Truth About Battle.net Bans [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

KoProvoke

22-02-2009, 19:59

Blizzard sales went through the roof with WoW as you know nearly 3 milion copies sold in the first 24 hours after release. It brings the company great money and everyone is happy. There is however a problem with this type of success, like most good things, it don't last long.
As more copies are sold, the sales decrease exponentially and I'll give you an example to picture it:

Sales after 24 hours: 2.4 million
Sales after 1 week: 4 million
Sales after 1 month: 6million
Sales after 1 year: 10million

The sales are literally crashing but this is not a problem because 10 million copies sold in a year is extremely good, its record breaking but this is when greediness comes into play, and the Blizzard's experts started to analyse the ''WHY'' Why are sales dropping so much, and I mean, from 2.4M a day, after a year they drop to 1000 per day and they want to know why.

The answer they found is that putting 10 million copies out there is great but what are they going to do with them? People play and pass the game from one another and the market goes from a ''company to user'' market, to a ''user to user'' market which creates an inner circle that excludes Blizzard and therefore causes the tremendous crash in company profits, even if those profits scored much higher then any other video game could ever score.

solution? There are 10 milion cd-keys out there, would be nice if there would only be 2 milion! People would buy more copies to play. Now how would they do that? Thats when the evil side of the company starts to show. MAPHACK!
Created by the hacker under the name Mousepad, we don't even know if that hacker isn't a blizzards programmer paid to do a job. Such programs are easely blockable by a simple coding that disconnects you from battle.net each time you activate the program.
The blizzards programmers were precisely instructed not to take any action to prevent users from using hacks, but instead, it installed a ban policy:
If a user is caught using maphack, he will be banned. Ok.
Its a bit like leaving a door open and saying ''if you walk in that door, you'll be banned'' when they can clearly put a dam lock on the door and make sure no one can get in.

The ban policy is very useful because it allows to remove legitimately obtained cd-keys off the market and make you buy a second copy. Banning when you don't need to ban is not honest.

There's also a nice little trick. The 3 month cd-key ban. You have to listen to those blizzard fags because they're really witty ones! I get cd-key banned for 3 months, I can wait 3 months or I can buy a new copy and play today. Guess what most people do, they buy a second copy. I proved my point I guess. There's fags every were trying to rip you off.

Blizzard permanently banned more then 300 000 cd-keys. Why is that important? Its a 15 000 000$ scam towards us, the gamers.

stillman

22-02-2009, 20:10

Sounds all good to me!

Seriously though, I disagree a bit about the 'open door' scenario you mentioned. You insinuate that it's not really necessary to ban the cheaters (i.e. Blizzard should make it impossible to cheat in the first place). Well though that seems like a sound strategy, maybe it would cost Blizzard significantly to make their system that bulletproof. With sooooo many people who desire to cheat, Blizzard has got to do whatever it takes. They also have to do it in a cost effective manner. Why not just boot out the cheaters because if they don't, those cheaters will still be there in the game working hard on figguring out other ways to cheat.

Note: You sound like the wolf who ate ten chickens and you're mad at the farmer for firing his shotgun at you. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

zarfen

22-02-2009, 20:13

I'll be the first one to say this, maphack is a cheat, it does affect other people, not just yourself. Maphacking is like entering an orienteering contest with an gps, sure I haven't directly messed something up for someone else, I'm just making sure I'll have superior odds and that I'll win.

Using your "Maphack does not bother anyone and you shouldn't be banned for using it." philosophy could easily be used to justify duping etc.

I see no wrong in banning people who are cheating and violating the "rules" of the game. By preventing people from logging in while using hacks, you are telling them that they can't play that way, but they will keep on trying to find other ways around. By banning people for playing with hacks, you are stopping them from playing that way.
Sure, a d2 copy is dirt cheap these days and you could always buy a new one and continue, but rest assured you will be banned again if you're caught. Once again, it's my opinion that hackers and cheaters should not be on our servers, no mather the method of preventing them.

/zarf

visom

22-02-2009, 20:50

Why are sales dropping so much after each year? I got a bit confused on your reason so forgive my misinterpretation, but I think it's because more people have the game so why would they buy it again?

For example, say there is 1000 people waiting to buy WoW. During the first month, 700 bought it, so why didn't the other 300 buy it? It could be because the other 300 either didn't have enough money, wanted to hear reviews about it first, or just waiting for enough of their friends to play it (there are other reasons too). Then the next month, another 200 bought it because they decided that it's worth a try, month after that another 50 buy because they were recommended it and so on.

Same thing for D2, it made its peak number of sales on the first day because no one has D2 that time. Its not like the number of box sales should remain constant because I doubt D2 would "disappear" from your computer's memory so you have to buy a new box after a month.

Also, if you got banned from WoW then it must be from violating their rule so I feel no pity for you. Even though I've never played WoW I do know that it's company policy to not tolerate hacking. You can bash on them for being greedy all you want, and I agree, but I don't resent Blizzard for wanting to make money. Besides you don't actually have to buy a new copy and three months of taking a break from a particular game is not long, in fact I took a break from D2 for 6 months then came back again. It's common for companies to turn your needs into their profits, such as putting up food stands in isolated areas and charging you 3 times its normal price there.

Echod16

22-02-2009, 22:42

I take more stock in a Zeitgeist than this

Es Mors

22-02-2009, 23:50

So Blizzard are evil bastards out to take all the money from their customers, but only from the ones that are cheating? Fine by me! Actualy, keep it up, Blizzard! :thumbup:

Grug

23-02-2009, 00:09

I'm selling some fine Tinfoil Hats. Would you like some?

Rancors

23-02-2009, 00:18

lol i can guess the op thinks pretty much everything in life is a conspiracy.

and he must be one of those "cheaters" who got banned from bnet to come up with such conclusion.

