest some Diablo 2 clasic 1.00 guides

[Ilumm]

I am planning to relive the old days of d2 clasic before everything else when WW by itself ruled and when leap attack struck no matter what the target did (ofc SP).

Can anyone link me to some guide on this seeing that all guides on the forum are for the latest version of the game?

[deichsela]

The BradyGames Diablo 2 guide book is for 1.00.

I don't think there are many guides for that version since there were six patches in under one year. Whirlwind was ridiculously powerful, starting at -50% damage and gaining +25% dmg/level. I think Concentration was entirely effective with Blessed Hammer. Orb / ThunderStorm worked well; Cold Mastery was worth only one point. Blood Golem plus Iron Maiden was insane. Guided Arrow plus Pierce could pierce a single target up to four times.

[Ilumm]

On this same note,what version do you consider the most fun to play?

[Akse]

1.06, most bugs fixed

in 1.00 corpse explosion is ridiculous too.. very large range, damage scales with amount of players in game.. you could kinda blow up the whole maggot lair with one shot or something :)

[KremBanan]

The most fun patch was the the last one before LoD came. 1.05 or 1.06 maybe?

[deichsela]

I'm having fun playing the current version.

[Andyhasit]

Hell cs seals and dia with my 1.00 sp ww barb

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=fvint1&s=5

[Akse]

Ooo yeah.. that life/mana leech is crazy in pre lod :P You get full leech. It's not really bad thing, just makes life leech less valuable in items, so you are not forced to seek leech for every possible item.

Old De Seis was mad :) conviction and all those mages with him :)

[Andyhasit]

If anybody wants to try out my barb I can send you the savefiles, its alot of work to get to that point so you'd be skipping straight to the dessert.

[Zelator]

Hi Andy, remember? I were the one who were supposed to play Classic v1.00 with ya! I even have you on msn lol.. I never got to do it though..

[Andyhasit]

Yeah I remember you wanting to play amazon, its good you never started it because I think its very close to being impossible to finish the sp with a bowazon. There were numerous times that I had to just constantly leap over enemymasses.. Veteran like skills required numerous times :)

[Andyhasit]

Somebody wanna make a 1.00 sorc? :givelove::
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot83z.jpg
remember no cast delays :cool:

[Ilumm]

Somebody wanna make a 1.00 sorc? :givelove::
http://img254.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot83z.jpg
remember no cast delays :cool:

Tempting. Care to explain a little more? Or maybe link to somesort of a guide?

[Andyhasit]

Sorry dont have any guidelinks, not sure if there even is any. You dont really need a guide in my opinion. Just thought if you'd make a sorc then i could gear you(uniques with no lvl req etc) and help you with quests via Tcp/ip, in that case if your serious about playing the char to hell. Starting with a low level sorc is painful especially when theres no mana pots to buy(max warmth required) but when you reach bigger levels its going to be great fun..

[Ilumm]

Sorry dont have any guidelinks, not sure if there even is any. You dont really need a guide in my opinion. Just thought if you'd make a sorc then i could gear you(uniques with no lvl req etc) and help you with quests via Tcp/ip, in that case if your serious about playing the char to hell. Starting with a low level sorc is painful especially when theres no mana pots to buy(max warmth required) but when you reach bigger levels its going to be great fun..

Thanks for the offer. I made a barb for the moment and it will take a while seeing that i play something like 15mins/day :D

[jel]

I am planning to relive the old days of d2 clasic before everything else when WW by itself ruled and when leap attack struck no matter what the target did (ofc SP).

Can anyone link me to some guide on this seeing that all guides on the forum are for the latest version of the game?

I have been playing 1.00 for some time now.

I'm going to build a Thorns+Conversion paladin as my next.

I have went far in the game with a sorc, charged bolts really rocks! Level 5 charged bolts kills monsters in nightmare.

Fireball can be very good as well, though level 8 fireball wasn't that impressive (better than level 5 charged bolt though)

Level 2 Glacial Spike really saved my sorc many time, that combined with Fireball got me through most of act4, though I decided to stay there to level up so I could get Frozen Orb later. Though the experience wasn't gaining quick enough for me, so I used a cheap trick, that being the maggot lair. In nightmare I activated the maggots off screen, then when I ran throguh the tunnel lots and lots af maggots had spawned, and Blizzard level 3 really rocks in 1.00 (no casting delay), so it didn't take long to get to level 30 this way.

Frozen orb has been very dissapointing, I think it's either bugged or there's a kind of a timer, since usually I'd expect at least 8 hits from an orb to a monster, but I often only get 2-3 hits, which is pretty much the same as blizzard.

Therefore I've decided to let her continue in 1.07 expansion later on.

I have also made an amazon, she was intended to be a 6 socketed Psaphire Freezing Arrow for protection, Lightning fury for mobs and Guided arrows for single targets.

Well Lightning fury isn't very impressive in 1.00, it's instead of triforks now real sorcerer lightnings that comes out.

That was my first char and I did first reach level 30 in act 3 hell with her, because I went to nightmare too early, so she didn't get much experience (level 20 I believe she was), and though I used all the points I could on lightning fury (she really got a lot of experience after 30 and ended up being level 36) 7 points, and the rest in charged strike, about 8 points I think (charged strike sucks in 1.00) she ended up being a frost maiden more than a furyzon.

Frozen arrow (the level 18 skill) is very good, with only 1 point in it and a lucky imbued cedar bow she could handle her way all to act 3 hell, but all the flayers got her numerous times, so I ended up going back to canyon of magic to level her (didn't know about the maggot lair bug then), and she got to level 30, got freezing arrow and lightning fury and got through the game.

