PvP In Diablo 3

[KoProvoke]

Many people ask if diablo 2 on battle.net is a pvp oriented environment. I say no it is not but it surely has potential which was revealed by the creation of d2pk realm. I will give you an example of a pvp oriented game:
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Quake 3 arena:

- Implementation of a fast, simple but efficient graphic engine
- Creation of a pvp environment and competition mecanics
- Servers open minded towards 3rd party software and pvp enhancing mods
- Creation of endless mod servers with endless pvp setups, weapons and challenges

One of the best quake 3 pvp mod is the Quake defrag mod, basically allows to move much faster in the environment and greatly enhances the pvp experience for all players, a bit like tmc in diablo 2.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many people argue about this but as a professional gamer I can say that if Diablo2 battle.net was a pvp oriented environment then mods like TMC, or Maphack would have became patch material and after a few patches everyone would have access to the most advanced pvp improvements.

Battle.net demonised the use of maphack as the ultimate evil while in fact such useful features should have long been patched. It was the same with tmc features, basically anything that can make the game pvp oriented and ESPECIALLY PVP FAIR, meaning everyone has good gear, was rejected and banned. Such ''fair'' duels are like the 200/142 fber duels on d2pk which only reveal the player skill in the wins so such things do exist and are fun to play.

Why? Because Diablo is a show off game. You show your friend your 141 shako and 1378 ap nigma and are so proud of yourself you can even get an orgasm once in a while. You spend hours getting gear, and probably lots of money too that blizzard cashes in with joy, why make it pvp, pvm pays better. So we'll let the idiots mf for weeks then, when they see that we give them no chance to gear themselves up, they will buy our fake items for a real $ value.

Many people contradict me and say that Blizzard wants to compensate dedicated players for their work and that's why good items drop...almost not at all. That is totally wrong. People who spend 2 months to go 99 should then be largely compensated by 100 stat points and 20 more skills to use. So it is not a ''compensation'' matter it is a $ matter, a matter where you buy items in stores to be good.
Also some idiot who spends 1 month to mf hes compensated with a nigma 2x sojs and a few gc lifers when I can scam all that from jsp in 1 hour. How is that person compensated for his work? I clearly don't understand it.

So as a conclusion for people talking about pvp, there won't be any good pvp around and you probably won't be able to tele on your barbs until 2013 when a d3nigma will appear and people will spend money in stores etc.
So...it's hopeless, because of the item corruption system.

[Rashiminos]

Shouldn't this be in the PvP forum? (ask a mod)

[KoProvoke]

Heh I'll post there too I guess, not like it's hard for a mod to remove a topic :P

[chenghao]

There should be a pvp environment within D3 itself.

granted the hostile within the normal game can be going against the general direction for D3

but surely , an arena / pvp mode can be enabled for the audience who are looking to pit characters against each other.

i for one , like to build PVP characters after i have explored PVM. There are so many things you can duel with , and its fun.

[satheron]

Most of the maphacks came with the chicken mod..


and your really suggesting the chicken mod is the cutting edge in pvp play which was demonized by blizzard?

Your suggesting that through the use of TMC, and more than likely Gmod to get..

Auto aim..far cast..and as I said before chicken are all cutting edge in pvp skills???

don't get me wrong I think d2jsp was great for the pvper, lvl up, and get your gear in no time. And its great.

X-x

but reallly... Help me out here.?

If you consider the likes of chicken/auto-aim to be the cutting edge to pvp, then I hope this post is a response to being banned.

[korialstraz]

So it is not a ''compensation'' matter it is a $ matter, a matter where you buy items in stores to be good.

I want to see proof of Blizzard being involved in selling items online for cash.

Also TMC does not enhance the PvP scene. If anything it makes it unbalanced. You can wear whatever you want and still reach the BPs needed for block, fcr, fhr etc. I've even heard you can modify res with it. Also you failed to mention chicken, auto juv, AA and flash hack. Non is enhancing in any way.

I could probably see a PvP only realm where you have unlimited access to whatever you want as long as it can spawn in game, but this would cause problems since I'm sure some people would use the PvP realm for PvM play.

[KoProvoke]

Most of the maphacks came with the chicken mod..


and your really suggesting the chicken mod is the cutting edge in pvp play which was demonized by blizzard?

Your suggesting that through the use of TMC, and more than likely Gmod to get..

Auto aim..far cast..and as I said before chicken are all cutting edge in pvp skills???

don't get me wrong I think d2jsp was great for the pvper, lvl up, and get your gear in no time. And its great.

X-x

but reallly... Help me out here.?

If you consider the likes of chicken/auto-aim to be the cutting edge to pvp, then I hope this post is a response to being banned.

TMC can be allowed if both players possess the same unmodified version and they both have the same chances of win from the start. All the other mods and hacks you talked about are not to be used because they affect player skill mecanics, TMC does not affect any of that as long as both players benefit from it. Someone who cannot nl properly or aim at a distance, with TMC he won`t do any better and it is proven that making the game go faster requires much more skill and fast thinking to handle it.
That`s why professional players like fatal1ty, Aim or Toxic always compete against each other on fast modded games, basically they walk faster shoot faster, a bit like tmc in diablo 2. This means that a player winning without tmc may not win tmc vs tmc against other better skilled player because the faster the game goes, the harder it is to apply a strategy and good reflexes and fast thinking come into play.

Gmod, autoaim fc etc. are all newb hacks and they`re bannable of course, no one would like to have a no skill newb having such a pvp advantage over legit players, it would be plain stupid. And even if both players have those, what`s the point, there is no point in dueling like that.

I want to see proof of Blizzard being involved in selling items online for cash.

Also TMC does not enhance the PvP scene. If anything it makes it unbalanced. You can wear whatever you want and still reach the BPs needed for block, fcr, fhr etc. I've even heard you can modify res with it. Also you failed to mention chicken, auto juv, AA and flash hack. Non is enhancing in any way.

I could probably see a PvP only realm where you have unlimited access to whatever you want as long as it can spawn in game, but this would cause problems since I'm sure some people would use the PvP realm for PvM play.

The Diablo items are Blizzard`s property. Do you honestly think Blizzard would let a bunch of idiots make profit on their property without getting a share? Barbie doll company sued Aqua for using ''barbie'' name in their song. Wake up sir.

What you said about TMC. The game has a problem sir. When I duel nvn at 125fcr bp with no tmc I fall asleep sir. It's too deleted! slow :D. Me and my friends like Matrony always use tmc when we duel it's a must, otherwise it's just plain retarded.
I don't care if it messes up the fhr bps or what gear we ware, we both ware tmc proof gear like 3pnb 100life 2os circlets etc and the pvp is much more interesting then what battle.net gives.

The only people I met who complained about tmc use was those who were tmcing and failed at it badly and instead of saying '' I cant go that fast sorry'' they said '' I play legit sorry fag hacker''. It's always like that with you people. It's always my fault, DrinkNDrIve's fault, Ben's fault, Rob's fault, hibria's fault that you people cant play that fast.

I met so many people who did nvn and all they could do was max goelm mastery and nl you for goelm glitch. I mean you fall for it once then you tele around them and aim from a distance and make it 5-1 your win. They gona ***** about you l8zing but thats bullcrap. Diablo non professional players tend to rely on gear and game glitches to win and when they lose to real duelers who don't fall for their crap, they find 1000 excuses to justify it and I don't think any of you should waste their time with such idiots.
Seriously man don't complain about tmc it just looks bad, get tmc yourself if another player wants to tmc duel you and make sure his isn't modified, plain simple :D

[korialstraz]

The Diablo items are Blizzard`s property. Do you honestly think Blizzard would let a bunch of idiots make profit on their property without getting a share? Barbie doll company sued Aqua for using ''barbie'' name in their song. Wake up sir.