HegemonKhan

23-02-2009, 00:31

cheating is cheating and only the cheaters are responsible/suffer the consequences, but that does NOT mean that blizzard isn't out to drain the world's pockets and fill their own.

blizzard is able to do BOTH at the same time as the orginal poster, posted.

i'm all for the crack down on cheaters.

i'm NOT for blizzard making people give more money to them because they have to or need to buy new cd's of the same game that they already bought and have.

i'm for cheaters getting punished...but i'm not for blizzard being/getting rewarded in the process. if u wanna talk about fairness...WE (the legit players) are the victims of those who cheat...the money should go to us legit players *grins* (not blizzard).

the money from every additional diablo 2 or LOD cd/key, should be distributed to all the legitimate players for the damage/victimization/harm done to us in our attempt to progress and succeed in the game as we "play by the rules".

Scudstorm

23-02-2009, 00:32

Oh my god.

Blizzard made a game and expect profits?

Shame on you, Blizzard!

The ban policy is very useful because it allows to remove legitimately obtained cd-keys off the market and make you buy a second copy.

Now tell me, why would it be bad to make cheaters pay more? If it's fairness you want, don't cheat.

Double-standard makes you ugly.

satheron

23-02-2009, 00:40

so its blizzard's fault your cheating?

HegemonKhan

23-02-2009, 00:41

making profit in honest way is fine and applauded.

making profit in a deceitful and unfair way is criminal to me.

i am NOT saying that the cheaters shouldn't be punished, i'm saying blizzard shouldn't get additional money from it.'

there's two things happening at once:

1. cheaters being punished

and

2. greedy blizzard getting richer by dishonest means.

I'm 100% for #1. cheaters can easily be punished with*OUT* blizzard getting more money for the hell of it.

i'm 0% for #2. personally, it's criminal to me. but meh, i'm not even a lawyer, let alone a good one, who can coercise the justice system to think it's not criminal.

nicro tower

23-02-2009, 01:03

Huh? What game doesn't have a ban policy. And how is that dishonest? You were warned not to cheat in the EULA/TOS/whatever agreement. Even if a Blizzard employee made a hack, it's your fault for violating the agreement. Therefore, what they do is perfectly sound. And I highly doubt Blizzard is stupid enough to risk getting caught in the act to get one of their own employees to make a hack like that.

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 01:14

GoldenBird

23-02-2009, 01:15

I don't get the point of this. The cheaters get punished. That's what we want. If I made something for a world of people, I would want something in return too. It's not like the fact that they ban cheaters and the cheaters buy another copy affect the legitimate players negatively because if they cheat again, they get banned again.

Seriously, what's the point of this post? The cheaters get punished, the ones doing the work get rewarded, and we get more legitimate gameplay.

2. greedy blizzard getting richer by dishonest means.

I don't get the point of these arguments. They work for us to provide us with a better gameplay experience, so why shouldn't they be rewarded? They could have just left us dangling there in the midst of the hacks and dupes and bots, but they didn't so stop complaining.

Bottom line: it's our advantage and all we have to do is sit on our lazy ***es so stop freakin complaining.

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 01:19

I don't get the point of this. The cheaters get punished. That's what we want. If I made something for a world of people, I would want something in return too. It's not like the fact that they ban cheaters and the cheaters buy another copy affect the legitimate players negatively because if they cheat again, they get banned again.

Seriously, what's the point of this post? The cheaters get punished, the ones doing the work get rewarded, and we get more legitimate gameplay.

I don't get the point of these arguments. They work for us to provide us with a better gameplay experience, so why shouldn't they be rewarded? They could have just left us dangling there in the midst of the hacks and dupes and bots, but they didn't so stop complaining.

Bottom line: it's our advantage and all we have to do is sit on our lazy ***es so stop freakin complaining.

Read my last post

Scudstorm

23-02-2009, 01:36

visom

23-02-2009, 01:46

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 01:55

KoProvoke, we address your thread and you call us "mental retards"?

You sir, obviously forum like a 12 year old, saying rude words to people who don't agree with you.

Just because we may not agree with you, does that mean you should hate us and call us names?

Read mine too and address it as well.

I read your post and you basically paraphrase what I already said in my post.
If I use maphack how does it make me a cheater? All I do is browse my way in so I don't wander like a blind fly across the map for nothing, how is that cheating or hacking?
Hacking is when you go in town I cast a firewall on you and you keep dying, thats hacking, or using autoaim, or gmod, or whatever feature that replaces the player skill. What skill does maphack replace? The skill of blindly finding your way through a level? How is that even a skill or something to be proud of? Like YO! Guys I can make it to mephisto in less then 30 seconds, im pro at finding the lvl 3 entrance. What's the big deal about that? Its retarded that's what it is, retarded.

I didn't say you are retarded, I said it's retarded.

If you think we are mental retards, KoProvoke, then maybe you don't belong here.

We do not support cheaters, and we do not like them. It's their problem, not ours.

If you like analogies, here's one right for you:

The law forbids killing. And yet they are, plenty of people in the city and a gunshop down the street.

Now, is the law compelling you to kill people? I don't think so. If you go buy a gun and shoot someone, knowing very well what would be the consequences, you are the mental retard.

Ok and if I use maphack so I don't have to try all 4 ways in arcane sanctuary = killing somebody, good analogy, I'm a mental retard thx for letting me know.

Ok there seems to be a big confusion around here, lets define what is a hack and what`s not a hack:

Hacks:
- Autoaim
- Badkidpk
- TmcPk
- Redvex plugins
- Bots
- Gmod
- Farcast
- TMC
- Nightlite

NOT hacks:

- Maphack
- Score counting bot in duel games or victory message spam

Now stop being immature over it wtf

visom

23-02-2009, 02:28

Maphack is not a hack?

But it's in the name :O

So what next, a spambot is not a bot?

Go to a huge gaming website like gamefaqs and put up a poll asking if maphack is a hack or not, I'd love to see the result.