I have also tried a ww-barb, that was the first time when I found the maggot lair, so I got him to level 33 cirka, though I didn't finish the game with him since I only used him for the 1:10 chance to gamble uniques in 1.00. But let me say it like this, whirlwind is very very good in 1.00 (and classic in general I believe) as it always attacks with the highest frame possible, eventhough I never found a good weapon to him (some damage enhanced Zweihander) he had no problems at all, I believe he was hardcore btw., now when thinking about it I guess he fell to hephasto in hell or something like that.

Finally I've made a necromancer, wanted to do the blood golem + iron maiden trick together with a corpse explosion with double range! He went easily through the game, and it was just a mistake that made him 1.12 when he was in act4 nightmare that ment I didn't continue on him.

Mana can be a major problem, which I've experienced so far, that's why I've decided to make the paladin as the first char that shouldn't have mana problems. So my experiences are:

Amazon:
Lightning fury - not very impressive, too mana expensive when comparing the damage
Freezing arrow - very good, crowd control is important and the damage from your bow apparently is transfered to the whole area of freezing.

Barbarian:
WW - very worth its cost in mana, but the game gets to easy pretty much unless you start doing stupid things such as go up against a strong opponent (Hephasto is always extra strong in 1.00 I believe) with no healing pots and a reduced life bulb.

Necromancer:
Corpse explosion rocks and blood golem + iron maiden gives a great safety, though remember to invest in golem mastery, iron maiden and summon resist since these are the skills that will keep your golem up. Corpse explosion is for speeding things up.

Paladin:
Haven't tried, but are going to make a conversion + thorns paladin. Maxing thorns.

Sorcerer:
Frozen orb is not worth it, blizzard is fun and cool (though pretty much the same as frozen orb in effectiveness, a bit cheaper in mana though), and finally Glacial spike is a life safer!

Try to avoid making chars that depends too much on mana!

Hell cs seals and dia with my 1.00 sp ww barb

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=fvint1&s=5

The mana leech in in your video reminds me, my sorc got a 7% mana leech ring from akara in the safe cain quest on normal, I don't think that's even possible in 1.12, and she used it well with an imbued axe to regain mana (it got 9-27 damage, which I still think was a great imbue, though her Fireball damage would eventually outdue it by far). On the same time my barb never got anything better than 2% mana leech or something like that I believe, a bit funny.

You said you had to skip some monsters, where? I never had to that for any chars except my barb and that was when he was leveling up to 30 in the maggot lair on nightmare, since he has no area of effect skills (no points invested in wacry) he couldn't remove maggots faster then they were produced, so I could practically level forever, but decided to stop as it got boring and I could only barely hold back the stream of young maggots comming out. Whereas my amazon never got into this problem as I didn't know about the bug, and my necromancer and sorc would easily take care of the problem with their area of effect damage.

[Ilumm]

So what is this maggot bug i hear so much about?

[Andyhasit]

Hey jel, can you play through tcp/ip? got any character at hell?

[jel]

Hey jel, can you play through tcp/ip? got any character at hell?

Hey

The amazon that went through ended up being 1.12 by accident, currently on this computer I only have the mentioned sorc and the newest paladin project, as the other 3 either fell (or maybe was just deleted I'm not certain really), or got converted to LoD 1.12.

My internet is a shared net with a router I don't have acces to, so I can't host, and I'm going away tomorrow where I won't have any diablo 2 nearby, but I can play in a 2 weeks time if you host, that is if you're interested in playing some hardcore with my paladin hehe, then I can remake him if it should be (he's somewhere in act1 normal right now).

Oh and I just remembered the ring you found, if you intended to give it to my sorc I'll have to say thanks, but no thanks, as the orb mechanics is unbearable for me I won't continue with her anytime soon (she'll probably become a 1.07 LoD sorc), and since (at least that was the case for my amazon) that the rares change when upgrading from 1.00 then it's pretty sad that very beautiful ring has no one to use it, after all I think it beats even every pvp ring I've ever seen, which usually are of quite high quality.

Finally I'll usually be able to play 1 hour pr. day, which is from 19:00 Copenhagen time to 20:00 Copenhagen time (I don't know the GMT system, sorry), I hope that time works for you, otherwise I can only say it'd have been great to have some company!

So what is this maggot bug i hear so much about?

I thought it was well known, but it's quite simple. In the newer version you don't get experience from killing blood maggot young (or any baby maggots for that matter). Now that's not the case in 1.00 classic. You do also get the same amount of experience (or just about) when an egg hatch, as when killling a single maggot young.

If you activate crazy spawning in the maggot lair level 3 (down at the quenn, I believe she spawns normal maggots who then spawns the baby maggots) at nightmare (300 exp pr. maggot young) and you have some kind of area of effect spell you can easily gain millions of experience. With the sorcerer I usually got about 150.000 experience pr. run, and ran it from level 23 or 24 to level 30.

I'm not certain how to exactly activate crazy spawning as it doesn't happen always, though I've had a 100% succes with the sorc (though her map was the same every run of course) with a map where she could go into a room close to the final boss room where I guess the monsters would get activated since I could see the light from the monsters (the light you see when there're monsters in a room that you haven't entered into yet). I guess that since I was to far away for them to attack they started producing eggs and normal maggots like mad, anyway I have done the same with the barbarian and he had a complete different map, though I don't remember it that well.

You know that you've a crazy spawn bug when you no longer can highligt the names of the maggots btw.

