Enemy Life Bars [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

AtomicJ

22-02-2009, 19:51

That would be a cool option.:yes: I never played WoW, so I didn't realize Blizzard included options like that in its recent games. I hope they do that with D3.

I think they are just fine, i never felt for a sec that they obscured the action during the gameplay demo .. not even one bit.

I feel this complain is just being pro-D2 for no good reason but either way i don't mind an option to turn it off or switch it to the old top of the screen style .. although i'm never gonna use that option.

To each their own opinion. They bug me, though (and apparently some other people, too). I'm not trying to be pro-D2 or nitpick D3, believe me. I'm not a big enough gamer to get into comparing the two. I love D3 and the direction it's going. It's just personal preference.

It's just odd that Blizzard would remove the zoomed in conversation screens (which I liked) because they thought it "took us out of the game", yet keep the giant red bars that pop up right in the middle of the action where your cursor is, obscuring enemies. For me, those life bars take me out of the game.:wink:

Anyway, I digress. I hope Blizzard makes an official statement about them. I was hoping they'd already covered it, but I guess not.

Grug

22-02-2009, 19:51

I don't mind the life bars over the mooks. It's nice to have it somewhere close because they die so fast. However, keeping the health bar of a boss at the top of the screen is a GREAT idea! It makes you remember what you're fighting, and you can see some real progress when you whittle it down from full to half.

starmelt

23-02-2009, 03:11

Bladewind

23-02-2009, 03:31

Life bars should be in. There is always a simple toggle for everything...

AtomicJ

23-02-2009, 08:37

There is always a simple toggle for everything...

What do you mean?

KillaMike

24-02-2009, 15:05

just gonna have toggle option for "on top of screen" "on top of monster" "on top of nowhere (aka off)"

GoldenBird

25-02-2009, 00:50

Have to agree, I hate the new life bars. They look so arcade-ish, so much like a flash game imo. I like the classic one from D2 with the blood red color and then the dark golden letters... to me it looks alot more gothic.

I guess it's ok just as long as they don't have a green/red health bar.

AtomicJ

25-02-2009, 02:53

I don't mind them at the top of the screen, as long as they're not obscuring the action.

KillaMike

25-02-2009, 11:01

I guess it's ok just as long as they don't have a green/red health bar.

agree ^_^ totaly

Phranx

25-02-2009, 22:12

I hope you are able to see what debuffs and buffs are applied to the monsters, I love being able to see all the numbers and would like to know when and for how long I've set a monster on fire for. Although this could be achieved by icons or animations.

Whatever they do I sure hope there are still monsters with random stats like D2 did, for this some sort of life bar would be necessary to see.

MobileEMP

27-02-2009, 01:23

I love tweaking options. :)

I think it would be awesome to have an option to only show a life bar for the first "X" number of that enemy you encountered in that dungeon or region. If you want it on top of their head great, or you could switch it to the top of the screen.

Then after you kill 20 or so, it would just turn off, because you already know how many hits it takes to kill one of those zombies or other evil creatures.

Srikandi

27-02-2009, 21:41

Better than life bars would be damage skins :) Critter changes appearance as it takes more damage. Or loses limbs, moves differently etc... I remember that being a cool new feature in, ummmm, Wizardry 8?

Expensive to implement though, don't expect to see it happening in this type of game... where almost everything dies so fast ;)

They could do it for bosses maybe though.

Grug

27-02-2009, 23:47

You're gonna get your wish, Srikandi. Blizz had stated that they want the monsters to appear, fight, and die in more interesting ways. Bashiok already gave a big no to visible wounds on enemies (took too much programming), but the enemies will change in more appreciable ways. Skeleton shieldman can have their shields broken, and of course the Dark Vessels transform. If you just watch the video you can see that the Thousand Pounder changes colors after half its life is gone, getting faster and angrier.

Srikandi

01-03-2009, 00:47

oh nice -- thanks Grug :D

Grug

01-03-2009, 00:55

No problem!

Dahmer

02-03-2009, 15:49

My guess would be that diablo 3 will have much of the customization world of warcraft does. This meaning you can disable or enable the enemy life bars with the press of a button.I'm hoping they're not going that way.

Diablo has always been about how YOU play, not about how good you are at finding the right addon(s) or macro(s) to make it way easier for you to play.
If it has the same amount of customization like World of Warcraft they might aswell allow bots too because they're not that far off.

Agkistrodon

02-03-2009, 18:24

...I feel this complain is just being pro-D2 for no good reason...

I think it's funny how every post I see where people are talking about Diablo II features you feel a need to say that. Did you ever think people might be "pro-D2" because D2 was a good game and everyone here loved it? It would seem to me that you are border line anti-D2. Why is that?

