View Full Version : teleport through walls?
manabanana
24-02-2009, 21:25
I remember in d2, even though i no longer play, that you could blindly tele through walls to pass the map or level very quickly if you know where your going... like a meph run for instance.
do you guys think this is going to be the case for the wizzard? Obviously this gave the sorc in d2 a huge advantage when doing boss runs.
Thanks
Manabanana :thumbsup:
Keighvin
24-02-2009, 21:35
As far as we know, based on the videos Blizzard has released, teleport will be LoS only, no wall jumping.
manabanana
24-02-2009, 21:40
hmm that would kinda defeat of the name eh? Teleport? I guess it should be called small time jump or something eh :crazyeyes: but who knows i really hope that you can at least go into areas you already explored. I mean the whole purpose of teleporting is to cover ground faster isnt it?
i was always a sorc guy in d2 because of her ability to blow past all those enemys you really didnt want to deal with especially when you were so much more powerful than them it was just a waste of time.
I guess time will tell :D
Manabanana
Who knows, since runes will be there to customize skills you may very well be able to pass through walls with the correct skill rune. It doesn't seem that it is an innate ability judging from the way it's used in the game play videos.
Keighvin
25-02-2009, 04:26
The point of teleport was to act as a defense skill to get distance for the sorc. It's intended use was not to skip entire dungeons to go kill the boss for loot. They are simply making teleport more like it was intended to be.
KillaMike
25-02-2009, 13:06
The point of teleport was to act as a defense skill to get distance for the sorc. It's intended use was not to skip entire dungeons to go kill the boss for loot. They are simply making teleport more like it was intended to be.
and it woulld be very time consuming to do boss runs. if you remember, soso could tele, but her problem been that she was weaker then other chars ( classic any way ) and to do some damage you should have one tree build, which corupted sorc with immunes that were.... erm....immune
korialstraz
25-02-2009, 14:00
According to Blizz they want to make this game more about area clearing than boss running, so not being able to teleport through walls would be perfectly fine for that :)
KillaMike
25-02-2009, 14:30
According to Blizz they want to make this game more about area clearing than boss running, so not being able to teleport through walls would be perfectly fine for that :)
and what regarding looooooot? :crazyeyes:
korialstraz
25-02-2009, 15:00
What about loot? It's not like monsters don't drop loot in D2 if that's what you mean :scratchhead:
Knight_Wolf
25-02-2009, 17:51
I mean the whole purpose of teleporting is to cover ground faster isnt it?
Nope, the purpose of Teleport in D3 according to Blizz is to create some distance between the wizard and his/her enemies or escape when surrounded ... or even use it as an offensive skill like shown in gameplay Vid ... but certainly not for skipping through levels :crazyeyes:
BelushiEightyOneX
25-02-2009, 23:39
Didn't I read that there is a delay in the teleport??? it couldn't be used like the one in DII anyway???
Ouroboros
26-02-2009, 03:08
Don't know about a delay, but the gameplay video showed the Wiz teleporting pretty fast.
Anyways, I'm speculating that Teleport HAS to be LoS, simply because there are multiple levels shown at certain times. i.e. you can be on a higher level, while you see things happening and monsters doing stuff on lower levels. If teleport was all encompassing, then theoretically the wiz could teleport up and down levelsas well. i foresee problems if thats the scenario. From the descriptions of the blizzcon demo, there was a scripted event where the player was passing along a higher level, when a monster (igor-like) went up to a cultist on the level below. Igor's voice could then be heard saying that the summoning (of Leoric) had been successful. The player later faces these bad dudes in the dungeon. (I read this from blizzcon reports on this site .. I'll try to find the link if anyone needs a source)
Allowing Teleport through walls and up/down levels throws off this possibility. So, in conclusion, I think tele is going to be Los only, and only on the horizontal level where you are situated.
Its not really a delay, its just that the animation for it takes longer than in D2.
KillaMike
26-02-2009, 10:32
i hope it is gonna be bugged like in d2, cause it gave cutting edge over any other char in d2, i hope it stays this way O_O
Brother Laz
26-02-2009, 16:46
i was always a sorc guy in d2 because of her ability to blow past all those enemys you really didnt want to deal with especially when you were so much more powerful than them it was just a waste of time.
You mean to say: I liked Teleport because the only thing worth killing was bosses and the rest of the game was filled with useless monsters that were too easy to be a threat and dropped junk, so all of the game was just to waste time on the way to the boss.