[Ilumm]

The other thing i can't get is how were you lvl 23 in NM A2? In LoD that was crazy. I am now lvl 21 with 1.00 barb at the start of A3.

[jel]

The other thing i can't get is how were you lvl 23 in NM A2? In LoD that was crazy. I am now lvl 21 with 1.00 barb at the start of A3.

In normal v. 1.00 I usually get to ~level 11 in act1, ~16 in act2 ~18 in act3 and ~20 in act4
Then comes nightmare which gives pretty much no experience at all at such a low level.

That's why I decided to use some extra time with my sorc, and eventhough I did that she was merely level 22 after act4 (or something like that, I think she either achieved 23 or 24 before the maggot lair).

In LoD I'd usually go past level 30 in act5 unless I took to long to get to level 25. (Which happened for my paladin, but he got like 10-15 levels in act5 nightmare in 1.07 LoD, so he got at a high level anyway (around 53 or something))

[Andyhasit]

Jel's right, i was lvl 20 too when i killed dia in normal, exp was/is annoyingly slow
http://img441.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot1g.jpg
Barb is lvl 70 atm and its pretty much the max level one can get playing alone, searching nostalgic items keeps some interest going. I dont get much rare or unique drops from monsters, no magic find from items either :(

[Ilumm]

I suppose there's no mod around that would allows /players x command.

[Akse]

I tried to find such mod but there is a mod for 1.06d that allows multiple clients on 1 computer. Getting 2 clients with you would boost the exp quite a bit.


Oh and I just remembered the ring you found, if you intended to give it to my sorc I'll have to say thanks, but no thanks, as the orb mechanics is unbearable for me I won't continue with her anytime soon (she'll probably become a 1.07 LoD sorc), and since (at least that was the case for my amazon) that the rares change when upgrading from 1.00 then it's pretty sad that very beautiful ring has no one to use it, after all I think it beats even every pvp ring I've ever seen, which usually are of quite high quality.
I'm not really sure what you mean with Orb mechanics. At least in 1.04-1.06 it was the best spell to use as a sorc. But remember Frozen Orb isn't really good on its own, you need static field with it. Also before LOD there was a bug with frozen orb that if you aim it directly at a monster.. it will do very little damage, you need to aim it little beside the monster.. then all the shards will do massive damage.

Anyways for pre-LOD sorc, best strategy to kill monsters:
- Throw 1 orb to slow them down
- Statick about 4-5 times
- Throw another orb to finish them.
Thats the most mana efficient and fastest way to kill monsters. Of course it's a bit different in players 1 when they basically die on 1 orb.

Also fastest cast rate items are king for sorc in pre-lod. +Skills aren't important at all because you do most of your damage with static field then finish of with a few quick orbs. The faster your static is cast , the faster the monsters die. And if sometimes you need burst with orb.. faster orb cast is bigger burst.

The general setup for sorc gear pre-LOD:
Wand with Fastest Cast Rate and mana.. you can shop from vendors or find a rare or Ume's Lament.
Wall of The Eyeless - unique bone shield with fastest cast rate
Magefists - Gloves with fastest cast rate
that will give you 3x fastest cast rate.. the maximum is 4x which is really fast and only achievable with the 3 above AND 2x fast cast items (rings or ring+amulet) 2xfast cast = 1 fastest cast

I have a 1.06 sorc under way but still so low level :) been playing too much in Battle.net lately.

For a barb you want to imbue your weapons at 29-34 or something levels. Generally it's not possible because you probably don't have any exceptional weapons at that point, unless you are able to trade on from your higher characters.

[WarlockCC]

If anybody, who has not played these version wonders what Orb was like, try to remember the times when battle.net was somewhat lagged and you where able to fire off a series of Orbs in a row, without those orbs costing mana and without them doing damage. Now imagine these orbs doing damage. That's what it's like if you can find yourself some "fastest cast rate" items in prelod and pre 1 second orb delay. :)

[deichsela]

I suppose there's no mod around that would allows /players x command. The first 1.10 beta would allow /players 64 :thumbup:

[jel]

searching nostalgic items keeps some interest going. I dont get much rare or unique drops from monsters, no magic find from items either :(

What kind of items are these? Though I can see from your ring some extremely powerfull rares are possible, then it's too bad that they apparently completely change when upped to a higher version and ATMA doesn't support 1.00 so you can't just mule it on/off. Uniques and Set can be gambled AFAIK, where uniques has a 1:10 chance, I don't know about sets though, so that pretty much removes all the items I had in my head.

I tried to find such mod but there is a mod for 1.06d that allows multiple clients on 1 computer. Getting 2 clients with you would boost the exp quite a bit

You mean similar to the /playersx command right? Otherwise it just sounds like tcp/ip to me.



Also before LOD there was a bug with frozen orb that if you aim it directly at a monster.. it will do very little damage, you need to aim it little beside the monster.. then all the shards will do massive damage.

That's exactly what I mean, but I often only find monsters in groups of 5-20 (or something like that) and the if the orb just pierces through 1 single monster no monster will be damaged, so the orb will be cast in a direction where the shards will have a hard time hitting the far side of the group. Comparing that to blizzard which does about the same damage (both level 3), and can both be spammed, then I often find Blizzard hitting as much as Orb on the target that the Orb is going just becide, but with Blizzard every target is hit.

I didn't know about static field was so effective, I've only given it one point and then used it against bosses, I'll try to boost it a bit and get the cast rate items you suggest by gambling, just have to harvest some gold which is quite easy, though time consuming (shouldn't have dropped all that +100% gold find magic gear I found haha).


