Valor vs Honor

[sweetalmonds]

Arkaine's Valor
Balrog Skin
Defense: 1295-1450 (varies)(Base Defense: 410-517)
Required Level: 85
Required Strength: 165
Durability: 30
+150-180% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+1-2 To All Skills* (varies)
+ (0.5 Per Character Level) 0-49 To Vitality (Based On Character Level)
30% Faster Hit Recovery
Damage Reduced By 10-15 (varies)
(Only Spawns In Patch 1.10 or later)


To a 105fcr es sorc, wouldn't that be better than CoH?

20str on CoH vs (lvl90)+45vita, and the socketing just for example its +9str/-15req jewel works out in valor's favor. 20str->40life->bo'd to ~75life. 45vita=90life, 9str->18life->bo'd to ~35 so 125life total just rough guessing.

65resist vs 15 dr, resist would not play a big factor on es sorc but integer dr does.

Runes(dol 7repl, ber 8%dr) vs 30fhr, again %dr is not very useful like resist. Although replenish is nice there's already plenty on hoto.

So to all the guides written, how come little mention is given to akaine's valor but CoH comes up all the time? Or is there some flaw in this armor I'm missing. For the peeps that would like to have pure legit items, this would also definatly be easier to get legit than Coh :nod:

e\ yeah i meant rare jewel. -15%req that brings it down to 141? str req and if it did have +9str too then that would be helping equip mon as well. maybe look at things more from a pvp perspective but I would imagine any dueler to have ut leveled to lvl92 before placing stats :P

[sirpoopsalot]

... +9str/-15req jewel ...

Nitpick: Unless the jewel is rare, these won't spawn together (they're both suffixes) - and I'm not certain that you can get +9 on a rare jewel too (the cap might be lower for rare jewels). <--- Edit: according to AS, there's no cap for +str on rare jewels, so it looks like I'm wrong there.


I think the biggest factor is the level requirement - that's what scares me off of Arkaine's. By the time I reach level85, I'm usually done, unless I'm building an MFer (and I don't use ES sorcs for MF). So it just doesn't fit for what I need. Also - if you weren't using Spirit - the strength requirement is a little high too (if you're using Spirit though, it's about par for the course).

Otherwise, I think Arkaine's is a very solid choice for an ES sorc; just as good as CoH.


But I still like Fortitude best in this case (25 FCR, +~100 life, integer PDR, resists, DTM, free Chilling Armor, & Replenish Life). The extra FCR may enable you to choose extra non-FCR items in other places (+3 amulet, Frostburns, Shako, etc.) to boost your skills, mana, life, whatever. Fort's not exactly one you see pimped in many guides either. :wink:

Of course, sticking to legit play, Lo runes aren't exactly common either, and Arkaine's is a clear winner. :p

[renegademaster]

Gladiators Bane is the other ES armour. No plus skills, but Cannot be Frozen and both Magic and Physical damage reduced. Plus lower Str required although the Akraines bonus to Vitality would almost balances that out except if you are pure ES you dont need much Vitality.

You can use a Mal rune to give Magic Damage Reduced by 7. So maybe you can make Akraines work with that!

Defense: 1255-1496 (varies)(Base Defense: 375-481)
Required Level: 85
Required Strength: 111
Durability: 135
+150-200% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+50 Defense
Cannot Be Frozen
30% Faster Hit Recovery
Poison Length Reduced By 50%
Attacker Takes Damage Of 20
Damage Reduced By 15-20 (varies)
Magic Damage Reduced By 15-20 (varies)

Gerkes Sanctuary Shield is the alternative, but again no +skills or fast cast.

Defense: 221-268 (varies)(Base Defense: 68-78)
Required Level: 44
Required Strength: 133
Chance to Block: Pal: 84%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 79%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 74%
Durability: 172
Paladin Smite Damage: 10 To 17
+180-240% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+30% Increased Chance of Blocking
All Resistances +20-30 (varies)
Replenish Life +15
Damage Reduced By 11-16 (varies)
Magic Damage Reduced By 14-18 (varies)
(Only Spawns In Patch 1.09 or later)

[sangfagel]

- HotO can be made in a base with very low str req. Only this can easy give You 250% of this vita that Valor grants on clvl 99.

- afaik "Virility" suffix can apply on rare jewels aside with "Freedom" sufix but this combunation is so rare that it can be compaired to HR.

- For most of sorc builds (all but melee) resists > pdr. CoH has incredible resists. Valor has none. As for ES builds - if a sorc don´t need elemental resists she neither need phisical one. :crazyeyes: ... or Valor´s massive def...