This is exactly what is wrong with D2, and let's hope that instead of 'fixing' Teleport, they make anything without a gold name actually worth killing and tough enough to be a slight threat as well. Considering Teleport worked exactly the same in D1 and it was almost useless except as an attack method for the warrior against running enemies...
......
i hope it is gonna be bugged like in d2, cause it gave cutting edge over any other char in d2, i hope it stays this way O_O
Yeah, let's make one character overpowered so if you want to win then you have to play a specific class[/get a specific item] and all other builds and classes are for noobs and losers.
BelushiEightyOneX
26-02-2009, 19:28
Allowing Teleport through walls and up/down levels throws off this possibility. So, in conclusion, I think tele is going to be Los only, and only on the horizontal level where you are situated.
Why not up or down levels?? I don't get that one... I get LOS limits, but not why horizontal movements (if you were looking down from a balcony or something where you did have LOS) would be a problem..
The problem is that if you watch the video again, you can see other floors and structures that Barb can't actually go to. The devs don't want you teleporting there.
The point of teleport was to act as a defense skill to get distance for the sorc. It's intended use was not to skip entire dungeons to go kill the boss for loot. They are simply making teleport more like it was intended to be.
If it was intended to be a defensive skill, I guess they'd have put a timer on it in the first place.
AxlStrife
26-02-2009, 22:54
It woul irritate me to no end if Tele could go through walls and doors. I guess I've always viewed Teleport as Nightcrawler's version (only tele where you, the character, can see), but I see the flaw in this with the over-the-top camera view, so as a defensive move with a relatively short range (half-screen) it would get my thumbs up.
Keighvin
26-02-2009, 23:06
If it was intended to be a defensive skill, I guess they'd have put a timer on it in the first place.
Well, I don't remember very well, but I don't think any skills in D2C had timers or cooldowns so the fact teleport didn't have them is of no consequence.
Bladewind
27-02-2009, 16:49
Teleporting will still be a hell lot faster than say walking. A wiz can teleport through a choke point with thousands of enemies crawling there. The barb has to bash his way through.
That is fair enough. As for running areas let's not forget that most mobs tend to give crap for drops, only bosses give a fair shot at unique and godly rares. The boss might be dangerous but sometimes the rewards are worth it.
No spammable mana pots. I am 95% certain that trying to do D2-esque teleport fests will get you dead unless your character is powerful enough to have done that with just walking in the first place.
Teleporting will still be a hell lot faster than say walking. A wiz can teleport through a choke point with thousands of enemies crawling there. The barb has to bash his way through.
That is fair enough. As for running areas let's not forget that most mobs tend to give crap for drops, only bosses give a fair shot at unique and godly rares. The boss might be dangerous but sometimes the rewards are worth it.
So what's it like in the future dude?
They are trying to make it where playing normally is a great way to get stuff, because they don't want people just boss running, so you don't know what normal mobs will be dropping.
Bladewind
28-02-2009, 08:03
Looking from the original gameplay movie, the mobs in D3 actually drop a lot less than their D2 counterparts despite the numbers that are coming at you. It was the chest and the 2 bosses that gave good drops.
As for area running, I am sure that many who have played in the pits, hell cows and chaos sanctuary are already aware of the good drops that might appear. I personally got great drops in there and they are easy areas to run with the properly gear type character.
But if you have played any MMO or any RPG for that matter a boss is usually guaranteed a magical or rare item drop at the minimum. That alone is a powerful factor, since its guarantees a chance that you might strike gold. Unless they reverse the equation but that won't make any sense. ;)
Regular mobs do drop items but with less frequency. And besides doing Chaos Sanctuary is killing everything including Diablo so not like you will miss out anything. Area runs will be no different from Chaos Runs or the good ol Bloody Runs. Just kill everything then the big boss or in this case for Bloody Runs, the boss first then the area.
korialstraz
28-02-2009, 13:44
That demo or movie could have been scripted to not reveal items and the chest can be rigged to drop whatever they want just to get that movie right. Besides I doubt all items are done and implemented into the game yet, which could also explain the lack of drops in game. You seem to assume that since D2 was about bosses so will D3, and base your reasoning on a game in it's alpha stage.
Bladewind
01-03-2009, 05:11
Yes but you have to understand. For example you and your party spend nearly 10 minutes chipping away at a Act boss. He flip over and die eventually.
Then he drops nothing.
Picture this in your head, right now.
Can you imagine the frustration any player will feel ? :p
No matter what, any RPG worth it's salt will still guarantee the boss will give a confirmed drop.A guaranteed drop is far better than no guarantees at all (aka regular mobs) !