EDIT:Honestly you need a definition of hacks. Hacks are 3rd party software use in games. It doesn't matter what it does, a 3rd party software is basically a program that doesn't come with the game (independent from it) but is use to work in conjunction with the game, providing additional features that is foreign to the game.

I know what you're going to say "you're so wrong visom cuz a hack is supposed to give unfair advantages to the ppl using it". Guess what? IT DOESN'T MATTER! A hack is clearly what I described above.

starmelt

23-02-2009, 02:33

The sales are literally crashing but this is not a problem because 10 million copies sold in a year is extremely good, its record breaking but this is when greediness comes into play, and the Blizzard's experts started to analyse the ''WHY'' Why are sales dropping so much, and I mean, from 2.4M a day, after a year they drop to 1000 per day and they want to know why.

You dont have to be a Blizzard "expert" to understand "WHY".
Theres 6 billion people in the world. 10 million subscribe to WoW.
Now that leaves a whole bunch of people not playing WoW.
How come they dont play? Because theyre simply not interested in playing WoW at all. Hence the sales are dropping, since every potential costumer has allready bought the game. How do they keep profiting? Through pay-for-play, expansions, merchandise and ads. NOT by forcing players to buy another copy.

solution? There are 10 milion cd-keys out there, would be nice if there would only be 2 milion! People would buy more copies to play. Now how would they do that? Thats when the evil side of the company starts to show. MAPHACK!
Created by the hacker under the name Mousepad, we don't even know if that hacker isn't a blizzards programmer paid to do a job.

Youre claiming that in order to sell more games (or cd-keys), Blizzard ban players for using a program they invented themselves. Highly doubtfull. Why? Because Blizzard is a company that relies on satisfied costumers. And since the majority of players are playing legit, they are forced to side with them, essencially meaning that they remove the bad apples which causes the dissatisfaction. You, as a player, have the choice to follow the rules or not. And you will have to take the consequences of you actions. Its pathetic that you blame Blizzard for tempting players to cheat, and you should be ashamed of yourself, for comparing Blizzard to a anti-virus company.

nicro tower

23-02-2009, 02:35

Ok there seems to be a big confusion around here, lets define what is a hack and what`s not a hack:

Hacks:
- Autoaim
- Badkidpk
- TmcPk
- Redvex plugins
- Bots
- Gmod
- Farcast
- TMC
- Nightlite

NOT hacks:

- Maphack
- Score counting bot in duel games or victory message spam

Now stop being immature over it wtf

You know, reading skills will take you a long way. Fine, maphack isn't a hack, but it's still a 3rd party program. And that agreement you should of read basically says that any 3rd party program is bannable at Blizzard's discretion.

Huh, bannable isn't a word...

starmelt

23-02-2009, 02:37

I read your post and you basically paraphrase what I already said in my post.
If I use maphack how does it make me a cheater? All I do is browse my way in so I don't wander like a blind fly across the map for nothing, how is that cheating or hacking?

Its cheating because it floods the economy (through fast mf-rushes), and hence ruins the game for everyone else.

nicro tower

23-02-2009, 02:39

Its cheating because it floods the economy (through fast mf-rushes), and hence ruins the game for everyone else.

Meh, bots and duping are actually a lot worse. While I do agree that maphack is still a 3pp, I'd say it's the least harmful, at least compared to the others.

And please do not take this post as an endorsement for maphack, its still illegal. Don't get it. It takes like 5 minutes of effort to memorize the maps.

Rancors

23-02-2009, 02:47

obviously a victim who got banned in the last mass banning in d2, for using maphack and d2loader which people dont consider "hacks."

now he becomes an angry mob cuz he has to buy another copy.

starmelt

23-02-2009, 03:02

Meh, bots and duping are actually a lot worse. While I do agree that maphack is still a 3pp, I'd say it's the least harmful, at least compared to the others.

And please do not take this post as an endorsement for maphack, its still illegal. Don't get it. It takes like 5 minutes of effort to memorize the maps.

I agree. Bots and duping are worse. But, as you say, still.

Heres a maphack for you KoProvoke; When waypoiting to Durance of Hate Level 2, always go left.

HegemonKhan

23-02-2009, 03:34

the thing that makes maphack so good/unfair (other hacks are jsut as bad!, not saying they aren't) is that the real secret to lvling and find items is special monsters. if maphack tells where such monsters are (who cares about a map layout), that's a huge advantage for them over us who play legitly.

HegemonKhan

23-02-2009, 03:36

HegemonKhan

23-02-2009, 03:40

I don't get the point of this. The cheaters get punished. That's what we want. If I made something for a world of people, I would want something in return too. It's not like the fact that they ban cheaters and the cheaters buy another copy affect the legitimate players negatively because if they cheat again, they get banned again.

Seriously, what's the point of this post? The cheaters get punished, the ones doing the work get rewarded, and we get more legitimate gameplay.

I don't get the point of these arguments. They work for us to provide us with a better gameplay experience, so why shouldn't they be rewarded? They could have just left us dangling there in the midst of the hacks and dupes and bots, but they didn't so stop complaining.

Bottom line: it's our advantage and all we have to do is sit on our lazy ***es so stop freakin complaining.

i completely agree, except for that:

blizard IS making its profit from people buying the game (that blizard did work hard to make) the first and only time, they don't need money from banning and people buying another cd-key.

visom

23-02-2009, 03:40

How that's a problem?

Blizzard isn't getting more money from getting banned, the people who got banned are giving them the money. If they didn't hack in the first place it wouldn't happen, and besides it's more like Blizzard is offering them a choice of either waiting 3 months or buying a new CD, it's not like you're forced into it.

Echod16

23-02-2009, 03:44

the ban is fine...just have a problem with blizzzard getting more money off from it...

I'm under the impression that Blizzard bans cheaters HOPING they won't come back, as they're liable to cheat again. It's at the cheater's discretion whether he wants to fork over MORE money to blizzard to again play their game, not Blizzard's vicious greed that forces the poor old cheater into buying another copy of the game.