What you said about TMC. The game has a problem sir. When I duel nvn at 125fcr bp with no tmc I fall asleep sir. It's too deleted! slow :D. Me and my friends like Matrony always use tmc when we duel it's a must, otherwise it's just plain retarded.
I don't care if it messes up the fhr bps or what gear we ware, we both ware tmc proof gear like 3pnb 100life 2os circlets etc and the pvp is much more interesting then what battle.net gives.

The only people I met who complained about tmc use was those who were tmcing and failed at it badly and instead of saying '' I cant go that fast sorry'' they said '' I play legit sorry fag hacker''. It's always like that with you people. It's always my fault, DrinkNDrIve's fault, Ben's fault, Rob's fault, hibria's fault that you people cant play that fast.

I met so many people who did nvn and all they could do was max goelm mastery and nl you for goelm glitch. I mean you fall for it once then you tele around them and aim from a distance and make it 5-1 your win. They gona ***** about you l8zing but thats bullcrap. Diablo non professional players tend to rely on gear and game glitches to win and when they lose to real duelers who don't fall for their crap, they find 1000 excuses to justify it and I don't think any of you should waste their time with such idiots.
Seriously man don't complain about tmc it just looks bad, get tmc yourself if another player wants to tmc duel you and make sure his isn't modified, plain simple :D

Actually no I don't think so, just like they ban accounts on WoW for farming stuff to sell online. Aslo you can't sue someone for using a word like barbie AFAIK...

A bad excuse for needing hacks in duels... that it's too slow? In some cases it comes down to just a few frames, and if you make a misstake you are going to pay for it. Don't tell me that is too slow. Also using hacks doens't give a cutting edge in PvP, it gives an infair edge over those who want to play the game without hacks. In other words legit players.

I would complain about someone using TMC... why? You can use whatever items you want and still reach max fcr and fhr etc. AFAIK you could be a nec with the 200 fcr bp of a sorc am I correct? If so that isn't a fair, it's lame. One thing that's most certain is ANY elemental char would INSTANTLY become useless in duels. Why? People would have some much stack, max res and absorb you might as well swing at 'em with a wand for all the good that would do you.

I find that TMC users don't have the skill to duel without hacks, and as such would whine the most of all duelers when beat. And unproffesional D2 players rely on glitchs, that's ok. But don't tell me they rely on gear AND glitches 'cause this game IS about gear, not hacks. And others using hacks does not justify you using it. It's like stealing a char just 'cause so many other people do it, why shouldn't I?

Get your head out of your *** and start thinking straight, 'cause all you seem to try is justify the use of hacks by calling anyone who call you out on being a hack user as a whining kid who can't win for **** and rely on glitch to win. Also besides the use of hacks, those who use them also use the most BM tactics. Slow, revive, game glitches, pots etc. And ofc the normal chicken, auto pot, gmod. They also throw around rands to anyone not on their friend list because a BM hack using kid beat them. How pathetic.

[KoProvoke]

``you could be a nec with the 200 fcr bp``

Thats not correct you cant get 200fc on a necro waring nigma. Kid I told you I don`t encourage hacks read the text I said the hacks are 4 idiots why can`t you understand.
200fcr sorce bp is acceptable altho it could be faster. 125fcr for necs is very slow. I said it was slow and you said it`s not slow. I say again that it is slow, your word against mine I guess.
And its not a few frames, instead of 2 tele per second I get 4 tele per second, thats more then 2x faster so 2x less frames.

I don`t say that I can`t play without TMC. I beat almost anyone in here on any char without tmc on ft5. All I`m saying is when I play with pro people, we use TMC. Thats all, not anything else to it, forget about it.

[KoProvoke]

You say that the game is all gear. Hmm. Ok.

I`ll give you an example to illuminate your mind.

A guy was playing a necro like me. He met me. He said he has alot of trouble vs chargers. Very hard trouble. He said he got pkd so many times etc. he thought it was the gear. He remade his necro max block 75% and still lost to chargers. Then he heard that dr was good so he got dungos, fcr circlet with 2x ber, or ever wared SS and tried to get 125fcr with 50dr and max block. He was still losing to chargers.
He came to me said, ''ko, I got max block, 50% dr, and I lose to chargers badly help me understand why''

I said ok. I took a pure charger, 20k charge damage and told him:

''remove your stormshield''

He was like, but how will I duel with no shield, it`s madness I can't win like that. I told him: '' it's the shield that's making you lose so you need to remove it to learn how to duel''

He dropped his shield on the ground and we started to duel. I teached him how to duel and after 3 hours he was able to beat me with no shield on. Then he realized what his mistake was and I was happy because I turned a newb into a real pvper that day.
He always used a 11% block chance necro with 18% dr and never lost to a charger again ever since.

[korialstraz]

Kid I told you I don`t encourage hacks read the text I said the hacks are 4 idiots why can`t you understand.

I know you're banned, but if you read this then stop contradicting yourself. You admit to using hacks and tell me to start using it if others do, then you say that you don't encourage the use of hacks?

That was all.

[KillaMike]

pvp = for people who like to annoy

those who like to annoy like challange so they get lvl 80 vs 15

then they get bored and looking for better equep

they aint challange for long and they getting bored so they back to mf

while they mf they got owned by idiot pvp

then they get back they char and they owned and back to square 1

[korialstraz]

pvp = for people who like to annoy

those who like to annoy like challange so they get lvl 80 vs 15

then they get bored and looking for better equep

they aint challange for long and they getting bored so they back to mf

while they mf they got owned by idiot pvp

then they get back they char and they owned and back to square 1

That is so not true, at least not from my expirience. PvP is a lot of fun for both players when both agree to duel. The people who lowhost are a minority, and I wouldn't even call them duellers. Griefers or people who don't have the items/skill it takes to duel vs same lvled characters.

[KillaMike]

That is so not true, at least not from my expirience. PvP is a lot of fun for both players when both agree to duel. The people who lowhost are a minority, and I wouldn't even call them duellers. Griefers or people who don't have the items/skill it takes to duel vs same lvled characters.

oh well, i always duel vs higher lvls till i hit something like lvl 90 + and now i am as they call "rich busted" ( wrong spelling, no swearing ) that is bored and kicks a@@@ so now i am playing with lvl 81 bowie still kicking butt but they scream soooo hard, so sometimes i admit i am going and ruining others ppl game :O

[sbn]

First off, Diablo series was never meant to be a PvP game, it only had a limited PvP element added. If you want to play a Player vs. Player game, then don't waste your time on a RPG game.

Second, this game IS item dependent. It centers around items, and if you don't believe me, well just take a looksy around where a Blizzard rep even stated so in referring to D3. Problem with an item dependent game is that PvP then becomes extremely inaccessible to casual gamers. The game does not test ability and skill. If you want to test your skills out on an even playing field, then play games that are truly PvP like any number of FPS. Go buy Call of Duty 4.

Just remember, when my home town professional Football team goes to play a game, it is against other pro teams, NOT some little league kids. Same goes for any wrestling or boxing, they are matched to the closest weight for a reason.

The only way you could EVER have a true PvP in Diablo would be where you enter the game and both you and the opponent are forced to use the same exact items.