There is a "good reason" for this complaint. The health bars deviate from how the Diablo series should feel. The hovering health bars are just a carbon copy from every other game where you kill monsters. At the very least there should be an option to change it back to the original D2 style, as was already suggested in this thread.

Knight_Wolf

02-03-2009, 21:59

I think it's funny how every post I see where people are talking about Diablo II features you feel a need to say that. Did you ever think people might be "pro-D2" because D2 was a good game and everyone here loved it? It would seem to me that you are border line anti-D2. Why is that?

Just because it was a good game (which is right but doesn't mean it was perfect) that every sequel must be an identical copy of D2 .. that's just ridiculous.

Need i say what is the difference between a sequel and an expansion pack or isn't it quite obvious ... put D2 aside and go play some other games and check their sequels to see how much each game advances and changes in every sequel.

There is really no point in a sequel if it's not going to change/add/remove things from the original .. otherwise ... stick to expansion packs .. you seem to be expecting a second D2 expansion pack in 3D .. which isn't the case.

There is a "good reason" for this complaint. The health bars deviate from how the Diablo series should feel.

What kind of excuse is that !!!! .... The "how the Diablo series should feel." is only in your head ... some other people out there don't mind change and improvement and aren't afraid of a different Diablo experience ... and obviously "how the game should be" is decided by the game designers not us.

The hovering health bars are just a carbon copy from every other game where you kill monsters. At the very least there should be an option to change it back to the original D2 style, as was already suggested in this thread.

It's not about being a carbon copy or not (which it really isn't) .. if there are other games doing this out there then there must be a reason why they do it ... it works .. simple as that.

And i clearly said i don't mind an option to switch things back to how D2 was .. although i'm not going to use .. and even doubt the D3 developers will do it.

Agkistrodon

02-03-2009, 22:37

Need i say what is the difference between a sequel and an expansion pack or isn't it quite obvious ...

No, no need. I've read it 4 or 5 times in some of your other posts.

There is really no point in a sequel if it's not going to change/add/remove things from the original .. otherwise ... stick to expansion packs .. you seem to be expecting a second D2 expansion pack in 3D .. which isn't the case.

Ah, never mind, I guess the first question was meant to be rhetorical.

The "how the Diablo series should feel." is only in your head ...

Where it rightfully should be.

some other people out there don't mind change and improvement and aren't afraid of a different Diablo experience ...

I'm not "afraid" of a different Diablo experience, but I will certainly be disappointed if it is completely different from D2. I personally did not enjoy D1 near as much as D2, I think they implemented a lot of great ideas into D2 and I would hate to see them abandon too many of them.

there must be a reason why they do it ... it works .. simple as that.

Well, not necessarily. I can't say I like any other game as much as I like D2, and there is no denying that Diablo II is the most popular multiplayer slash-n-hack (or is it hack-n-slash? whatever, you get my point) game ever.

And i clearly said i don't mind an option to switch things back to how D2 was ..

I am aware of what you said. I was simply reinforcing it as a good idea.

and even doubt the D3 developers will do it.

That would certainly be a shame.

Doctor Salvador

02-03-2009, 23:06

I can't say I like any other game as much as I like D2, and there is no denying that Diablo II is the most popular multiplayer slash-n-hack (or is it hack-n-slash? whatever, you get my point) game ever.

Psh, everyone knows it's hack-n-slash.

Well, this is something I literally did not notice at all, and I probably won't notice it while playing the game. But in all seriousness it is impressive how we notice little details about games.

BrotherRatcliff

02-03-2009, 23:29

I really like the new lifebars location, and the way bosses show always at the top of the screen is great. I don't know about the visual style of them though. I think it would be good if we had an option page for the life bars much like we did for the map in D2.

You could have over the head or classic top of the screen views or off as people have already stated. You could also have a fade option for those that want to tone them back so you can see the graphics better, and even a size option that could change the bars from being like single pixel hairlines to the "fatter" bars shown in the vids.

The reason I like the new location is that it allows you to keep an eye on the enemy's life while not looking away to the top of the screen. I loved D2 but one of my complaints about it is that once I got better chrs I basically played the game looking at the map and the life bars, never really even seeing the action going on. It would be nice if they could give the players a way to get that information without having to look away from or cover too much of the newly upgraded graphics.

Doppel

03-03-2009, 02:37

Well, i don't like them because they are arcadish. Icons/bars/numbers/whatever should absolutely not appear on the playing field, under no circumstances, i simply do not want to see any of the sort hovering over a monster, or indicating something, or showing me a numeric calculation it did, nothing. I think its downright appalling.