Sure that hell level Moonlord can drop the Shako, but its chance to drop an item is not guaranteed but the super unique Shenk you just pop will be guaranteed to drop an item, which MIGHT turn into a Shako.
I think the problem was that mobs had a far lower TC than bosses. If they were closer, it might be better to farm mobs too (and not just cows for gems kinda farm :P )
Chorkstain
01-03-2009, 07:28
Maybe it wouldn't be a problem, teleporting through walls. Here are my points:
1.) None of the statistics so far increase mana. While this might change, if it were to stay as it is, your mana would not scale up quickly, meaning you wouldn't have the mana to splurge on Teleport (a normally mana-intensive spell).
2.) Amounting to the same thing as 1.), there are no mana potions (or not many). You'll only get Mana Orbs if you stop to slay some monsters.
EDIT: Just realised that Konfeta said the same thing before, but it was apparently ignored :p
So it seems to me that the teleport problem may not be as much of an issue.
korialstraz
01-03-2009, 09:14
Yes but you have to understand. For example you and your party spend nearly 10 minutes chipping away at a Act boss. He flip over and die eventually.
Then he drops nothing.
Picture this in your head, right now.
Can you imagine the frustration any player will feel ? :p
No matter what, any RPG worth it's salt will still guarantee the boss will give a confirmed drop.A guaranteed drop is far better than no guarantees at all (aka regular mobs) !
Sure that hell level Moonlord can drop the Shako, but its chance to drop an item is not guaranteed but the super unique Shenk you just pop will be guaranteed to drop an item, which MIGHT turn into a Shako.
I see where you are coming from, but you are STILL basing it on an unfinished game. Who says the boss won't drop anything when the game is done? Besides the movie wasn't about drops, but to show off characters, skills and how bosses can inflict special death moves. Yes some items was shown as well, but I think that was more to have a reason to talk about the inventory and such.
Sure that hell moonlord will drop a shako, and a boss may have guaranteed drop which makes him better to run... but in the time you can tele to him and kill the boss you could kill 20 moonlords. And according to Blizz it may be more yelding to farm areas. Now if you must hunt bosses that badly farm areas with a boss at the end ;)
Anyway no matter how much we point out eachothers flaws it won't matter, since no one knows yet how the game will be and which will be more effective, boss farming, area farming or a mix of both. :fire:
Bladewind
01-03-2009, 10:19
Which is what D2 has being doing.... For years....
Chaos Runs = Clearing everything in Chaos Sanctuary then killing Diablo.
Baal Runs = Killing things in Throne. Kill Minions. Then kill Baal.
Cow Runs = Killing as many Cows except Cow King.
Pit Runs = Killing everything.
Bloody Runs (for those who remember) = Kill shenk then everything else.
The only reason why Blizz has that concept people are only interested in bosses is because of Meph. Meph minions are easy to bypass unlike Diablo / Baal, you don't need to kill them to proceed on Meph. For Baal and Diablo requires their minions to be dead before you can proceed.
Does not help that Meph is actually the most run boss ever either. :p
NioTumsSpik
01-03-2009, 10:19
Every item that drops in the gameplay video are rigged.
They said that them self
korialstraz
01-03-2009, 17:11
Which is what D2 has being doing.... For years....
Chaos Runs = Clearing everything in Chaos Sanctuary then killing Diablo.
Baal Runs = Killing things in Throne. Kill Minions. Then kill Baal.
Cow Runs = Killing as many Cows except Cow King.
Pit Runs = Killing everything.
Bloody Runs (for those who remember) = Kill shenk then everything else.
The only reason why Blizz has that concept people are only interested in bosses is because of Meph. Meph minions are easy to bypass unlike Diablo / Baal, you don't need to kill them to proceed on Meph. For Baal and Diablo requires their minions to be dead before you can proceed.
Does not help that Meph is actually the most run boss ever either. :p
That's not the same.
Chaos runs is for lvling, and then you clear everything. Boss runs:
Andy: Kill her and loot.
Meph: Kill him and loot.
Dia: Open seals and kill what is needed for D to spawn, kill D and loot.
Baal: Kill minions, kill baal and loot.
What I'd imagine D2 to be if they had a system where area clearing would be effective:
Run area 85 places (some people do in D2, but I don't think it's many compared to bosses).
Kill everthing on your way to Andy.
Kill everything on your way to Meph.
Kill everything in chaos and dia.
Kill everything on your way to baal.
That's my view at least.
raveharu
01-03-2009, 19:17
Personally I don't like the way Bosses drop items in D2, it makes hunting for items too easy. There is always a high chance of them dropping sets/uniques, and think of this in the long run: You are not the only one killing, there are 1974537 players in 1974537 games doing similar Boss runs.