Just change games, that's why there's multiple gaming company making games in the same genre.

nicro tower

23-02-2009, 03:50

the ban is fine...just have a problem with blizzzard getting more money off from it...
Erm... that happens with every game. Some one gets banned. They buy the game again because they want to play, and hopefully learn from their mistakes.

the thing that makes maphack so good/unfair (other hacks are jsut as bad!, not saying they aren't) is that the real secret to lvling and find items is special monsters. if maphack tells where such monsters are (who cares about a map layout), that's a huge advantage for them over us who play legitly.

Err, there already is a list of super-uniques... and ATMA already gives the drop-chance of every item and such. No need for maphack.

Bladewind

23-02-2009, 04:08

What maphack does that it makes rushes fast and quick. Superuniques are just extras. Most rush bots or rushers just avoid them anyway unless needed (Trav for example).

But yes it does give a huge advantage to certain players. For example certain players are able to exploit MH with Guided Arrow to namelock and hit bosses especially Meph at impossibly long ranges. I know because, I have tried that way back in 1.09.

I guess partly due to this exploit, Blizz gave GA an incredibly hard nerfing (yes it was overpowered but it probably did not deserve such a serious nerfing), so that it no longer pierces and is of no use for killing bosses now.

But now I am 100% thoroughly MH free player.

If you got banned from using MH, you probably need to learn your lesson. D2 games are now ridiculously fast paced, thanks to the thousands of Enigmas in bnet now, why you still need MH is beyond me....

Doctor Salvador

23-02-2009, 04:14

the ban is fine...just have a problem with blizzzard getting more money off from it...

I disagree with you, but I can see why you dislike it. Most people (Especially with the current economy) really dislike any type of corporation or big business. But I'm not a cheater, so they're not getting any of my (or your, I assume) money, so I really have no problem with Blizzard. Other than that, is there any other reason you dislike Blizzard getting money off of this?

There's no way to really prove this rather goofy conspiracy, so how do we know any of this was a master plan to get a few extra bucks from cheaters anyway? And on another note, I really enjoy the idea of Blizzard getting money off of impatient cheaters buying more game copies, because this is just another way of keeping their business healthy, which ensures future versions of the games we love to play (D3!) will be well funded.

I did get a huge Lolz out of the opening post, by the way. :rolf:

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 04:48

well if blizzard wants to keep cheaters away from bnet and not make any money off it then y not ban the ip? Why ban the cd-key I mean the kid spent 49.99$ on the battle chest, now if he wants to sell it, his cd-key is banned, it won't be worth much so it's a scam. If you wana ban the hacker ban the ip, the service provider etc. but you see y that doesn't happen because blizzard wants the cheaters to buy the game again and cheat again etc, blizzard doesn't want to ban anyone you people are naive.

I bought a cd-key from someone, used it for 1 month then I got banned because the cd-key owner probably hacked and got tagged by the warden etc. this is a fkn SCAM.

visom

23-02-2009, 04:55

It's your fault for buying the game from another person then so why pin it on Blizzard?
People can easily sell their CD keys to 20 other people and claim you're the only one that got it.

Echod16

23-02-2009, 05:04

it's your fault for buying the game from another person then so why pin it on blizzard?
People can easily sell their cd keys to 20 other people and claim you're the only one that got it.

getting lost in a sea of scam...

chenghao

23-02-2009, 05:13

Bladewind

23-02-2009, 05:18

Yep, the only way to IP ban someone is to block an ENTIRE range of IP. Something like 202.168.x.x, in hope that when the guy's ISP assign another IP, it will be in the similar range.

Of course that is really killing your own gamer market.
Just banning the CD keys would be far easier.

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 05:19

Cos not everyone is assigned a static ip , some have dynamic ip addresses that changes everytime they log onto the internet.

ya but the town is the same, the isp is the same the pc info is the same like if the ip changes ok like saying you know a person when she/he was waring a pijama but if she/he wares a t-shirt you don't know the person anymore lol.
Trust me even with a dynamic ip adress they can ban the **** out of you

Kaysaar

23-02-2009, 05:23

There's absolutely nothing wrong, illegal or shady about Blizzard banning people's CD Keys for cheating in their game. If you cheat in their universe, then you face their consequences. It really is that simple.

Here's another analogy:

You go to the amusement park Six Flags, and security catches you jumping in a line ahead of other people. They throw you out of the park, your admissions fee wasted. You've broken the rules of the park, and as such, they are justified in removing you from the park. If you want to enter the park later in the day, you have to pay again, if they let you in that day. Does the park owe you a free ticket because you broke the rules? Absolutely not, and I'm sure that you can at least agree there.

Blizzard banning a person for cheating is the exact same. Blizzard designed the game for you to have to explore your surroundings, and introducing a program that removes that aspect of the game is cheating. Violate the rules and they can throw you out of their park. If you want to get back in you have to pay for another ticket, or CD-key in this case. Nothing sketchy, illegal, or underhanded about that.

Bladewind

23-02-2009, 05:37

ya but the town is the same, the isp is the same the pc info is the same like if the ip changes ok like saying you know a person when she/he was waring a pijama but if she/he wares a t-shirt you don't know the person anymore lol.
Trust me even with a dynamic ip adress they can ban the **** out of you

No they still won't do. And trust me on this one. I WORK for an ISP.

Nobody is going to retrieve logs on IPs changes and verify who the hell is that person unless you have a really valid reason and strong supporting evidence. And ISPs are honour bound to protect their customers unless there are serious legal issues regarding this customer.

Blizzard is not going to waste time on these. They have better things to do, like making better games or patches. Just ban the CD key.