For a barb you want to imbue your weapons at 29-34 or something levels. Generally it's not possible because you probably don't have any exceptional weapons at that point, unless you are able to trade on from your higher characters.

If this is for 1.00 then I can tell you my barb had only gone above that level when he had his zweihander because I used the maggot lair bug, if I had just gone straight through as with my zon (though she was leveling from 27->30 in canyon of magic in hell) then I believe he'd have been at that level when he had his zweihander.

If anybody, who has not played these version wonders what Orb was like, try to remember the times when battle.net was somewhat lagged and you where able to fire off a series of Orbs in a row, without those orbs costing mana and without them doing damage. Now imagine these orbs doing damage. That's what it's like if you can find yourself some "fastest cast rate" items in prelod and pre 1 second orb delay. :)

I actually didn't know this before I played, I was surprised when first blizzard had no delay, then later on finding a +1 meteor staff I saw this skill had no delay as well, I wonder if Hydras has no delay as well they could be very good.

The first 1.10 beta would allow /players 64 :thumbup:

Would that also really be like 64 players? That would allow level 99 with ease wouldn't it?

[Andyhasit]

Jel, by a nostalgic item i meant for example
a Ward with no all resistances
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4650/screenshot53aj5.jpg

theres many items, rares and uniques to be found with changed/weird stats,
old thread http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702355

[jel]

Jel, by a nostalgic item i meant for example
a Ward with no all resistances
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/4650/screenshot53aj5.jpg

theres many items, rares and uniques to be found with changed/weird stats,
old thread http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=702355

Okay, but just to be certain, you're aware of 10% of everything you gamble will be unique as long as it hasn't been "dropped" already? For instance if you create a game and go to the gamble window and a duskdeep is spawned as an unidentified full helm, then the game sees it as has been "dropped" and it will therefore not spawn again, however when enough gold have been collected, you can start a new game and empty gamble screen after gamble screen (ignoring what uniques/sets you already got in that game) and thereby getting all uniques and sets. That's at least how I understand it works in 1.00.

[Andyhasit]

Nope didnt know that, ive gambled two uniques so far i think. Its annoying that gamble window doesnt get updated and its hard to gamble rings and amus when they arent even present every time..

[jel]

Nope didnt know that, ive gambled two uniques so far i think. Its annoying that gamble window doesnt get updated and its hard to gamble rings and amus when they arent even present every time..

Yes I agree, but at least you're not in fear of having missed anything as long as you stay in town, though it's quite risky to start gambling after having been to town several times.

I actually to begin with only started on 1.00 because I needed the unique short sword with crushing blow for a 1.07 char, who ended up with some safety gambled weapon in stead off, but always had the sword on switch.

[jel]

Sorry for the bump.

@Andyhasit

You never answered if the time suited you or if you weren't available for multiplayer at the suggested time?

[Andyhasit]

You've got pm.

[jel]

Just checking up on if you got my reply.

[Andyhasit]

Yeah im up for muling asap and softcore action(bowazon maybe) but nothing concerning hc, thats just all risk and no gain in singleplayer. Lets talk later in msn.

[The Vortex]

You don't mind if I join you in 1.00 ? :)
I was thinking of making somewhat rare build even in 1.00 (Immolation arrow zon or Spearzon), anyone has tried that on 1.00? Is it worthwhile?

[jel]

You don't mind if I join you in 1.00 ? :)
I was thinking of making somewhat rare build even in 1.00 (Immolation arrow zon or Spearzon), anyone has tried that on 1.00? Is it worthwhile?

You're welcome to join if you ask me, though I don't think Andyhasit is up for playing hardcore and as that is the only thing I'm doing I guess all we can do for now is mule for eachother.

About the skills, well I've no idea, but everything seems so different in 1.00, Lightning fury isn't nearly as good (bolts replaced by the same lightning as the sorc has), Frozen orb doesn't hit any targets after the ice shooting ball hits an enemy, Freezing arrow works very well together with pierce, Whirlwind rocks, the same goes for Corpse explosion, Skeletons aren't really worth the investment and Blood golem + Iron maiden is a great combo to hold back physical enemies, probably a lot more to add that I've forgotten or haven't found out about yet. Though the greatest concern for me has often been the lack of available mana potions, so I've often been forced to either use damage goes to mana or mana leech, though for some reason I find quite a lot of nightsmoke belts.

[The Vortex]

You're welcome to join if you ask me, though I don't think Andyhasit is up for playing hardcore and as that is the only thing I'm doing I guess all we can do for now is mule for eachother.

Actually I'm a hardcore player too (at least on classic battle.net) and I played a lot of very hard mods and I have enough hardcore experience.

As for the builds I tried making fully skilled chars with hero editor to test all the skills, and all I can say is:

Amazon: Freeze/Immolation/L Fury all work good with Valkyre tanking (she is great at tanking though). Multishot is solo hell CS cleaner, hands down.

Sorceress: Hydra + Static Field is one of best combinations. Add glacial spike and you will have fun.

Paladin: I read your build about conversion + thorns. I tried and it really works well. Now imagine combining thorns with iron maiden and monster will 1-2 hit kill themselves. Vengeance + conviction is mediocre as it is Zeal+Concentration/Fanaticism.

Barbarian: about WW it's all said. Frenzy is great but with high lifeleech only. Then you will have fastest char running around, hehe. Dual nagas work pretty well, although your damage will be around 200+, with very high attack speed you'll be killing monsters very fast.