Grug

03-03-2009, 03:35

Doppel, Diablo IS arcadish. It's not meant to be as immersive as Oblivion or Mass Effect.

Doppel

03-03-2009, 04:37

Diablo is absolutely not arcadish (is that even how its spelled? lol), Diablo was the "reinvention" of the Rogue type game, there was nothing arcadish about it, there were no abstract symbols in the playing field (as in a quest compass for example, or a "go down one level" symbol, etc,...), nothing of what would not be real for the character (floating numbers, floating lifebars) was in the playing field and it was absolutely immersive. (Btw, i was not immersed by Oblivion, for different reasons)

Bladewind

03-03-2009, 06:06

Well Diablo has Hp / SP levels in numbers, defense and damage in numbers also..... Stats are numbers as well.

It is a number cruncher. Face it.

AkumaSlayer

03-03-2009, 06:44

The health and mana are represented by orbs, and all the stats aren't on the main screen - you have to open the character screen to see them.

I agree with Doppel - Diablo 1 and 2 may have some arcade elements in them but they certainly weren't going for that feel. From what we've seen in D3, they are bringing in many new features like the floating numbers and health bars (and of course the life orbs) and this is making the game look too arcadish and un-diablolike.

The numbers and health bars should be optional displays - this will please everyone.

Agkistrodon

03-03-2009, 16:12

From what we've seen in D3, they are bringing in many new features like the floating numbers and health bars (and of course the life orbs) and this is making the game look too arcadish and un-diablolike.

The numbers and health bars should be optional displays - this will please everyone.

I completely agree.

And just so you know, Knight_Wolf, I don't totally disagree with you. I understand and embrace the fact that with new sequels come new features, but I feel that Blizzard is adding too many arcadish features. The combination of Health Orbs and over-the-head enemy life bars make me cringe. And I don't know anything about the floating numbers that AkumaSlayer mentioned, but that also just adds to the arcade feeling. It's too many changes in the wrong direction if you ask me.

And, like everyone and their brother has already stated, I feel the characters are starting to resemble WoW characters, and I hate WoW with a passion.

There is no denying this: I will buy the game and play it, probably no matter what. I just hope it's not a disappointment.

Doctor Salvador

03-03-2009, 21:39

The numbers and health bars should be optional displays - this will please everyone.

The only on-screen numbers I saw was the "AAAAALLLL RIIIIIGHHT NEW COMBO +100 EXP" which was hilariously arcade-ish, heck it almost seemed like a satire. But I never noticed any others in any of the videos I've seen, are there numbers representing damage or healing popping up?

I'll admit that the orbs are very arcade-ish (For Diablo) but there is definitely good reason for that kind of thing.

The life bars, like I said in a previous post, I hadn't even noticed, but really like Akuma and others have said, a simple option button for D2 style, D3 style, or none would really just satisfy everybody.

Grug

03-03-2009, 23:14

Actually, the numbers are essential. Yes! They pop up whenever you deal a critical hit to enemies, so how else would you know that they're being silenced/stunned?

Mad Mantis

03-03-2009, 23:26

Actually, the numbers are essential. Yes! They pop up whenever you deal a critical hit to enemies, so how else would you know that they're being silenced/stunned?

Animations? Swirly patterns over their heads? Sounds even? Visual and/or audio cues can work better than numbers. I don't really mind the life bars, but I do hate the "block" that appeared in some videos. They can convey that information in another way that might even be easier to process than reading.

Doppel

04-03-2009, 01:29

Actually, the numbers are essential. Yes! They pop up whenever you deal a critical hit to enemies, so how else would you know that they're being silenced/stunned?

I don't want to see a freaking number pop up whenever i score a critical, i want to see my enemies being beat the crap out of them when i score a critical. And no, they aren't essential, or is it too hard to figure out how much a 50% to crit is?
Thus, i also do not agree with whoever implies "simply being able to turn these arcadish features off" is "good enough".

Dahmer

04-03-2009, 08:47

KillaMike

04-03-2009, 11:12

Well Diablo has Hp / SP levels in numbers, defense and damage in numbers also..... Stats are numbers as well.

It is a number cruncher. Face it.

lol ^_^ :crazyeyes:

Agkistrodon

04-03-2009, 16:44

Animations? Swirly patterns over their heads? Sounds even? Visual and/or audio cues can work better than numbers. I don't really mind the life bars, but I do hate the "block" that appeared in some videos. They can convey that information in another way that might even be easier to process than reading.