And rule of the thumb, don't buy D2 cd keys from strangers.

ulrira

23-02-2009, 05:51

Such programs are easely blockable by a simple coding that disconnects you from battle.net each time you activate the program.
The blizzards programmers were precisely instructed not to take any action to prevent users from using hacks, but instead, it installed a ban policy:
If a user is caught using maphack, he will be banned. Ok.
Its a bit like leaving a door open and saying ''if you walk in that door, you'll be banned'' when they can clearly put a dam lock on the door and make sure no one can get in.

I'm not saying I necessarily believe KoProvoke's theory, but I think everyone's missing this point. KoProvoke's absolutely right: if Blizzard could prevent users from even using a maphack in the first place, then they wouldn't be preventing cheating at all by banning cheaters—they'd be letting them cheat for a little while instead of not at all. If cheating just pisses off legitimate players, if cheating's just a bad thing, why allow some of it when they could totally eliminate it?

I could understand if you guys were saying that there's no way to prevent players from using maphack, but that doesn't seem to be what you're all saying. You seem to be saying that cheating's bad and only pisses off legitimate players, so Blizzard should let people cheat for a while and then stop them from cheating later instead of preventing the cheating entirely in the first place. That doesn't make any sense.

It all depends on whether Blizzard could reasonably easily prevent people from using maphack in the first place. Anyone know anything one way or the other about that? I sure as hell don't.

There's absolutely nothing wrong, illegal or shady about Blizzard banning people's CD Keys for cheating in their game. If you cheat in their universe, then you face their consequences. It really is that simple.

Here's another analogy:

You go to the amusement park Six Flags, and security catches you jumping in a line ahead of other people. They throw you out of the park, your admissions fee wasted. You've broken the rules of the park, and as such, they are justified in removing you from the park.

I don't mean to pick on Kaysaar, but this is a pretty good example of most people's response here. KoProvoke seems to be saying that it would be like if there were a way to totally prevent anyone from even trying to skip the line in the first place, but, instead, they just let people skip the line for like an hour or two before they throw them out. That's an extra hour or two of pissing off people that don't skip the line.

Of course, there's no way to prevent people from skipping lines without there being, like, a team of security guards looking over every line, which would cost a lot, so they don't do it. Maybe something like that's happening with Blizzard, but I think that's what we should focus on—not on whether cheating bothers people. We all know that it does.

HegemonKhan

23-02-2009, 06:38

i give up, a lot of your posts make really good arguements that i agree with against my own posts/opinion, lol.

i still feel that the ban itself (temporary, aka long enough they lose all their accounts, ~90 days or 3 months) is punishment enough for cheaters. but a permament ban or "forcing" a person to buy a new cd-key, seems to go beyond the already equal punishment (losing his accounts, characters, gear), into dishonest profiteering...theft...crime (to me anyways).

if there was a way to completely bar/block a person who keeps on cheating and not learning his lesson or correcting his cheatful bad behavior from ever playing again, i'm all for that. i just don't like blizzard getting more and more money from people buying additional cd-keys of games they already have.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
to me it reeks of corruption/crime and my country might be destroyed by a culture of corruption and cheating by corporations-businesses, government, and irresponsible people. my country is the U.S. and our economic problems effect the rest of the world too. yes, i'm not too happy with profit seekers, as tehy lost their responsibility of doing so honestly, and has put my country and the entire world into a recession/deression. greedy irresponsible dishonest people both business people, government people, and common people have wrecked (economic) havoc on my country and the entire world. yes, i'd say i have good reason to be upset at such people and their organizations. anything that "smells" of dishonest deceitful corrupt criminal theft upsets/irks me.

Kaysaar

23-02-2009, 06:55

I don't mean to pick on Kaysaar, but this is a pretty good example of most people's response here. KoProvoke seems to be saying that it would be like if there were a way to totally prevent anyone from even trying to skip the line in the first place, but, instead, they just let people skip the line for like an hour or two before they throw them out. That's an extra hour or two of pissing off people that don't skip the line.

Of course, there's no way to prevent people from skipping lines without there being, like, a team of security guards looking over every line, which would cost a lot, so they don't do it. Maybe something like that's happening with Blizzard, but I think that's what we should focus on—not on whether cheating bothers people. We all know that it does.

No worries Ulrira - KoProvoke seemed to jump over the other examples, so I was hoping that an ultra-simple analogy might simplify the argument a tad.

I think that the point that you raise in your last paragraph is the crux of the argument. So much of security is reactionary - for better or worse. Prevention is the best, but sometimes the logistics of full prevention are unfeasible, like the line-jumping example. This may be the case with Blizzard, but like you, I simply don't know. I think that if it were as simple as adding code into the Battle.net system to automatically block hacks and other third party programs, they would have done it already. They may be hesitant to implement something like this because their bot prevention software has had mixed successes, and some complaints from users when they try to leave and enter games in rapid succession. I'm not too much of a programming guy so this last part is pure speculation, but the sheer number of background programs running may cause problems for third party program detection software

Synchrotron

23-02-2009, 19:34

Blizzard has the right to ban people anytime they want but the thread starter has a point tought.

Blizzard abandoned D2 a long time ago they didnt care to ban people anymore but suddenly, after years not banning anyone, they decided to clean the servers and ban 300k people. Coincidentally the ban occurred right before WotLK expansion, that don't prove anything but opens some questioning about if they did that just to raise some funds.

That made me feel a little anger with Blizzard because, IMO, its not a disrespect with the banned people but it is a disrespect with legit players. We suffer trying to play D2 knowing that Blizzard is not going to fix the cheating and suddenly Blizzard bans a lot of people and forget about the game right after. I doubt its so hard to find and ban cheaters periodically.

I can be wrong but I doubt we are going to see a new mass ban again (maybe one weak before D3 launch).

Agkistrodon

23-02-2009, 20:44

I fully agree with banning cheaters. I think it's a great way to generate revenue while keeping battle.net free for Diablo II users. If they didn't ban people, no one would ever buy a new copy of the game, and if that were the case there is a very strong possibility of battle.net (for D2) turning into a pay-to-play system.