[KoProvoke]

First off, Diablo series was never meant to be a PvP game, it only had a limited PvP element added. If you want to play a Player vs. Player game, then don't waste your time on a RPG game.

Second, this game IS item dependent. It centers around items, and if you don't believe me, well just take a looksy around where a Blizzard rep even stated so in referring to D3. Problem with an item dependent game is that PvP then becomes extremely inaccessible to casual gamers. The game does not test ability and skill. If you want to test your skills out on an even playing field, then play games that are truly PvP like any number of FPS. Go buy Call of Duty 4.

Just remember, when my home town professional Football team goes to play a game, it is against other pro teams, NOT some little league kids. Same goes for any wrestling or boxing, they are matched to the closest weight for a reason.

The only way you could EVER have a true PvP in Diablo would be where you enter the game and both you and the opponent are forced to use the same exact items.

In your last paragraph you are talking about pvp equivalence not pvp fairness. A druid with state of the art gear vs a hammerdin with state of the art gear is pvp fair, doesn't have to be the same.

You say that the game is all gear. Hmm. Ok.

I`ll tell you a story:

A guy was playing a necro like me. He met me. He said he has alot of trouble vs chargers. Very hard trouble. He said he got pkd so many times etc. he thought it was the gear. He remade his necro max block 75% and still lost to chargers. Then he heard that dr was good so he got dungos, fcr circlet with 2x ber, or ever wared SS and tried to get 125fcr with 50dr and max block. He was still losing to chargers.
He came to me said, ''ko, I got max block, 50% dr, and I lose to chargers badly help me understand why''

I said ok. I took a pure charger, 20k charge damage and told him:

''remove your stormshield''

He was like, but how will I duel with no shield, it`s madness I can't win like that. I told him: '' it's the shield that's making you lose so you need to remove it to learn how to duel''

He dropped his shield on the ground and we started to duel. I teached him how to duel and after 3 hours he was able to beat me with no shield on. Then he realized what his mistake was and I was happy because I turned a newb into a real pvper that day.
He always used a 11% block chance necro with 18% dr and never lost to a charger again ever since.

[Sass]

Yes yes we all heard about the thing where your friend removes his shield vs chargers (no clue why you would).

Although that was a moderately humorous use of 10 minutes of my time, it's not only unlikely to be true, but has nothing to do with D3.



What would be relevant is to discuss things like how skills would work (leap ww = the new bvc for instance).

You vouching TMC for several posts is not d3 discussion. We don't even know if there will BE a tmc for d3, and I certainly hope not. It doesn't give you a "fast paced" duel, it is just a cheap way to get a random kill.

[Kiroptus]

Diablo's PVP isnt about gear or about skill. Its about... nothing really.

Whats the point of having max fire resist when a fire sorc can still kill you instantly. Or having, in your case presented, a stormshield necro when a charger can do stupidly high damage and instakill the necro anyway. A necro vs an amazon duel is a pathetic thing to watch as both will keep running from each other spamming their homming spells, guided arrow and bone spirit. A necro gets called cheap for using decrepfy on a WW barb or Pally chargers. A druid without enigma is stuck on a boneprison and is mauled to death by bonespirits without chance of fighting back. A trap asn can stun lock someone with trap+ MB but then comes someone with max absorb and your traps HEAL the target instead, a hammerdin is an impossible fight for barbs or anyone that has to get near, an adding insult to the injury of all this we still have enigma to mess things even more...



The examples of Diablo2's awful PVP are countless. In the end, Diablo2's PVP is this: A mess without purpose other than sometimes getting a few laughs with friends, but any attempt to call yourself or anyone a "professional dueler" in such a broken PVP game is just pathetic.

The farther that Diablo3 can distance itself from D2's PVP, the better. I remember Blizzard asking for game designers that understand the concept of DOTA to the game, which can be an interesting twist to Diablo's PVP, a clash of two sides with creeps on clashing each other, which makes sense to have a bit of PVM built-in the PVP itself as the Diablo was always a PVM game to begin with. Something like ENFOS TEAM SURVIVAL custom map on Warcraft 3 could be pretty cool too.

Whatever they are planning for Diablo3 it just has to stay far away from the broken mess that was Diablo2's PVP. It was fun for a while but after you played more of it, you could see how awfully bad designed the PVP was.

[Sass]

With max res, there isn't any char that's going to be one shot by a sorc O.o

SS has way more block, and I doubt a nec would be so easily one hit killed.

ZvN is kinda...well I can't say much, but i do know that spear is faster in that >>

Decreping a barb is the last thing the nec wants.

A druid w/o enigma is likely a shifter, and knows full and well how to counter a nec.

Even a fully sorbed trapper can kill (switch to fire, and I doubt you'd sorb both for just one person).

Hammerdin's aren't that impossible for a barb, or any melee. If you know what you're doing, Whirling properly will kill. Stun is required.

Enigma made this game better IMO.


*Just a few positive views on this supposedly broken system that still doesn't belong in this forum.*


Some builds have a very clear advantage over others, but almost no match up is impossible (exception being any melee vs a smiter, but that is the only thing).

What does come into play and leads to imbalance is the advent of sorb. Without it, many builds would be a walk in the park (hammerdins and smiters).



We don't know d3's system, but we can say how we think some builds could work in that system. We should really stray away from d2 talk >>

[Kiroptus]

Defend D2's PVP all you want, it is a pathetic excuse for a PVP game. It can surely create big guides and beautiful theory and mathcraft that are even amusing to read but in practice, its just a broken fight that doesnt last more than a matter of seconds and usually ends with a insta-kill move from either side or an impossible fight.

And Enigma broke the game, and made PVP an even more ridicule sight. Surely nothing like that will ever happen in D3.

[KoProvoke]

Diablo's PVP isnt about gear or about skill. Its about... nothing really.

Whats the point of having max fire resist when a fire sorc can still kill you instantly. Or having, in your case presented, a stormshield necro when a charger can do stupidly high damage and instakill the necro anyway. A necro vs an amazon duel is a pathetic thing to watch as both will keep running from each other spamming their homming spells, guided arrow and bone spirit. A necro gets called cheap for using decrepfy on a WW barb or Pally chargers. A druid without enigma is stuck on a boneprison and is mauled to death by bonespirits without chance of fighting back. A trap asn can stun lock someone with trap+ MB but then comes someone with max absorb and your traps HEAL the target instead, a hammerdin is an impossible fight for barbs or anyone that has to get near, an adding insult to the injury of all this we still have enigma to mess things even more...



The examples of Diablo2's awful PVP are countless. In the end, Diablo2's PVP is this: A mess without purpose other than sometimes getting a few laughs with friends, but any attempt to call yourself or anyone a "professional dueler" in such a broken PVP game is just pathetic.

The farther that Diablo3 can distance itself from D2's PVP, the better. I remember Blizzard asking for game designers that understand the concept of DOTA to the game, which can be an interesting twist to Diablo's PVP, a clash of two sides with creeps on clashing each other, which makes sense to have a bit of PVM built-in the PVP itself as the Diablo was always a PVM game to begin with. Something like ENFOS TEAM SURVIVAL custom map on Warcraft 3 could be pretty cool too.

Whatever they are planning for Diablo3 it just has to stay far away from the broken mess that was Diablo2's PVP. It was fun for a while but after you played more of it, you could see how awfully bad designed the PVP was.

100% true, learn from this guy hes pro gamer.