Probably the main reason are that finding Bosses in D2 is too simple, and to add to that too many weaknesses and exploits in the game. Well I don't blame Blizzard, its quite an old game anyway.
I'm pretty sure D3 will be a tough, buffed up version of D2. Like what Bashiok said, maps are like Arcane Santuary 2.0, so we can kiss good bye to easy Boss farming :whistling:
Back to topic:
If you noticed the demo video, the wizard had to destroy the door using her spell and then being able to teleport out. I guess we can no longer open doors by clicking. This could be one of the measures to prevent abusing teleport, apart from not being able to pass through walls.
I can only imagine future doors being immune to the wizard spells and requiring other classes to whack it down in D3 :girly:
Doctor Salvador
01-03-2009, 21:03
If you noticed the demo video, the wizard had to destroy the door using her spell and then being able to teleport out. I guess we can no longer open doors by clicking. This could be one of the measures to prevent abusing teleport, apart from not being able to pass through walls.
I can only imagine future doors being immune to the wizard spells and requiring other classes to whack it down in D3 :girly:
God I can't wait for that first door that Blizz accidently gave WAY too much health to, and in an effort to conserve mana a lone 'Zard beats at it for ten minutes with a little twig.
AxlStrife
01-03-2009, 21:10
God I can't wait for that first door that Blizz accidently gave WAY too much health to, and in an effort to conserve mana a lone 'Zard beats at it for ten minutes with a little twig.
QFT. A nice reminder to keep an axe on your character at all times ^_^. The first dual immune monster is gonna give people fits.
korialstraz
02-03-2009, 01:16
The first dual immune monster is gonna give people fits.
Make dual element chars then :whistling: :thumbsup:
Only some doors need smashing. Others can be clicked to be opened. Haven't you seen the Blizzcon B-roll? A wizard opens a door and there's a ton of skeletons on the other side. The doors that need to be bashed are sealed.
Bladewind
02-03-2009, 06:28
Make dual element chars then :whistling: :thumbsup:
Or use Infinity 2.0 in D3.
Just kidding. :thumbup:
http://www.diablowiki.net/Arcane_Skill_Tree#Penetrating_Spells
AxlStrife
03-03-2009, 06:00
http://www.diablowiki.net/Arcane_Skill_Tree#Penetrating_Spells
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
KillaMike
04-03-2009, 06:15
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4pXfHLUlZf4
nice music, thro how is it realted to topic? or this is music you listening to while playing?
AxlStrife
04-03-2009, 06:42
nice music, thro how is it realted to topic? or this is music you listening to while playing?
I guess I'm off of the No-Troll-Post diet for now.
It was related to the Penetrating Spells passive. If a Cold Mastery effect that applies to all spells doesn't make you happy to play a Wizard, not much will.
*goes with the music* "I cllicked on the link and I saw the skill then I JIZZ... IN MY PANTS."
As far as the song goes, it's hilarious how oblivious most people are of the satire in their music, how devolved pop/hip-hop "music" has become to where that song and "I'm On a Boat" are treated as the real thing.
KillaMike
04-03-2009, 09:14
I guess I'm off of the No-Troll-Post diet for now.
It was related to the Penetrating Spells passive. If a Cold Mastery effect that applies to all spells doesn't make you happy to play a Wizard, not much will.
*goes with the music* "I cllicked on the link and I saw the skill then I JIZZ... IN MY PANTS."
As far as the song goes, it's hilarious how oblivious most people are of the satire in their music, how devolved pop/hip-hop "music" has become to where that song and "I'm On a Boat" are treated as the real thing.
so you saying that this music must have been taking more seriouse, but what for those people that called nuddiest must be feeling? they naked after all, so they cant feel it, they have no pants on.... :whistling:
...
the title of the song, "Jizz in my pants" means... something men do when they see something they really, really like.
KillaMike
04-03-2009, 20:37
...
the title of the song, "Jizz in my pants" means... something men do when they see something they really, really like.
men... be more specific, some man find cars very much of likable.... some games.... and no, man DOES NOT LIKE WOMAN.... HE LOVES WOMAN :crazyeyes:
so like i said, be more specific :thumbup:
I'm trying to keep this explanation PG.
But yeah, the reaction to woman, except towards something else.
To solve both the teleport and the boss farming only problems, I would suggest making the drop formula be partially determined by what % of enemies in an area has been already killed.