Necromancer: Iron maiden + blood golem is great and I think I'll be making one if we are going to play together. I would also add revives since they are really great as meat shield for your iron maiden when you are surrounded with monsters.


Feel free to pm me if you wanna play.

[jel]

Actually I'm a hardcore player too (at least on classic battle.net) and I played a lot of very hard mods and I have enough hardcore experience.

As for the builds I tried making fully skilled chars with hero editor to test all the skills, and all I can say is:

Amazon: Freeze/Immolation/L Fury all work good with Valkyre tanking (she is great at tanking though). Multishot is solo hell CS cleaner, hands down.

Sorceress: Hydra + Static Field is one of best combinations. Add glacial spike and you will have fun.

Paladin: I read your build about conversion + thorns. I tried and it really works well. Now imagine combining thorns with iron maiden and monster will 1-2 hit kill themselves. Vengeance + conviction is mediocre as it is Zeal+Concentration/Fanaticism.

Barbarian: about WW it's all said. Frenzy is great but with high lifeleech only. Then you will have fastest char running around, hehe. Dual nagas work pretty well, although your damage will be around 200+, with very high attack speed you'll be killing monsters very fast.

Necromancer: Iron maiden + blood golem is great and I think I'll be making one if we are going to play together. I would also add revives since they are really great as meat shield for your iron maiden when you are surrounded with monsters.


Feel free to pm me if you wanna play.

Hi Vortex, thank you for your reply, sounds great. You probably have more hardcore experience than I've then.

For me the problem with Lfury was that I never ran into enough targets for it to be more effective than freezing arrow and with freezing arrow I believe I'd about enough mana leech to maintain mana, while Lfury drained it all quickly (though I don't remember very well, and I think you're right, Lfury is great, but you've to be able to get your mana back unless you don't want to take a tp very often (which I find a bit game broken)).

My experience with glacial spike does also tell me that it's a very good skill, though it was on normal difficulty (she's somewhere in nightmare, haven't played the last couple of weeks), she could freeze every one of the grand viziers minions with a single glacial spike.

Sounds great that my build will work and even greater that you'll play a necromancer as I believe that's the optimal partner. Yes I think Iron maiden would work well together with the build, however as thorns (not certain if it applies for 1.00 also) have a higher damage returned than Iron maiden, then I think Amplify damage would work even better as it doubles the damage returned. With thorns active your golem would still leech life (I hope), but anyway we can test both skills if you're up for it and see what works best together with thorns and what gives most safety. You can actually even defeat v.1.12 using thorns + conversion + amplify damage according to this thread:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=692851&page=2
It is possible to kill using the returned damage from Thorns-enchanted converts even in Hell, although you'll be unable to rely heavily upon it even against mêlée monsters due to AI (running away when wounded is distressingly common behaviour). However, in order to do so effectively you need to reduce Damage Resist % of both converts and their attackers.

The Black Rogues of the Outer Cloister and Barracks are level 70 in Hell and have 2,674-4,457 base life, 44-88 base damage... and DR 20%. Let's assume level 36 Thorns (1,650% damage returned) is applied to a convert:


Damage Taken 44- 88
DR 20% 35- 70
Damage Returned 580-1,161
DR 20% 464- 929
Bear in mind that monsters regenerate, so the number of hits required to kill a Black Rogue will be more than that calculated by dividing life by returned damage. Even if you are able to stop regeneration with poison damage, Open Wounds or Prevent Monster Heal, DR % can significantly reduce both damage taken and damage returned.

Now... let's assume the Paladin uses Smite to apply a Lacerator Winged Axe's 33% Chance To Cast Level 3 Amplify Damage On Striking to the Black Rogues before Conversion, so that both the convert and her attackers are cursed with AD (DR -100%):


Damage Taken 44- 88
DR -80% 79- 158
Damage Returned 1,306-2,613
DR -80% 2,352-4,704
That returned damage will often be enough to kill them with a single hit, and there's 5% chance of a critical hit doubling the damage taken and thus returned.

The last character I played before retiring was a Paladin using Thorns, Conversion and AD in such a way: a report of Guardian Thorn can be found by searching the Amazon Basin's Paladin forum. It's certainly possible, but I wouldn't say it's powerful and it's not really party-friendly... although it can be a lot of fun against Extra Strong, Cursed, Aura Enchanted Unique monsters and their minions...



Converts will still be reduced to a couple of hit points once Conversion expires if character level < monster level. Conversion can also be a useful source of crowd control for Paladins using single-target attacks: those using Zeal or Blessed Hammer probably won't have much use for it.
Though the bug with conversion makes me feel a bit weird I guess it's to live with, if you want to exploit it you could of course always use a fire golem or something like that (something that hits all the time, everywere).

I don't have much comments for other paladin variants or frenzy barbs as I've no experience in that area myself, but I think it's a very good idea to use Revives.