[Sass]

I've yet to see match ups relying on one hit kills. Nobody can one hit kill another (maybe charger vs zon or something, but they're designed for it. With any block, the zon's going to kill you.) Nor have I met a match that's utterly impossible (except Zeal vs smiters, but they have smite too >>)

While not 100% balanced, I hardly call it a broken mess. Every build has counters to every other build.

Duels end in seconds, but that's just the way it is when actions like moving / attacking takes only a slit second.


And what does everyone have against enigma? It basically made the windy a viable buid, necs got more interesting, same with sins. It really powered barbs, but paladins never really even needed it sometimes, though it helps a ton. Zealers? Not vs casters, but tele zeal came along and made it better.

Or, how about we just revert back to GA piercing 126262308242 times, all critical?



We'll have to wait to see d3's system, but bashing D2 and vouching hacks won't help, especially in this forum.

EDIT: 100% true, learn from this guy hes pro gamer.Hardly any was correct though O.o

E2: well, the enigma thing is his opinion and can't be wrong, but it doesn't have to be correct.

[Kiroptus]

Bill Roper wanted to have a certain type of PVP in Hellgate London that resembled Enfos Team Survival in Hellgate. Unfortunately it never saw the light of the day.

For those who dont know this how it is: Both teams, of 4 or 5 people are in a diferent place, diferent instance, fighting endless waves of monsters that get stronger and stronger, until to a point it becomes unbereable, the first team to die loses (duh).


BUT there is twist. For each killed monsters you would gain points. And you have a terminal to spend those points (in D3's case could be a tome in pedestral, as it fits the theme) where upon activation, you can do certain bad things to the other team, like stunning for a long time a selected enemy player, summon stronger monster nearby, giving the other team's monster high move speed, curse the enemy team with a selected curse, etc....

It was a great concept, too bad it never was done in hellgate london. It fits perfectly IMO Diablo, as it mixed PVM with PVP, so it would be cool. I dont know if Bill Roper and his team ever left this idea on Blizzard but it would certainly be interesting to see how it would turn out.



Or, how about we just revert back to GA piercing 126262308242 times, all critical?

I was a pretty vocal advocate of nerfing it. Along with a lot of people as well. Blizzard's response was "Diablo is balanced for PVM". And so it stayed like that for a long time.

Blizzard fixed but introduced enigma which turned PVP into a teleporting, twiching-click mess.


A martial arts asn have no chance against a barb for example (no they dont have any, dont bother theorycrafting). And yes, Hammerdins are an impossible fight for anyone melee, sometimes under a blue moon you might not be hit by it, but with the pally's teleporting and hammerspam its already pretty much impossible as one hammer is a OHK even for high hp barbs. Sorcs have lots of instakill moves like Blizzard and Fireball spam (dont bother getting max resist, you die either way), a zon who locked on you with guided arrow is pretty much death and if you have 75% block you get perma-blocking, etc... We could keep here talking about how broken the PVP was and you can say all the beautiful and intricates theories and solutions to each build and it could sound really professional and logical but thats just the theory, in pratice its just a teleporting mess of instakill moves running rampant.

[Sass]

Bill Roper wanted to have a certain type of PVP in Hellgate London that resembled Enfos Team Survival in Hellgate. Unfortunately it never saw the light of the day.

For those who dont know this how it is: Both teams, of 4 or 5 people are in a diferent place, diferent instance, fighting endless waves of monsters that get stronger and stronger, until to a point it becomes unbereable, the first team to die loses (duh).


BUT there is twist. For each killed monsters you would gain points. And you have a terminal to spend those points (in D3's case could be a tome in pedestral, as it fits the theme) where upon activation, you can do certain bad things to the other team, like stunning for a long time a selected enemy player, summon stronger monster nearby, giving the other team's monster high move speed, curse the enemy team with a selected curse, etc....

It was a great concept, too bad it never was done in hellgate london. It fits perfectly IMO Diablo, as it mixed PVM with PVP, so it would be cool. I dont know if Bill Roper and his team ever left this idea on Blizzard but it would certainly be interesting to see how it would turn out.This would be interesting, but is more like a pvm duel than a pvp. Builds used would be vastly different (pvm builds vs a pvp oriented). Fun, but hardly a duel.

A martial arts asn have no chance against a barb for example (no they dont have any, dont bother theorycrafting).Hi, have you met Max yet? His kicker can kill barbs. But, you probably haven't seen it happen, and is understandable that you'd come to that conclusion. Moreover, any of the "D2 melee", even smite, is at a vast disadvantage to WW from any source. However, it is not impossible.

And yes, Hammerdins are an impossible fight for anyone melee, sometimes under a blue moon you might not be hit by it, but with the pally's teleporting and hammerspam its already pretty much impossible as one hammer is a OHK even for high hp barbs.If you've been OHK by a hammerdin, remake. Sounds harsh, but really, remake. They have many blind spots and one is right next to the hdin (a range 1 weapon can hit him and not be hit by hammers). you have to know what to do and not know not to stand there while the hammerdin is casting (or stay in one spot for too long for that matter).

Sorcs have lots of instakill moves like Blizzard and Fireball spam (dont bother getting max resist, you die either way), a zon who locked on you with guided arrow is pretty much death and if you have 75% block you get perma-blocking, etc... Blizz hurts, but isn't OHK. Even FB won't OHK (spam isn't one hit, neither should it kill you if you know how to not stand and take it). Arrows can be redirected with proper moving and block-lock doesn't happen anymore (not like it was).


We could keep here talking about how broken the PVP was and you can say all the beautiful and intricates theories and solutions to each build and it could sound really professional and logical but thats just the theory, in pratice its just a teleporting mess of instakill moves running rampant.We could, and you could easily say that everyone spams without knowing how to play. This is true in a pub environment, but hardly happens in anything remotely good. In those duels, techniques like WSG, walking, moving south and other things are not just some theorycraft found in a guide; it is actually used and used well.

Nobody in the game has a guaranteed OHK. If you are unprepared for it, you might be OHK, but you'd have to be missing a lot of gear, need a remake and need to know how to duel to change that.

BTW, hammers take ~2-4 hits to kill barbs (depends on his life, and the hammer's dmg). I know my sins takes 3-4 to kill. Hardly 1-hit.

[korialstraz]

Did you ever PvP at all Kiroptus? Max res and abs will negate any and all elemental damage done to you. Throw some integer absorb in for good measure (read healing). So yes it works.

Zon who locks on with guided? No problem, back away and break the lock, move back in for attack. My sorc beats 90+% zons I've met so far using max block and 43% dr.

Only in very rare occasions am I one hit killed, and that's by hammerdins with only max damage (+skills) gear on who get his fcr and whatnot from tmc.

[Kiroptus]

I know about absorb, which is also a ridiculous broken mechanic. So you made the enemy attacks HEAL you now. Is that balanced? Of course not. Plus its forbiden on most duels.

Hi, have you met Max yet? His kicker can kill barbs. But, you probably haven't seen it happen, and is understandable that you'd come to that conclusion. Moreover, any of the "D2 melee", even smite, is at a vast disadvantage to WW from any source. However, it is not impossible.

Im talking about attacks that need charges up like Tiger Strike and the others, which are the conceptual idea of the Martial Art asn. Not about kickers. Kickers are just an weaker version of the smitter, whatever its just badly designed that WW for its nature of moving and hitting the enemy can be so unstopabble against any melee class. Is it possible that a non-barb melee character can kill a WW barb? Yes, but its WAY more possible for the other way around (and dont try to deny) and thats is simply that: Bad design.


f you've been OHK by a hammerdin, remake. Sounds harsh, but really, remake. They have many blind spots and one is right next to the hdin (a range 1 weapon can hit him and not be hit by hammers). you have to know what to do and not know not to stand there while the hammerdin is casting (or stay in one spot for too long for that matter).