Here's what I don't agree with: Banning someone for using d2loader to play without a CD. Am I enhancing game play? No, not really. If you consider eliminating lag from my stupid CD Rom spinning up/down to access information enhancing game play, then fine, but I don't think Blizzard intentionally built lag into the game.

Yes, I realize (or so I'm told) that v1.12 eliminated the need for d2loader, but I just started playing D2 again just a few weeks ago, and after fighting with my CD Rom for days I decided to just use d2loader to solve my problem. I hadn't heard anything about the patch letting you play without a CD and I did not realize they just decided to start banning for d2loader.

I think a warning would have been sufficient. Had they sent me some kind of email saying:

"We have detected that you are using D2Loader. Your account will be closed and your CD Key will be banned in two days if this behavior continues. If you are using D2Loader to play without a CD please realize that patch 1.12 will solve this problem for you."

But now I've been banned and will have to go buy another copy, and I think that's unfair. I don't use Maphack, I don't bot, I don't dupe items, and I don't spam or harass other players. I am a legitimate player who just wanted to play without a CD Rom. It's wrong to punish me for that, period.

Rancors

23-02-2009, 21:20

u can play d2 without cd not using d2loader. blizzard had provided a newest patch to do so.

the thing is, d2loader is still considered 3rd party program, no matter how unharmful it seems.

KnS

23-02-2009, 21:34

Agkistrodon

23-02-2009, 21:46

u can play d2 without cd not using d2loader. blizzard had provided a newest patch to do so.

Yes, I am well aware of that, NOW. I didn't know that when I was getting d2loader. That's why I think there should be some kind of warning. There is no need to instantly close an account and ban a CD Key on the first MINOR offense. A warning would have sufficed.

Scudstorm

23-02-2009, 22:04

But now I've been banned and will have to go buy another copy, and I think that's unfair. I don't use Maphack, I don't bot, I don't dupe items, and I don't spam or harass other players. I am a legitimate player who just wanted to play without a CD Rom. It's wrong to punish me for that, period.

It's possible that Blizzard has no means to detect what kind of 3rd party program is running, except the fact that there is one. I know quite a few people making their own versions of Maphack and other cheating programs (which wouldn't be recognized as a know 3rd party program or can even disguise itself into something closer to D2Loader), so maybe Blizzard just ban 'em all.

Agkistrodon

23-02-2009, 22:11

It's possible that Blizzard has no means to detect what kind of 3rd party program is running, except the fact that there is one. I know quite a few people making their own versions of Maphack and other cheating programs (which wouldn't be recognized as a know 3rd party program or can even disguise itself into something closer to D2Loader), so maybe Blizzard just ban 'em all.

You make a good point, but I also still stand by my point, and that is that Blizzard should give you some kind of warning, even if only once. If they would give users a chance to correct their wrong doings I think it would make players less hateful toward Blizzard.

This is why I think the original poster of this thread is right; they care more about the money they generate by banning people than they do their fan base. They should put just a little bit more effort into customer service. If they gave one firm warning it would give honest users a chance to correct the situation, while cheaters who continue to use the 3rd party programs fully deserve to get banned and have to pay for a new copy of the game.

Maybe do an IP Ban for 24 hours with a written reason for why the IP Ban occurred. Something like:

"We have detected the use of a 3rd party program from this IP Address. This ban will last for 24 hours, after this warning your account will be closed and your CD Key will be permanently banned if we detect any more violations from your IP Address/CD Key/User Account."

I think that would be more fair, an instant ban with no warning is a little bit over the top.

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 22:22

i see where you are coming from but its not for any particualr reason that sales drop. Its just the pattern that EVERY game follows. Like Halo 3 and so on.
The majority will buy it within the first week and the small portion who dontdo later.
But your point as to why blizzard ban people i agree. Money making more than anything :nod: :coffee:

I know every game drops in sales after a while that`s not what I meant. I said that it drops like whooooooooooooooooo really big deleted drop man LOL

visom

23-02-2009, 22:35

"big deleted drop", how big exactly is that?

Pretend we(diii.net members) are the entire D2 population. Once D3 comes out, 90% of us will buy it on the first 1-3 day its released so of course its a big drop.

KoProvoke

23-02-2009, 23:05

"big fkn drop", how big exactly is that?

Pretend we(diii.net members) are the entire D2 population. Once D3 comes out, 90% of us will buy it on the first 1-3 day its released so of course its a big drop.

gg deleted! I love you!

afk

Orphan

23-02-2009, 23:12

I'm not saying I necessarily believe KoProvoke's theory, but I think everyone's missing this point. KoProvoke's absolutely right: if Blizzard could prevent users from even using a maphack in the first place, then they wouldn't be preventing cheating at all by banning cheaters—they'd be letting them cheat for a little while instead of not at all. If cheating just pisses off legitimate players, if cheating's just a bad thing, why allow some of it when they could totally eliminate it?

Don't be fooled by the OP's optimistic stance that "Such programs are easely blockable by a simple coding that disconnects you from battle.net each time you activate the program". If it was as easy as that, it'd have been done already. Hell, almost every game has some form of cheating in it's community which the developers have to combat, because people will always find a way.

I remember back there was a major controversy for a certain game (can't remember which, though it might have been HOMM5 or Hellgate) that involved shipping it with some anti-cheating software. This software basically just sat on your computer and monitored which programs you ran, which is pretty much the only guaranteed way to stop cheating, but it's also a major privacy intrusion which resulted in the entire community being up in arms and the software was eventually pulled from the game.

Also, with regards to the IP thing, Bladewind is right. Even though ISP's are usually allocated a certain range of IP addresses, those IP's can be assigned to anyone who uses that ISP, sometimes changing as often as every few hours. This means that a cheater could have IP address xx.xx.xx.xx at this time, but 4 hours later a legit user could get that if they use the same ISP. I don't think anyone would like to just jump online and find out their banned because some Neanderthal got an IP ban. It doesn't work.