I play usually around 19 copenhagen time (7 pm copenhagen time, just remembered it's am/pm somewhere in stead of 00-24). I'll usually play an hour at a time, trying to get a waypoint so areas won't have to repeated, is that acceptable with you?
I usually take about an hour to get from the start to the outer cloister waypoint (sometimes skipping the countess),
1 hour to take down the rest of act 1
1 hour to get to the summoner waypoint (and sometimes I even manage to get both the staff, the amulet and the cube, I often go for the amulet first as it opens up for the palace and you'll then have the entire map)
1 hour to get to the lower kurast waypoint (though I usually have to go back for the organs afterwards)
a bit more than 1 hour to finish act3
1 hour to get to the river of flame
1 hour to finish act4

That was the result I had with the sorc at least and that was without teleporting, I guess I'm pretty slow, but anyway let me hear what you think, if the time suits you and we can play maybe 1-2 times a week (depending on your schedual of course) then if my time approximation is correct the chars would take 7*3/2=10,5 weeks to complete the game, or 21 hours in total (though I have always taken long to finish act3). The time measurements I made was only on normal, I suppose it will actually be faster on the higher difficulties as we'll have our main skills which works in a way that makes us kill stronger monster faster (as it doesn't seem like the health of monsters rises more than their damage in 1.00, at least that's my experience), oh and if you're going to use Corpse Explosion (you only mentioned curses and summoning skills, so I didn't assume anything) then you'll rule the game.

Edit: I just remembered, if Andyhasit isn't up for it, then we won't be able to play unless you're able to host.
Oh and how did spearzon / immolation arrow zon work in the editor?

[Andyhasit]

Your planning on playing 1hour one or two times a week and hardcore, that means if you die even at normal act4 or further it will take you like a week or more to get back, thats really not worth the risk and its not fun doing all the acts again. Anyway the playing time seems pretty low to me, count me out.

Whos up for softcore 1.00? My barb can support all the waypoints etc

[jel]

Anyway the playing time seems pretty low to me, count me out.

I'm sorry to hear that, maybe we'll be able to play some other time though?

Your planning on playing 1hour one or two times a week and hardcore, that means if you die even at normal act4 or further it will take you like a week or more to get back, thats really not worth the risk and its not fun doing all the acts again.
If that was the case I'd play softcore, but for me, when a hardcore char goes down, then I don't rebuild, as that seems for me to be like softcore, just more turmenting.

[The Vortex]

I'm available on weekdays on that time, since you are in the same time zone as me (Central European Time) but weekend is even better. Anyway up to you, I'm available at evenings (mostly).

As for spearzon/immolation. Fend is bugged as it is in all versions so that build is like 2 sided blade. You need 0 points in evade skills, because when they trigger the Fend animation gets bugged and all hits do 0 damage to enemies. Same applies on hit recovery animation. Beside that fend with lance as weapon gives you great damage though.
Immolation is like equivalent to Freeze, you just need to have maxed Valkyire to hold monsters until your pyres from Immolation arrow stack on them. Great thing is that on skill lvl 20 the fires stay for about minute or so. Then again the skill is also mana hungry, but that's the price you pay off. Anyway i can kill monsters in act 4 on hell at reasonable speed rate.

Finally regarding my necro build. I actually plan to play without CE because I don't like to play cookie cutter build while in team. My initial build would be something like: Maxing Iron maiden (to get around 700%+ damage returned) + maxing Blood Golem and Golem Mastery. After that I will work on revives to get more safety in hell.
That way with your thorns we might get over 2k% damage returned which would eventually 1 hit kill some monsters. With revives there is more meat shield to hit, so it speeds up the process.

Anyway I would like to hear your thought and the day you want us to start.


I'll usually play an hour at a time, trying to get a waypoint so areas won't have to repeated, is that acceptable with you?
Edit: I just remembered, if Andyhasit isn't up for it, then we won't be able to play unless you're able to host.


I can host, that's not a problem. by the way, I usually play by visiting each area and clearing it of monsters. That way I get the most xp and I can finish normal at level 25-26 and in hardcore it's better to be overleveled sometimes. I also like to play untwinked in team because it's nice to play with the items you find by playing not farming (exceptions can be made).

[jel]

Thanks for your reply

I'm available on weekdays on that time, since you are in the same time zone as me (Central European Time) but weekend is even better. Anyway up to you, I'm available at evenings (mostly).

Yes I think Copenhagen is CMT+1 (so when it's 19:44 on this home page it's 20:44 where I'm) (As it's summer time it's actually CMT+2, but then it's CMT+1 in England, etc.). Sounds great! Weekend is also the best for me, but generally I'll be available on the time I wrote, I'm going to send you a private message with my messenger adress, given you use that (if not just ignore it), so it's easier to set up playing.


As for spearzon/immolation. Fend is bugged as it is in all versions so that build is like 2 sided blade. You need 0 points in evade skills, because when they trigger the Fend animation gets bugged and all hits do 0 damage to enemies. Same applies on hit recovery animation. Beside that fend with lance as weapon gives you great damage though.
Immolation is like equivalent to Freeze, you just need to have maxed Valkyire to hold monsters until your pyres from Immolation arrow stack on them. Great thing is that on skill lvl 20 the fires stay for about minute or so. Then again the skill is also mana hungry, but that's the price you pay off. Anyway i can kill monsters in act 4 on hell at reasonable speed rate.

Incredible that the fend bug is so old and yet Blizzard haven't fixed it yet.
Immolation arrow sounds cool, I know Freezing arrow worked really well, but when thinking back, I guess I used Ice arrow (the level 18 skill) mostly and Freezing arrow against a pack of monsters. That was probably the way that she didn't run out of mana.


Finally regarding my necro build. I actually plan to play without CE because I don't like to play cookie cutter build while in team. My initial build would be something like: Maxing Iron maiden (to get around 700%+ damage returned) + maxing Blood Golem and Golem Mastery. After that I will work on revives to get more safety in hell.
I have the same ideas about cookie cutters, though remember when we go up against someone like Lord De Seis that our damage return won't do any good as they never hit in melee (AFAIK that is), so it would be nice to have something there, though I do think that revives may actually be able to kill something (I don't know if you tested this) in 1.00 as monsters hit point isn't extremely much bigger than their damage like in 1.12. And thank you for sharing the details about the build, it's nice to know what to expect. I'm probably going to start on concentrating on Thorns, then get Conversion up and whatever is leftover would be invested in Holy Shield. Unless you've some ideas of course.