Oh yes, the Hdin will stay still so I can hit him from southwest where his hammer doesnt hit me (everyone knows about this). No, he teleports around spamming on every direction the hammers, if you are hit by one, you die, its that simple as nothing can really reduce magic damage and hammer's damage is just obscene. It might not instakill you but the damage is huge enough to send you into recovery animation, unless you have lots of FHR you will probably be hit by the next spinning hammer and you are dead anyway.



We could, and you could easily say that everyone spams without knowing how to play. This is true in a pub environment, but hardly happens in anything remotely good. In those duels, techniques like WSG, walking, moving south and other things are not just some theorycraft found in a guide; it is actually used and used well.

Nobody in the game has a guaranteed OHK. If you are unprepared for it, you might be OHK, but you'd have to be missing a lot of gear, need a remake and need to know how to duel to change that.

If you are slightly unprepared there are lots of OHK moves.

*sigh* Please dont remind me of "pub enviroment" as it reminds me of the "Professional Duelers". Which is just as a bad sight as pubs anyway, the "tatics" are nothing impressive at all, its all about heavily geared characters with charms stucked in every orifice possible doing the same things that everyone does in pubs. Seriously there is nothing intelligently impressive in D2's PVP and it baffles me that people can think that there is a "professional" level to it. Again, Blizzard themselves never even intended to balance PVP and the answer is just there with how long it took to remove GA piercing and the introduction of Enigma, you can love D2's PVP all you want but know that no thought, balance or design was put to it. D2 was always a PVM game in mind.

[korialstraz]

I know about absorb, which is also a ridiculous broken mechanic. So you made the enemy attacks HEAL you now. Is that balanced? Of course not. Plus its forbiden on most duels.

But wait... what? Didn't you just say how sorcs OHKO everyone? O_O

I never said it was balanced, but that's why general guidelines was put in place to make it more balanced. Stacked res and 1 piece of absorb. Makes no elemental caster able to 1 hit others while still not canceling out the casters damage completely. Also why did you only comment on the broken mechanic hmm? Don't want to see the things that actually work? Oh nevermind, let's dismiss it as theorycrafting since it clearly doesn't work anyway :fire:

[Sass]

Im talking about attacks that need charges up like Tiger Strike and the others, which are the conceptual idea of the Martial Art asn. Not about kickers. Kickers are just an weaker version of the smitter, whatever its just badly designed that WW for its nature of moving and hitting the enemy can be so unstopabble against any melee class. Is it possible that a non-barb melee character can kill a WW barb? Yes, but its WAY more possible for the other way around (and dont try to deny) and thats is simply that: Bad design.I'm not denying that WW > conventional melee. In fact, I said that very thing. You however stated that it was impossible, I contradicted that and now you're saying it too :)

Charge-ups are useless without the finish anyway, so IDK why you think kicker's aren't viable. Also, I'm sure you'd be surprised at the AR and DMG that DClaw can hit. ;)

Oh yes, the Hdin will stay still so I can hit him from southwest where his hammer doesnt hit me (everyone knows about this). No, he teleports around spamming on every direction the hammers, if you are hit by one, you die, its that simple as nothing can really reduce magic damage and hammer's damage is just obscene. It might not instakill you but the damage is huge enough to send you into recovery animation, unless you have lots of FHR you will probably be hit by the next spinning hammer and you are dead anyway.South west? I use directly south and a very short whirl tyvm. :)

If you're unfortunate enough to get hit by random spam, then not only am I sorry, but I'm still very much alive with more than half my life left. The dmg is obscene, and the only res is kinda bad. However, i mostly play sins and think mostly from their point-of-view. That being said, I block many hammers and don't take the dmg. if and when I am hit, it's not one hit kill, not even 2. 48fhr > the hammers, and many use 86.

If you are slightly unprepared there are lots of OHK moves.Right. If you forget to put on res, FoH and blizz will eat you up. Are they always OHK? Not by a long shot. They hurt, yes, but aren't going to OHK and make things OP.

*sigh* Please dont remind me of "pub enviroment" as it reminds me of the "Professional Duelers". Which is just as a bad sight as pubs anyway, the "tatics" are nothing impressive at all, its all about heavily geared characters with charms stucked in every orifice possible doing the same things that everyone does in pubs.I'll stop you right here real quickly. Though rare, I have seen what good players can do. Also, I've seen what pubs can do, and good duelers are light years ahead. Pubs will sorb, spam, insult and NK/jump. Good people don't need to / prefer not to. pubs =/= good.

Seriously there is nothing intelligently impressive in D2's PVP and it baffles me that people can think that there is a "professional" level to it. Again, Blizzard themselves never even intended to balance PVP and the answer is just there with how long it took to remove GA piercing and the introduction of Enigma, you can love D2's PVP all you want but know that no thought, balance or design was put to it. D2 was always a PVM game in mind.GA peirce has been out for a bit longer than in hasn't it? And a pvm game with a hostility button makes perfect sense ofc.

In terms of intelligence: I have a question. Have you ever played a char with more then 5 hot keys, not including the buff ones like BO? If you have, then that right there takes more intelligence than some people who duel on d2 (the kind of which it seems you are basing your assumptions). if you intend to chain-lock, name lock or do anything other than spam, it requires skill and intelligence.

You not being impressed with not reduce the skill needed to play effectively.

EDIT:

But wait... what? Didn't you just say how sorcs OHKO everyone? O_Oofc not. sorb is a godly unbroken thing that is utterly un counterable. It makes you heal from the apparent -100 res too.

I never said it was balanced, but that's why general guidelines was put in place to make it more balanced. Stacked res and 1 piece of absorb. Makes no elemental caster able to 1 hit others while still not canceling out the casters damage completely. Also why did you only comment on the broken mechanic hmm? Don't want to see the things that actually work? Oh nevermind, let's dismiss it as theorycrafting since it clearly doesn't work anywayStop being broken :)

pfft...theorycrafter. How dare you bring balance to things?

[Bladewind]

Hah my hybrid trap/kicker alone takes 10 plus hotkeys and I don't even have CTA yet. :crazyeyes:

[Sass]

Hah my hybrid trap/kicker alone takes 10 plus hotkeys and I don't even have CTA yet. :crazyeyes:Kiroptus is right. Obv doesn't take any skill to use chars.




Serious note, i wish we had more than 16 to use ><

[korialstraz]

EDIT:

ofc not. sorb is a godly unbroken thing that is utterly un counterable. It makes you heal from the apparent -100 res too.

I always knew something was wrong here!!! :O

Stop being broken :)

pfft...theorycrafter. How dare you bring balance to things?

Ok I won't be broken anymore o_o

Huh? I thought I didn't... or.. errrhm... ;)

[Kiroptus]

GA peirce has been out for a bit longer than in hasn't it? And a pvm game with a hostility button makes perfect sense ofc.

Yes GA has been in for a lot longer than you can imagine and Blizzard's disdain for how it was breaking PVP just showed how much they cared about it. And Diablo is a PVM game, those are Blizzard's words, not mine. The hostility button is just a messy design decision. So much that it isnt being bought to D3.