If anyone thinks that Blizzard are just banning people who cheat for revenue, then why not stick it to them and avoid cheating altogether? That would "ruin" their "profits", wouldn't it. If everyone did it, then we can show Blizzard the "error of their ways" and they can go "bankrupt".

Finally KoProvoke, please do not bypass the word filter and resort to name calling. You started this topic looking for a debate, so keep things on a mature level.

Thyiad

24-02-2009, 01:02

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 01:10

Blizzard permanently banned more then 300 000 cd-keys. Why is that important? Its a 15 000 000$ scam towards us, the gamers.

you XxXx.

if you got banned from D2, it was because you were using some kind of a hack. use of hacks is against both the EULA and the B.Net ToU. you got what you deserved, nothing more, nothing less.

Yes, I am well aware of that, NOW. I didn't know that when I was getting d2loader. That's why I think there should be some kind of warning. There is no need to instantly close an account and ban a CD Key on the first MINOR offense. A warning would have sufficed.

Blizzard gives you such a warning EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOG IN WITH A CHARACTER.

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/8785/blizzwarning.jpg

it's not their fault that you ignore their warnings about hacks. you use a hack, you pay the price. stop whining.

Thyiad

24-02-2009, 01:16

@ mephiztophelez - Could you also keep an element of courtesy in your posts. Name calling doesn't really validate your point. Thanks.

GoldenBird

24-02-2009, 01:17

The University gives me a 3 hour math exam and a chair. Since I don't like to write on my knees on a bending paper I go get a table from the other room.
The other idiots who write the exam on their knees call the supervisor and complain about me cheating. Does it make me a cheater?
Yes it does. I am a cheater in a mental institution for mental retards that calls itself a gaming community.

Wow. Buddy. You need REAL help on your analogies.

Created by the hacker under the name Mousepad, we don't even know if that hacker isn't a blizzards programmer paid to do a job.

Well, one thing that I haven't seen brought up:

Where on this planet do you get this crap anyways? Let's see the proof you have of a blizzard employee being paid to hack. Furthermore, what affect would they have? You just stated that they are there, but you have yet to state how they would negatively affect us. And where did you get that they're doing it for profit? Maybe they're doing it to have a hack-free game? If they're really doing it for profit, I want to see the proof.
Its a bit like leaving a door open and saying ''if you walk in that door, you'll be banned'' when they can clearly put a dam lock on the door and make sure no one can get in.

That's why you don't walk in the door. DUUUHHHH!!!!

If they would give users a chance to correct their wrong doings...

Wow...

Blizzard gives you such a warning EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU LOG IN WITH A CHARACTER.

I think you need to circle the warning in bright orange or red or something because apparently no one sees one of the like a million warnings that pop up.

And really, anyone who doesn't think that hacking is wrong is just disgusting. Seriously, do you think that you're supposed to hack or something? You're supposed to ruin the game for legit players? If you were supposed to, then I think duping and already explored maps would have been included in the game!

Blizzard's got every right to ban cheaters right off the bat!

KoProvoke

24-02-2009, 01:33

Wow. Buddy. You need REAL help on your analogies.

Well, one thing that I haven't seen brought up:

Where on this planet do you get this crap anyways? Let's see the proof you have of a blizzard employee being paid to hack. Furthermore, what affect would they have? You just stated that they are there, but you have yet to state how they would negatively affect us.

That's why you don't walk in the door. DUUUHHHH!!!!

But you are tempted to walk through it fag, to see what lies behind it, it's what pushed men to sail across the Atlantic, people like what's forbidden!

You knew that the wine from behind the faggots is the best wine right?

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 01:40

@ mephiztophelez - Could you also keep an element of courtesy in your posts. Name calling doesn't really validate your point. Thanks.

you'll notice i edited that myself. before i read this post in point of fact.

KoProvoke

24-02-2009, 01:41

I have removed several OT posts. Bans are only discussed with the banned member. Not the general populace. No matter how amusing it may be to do so.

KoProvoke, please try to communicate without the profanity. It really does make you look foolish. :)

Thank you. :)

Hey! I don't think you should remove that post...ya...I think you should put it back. LOL I'm joking sorry had to make fun of that newb one more time lol.

you'll notice i edited that myself. before i read this post in point of fact.

Learn some manners fag he doesn't have to notice anything haven't you seen his avatar. You're the one who has to notice stuff around here and do what he sais.

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 01:47

Created by the hacker under the name Mousepad, we don't even know if that hacker isn't a blizzards programmer paid to do a job.

if Mousepad was a Blizzard Employee, why did Blizzard send a bunch of "men-in-black" (eg: corporate lawyer types) around to Mousepads house a few years ago brandising "Cease And Desist" court orders? Mousepad was selling his hax for $$$ (substantial amounts of $$$ at that)

(don't believe me, go google mousepad's forums. it's all there)

stillman

24-02-2009, 02:07

Hege, don't you think cheaters deserve to pay more money? I don't care who ends up getting it. If Blizzard is getting their money, so what?

Matora

24-02-2009, 02:10

Learn some manners fag ...

Right back at you.

The shop down the road also leaves their sunglasses rack out the front of the store without a security guard. Pretty tempting huh? I still go and pay for a pair.

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 02:14

Learn some manners fag he doesn't have to notice anything haven't you seen his avatar. You're the one who has to notice stuff around here and do what he sais.

interesting how you have simply avoided answering any of my points.

on another note: now i get to see if Thyiad is consistent in her modding.

nicro tower

24-02-2009, 02:19

/facepalm

Our nation just lost a few more braincells.

And KoProvoke, please work on your analogies as a poster above said. What is so unkwown when you have a big red warning sign that says use hacks and get banned?

KoProvoke

24-02-2009, 02:28

interesting how you have simply avoided answering any of my points.

on another note: now i get to see if Thyiad is consistent in her modding.