That way with your thorns we might get over 2k% damage returned which would eventually 1 hit kill some monsters. With revives there is more meat shield to hit, so it speeds up the process.

Anyway I would like to hear your thought and the day you want us to start.

I agree with that, though I think we should also compare the combination of Thorns + Amplify Damage, as that according to the link I gave in my previous response might actually do more damage return than Iron Maiden + Thorns (though as you'd probably like to be able to play solo on the Necromancer later, I can understand why Iron Maiden is the better option).


I can host, that's not a problem.

Great, that's my biggest fear, that you couldn't, as I don't think Andyhasit will join, though I still hope he'll change his mind.


by the way, I usually play by visiting each
area and clearing it of monsters. That way I get the most xp and I can finish normal at level 25-26 and in hardcore it's better to be overleveled sometimes. I also like to play untwinked in team because it's nice to play with the items you find by playing not farming (exceptions can be made).
It's nice of you to mention this, so let's get the "game play" straight, as I think it's best to do so before hand.
I accept that we overlevel a bit by visiting each area and clear it, though it'll probably mean we'll use more time than before, and should probably try to find out which waypoints to shoot for (as I'll most likely only have 1 hour (to maybe 1.5 hour) of game time pr. day). It would be great if we can get to level 24-25 around the end of normal, as that way we'll actually get some experience in nightmare, I believe experience do to a large degree work the same way as in LoD, where if you haven't reached level 25 you'll get minor experience in nightmare, but from 25 and up you're good to go. However as 1.00 usually doesn't give that much challenge (though all my chars except the barb was defensive chars (Amazon, Necromancer, Sorcerers) I might be mistaking) then I don't think we have to go through areas several times just to be certain to get a couple of more levels later in the game (that's given we don't reach level 25 before nightmare, which I have a feeling we won't, even when we clear the entire game).

I agree, let's play untwinked all the way, with no area repetition (unless there're some you really want), that's what I also like best, though I'll probably still try to gamble a bit at gheeds to get that Rixot's Keen ;) (as I think that is pretty close to an end game weapon as it gives 25% crushing blow (which works great with smite) to use against bosses, and it has low damage so Iron Maiden from Oblivion Knights won't be much of a problem.)

I think there was something more I should mention, but I can't remember it right now, ah well I'll probably remember it later then.

Edit: Just remembered something else, I think I mentioned it before in the thread, but anyway, if I loose a char, then I don't rebuild it, as that for me is like playing softcore, just more tedious, I don't want to get to bonded with a given char, and I want the adreneline kick when I survive a risky situation (which I don't get with softcore chars), and I don't want to have any excuse for not doing my best (which I've with softcore chars especially around waypoints). However you're of course welcome to rebuild your char if you loose it, I'll wait for you then untill you've reached the same area or level, whatever you prefer.
Finally for me it does also kind of add a story to it, it's like for instance if I lost my char, and you complete the game at some later point, the story of your necromancer would be that he to begin with was allied with another person, but this person was lost in the battle, and in this way it add a flavour to the story, that is often seen in a "romantic" way, though very tragic in the real world (which this fortunaly isn't, hehe).

[Akse]

I actually didn't know this before I played, I was surprised when first blizzard had no delay, then later on finding a +1 meteor staff I saw this skill had no delay as well, I wonder if Hydras has no delay as well they could be very good
There are no cast delays in any skills, fist of heavens is fun without :) but not so powerful. Hydras are ok, but IIRC fire mastery don't work with them, not sure tho should be tested. Meteor is quite fun without cast delays, and with firewall you can fill up the whole chaos sanctuary with flames, but it will make the game lag badly :). Blizzard and orbs are probably the best ones because of cold mastery and the slow effect, really important in hell. But in 1 player pretty much everything works.

Nope didnt know that, ive gambled two uniques so far i think. Its annoying that gamble window doesnt get updated and its hard to gamble rings and amus when they arent even present every time..
Try to find act1 map where the entrance to town is close to gheed(left side). Or gamble in act2 by running to sewers and back to greiz.

[jel]

Try to find act1 map where the entrance to town is close to gheed(left side). Or gamble in act2 by running to sewers and back to greiz.

It's elzix ;), but yes it's a bit tiresome that you've to leave town every time when gambling in this version. Though I like that you gamble at the guy who sells mercenaries, yet I guess we all do that when hiring from this guy :D.

[jel]

Sorry for bumping, but I think I just realised some valueable content to think about.

Though I don't know how much cast rate you can achieve in this version let's just assume a sorc can hit approx 3 attacks pr. second. As I've understood in from this thread a hydra lasts 10 seconds, that's a maximum of 30 hydras!

Just think about it, a conviction paladin and a hydra sorc (with static as fire mastery apperently doesn't work with hydra), so the two chars finds a spot, the sorc sets up the hydras and the paladin lures the monsters in the area, the firebolts starts flying like crazy, everything gets static and the paladin can with ease take everything out with zeal, even use hammers as most monsters hit point will be so low that these would not need a boost from concentration. That'd be some field of damage.

[Akse]

It's elzix ;), but yes it's a bit tiresome that you've to leave town every time when gambling in this version. Though I like that you gamble at the guy who sells mercenaries, yet I guess we all do that when hiring from this guy :D.