In terms of intelligence: I have a question. Have you ever played a char with more then 5 hot keys, not including the buff ones like BO? If you have, then that right there takes more intelligence than some people who duel on d2 (the kind of which it seems you are basing your assumptions). if you intend to chain-lock, name lock or do anything other than spam, it requires skill and intelligence.

You not being impressed with not reduce the skill needed to play effectively.


I played with many characters of diferent builds, trap ASN being my favourite tho when people used to absorb attacks it was too annoying but there were many trick ups to this character sleeve like spamming MB and switching traps from lighting to fire to avoid it and also reallying on the strong shadow summon to do some serious damage. Plus there was an weird glitch that made a lv 42 skill shadow summon immune to elemental damage which was quite amusing against sorceress (dont know if they fixed it).

Until enigma came and turned the game into a twiching-teleporting mess.

I have been to many, many duels, played against good clans and with my friends and all. But never once I thought it was an intelligent battle on any level, the layers and intrications of the battles were quite low and uninteresting, if you were impressed with D2's PVP well...


Hah my hybrid trap/kicker alone takes 10 plus hotkeys and I don't even have CTA yet.

CTA wouldnt add hotkeys, as you would just buff yourself and forget about it anyway. Plus I did play with ASN/Martial arts, using tiger strike, cobra strike, dragon flight, dragon talon, lighting sentry, mindblast, shadow master, switching between fade/BOS and I might even be forgeting something here. Anyway it was a lot of work but not that rewarding as simplier characters with much less hotkeys could still kill you easily. But I give you that it was a lot of fun.

[Sass]

Even the trapper is capable of getting around sorb, but this mustn't take intelligence ofc. Nor would being able to keep up with a "twitchy, teleporting mess". Again, the enigma is your opinion that you are entitled to, but saying that it is game-breaking and ruined pvp is not accurate. It ruined your definition, and opened up more possibilities. To each his own, but the only thing broken was your view on d2. There are some 09 servers out you know ;)

If I didn't like d2's pvp, then I wouldn't play it. What I do like is that pvp requires thought and reflexes to play. Well, I take that back. It takes little skill / thought to have so little res that sorcs OHK, so little ability and a bad enough build that hammers OHK. But those that know what their doing tend to have fun. Hell, me and my friend even have fun on Zealers, and that takes NO skill XD.

Be uninterested and nonchalant all you'd like. It doesn't affect how much skill is required to duel well.

Fairly recently, I got into GvG for instance. It requires alot of thinking, and is often like chess. O.o At first I didn't think so, but then I used some of the tactics and it worked. it was fun for me.



Why are you so adamant about the system being broken when not everyone is bad enough to be OHK? Many of the apparent disadvantages aren't even there when skill is introduced.

And do I need to bring up why we're talking about d2 in d3 discussion?

[korialstraz]

And do I need to bring up why we're talking about d2 in d3 discussion?

I think you did once or twice :whistling:


Why this wasn't moved to D2 from the first post is a mystery to me :coffee:

[Kiroptus]

1.10 was awesome, it was a blessing to the game and enigma was great for my PVM Necro and my PVM trap asn. But I just lost any interest to PVP and would never return to 09 with all those annoying zons and their rigged GA. And dont try to take me as someone who doesnt know anything about PVP, I did PVP a lot and I know the merits and faults of it, my choice of character was always the ASN which was the most complex and versatile class in PVP. I will give you that it requires some skill to play ASN which is why its my favourite PVP character but most of the other characters consist of one mobility skill and one or two attack moves that are spammed.

Anyway whatever, you can love D2's PVP all you want but what I mean is, by logic, D3's wont be like it. The development team which made D2 was full of disagreements with Blizzard so much that they got in trouble with Vivendi and left Blizzard to try other stuff that btw, failed very hard. Certainly players will be able to engage in a duel. Will it the "matter of seconds" battle that is D2? I hope not, D3 must create more tactical manuevers on the PVP system, more skills being needed to use and of course, teleport being limited only to the sorceress so we dont have barbarians and witch doctors teleporting around (plus with the barbarian having a diferent system than mana, its safe to say that teleport will certainly be limited to wiz-only, rightfully once again).

The balanced mentality behind D3 certainly implies that we might have a much more deep PVP system thant D2 ever hoped to be, there might be modes like dueling, dota-style (as that JOB offering asked for knowledge in Dota for project Hydra, which was D3) or enfos-style.

Hostility was in, and PK was in, because Bill Roper said that it was interesting to make the overall enviroment more hostile and evil, even by its own players and that it would fit the diablo universe. Which was quite right until he didnt think about how many kids were running around rampant for the sole purpose of ruining other people's game in a game where killing monsters is the center of it. No wonder his debut game died to because of his design decisions.

Whatever comes in D3 I am certainly curious on how they will handle it, too bad so few informations were released so far.

[korialstraz]

Anyway whatever, you can love D2's PVP all you want but what I mean is, by logic, D3's wont be like it.

I agree ofc, and to anyone that should be obvious. But saying that D2 PvP don't require any skill at all is just wrong imho ;)

[Sass]

1.10 was awesome, it was a blessing to the game and enigma was great for my PVM Necro and my PVM trap asn. But I just lost any interest to PVP and would never return to 09 with all those annoying zons and their rigged GA. And dont try to take me as someone who doesnt know anything about PVP, I did PVP a lot and I know the merits and faults of it, my choice of character was always the ASN which was the most complex and versatile class in PVP. I will give you that it requires some skill to play ASN which is why its my favourite PVP character but most of the other characters consist of one mobility skill and one or two attack moves that are spammed.Sins have always been my forte, and if you play any sin at all, you of all should know that hammers do not OHK. ;) Not even the Sin is safe from your logic. Trappers can spam traps and MB 24/7. In fact, not many like them because of this. Similar with hybrids, Ghost and even kickers (spam MB + main attack). Casters are so easy to call spammers, but really, how else are they going to act? Do they use their 1 mobility and be tele-spammers / "l8z"er's? The logic can't work only one way.

Anyway whatever, you can love D2's PVP all you want but what I mean is, by logic, D3's wont be like it. The development team which made D2 was full of disagreements with Blizzard so much that they got in trouble with Vivendi and left Blizzard to try other stuff that btw, failed very hard. Certainly players will be able to engage in a duel. Will it the "matter of seconds" battle that is D2? I hope not, D3 must create more tactical manuevers on the PVP system, more skills being needed to use and of course, teleport being limited only to the sorceress so we dont have barbarians and witch doctors teleporting around (plus with the barbarian having a diferent system than mana, its safe to say that teleport will certainly be limited to wiz-only, rightfully once again).The original moved to make HGL, which had theat one system you liked. But now they fail? O.o

At any rate, the speed of d3 can easily be kept out of the split seconds worth of timing by setting the break points that way. In D2, the sorc was capable of casting very fast (a small handful of frames on a 25 frame / second system.) By increasing casting time, you slow speed. Also, no tactical maneuvers can even exist since it's all just theory craft remember? No application of skill or intelligence because it'd break the system. Remember?

I haven't played Dota or the enfros, but it sounds like a PvM battle to show how much of a good pvper you are. That doesn't really work..at all.

Hostility was in, and PK was in, because Bill Roper said that it was interesting to make the overall environment more hostile and evil, even by its own players and that it would fit the diablo universe. Which was quite right until he didnt think about how many kids were running around rampant for the sole purpose of ruining other people's game in a game where killing monsters is the center of it. No wonder his debut game died to because of his design decisions.Pking was only a bother due to the hacks involved. And why would you stay in a game where a high level just hostiled you after revealing your position? PKing is lame, but not unavoidable. Besides, they can just be beaten with your own char if you can. S/e, grab a new char, not give your location, etc.