Only for these two reasons I would prefere rather Viper than Valor...

- As said before lvl requirements for Valor are just ridiculous.

These *possibly* +2 all skills which makes Valor so special between not-runewords can still be countered by very legit *Pul + Ral + Sol* with less pdr but 30%fr.

[SeCKSEgai]

Honestly I'd have to say the best attribute in valor is the fhr, but aside from keeping it for collection, I'd never actually use it.

As far as resists are concerned, if I remember correctly your resists would reduce the damage taken thus reduce the mana used by ES.

On any sorc, I would either use a tal set or focus on plus gear. Since we're primarily looking for a reason why COH is so highly recommended, let's analyze why.

Resists in Hell are important for any character, even ranged (or ES Ranged). -100 to resists is hard to make up, and CoH covers 65

+2 skills! (although a +2 valor can match)

8% physical damage reduction

20 to strength - allowing stat points to be allocated to.... say vit

Really, CoH is more focused towards melee, but no other armor can match those resists.

And now for what Valor offers

+1-2 skills ---covered by COH
+1-50 life --- 50 life at 99 - 40 life at lvl 80 = 20vit = 20str on CoH
30% fhr ---very useful, but can be gained elsewhere
10-15 dr --- only physical, and shouldn't be taking too many hits to begin with

Heavy str req (needing -req and wasting socket)

But really what it comes down to is the resists. CoH has the best, and a sorc doesn't need Enigma to teleport. Also keep in mind, when that blue bubble is gone (ie mana burn), having low life and negative resists equal a quick death.

[sirpoopsalot]

@SeCKSEgai, damage absorbed by Energy Shield comes before resists are factored. So if you have 95% absorb on ES, that means only the unabsorbed 5% of damage is eligible to be resisted.

So, at that point, if you have 80% lightning resistance or -80%, the difference in actual damage you receive is pretty insignficant (for every 100 that a monster does, it results in 8 points difference in this case). Likewise, the 8% damage reduction is also applied after ES, so only a miniscule portion of the damage gets the 8% applied to it.

I agree resists shouldn't be neglected too badly, but for a heavily invested ES sorc, resists are less important than other things. I would definitely put PDR higher than resists for many ES sorcs. And therefore, I'd still pick something other than the CoH on most ES sorcs - your armor slot is one of the best ways to get PDR, but resists can be made up more easily in other slots.


Edit: I believe there's also a weird bug where if you have both PDR and MDR, they get added together and applied to both magic and physical damage that you receive (as long as your receive physical and elemental damage at the same time). So if you have 5 PDR and 5 MDR, and an archer shoots you and 8 points of fire & 1 point of physical damage gets past your ES, you don't receive any damage.

So PDR doesn't apply to just physical damage - a lot of monsters cause more than one type of damage in one attack, so you can use PDR to help on other types of damage you receive.

I haven't tested this to confirm it, but I trust the sources I've heard it from.

[SeCKSEgai]

@SeCKSEgai, damage absorbed by Energy Shield comes before resists are factored. So if you have 95% absorb on ES, that means only the unabsorbed 5% of damage is eligible to be resisted.

So, at that point, if you have 80% lightning resistance or -80%, the difference in actual damage you receive is pretty insignficant (for every 100 that a monster does, it results in 8 points difference in this case). Likewise, the 8% damage reduction is also applied after ES, so only a miniscule portion of the damage gets the 8% applied to it.

I agree resists shouldn't be neglected too badly, but for a heavily invested ES sorc, resists are less important than other things. I would definitely put PDR higher than resists for many ES sorcs. And therefore, I'd still pick something other than the CoH on most ES sorcs - your armor slot is one of the best ways to get PDR, but resists can be made up more easily in other slots.


Edit: I believe there's also a weird bug where if you have both PDR and MDR, they get added together and applied to both magic and physical damage that you receive (as long as your receive physical and elemental damage at the same time). So if you have 5 PDR and 5 MDR, and an archer shoots you and 8 points of fire & 1 point of physical damage gets past your ES, you don't receive any damage.

So PDR doesn't apply to just physical damage - a lot of monsters cause more than one type of damage in one attack, so you can use PDR to help on other types of damage you receive.

I haven't tested this to confirm it, but I trust the sources I've heard it from.

Ah that's good to know, was never fond of relying on the blue orb, I hate dealing with blood mana and mana burn.

With that said, valor does appear viable, but I'd still look elsewhere before using it, unless you had a plus 2 or it was dirt cheap. Like previously mentioned, even the sorc runeword is viable, and can be made in something with much lower str req.