You clearly aren't learning are you? Who the **** are you to account for the moderator's consistency? When the moderator talks you take notes ok? You don't talk back and tell her to notice stuff ok?

Matora

24-02-2009, 02:35

Okay ladies, turn the flames down a notch. Let's get on topic and mod ourselves with the "preview post" button ok?

And you still kinda haven't answered any of mephiztophelez' points yet. (<-- low flame, only a little burned)

Scudstorm

24-02-2009, 03:05

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/4166/table.jpg

Oh I get it, you don't understand university stuff it's not for you sir. I'll try to find a McDonald's analogy for you.

Maphack isn't a table, because you are meant to write on a table and NOT meant to play D2 with Maphack. Maphack a drug that makes you think faster than all the other people doing the exam.

Do you watch the Olympics? Look at how they deal with this kind of stuff.

And please stop the name calling and the disdainful (and not so well thought out) sarcasm. Doesn't help your credibility any.

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 03:17

And please stop the name calling and the disdainful (and not so well thought out) sarcasm. Doesn't help your credibility any.

KoProvoke
DiabloII.Net Member

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 24

his credibility isn't all that good anyways.

GoldenBird

24-02-2009, 03:30

Oh I get it, you don't understand university stuff it's not for you sir. I'll try to find a McDonald's analogy for you.

Actually, could you not necessarily give us a McDonald's analogy? I want an analogy that actually makes sense, because quite frankly, I have yet to get the whole point of your arguments and your hate for Blizzard banning hackers.

And please, if you're going to diss someone, would you make sure that it makes sense?

KoProvoke

24-02-2009, 03:35

Actually, could you not necessarily give us a McDonald's analogy? I want an analogy that actually makes sense, because quite frankly, I have yet to get the whole point of your arguments and your hate for Blizzard banning hackers.

And please, if you're going to diss someone, would you make sure that it makes sense?

I'm not dissing anyone you ppl have, how do you call it, paranoid delusion! Where do you see, show me a post where I dissed someone. Show now

nicro tower

24-02-2009, 03:45

KoProvoke

24-02-2009, 04:01

Ugh stupid post didn't post. And you implied that I was stupid.... which is, unsurprisingly, considered an insult.

Oh, and your table example fails. The teachers would have no reason to make you write an exam without a table, plus it's counterproductive. On the other hand, Blizzard has an excellent reason to ban people for using hacks.

Does blizzard have a reason to send you wandering around without a map?

If this was real, you could ask someone in town to give you a map of the surroundings...etc. Its stupid not to have a map ok. Discuss.

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 04:03

I'm not dissing anyone you ppl have, how do you call it, paranoid delusion! Where do you see, show me a post where I dissed someone. Show now
how about this one?
Ya I bet chicks jump all over you when they hear you have so many posts.

*deleted*

or this one:

You clearly aren't learning are you? Who the **** are you to account for the moderator's consistency? When the moderator talks you take notes ok? You don't talk back and tell her to notice stuff ok?
i rekon these both fit the title of a "diss".

or any of the other rude comments you threw my way. at least i had the grace to swiftly edit myself.

Grug

24-02-2009, 04:07

The reason your analogy sucks is because you imply that MapHack is a necessity. It's not, otherwise it would be in the game.

You discover the map because it's meant to be a surprise. And you'll get your map of the surroundings because outdoors will always be the same shape.

You're a troll and a n00b with capital zeroes.

KoProvoke

24-02-2009, 04:10

how about this one?

or this one:

i rekon these both fit the title of a "diss".

or any of the other rude comments you threw my way. at least i had the grace to swiftly edit myself.

Editing yourself means the following:

- you don't know what you're talking about
- you have no character
- you don't believe in your own opinions
- you're a coward
- you're afraid to face the consequences of your own writings
- you hit and run, you insult and then edit, way to go

Bladewind

24-02-2009, 04:11

The reason your analogy sucks is because you imply that MapHack is a necessity. It's not, otherwise it would be in the game.

/end thread

Grug

24-02-2009, 04:20

Welcome to the internet, KoProvoke. Off topic happens. Especially when it's funny.

By the way, did you know that in Dungeons and Dragons, the best way to kill a Troll is with Fire?

Bladewind

24-02-2009, 04:20

KoProvoke tone it down. Calling names if you cannot argue your points is useless. Sorry but these forums here are by far the most anti-hack I ever seen. If you want to, you can make your claims in the other FG forums. ;)

Wormnet

24-02-2009, 04:30

If this was real, you could ask someone in town to give you a map of the surroundings...etc. Its stupid not to have a map ok. Discuss.
I didn't know cartographers went to hell...

I also didn't know that some people needed explanation as to why using a maphack is pathetic. Seriously, you need a fully-discovered map to play Diablo? What? The game's not linear enough for you?

Learn something everyday.

If this was real, nobody would ask you for help...

mephiztophelez

24-02-2009, 04:35

Man if you have an on topic comment to make about my opinions make it or else **** off and find yourself an avatar.
i've made several on-topic comment, all of which you have studiously ignored and responded with flames and insults.

KoProvoke tone it down. Calling names if you cannot argue your points is useless. Sorry but these forums here are by far the most anti-hack I ever seen. If you want to, you can make your claims in the other FG forums. ;)

ummm, third most anti-hack forums. the Barons Bazaar and The Amazon Basin both have much more hard-core rules about Legit play than diii.net.

edit, just saw this:

Editing yourself means the following:

- you don't know what you're talking about
- you have no character
- you don't believe in your own opinions
- you're a coward
- you're afraid to face the consequences of your own writings
- you hit and run, you insult and then edit, way to go

no, editing it, immmediatly after i posted it mind you, say's that i KNEW what i posted was out of line and decided to change it rather than get whacked for it.

for the record, i DO believe you're a Moron rather than an XxXx. at the rate you're going, i predict you won't be around here much longer.