This would promote exploration while also rewarding teams that clear most of an area. :thumbup:
Nah. It might have the opposite effect, Fox. Players would roam the whole dungeon making sure every last demon is dead before facing the boss, slowing down the pace.
Raging_Zealot
08-03-2009, 21:51
^^Isn't that what they want though? People to take the time to clear areas? I do assume that they would rather we clear areas because we want to (drops from the monsters we are killing while we clear) rather than we feel we must in order to get a decent boss drop though.
As for whether Teleport can go through walls, as others have said, what we've seen of gameplay videos implies it cannot. I also agree it probably should not, it still gives you a tactical advantage (for offense or defense), while helping to prevent skipping most of the level. IMO this is a better solution than a timer, since a timer would limit its use as a tactical skill. This way you can still spam it around the screen (as mana allows) to reposition for better attacks or to get out of danger, but can't skip to the boss. If you really must bypass enemies, it seems like it will allow you to do that as well, you just have to follow the same walking paths, but at much greater speed and won't get stuck at choke points like another class might.
Yes, going through the whole level is important, but the team shouldn't feel obligated to hunt down one or two that escaped from a crowd if it will slow things down.
Look at the gameplay video. The Witchdoctor fails to kill one of the scavengers. If he had gone after it the flow of the game would have suffered.
SlechtWeerBeer
16-03-2009, 18:58
Nah. It might have the opposite effect, Fox. Players would roam the whole dungeon making sure every last demon is dead before facing the boss, slowing down the pace.
Or they could end the increased droprate at ~80% slaughter-rate (?), and make it luck of the draw from there on :)
Don't get me wrong, I'm all for a system that encourages cleaning. But it needs to be subtle so players can't predict exactly how many enemies to kill.
I dunno if i think this makes the game more boring or more fun. It would be quite annoying if you have to do runs again without teleport. Else great!
AnimeCraze
29-04-2009, 21:22
To solve both the teleport and the boss farming only problems, I would suggest making the drop formula be partially determined by what % of enemies in an area has been already killed.
This would promote exploration while also rewarding teams that clear most of an area. :thumbup:I agree a lot with this one. To make sure people don't chase down the last 2 monsters and wasting a lot of time, do this in a probabilistic way. ie. If you kill x% of the monsters, you get something like x*base rate drop. Wasting time chasing the last few monsters will be counter productive.
Light Champion
04-06-2009, 10:21
Where's the fun if you skip through the level? Monsters and enemies should be killed;teleport away if you are surrounded is a smart use of the teleport,like exploring places already empty faster;in D2 the dungeons were simply huge!It tooked ages to move through them after you cleared them of monsters!That's a smart use of teleport
to me this is just a fancier version of jump, this is no longer teleporting. i wish they would give it a knew names because it is not hte same ability.
raveharu
04-06-2009, 20:03
to me this is just a fancier version of jump, this is no longer teleporting. i wish they would give it a knew names because it is not hte same ability.
In the first place teleport should be working like this, so I'll rather say it's a new and IMPROVED version of the old teleport :smug:
In the first place teleport should be working like this, so I'll rather say it's a new and IMPROVED version of the old teleport :smug:
how is this improved, this is nerfed.
Teleportation - the idea of this is you make yourself vanish and re-appear another area, no matter of wall or door in the way. D2 teleport may be unfair, instead of make the move suck, remove it or rename it.
you send yourself up in the air to land on the ground, this is much slower and not as useful. A charecter with a fast run/walk should be able to keep up easily which defeat the purpose of this move. the whole animation of the muve is horrible (not vissually, but the act in which it is preformed.) Like i said before this is just a fancier version of jump, Maybe they should call it "Style-ish Jump" because that it what it is.
Yes, going through the whole level is important, but the team shouldn't feel obligated to hunt down one or two that escaped from a crowd if it will slow things down.
Look at the gameplay video. The Witchdoctor fails to kill one of the scavengers. If he had gone after it the flow of the game would have suffered.
I don't think it was implied that it would be an all or nothing thing.
For example, if there are 300 enemies in a zone before a boss, each one would increase the drop chance of the boss by .33% so a full clear would get a full drop, but if you miss 10 enemies or something you're still getting 97% of a full drop, which is good enough for most people.
Aside from that, this is a change that teleport needs. It is a "BALANCED" version of teleport.
Being able to skip entire levels is such a huge advantage even when not talking about simply boss running. Teleport was also the primary skill that enabled rushing, or at least made it so quick.
Teleport needs this change to be balanced. Without this change, everyone in the know would roll their first character as a sorceress, which is something blizz should strive to avoid.
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