I agree, this is DIABLO III for God's Sake, I think they can come up with some better, more gruesome ways of showing damage dealt than the corny, arcadish looking numbers and floating, over-the-head life bars.... In case anyone forgot, we won't be playing MapleStory (Youtube it, it has the same lame health bars and numbers), we'll be playing Diablo III. Diablo III

If I have a critical strike, I want to see an arm go flying across the screen or something. I don't want to see "YAY! CRITICAL STRIKE! GOOD JOB! A+" appear above the monster's head. Show me a kidney falling out and bouncing a couple of feet away from the monster I just nailed with a critical strike.

I also don't want to see the craptastic EXP messages going up the side of the screen, the little bar at the bottom is sufficient.

Do I like the idea of Life/Mana orbs dropping? No, I don't, but I am willing to accept the fact that it will supposedly make the game faster paced. But how do floating health bars and numbers enhance game play? They don't. Plain and simple.

Grug

04-03-2009, 19:32

Approon

04-03-2009, 19:56

The numbers appear only when you get a crit.

And where would you want the enemy health bars? Top of the screen? You'd lose track of who you're targetting if you had to keep flicking back and forth from the battle to the bar.

I never had any problem related to being confused or losing track of my enemy in diablo I & II, because usually they are many weaker enemies in which i dont really care how much life each one has, then we have the case with special units and such, and they are not really hard to track in a crowd. My opinion.

Imaging "the secret cow level" with 50 lifebars on screen, -_-

Grug

04-03-2009, 20:18

The life bars only appear if you mouse over the enemy, dumpkoff.

Knight_Wolf

04-03-2009, 20:24

Imaging "the secret cow level" with 50 lifebars on screen, -_-

Lols, Go watch the gameplay videos again .. the life bars on top of enemy heads only appear when you put the cursor on top of that enemy :wave:

And D3 will have no Cow level :crazyeyes:

Telzen

05-03-2009, 07:05

Thus, i also do not agree with whoever implies "simply being able to turn these arcadish features off" is "good enough".
Why? Just like you don't want to be forced to see them, others don't want to be forced to not see them. So you want to dictate what others can see? How does it effect you if you can cut them off?

AkumaSlayer

05-03-2009, 07:52

I don't want to see a freaking number pop up whenever i score a critical, i want to see my enemies being beat the crap out of them when i score a critical. And no, they aren't essential, or is it too hard to figure out how much a 50% to crit is?
Thus, i also do not agree with whoever implies "simply being able to turn these arcadish features off" is "good enough".

Of course it's good enough. A toggle to remove the floating numbers and a toggle to move the health bar to the top of the screen would make it the same as D1 and D2. What more do you need?

I think they even have a feature implemented in D3 which gives monsters a special death if you crit them on the final blow.

Approon

05-03-2009, 09:32

Im sorry for my mistake about the lifebars, but then i still dont have any trouble with having a bar on top of the screen instead of something over the head of the enemy. Now that you say you only get lifebar on the enemy youre hovering you dont get any more overview.

Doppel

05-03-2009, 17:20

Why? Just like you don't want to be forced to see them, others don't want to be forced to not see them. So you want to dictate what others can see? How does it effect you if you can cut them off?

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about forcing anything upon anyone. What i'm talking about is having the ability to turn a feature like "numbers on crit" off isn't enough on itself if they don't add in nice visual alternatives for when you crit.
In a nutshell "arcadish features" (whether or not they can be turned off) doesn't give them leeway to not bother with the overall quality of visuals/audio/etc...

SlechtWeerBeer

05-03-2009, 21:58

I think you misunderstood me. I'm not talking about forcing anything upon anyone. What i'm talking about is having the ability to turn a feature like "numbers on crit" off isn't enough on itself if they don't add in nice visual alternatives for when you crit.
In a nutshell "arcadish features" (whether or not they can be turned off) doesn't give them leeway to not bother with the overall quality of visuals/audio/etc...

Crits cause violent explosive deaths (esp on Super Uniques or what did he call em? Bad memory).
However, some animation for a non-lethal crit would be useful (I'd turn off the crit numbers unless I want to see big numbers to see how much damage I actually cause).

Akse

06-03-2009, 15:50

Of course it's good enough. A toggle to remove the floating numbers and a toggle to move the health bar to the top of the screen would make it the same as D1 and D2. What more do you need?

I think they even have a feature implemented in D3 which gives monsters a special death if you crit them on the final blow.

Seriously the health bar on top of the screen will suck *** with D3 resolutions(and camera distance!!).. Compare 480 height to 1050 - 1080.. thats over twice the distance you need to move your sight to watch the health bars. Even in D2 I have trouble keeping track which mob have how much health because the monsters move all the time and when I have cursor over a mob and look at the health.. it has moved and the cursor is above another monster.