Yeah I messed them up.. haven't been gambling in act2 for a long time :D Btw its not so bad to run over and over again when you know that you can actually get some good items there.. unlike how it has been after LOD. :)

Sorry for bumping, but I think I just realised some valueable content to think about.

Though I don't know how much cast rate you can achieve in this version let's just assume a sorc can hit approx 3 attacks pr. second. As I've understood in from this thread a hydra lasts 10 seconds, that's a maximum of 30 hydras!

Just think about it, a conviction paladin and a hydra sorc (with static as fire mastery apperently doesn't work with hydra), so the two chars finds a spot, the sorc sets up the hydras and the paladin lures the monsters in the area, the firebolts starts flying like crazy, everything gets static and the paladin can with ease take everything out with zeal, even use hammers as most monsters hit point will be so low that these would not need a boost from concentration. That'd be some field of damage.

Yeah I had an editor some time ago and made some characters to 1.06 for nostalgic reasons. I tried out hydra build with max fastest cast rate.. and counted something like 36 hydras at the same time :)

One problem with hydras was that the mastery didn't work with them IIRC. So the damage isn't that high.. and also 36 hydras drain like 800 mana or something. Hydras used to be a method of PK already at 1.04 or something, they were really nasty with that 640x480 resolution because you could hide them behind you and when the target game closer to you, you could tp and hostile :)

Max cast rate before LOD goes like this:
Magefists (Fastest cast rate)
Wand or shard (Fastest cast rate) Also I think I read somewhere that Faster is the same as Fastest in wands, its the same Magus suffix.
Wall of the Eyeless (Fastest cast rate)
2x fast cast items in rings or amulet.

Thats 4x fastest cast rate which is the maximum and equivalent for 105 breakpoint nowadays.

[BoD Trader]

Try to find act1 map where the entrance to town is close to gheed(left side). Or gamble in act2 by running to sewers and back to greiz.

Or open the cow portal by gheed. (i think cows were in 1.00 tho i've never played it so cant be sure :))

[jel]

Thanks for your reply Akse, the reason I suggested static was exactly due to fire mastery doesn't work, as enough hydras will hit every target quite quickly, and with static taking everyone down to 1-3 hits it makes it quite effective, or so could I imagine. Though max warmth, a lot of points in energy and stuff like that should of course be used (frostburns+sojs I'd guess, though it would mean no 105 bp).

Or open the cow portal by gheed. (i think cows were in 1.00 tho i've never played it so cant be sure :))

Unless you can open the secret cow level in act 2 I don't think that'll work.

[BoD Trader]

Unless you can open the secret cow level in act 2 I don't think that'll work.

Gheed being that well known act 2 npc......

[jel]

Gheed being that well known act 2 npc......

How weird, I can see it says Gheeds, but when I replied back then I was convinced you'd written Elzix, anyway I agree with your point, taking advantage of the cow level portal is a nice way to gamble quick.

I think I'll suggest that to The Vortex. Thank you.

[ancalagon]

Hell cs seals and dia with my 1.00 sp ww barb

http://tinypic.com/player.php?v=fvint1&s=5

You just brought tears to my eyes.

I just installed Classic and patched it to 1.06. Single Player .... Currently in Act 2 (Normal) Level 13 Sorc ... going for a SF / Orb with some points in Meteor - Hydra - Fire Mastery. What do you guys think, is this hybrid viable?

[Andyhasit]

Nice to hear, if you want to try out the barb i can give you the save files.

[Oldih]

I remember having SP paladin in 1.00 that had point practically in every aura, points pumped in useless skills and other nonsensical stuff involved.

But as for a build suggestion, I'm up with the iron maiden\blood golem combination or FoHladin. The latter was quite hilarious though as the lack of castdelay made it quite of a lightshow back then against group of enemies.

[ancalagon]

Nice to hear, if you want to try out the barb i can give you the save files.

Wow you sure?? That would be really nice :) Dont worry I wont post any vids saying its my Barb. Want to send to my email (Gmail account)? I'm running 1.06 atm seems you were running on previous patch as DeSeis still had thieving, will this make a difference?

PS I cant believe back then everything was in the low thousands ... AR, defense, damage ... and you could get by just fine! I forgot how much monsters got beefed up after 1.09.

[ancalagon]

I just tried reinstalling the game from CD and running it at v1.00 but it gives me an Unhandled Exception error every time :( When I patch to 1.01 it wont give me the error, but it will just start and go back to desktop. Couldnt find 1.02 patch online, worked fine when I installed 1.03 ..... but now ....

The Barb's whirlwind skill seems already nerfed? What kind of damage modifier does your Barb's WW skill do, (Andyhasit)? You running 1.00 right>? Have you had the same problems as me upon installing?

EDIT: I ran it in DirectDraw instead of D3D and game hasnt crashed yet.

[Andyhasit]

Yeah had the same problems with D3D so i used draw too. Just mailed you the files, let me know if you get it to work.
I think you must use version 1.00

[WarlockCC]

I think you can open older save files, it will 'upgrade' them to it's version.
After that 'upgrade', the files can only be opened by that version or newer versions(newer versions will ofcourse also 'upgrade' them to their own version).

[Andyhasit]

The items will turn weird though if you play a 1.00 character in 1.12 for example,
check this out:

http://img195.imageshack.us/i/freakyn.jpg/

1.12 didnt understand my rare items either so it randomly generated new stats for them, ornate and ancient axe turned out to be really bad :(