I agree ofc, and to anyone that should be obvious. But saying that D2 PvP don't require any skill at all is just wrong imho+5

[Kiroptus]

The original moved to make HGL, which had theat one system you liked. But now they fail? O.o

That system was never made, never got out of the paper. And yes, HGL was a huge failure, it closed it doors one year after it was released, if you played it and if you have seen the mechanics of the game you would see how horribly broken the game was.

Also, no tactical maneuvers can even exist since it's all just theory craft remember? No application of skill or intelligence because it'd break the system. Remember?

Thats a D2 flaw, they aiming to fix D2's flaws in D3, remember? :)

OHK moves arent the basis of the PVM monsters now with the new orb system, enemies (normal) can do little-medium damage that keeps the fight going and not to have it instanlly ended, and orbs will require strategy/mobility/location to pick up. So if the same mentality goes to PVP we might have a more tactical PVP than the blood moor mess we used to get. With players doing little damage to each other which takes more tactic to react other than highly stacked gears built for not only counter but to ruin the character you are fighting against.

D2's PVP was fun at times but nothing to be taken seriously.

[Sass]

Thats a D2 flaw, they aiming to fix D2's flaws in D3, remember?That's no flaw O.o Tactics and maneuvering were in d2. It's something people always use and will be in D3 no matter what system they use.

OHK moves arent the basis of the PVM monsters now with the new orb system, enemies (normal) can do little-medium damage that keeps the fight going and not to have it instanlly ended, and orbs will require strategy/mobility/location to pick up. So if the same mentality goes to PVP we might have a more tactical PVP than the blood moor mess we used to get. With players doing little damage to each other which takes more tactic to react other than highly stacked gears built for not only counter but to ruin the character you are fighting against.I highly doubt that d2 was pvm balanced when Undead dolls went around OHKing, every so often a monster would be completely immune to your char, and the strongest pvm char has only one weakness and it's tucked in a tiny temple that not many even go in. Balanced? Really?

I like how they'll try and balance things from the start, but I can't fully believe d2 was a pvm game when that was less balanced than the pvp was.

And what about the orbs? How can that be a part of pvp? Or are you just meaning that we have to maneuver? People did that already, so that can't be new...IDK. Care to explain?

Players doing little damage won't require more tactic. If anything, suicidal attempts will be more common since you don't have the risk of dying for making a daring move. Also, how is doing a little amount really that much different than d2's form of stack / sorb? It was OP in how it could negate / heal, but both systems would do little dmg. Sorb ruined things, but it isn't everywhere, and isn't a game breaker in good GM.

D2's PVP was fun at times but nothing to be taken seriously.This i vouch over 9000.

[Kiroptus]

I highly doubt that d2 was pvm balanced when Undead dolls went around OHKing, every so often a monster would be completely immune to your char, and the strongest pvm char has only one weakness and it's tucked in a tiny temple that not many even go in. Balanced? Really?

Tell that to the original D2's team, they made Diablo a potion fest spam and TPs highly acessible so the only way to add challenge to PVM is to have insta-kill monsters. Which is why a brand healing system was crafted in D3 to avoid all that.

I like how they'll try and balance things from the start, but I can't fully believe d2 was a pvm game when that was less balanced than the pvp was.

Then you never went to the official forums when everyone was in an uproar about the GA pierce. It was the most common blue response there: "Diablo is balanced for PVM". And it wasnt just said once, pretty much it was said from most PVP complaints there, like people leeching off bonewalls. Took them a looongg time to care.

And what about the orbs? How can that be a part of pvp? Or are you just meaning that we have to maneuver? People did that already, so that can't be new...IDK. Care to explain?

It adds more tactic and stategy to the PVM horde battles. It was a system crafted to add more thought to the chaotic battles. And yes people did manuever in PVP, especially now with teleport... which just got ridiculous. But 99% of the PVP fights were fought in the blood moor, which was just a big arena. Probably in D3 there will be levels built specially for duels and who knows if somewhere in the level wont orbs randomly spawn? Its up to blizz to think how PVP will be handled on D3 and how they can expand it.

You can love D2's PVP but its not balanced. Just like PVM isnt. After all Diablo2 isnt a balanced game at all. D3 is aiming to be what D2's couldnt be so certainly many mechanics will be looked at. Will there be a chance to actually HEAL from players elemental attacks? I hope not, its way too much of an extreme. We will have to see how PVP will work out.

[Sass]

Tell that to the original D2's team, they made Diablo a potion fest spam and TPs highly acessible so the only way to add challenge to PVM is to have insta-kill monsters. Which is why a brand healing system was crafted in D3 to avoid all that.There were far more efficient ways to deal with that than have things immune / instant death. The new system may or may not be more balanced--we can only see when it's out--but D2 was far from pvm balanced, regardless of what claims Blizz made.

Then you never went to the official forums when everyone was in an uproar about the GA pierce. It was the most common blue response there: "Diablo is balanced for PVM". And it wasnt just said once, pretty much it was said from most PVP complaints there, like people leeching off bonewalls. Took them a looongg time to care.It was a good 6 years before I even knew you could play multiplayer ;) By then I had a lvl 99 and working on my 86. Neither were zons. I'd just play my sin until 99, then swapped back to my nec I had from classic. I'd heard about the GA pierce, and it was rampant in pvp. Balanced in pvm? Still no. :S

It adds more tactic and stategy to the PVM horde battles. It was a system crafted to add more thought to the chaotic battles. And yes people did manuever in PVP, especially now with teleport... which just got ridiculous. But 99% of the PVP fights were fought in the blood moor, which was just a big arena. Probably in D3 there will be levels built specially for duels and who knows if somewhere in the level wont orbs randomly spawn? Its up to blizz to think how PVP will be handled on D3 and how they can expand it.@ hordes: it seems to, but we'll still have to see how that'll work out for us. People maneuvered in pvp before enigma. Didn't necs run and synch?

Random orbs seems like having an arena in d2 with wells placed in side. That's an extremely broken system. Even if pvp in d3 is very different than d2, the mentality will be the same. People will spam, people will flee constantly while casting in the general direction of opponents, and people will jump. That isn't a d2 thing, it's a player thing. Maneuvering and tactics are in d2, and will be in d3, no matter what. No system will change either of these things.

You can love D2's PVP but its not balanced. Just like PVM isnt. After all Diablo2 isnt a balanced game at all. D3 is aiming to be what D2's couldnt be so certainly many mechanics will be looked at. Will there be a chance to actually HEAL from players elemental attacks? I hope not, its way too much of an extreme. We will have to see how PVP will work out.*sigh* more repetition...

It's fine if you don't like D2's pvp but guess what? Nobody cares. TBH, I find pvp boring if playing some spammer. You're always thinking of d2 is terms of being one shot killed, over sorbed and having people teleporting. The only OHK in the game is in pvm. Sorb, yes is ***, but is there for monsters doing massive damage. Teleport didn't break anything, but only made more builds even possible in the first place. Don't like it? Good for you, but that's completely irrelevant to the rest.

I wouldn't call d2 completely imbalanced. It is in some aspects, but not nearly all of them. Some advantages over another class don't even matter when you add in skills and tactics, but you fail to see that. IDK why, but you refuse to accept that it's far more balanced than you're making it seem.