AkumaSlayer

06-03-2009, 20:24

Seriously the health bar on top of the screen will suck *** with D3 resolutions(and camera distance!!).. Compare 480 height to 1050 - 1080.. thats over twice the distance you need to move your sight to watch the health bars. Even in D2 I have trouble keeping track which mob have how much health because the monsters move all the time and when I have cursor over a mob and look at the health.. it has moved and the cursor is above another monster

Well, you're entitled to your opinion - you can use the new setting. I just hope they include the option for anyone who prefers the life bars not in the middle of the screen, or wherever the monster is standing. I think moving life bars will be more difficult to keep track off than a stationary one.

Also, the resolution may be a bit different but I think the view is almost exactly the same as D1 and D2.

Kingu

06-03-2009, 21:54

I think if you can track monsters on you're screen, you won't have problem with tracking moving lifebars, unless they'll move in opposit direction.

Akse

06-03-2009, 22:38

Well, you're entitled to your opinion - you can use the new setting. I just hope they include the option for anyone who prefers the life bars not in the middle of the screen, or wherever the monster is standing. I think moving life bars will be more difficult to keep track off than a stationary one.

Also, the resolution may be a bit different but I think the view is almost exactly the same as D1 and D2.

In WoW there is a mouseover tooltip that by default is displayed in the bottom right screen.. its unusable on moving multiple targets.. had to get an addon to display it where my mouse is.

Anyways I'm quite sure they got some experience in developing and testing.. they are playing it all the time as far as I know.. and as a developer you get to see things and test them out.. they might have had that bar on the top first but found it hard to see it.. ofc if it is really really huge and highlighted you will see it even without moving your sight up there :P..

Grug

08-03-2009, 03:35

The fact that regular mobs dies so quickly is why they have the bars above their heads. The bar at the Top is a lot bigger than a bar over an enemy's head.

Knight_Wolf

08-03-2009, 18:25

The fact that regular mobs dies so quickly is why they have the bars above their heads. The bar at the Top is a lot bigger than a bar over an enemy's head.

They won't die that quickly in the final game specially at higher difficulties .. let's not forget the demo was rigged ... they were cheating to showcase the game.

Besides .. the size of the meter isn't the point .. the point is its location .. putting it on top of the screen is distracting specially at high resolutions and wide screens ... it is much easier for the eye to keep track of the bar/meter when it appears over the monster's head (once you point at that monster) ... while bosses get the unique privilege of having a huge bar on top of the screen .. which is ok if it's only for them.

Grug

09-03-2009, 23:48

Higher resolution = smaller UI.

Knight_Wolf

09-03-2009, 23:59

..read my previous post, resolution has nothing to do with "how far away" a top life bar is. and we're talking about a life bar that is (near) top centered, so what does wide screens have to do with anything?

You apparently is still thinking D3 is going to be 640x480 .. higher resolutions (specially wide screens at 1440x900 and above) means that both the UI, the monsters and the main character will be smaller and we will see more of the environments most of the time .. and when you want to focus on a small character fighting small monsters you don't want your eye wondering around to a point 500 pixels above .. it is DISTRACTING. :coffee:

Doppel

10-03-2009, 00:46

You clearly fail to comprehend the word "distracting".

AkumaSlayer

10-03-2009, 06:43

Yes, distracting is having red bars hovering over monsters that you're attacking.

However, I think almost everyone has agreed that both options would be good. Knight_Wolf will use the new moving life bars, and people who prefer the classic layout will use that.

There's not really much point in continuing this thread. The D3 team should be able to implement this option without any trouble, and let's hope they do.

SlechtWeerBeer

11-03-2009, 13:52

the player character will also be centered on screen all the time, like in d2 .. right beneath the top life bar. which means your eyes will be centered on screen more or less all of the time (during combat atleast).
and since the ui scales, no matter how high or wide your resolution is, the relation in distance, between the player and life bar will always be the same..

Not when Leaping, and I think Charge (or whatever the blue Barba-beam-attack is) makes your character go off-center a bit.

Also, in GuildWars UI scales with resolution. If you have a res of 800*600 and you use the XLarge UI setting, you'll not be able to see a thing. If you add 1000 pixels to both dimensions, XLarge UI will obstruct ~half of the screen, depending on how you arrange it (it's as good as completely customisable).

And even D II had that as far as I know; When you switch from 640*somethingsmall to 800*600 your character+UI becomes smaller, and the distance between the top bar and your character increases.