[Ksa]

Ya someone said very well on page 2 or 3 i guess, that rpg game aren't meant for pvp and that if I want pvp then why not play a first person shooter. It's true in the present but not necessarily true in the future I mean rpgs still can become good pvp games.

Btw some people messaged me on koprovoke acct, don't do that anymore cause some 17k post random banned that one ( It kinda was my fault cause I talked about scamming jsp lol) so msg me on Ksa if you want to duel or talk or we.

It all comes from the ability of a player to control the other player's damage. Like when I duel a fire sorce I control his damage by sorbing fire or when I duel a hammerdin I control his damage by reviving monsters etc. It's kinda complicated.

[Sass]

Ya someone said very well on page 2 or 3 i guess, that rpg game aren't meant for pvp and that if I want pvp then why not play a first person shooter. It's true in the present but not necessarily true in the future I mean rpgs still can become good pvp games.

Btw some people messaged me on koprovoke acct, don't do that anymore cause some 17k post random banned that one ( It kinda was my fault cause I talked about scamming jsp lol) so msg me on Ksa if you want to duel or talk or we.

It all comes from the ability of a player to control the other player's damage. Like when I duel a fire sorce I control his damage by sorbing fire or when I duel a hammerdin I control his damage by reviving monsters etc. It's kinda complicated.First thing, when banned you shouldn't make a new acct, or it'll just get banned too.

As for the FPS comments...If I wanted to pvp, I'd play Diablo. FPS hasn't been my interest, but I love RPG's (Golden Sun, Diablo, Zelda series, D&D, etc etc). That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the pvp I play on Diablo.

"Controlling" damage via resists, block, etc is fine, but sorb is a broken system in Diablo. Fully negating dmg or healing from them ruins dueling far more than anything like Enigma could ever do.

[Ksa]

First thing, when banned you shouldn't make a new acct, or it'll just get banned too.

As for the FPS comments...If I wanted to pvp, I'd play Diablo. FPS hasn't been my interest, but I love RPG's (Golden Sun, Diablo, Zelda series, D&D, etc etc). That being said, I thoroughly enjoy the pvp I play on Diablo.

"Controlling" damage via resists, block, etc is fine, but sorb is a broken system in Diablo. Fully negating dmg or healing from them ruins dueling far more than anything like Enigma could ever do.

Ya your right except for the ban part. There is also a petition out there I forgot the site but the main idea is to involve black body radiation in diablo 3. I'll make a new topic about this because it's worthwhile lol.

[Sass]

Not so sure about radiation being implemented, or it's pvp relevance.

I am sure about the banning part and making a 2nd account is begging to be re-banned.

[KillaMike]

dont know about you saying "pvp on d2 nn for skills" when i gave away my items ( read euscl trading ) my hammerdin naked with 3.5 k ( something like that ) kick some arse from lvl 92 12k hammerdin. luck? no, just stupid skills used to dodge hammers, and yes, he killed me, like once in 10 goes :crazyeyes:

[Doppel]

Many people argue about this but as a professional gamer I can say that if Diablo2 battle.net was a pvp oriented environment then mods like TMC, or Maphack would have became patch material and after a few patches everyone would have access to the most advanced pvp improvements.
What in the world does maphack have to do with pvp?

Battle.net demonised the use of maphack as the ultimate evil while in fact such useful features should have long been patched.

No they shouldn't, its also useful to have bots run for you, doesn't mean ****.

It was the same with tmc features, basically anything that can make the game pvp oriented and ESPECIALLY PVP FAIR, meaning everyone has good gear,

Everyone isn't supposed to have good gear, thats the freaking game, not some lame Quake.

Such ''fair'' duels are like the 200/142 fber duels on d2pk which only reveal the player skill in the wins so such things do exist and are fun to play.

Chess is fun to play, its purely based on skill, so why not make the game into a TB game similar to chess?

Why? Because Diablo is a show off game. You show your friend your 141 shako and 1378 ap nigma and are so proud of yourself you can even get an orgasm once in a while. You spend hours getting gear, and probably lots of money too that blizzard cashes in with joy

Wait, what? Um, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

why make it pvp, pvm pays better. So we'll let the idiots mf for weeks then, when they see that we give them no chance to gear themselves up, they will buy our fake items for a real $ value.

What in the freaking hell are you talking about?

Many people contradict me and say that Blizzard wants to compensate dedicated players for their work and that's why good items drop...almost not at all.

What is there to contradict? LIES?

That is totally wrong.

Nope.

People who spend 2 months to go 99 should then be largely compensated by 100 stat points and 20 more skills to use.

Nope.

So it is not a ''compensation'' matter it is a $ matter, a matter where you buy items in stores to be good.

Nope.

Also some idiot who spends 1 month to mf hes compensated with a nigma 2x sojs and a few gc lifers when I can scam all that from jsp in 1 hour.

And i can break into your house, tie you up, *****slap your idiotic face, and steal you all of your hard-earned money. Whats your point?

How is that person compensated for his work? I clearly don't understand it.

Obviously.

So as a conclusion for people talking about pvp, there won't be any good pvp around and you probably won't be able to tele on your barbs until 2013 when a d3nigma will appear and people will spend money in stores etc.
So...it's hopeless, because of the item corruption system.

WORST CONCLUSION EVER!

Jeez, what a load of utter crap read this was, i wonder where my compensation is for reading this ****.

[Keighvin]

How about the knowledge that both of his accounts are banned, hopefully forever?

[Sass]

Or that all of his points were refuted some number of pages back :whistling:

[KillaMike]

Not so sure about radiation being implemented, or it's pvp relevance.

I am sure about the banning part and making a 2nd account is begging to be re-banned.

well... it says in rules if you banned, dont come back till ban is over, or if perm.... you should have gotten it yourself.... any ways, i am not saint here, but even i am reading rules sometime to break them

back to topic:

if d3 wont be we pking, i think quite a huge number of people gonna quit d3 before it comes out.... :whistling:

[psyadam]

I may be a noob (I have a 40 hour a week job and don't play WoW), and I haven't read any of the posts yet except the first post in this thread, but I figured before I did I would like to say something brief about my feelings about pvp.

I think that while Diablo 2's pvp seemed a bit flawed (mostly because it seemed like if you just battled random people, mostly just to try and see how much you would win with your skills and best gear that you had spent so much time getting), there were two problems that made it seem unsatisfying. Well at least two problems.

The first problem was that generally you had no way of knowing whether you and your opponent were at least somewhat evenly matched, so you either pwned him or he pwned you immediately. The solution would be to have some sort of rating like in chess. Also, you could have special events where ordinary players could watch the best that way. That would be awesome.

The second problem was that there were wasn't any separate area (or "arena") to fight in. It was always just outside the towns, so the player would just warp into town instead of dying when he or she was low on life and out of potions.

I guess a third problem might be that you didn't get anything for your efforts if you won. I'm not suggesting that you should necessarily have to have the player give up something ridiculously important, but I think it certainly be more interesting if two players could bet a part of their gear or something in their inventory. Also the rating system as I mentioned would be nice to have.

Otherwise I think the pvp was very nice to have, because what was the point of getting all this nice gear unless you could do something with it?

[TarnishedHope]

``you could be a nec with the 200 fcr bp``

Thats not correct you cant get 200fc on a necro waring nigma.

Umm..

200 fcr on a necro... wut? You like overstacking?

Lots of baseless accusation. In the end, the OP is... entirely off. (professioner gamer, lol... you make a living playing games?)