how to do most efficient solo mf hell cs runs ?

[HegemonKhan]

how to do most efficient solo mf hell cs runs ?

(from river of flame waypoint to diablo)

since i usually don't have friends, i am either forced to do public cs runs (which is very hard to pick up an item against 7 other players), or solo (by myself) do cs runs.

what is the most effective way to do solo MF cs runs? i don't mean merely to do a cs run effectively, i mean to do one while also having the best chance of getting rares during it while still being able to do the run without dying and to do it fast.

i presume the hdin or sorc (has to have at least 2 elemental damages for immune monsters of course) is best. though how do u gear him/her for having some mf for getting rares? (i know fully mf geared hdins....are very fragile due to no resistance and that's really bad in hell cs)

[Fists of War]

In my opinion, you won't be able to do hell cs solo with a full MF hammerdin, or a duel-element sorc. Well, it's not impossible but it would be pretty slow.

You'd either want to use a high level din with great gear, and take it reasonably carefully, or use a high level blizz sorc with equally good gear. The only problem with the second character is killing Seis. Maybe static and a +2 sorc +3 lightning staff would work, but then he can spawn LI. Even then, you'll need great gear and the only way to get consistently good drops will be to get first kill on Diablo. If you are solo'ing, you'll need to raid other hell games, which makes if even harder.

If you are serious about doing solo runs, just buy 3 CD keys, install 3 copies of the game on 3 different user accounts and it's all good. Make a game with a BO barb, and BO a sorc and a din. Use a sorc to tele and kill viz, then use a Lord din to clean up and get the juicy d drop. 99% sure this is a completely legal/legit way to play more than one character. If not, then a mod will need to edit my post!

This however, is pretty tedious and cookie-cutter. But it's what you'll have to do if you can't play a part in a private cs sorc/din/barb team who rotates drops or something.

[fledgeling]

Technically a barb and a din can do it too - you BO with the barb and then jump to CS; it's much slower of course

[HegemonKhan]

i ment with OUT full mf gear, as i already pointed out that it really slows u down and makes u fragile to all the elem attacks since u got no resists.

but i'm sure it's possible to have some mf gear on...so what's the best balance of mf gear and good gear ?

and i'm too poor/cheap/stingy to buy 3 cd keys and too tech/comp non-savvy to do that and that's too extreme/serious for me.

[Fists of War]

Haha yeah, it is a tad hardcore for most people. If I was in your situation I would get together with one other person who can make non-quest games and do fk diablo with a din. I really wouldn't want to try and get any MF gear, because even with non-MF gear it's a bit slow.

[fredsta54]

light fury/plauage javazon solos hell choas easily, as does revive nec, but it will slow in bigger games



Fred

[TraderScope]

A way of doing this is soloing Hell CS with a travi-barb if you don't care about possible deaths (experience loss).. I do this with my barb when I have dinged a lvl, so the possible exp loss doesn't concerne me. It's very easy to clear hell CS (1 player) with barb, using WW and conc. Like this I can magic find the seal bosses too which is a very nice addition. When CS is clear I would come with my sorc to FK.

[fredsta54]

a no physical damage crushing blow/ open wounds ww barb(gnasher/gobtoe/clegs gloves) easily solos hell chaos without worrying about iron maiden, nightsmoke is used to get back mana




Fred

[HegemonKhan]

i don't want how to clear hell cs...i want how to WHILE MF'ing (having some mf for finding rare items).
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hmm, well i could just glitch hell diablo, though this would require finding someone or a game where diablo quest is completed.

the fastest way would be probably a sorc (teleport) or a barb (leap). both of these though might have a harder time in cs (staying alive or killing normal monsters or seal bosses). the paladin is extremely good at hell cs, however getting from river of flame wp to cs takes awhile compared to a barb or sorc.

how would i make a sorc or barb (i know how to make a hdin...who doesn't) to be able to release diablo (able to kill seal bosses at least some times depending on seis spawned immunities) and kill him the fastest without dying ?

here's my own ideas (give me your own advice/ideas or critique the ideas i'm about to list down below):

sorcs:

full iratha, darkglow, 30% FWR resists rare boot or hotspurs, 10% FCR resists rare rings, shard, resist shield (socketed or rare). THAWING and ANTEDOTE pots for 95% CR and 95% PR !!!!

1. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO, 20 CM, 20 icebolt, 20 teleport. 1 pt warmth. 1 pt static. 1 pt FM. rest of pts into firewall.

2. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO, 20 CM, 20 icebolt, 20 teleport. 1 pt warmth. 1 pt static. 1 pt LM. rest of pts into (lightning) nova.

3. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO, 20 CM, 20 (lightning) nova, 20 teleport. 1 pt at least LM. 1 pt warmth. 1 pt static. rest of pts into LM.

4. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO, 20 CM, 20 firewall, 20 teleport. 1 pt at least FM. 1 pt warmth. 1 pt static. rest of pts into FM.

5. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO/Bliz, 20 (lightning) nova, 20 firewall/meteor, 20 teleport. 1 pt FM. 1 pt CM. 1 pt LM. 1 pt warmth. 1 pt static. rest of pts into static.

6. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO/Bliz, 20 (lightning) nova, 20 static, 20 teleport. 1 pt CM. 1 pt LM. 1 pt warmth. rest of pts into where ever.

7. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 20 FO/Bliz, 20 firewall/meteor, 20 static. 20 teleport. 1 pt FM. 1 pt CM. 1 pt warmth. rest of pts into where ever.

barbs:

full iratha, darkglow, 30% FWR resists rare boot or hotspurs, AR resists rare rings, 4 of each elem damage (fire, cold, lit, poison) 6 socketed (all same elem-gem) (if possible) naga or exe (for max 1 handed range of 3) or gnasher (breaks easy though), resist shield (socketed or rare). THAWING and ANTEDOTE pots for 95% CR and 95% PR !!!!


1. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. 1 pt ww. 1 pt weapon mastery. 1 pt bat com. 20 BO. 1 pt at least nat res. optional 20 into nat res. 20 inc spd. 1 pt LA. optional 20 pts into war cry. optional 20 pts into bat cry.
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what would be the best (sorc, barb, paladin-hdin) character and build type ?

[TraderScope]

Like I said, with my MF-Travi barb (the usual build) I can solo hell CS easily with only 1 in berserk + 1 from tarn helm.. if you are careful and don't mind the occasional (1-2 deaths) per run.. with MF'er you shouldn't care about XP anyway so it's not really a problem. You will clear Hell CS in 15 mins nad find rares on the way. Hope this helps.

[HegemonKhan]

hmm, i'd prefer to be able to ignore/avoid IM curse deaths. seems that this would make cs'ing faster as u aren't dying to it or wasting time manuevering (separating obliv lords from rest of monsters) or casting war cry first to stun all the oblivion lords or trying to seek out the oblivion lords and kill them first while avoiding the rest of the monsters.

which of my sorc build ideas would u think is best (#1-7 sorc build types) ?

or provide your own sorc build for me ?

agree with my gear choice for both sorcs and barbs or no ?

[fredsta54]

then go for gnasher ww build, no worrys about wwing, crushing blow with ww owns, followed by open wounds which gets stronger per lvl, easily kills hell chaos, and quickly too.

beserking in cs is suicide without warcry, and while decripified is agoniziing to watch




Fred

[HegemonKhan]

would 6 socked elem nagas (can nagas get 6 sockets ?) or exes (i know exes can get 6 sockets) be an alternative to gnasher ?

1 naga/exe with 6 p rubies
1 naga/exe with 6 p emeralds
1 naga/exe with 6 p topazes
1 naga/exe with 6 p saphires

(i'd switch between them for killing different monsters)

ww through with saphire weapon killing all non-cold immunes

ww through with rubies or emelds killing all non-fire/poison immunes

etc...

[Fists of War]

Cool, that's a kind of innovative approach. Not sure how effective or annoying it is, but I'd say give it a go :P

[fredsta54]

would 6 socked elem nagas (can nagas get 6 sockets ?) or exes (i know exes can get 6 sockets) be an alternative to gnasher ?

1 naga/exe with 6 p rubies
1 naga/exe with 6 p emeralds
1 naga/exe with 6 p topazes
1 naga/exe with 6 p saphires

(i'd switch between them for killing different monsters)

ww through with saphire weapon killing all non-cold immunes

ww through with rubies or emelds killing all non-fire/poison immunes

etc...

they would do high enough physical daamge to be killed from iron maiden, the only 6/pgem weapon id ever make, or even consider viable, is a 6xptopaz millitary pick on an conviction zealer, combined with the light dmg armour and any other sources of elemental damage you can get from gear, never made since neveer found a 6 socket pick, except in single player ><

but a zealer would get raped in hell chaos no matter what you wear



Frred

[HegemonKhan]

hmm...i hope you're wrong, and the base phys damage from a naga/exe isn't enough to allow IM to be a danger...
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hell difficulty drops 6 socket (grey) weapons. nm and norm definately can't.
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anyways,

i have a few sorcs already, even though none of them are tailored directly for this (maybe some time i'll make a sorc directly for clearing hell cs as fast as possible, which of course includes being able to kill all seal bosses especially seis), so i decided to try to make a barb just for clearing hell cs as fast as possible and killing diablo for the godly rare drops he CAN (still pure luck if you'll get the godly mods or not on exceptional weapons or armors or +2 rare amulets or rare rings) spawn.
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here's the barb i plan on having and have lvled so far:

HK_Lucifer

he's only about ~clvl 30

how i plan to build him:

enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit.

gear:

full iratha, darkglow, 6 socket war axes or gnasher, resist shield (3 p diamond socket grey shield or godly rare shield), godly rare rings (AR and resists), godly rare boots.

i decided to go with axe type weapon. this is because a war axe only takes 67 str. also this means i can use gnasher too. i'd much rather use the gnasher if possible. except i thnk the gnasher is only range 1 (not sure what gnahser's range is) and it DOES break easy. but it'll save me a lot of stat pts compared to a war axe.

i believe the war axe is a range 3 axe 1 handed weapon. this could cause a problem with IM because it's base phys damage might be too high (even though my damage would come from the 6 sockets-gemmed elem damage). also, as i mentioned the str req is 67, which is pretty high for jsut wanting it for its range 3 and possible 6 sockets.

skills:

20 bo, 20 nat res (so i'll have "good" resists even with LowRes curse on me), i'm leaning towards doing 20 incr spd (for faster csing), leaning towards doing 20 bat cry (for reducing monster damage-making it safer for my barb AND the -88% monster def as i'm worried about my to hit ability due to slvl 1 axe mast and slvl 1 ww), for rest of sk pts leaning towards war cry or maybe enough pts into find item for it to be at a decent chance. at least 1 pt ww. at least 1 pt axe mast. at least 1 pt find item. 1 pt bat com

i could go with maxing ww and axe mast but this could be bad with a war axe with IM. however, i fear my low-lacking AR might make hitting difficult.

the 20 bat cry can help, but it's hard to cast it on every monster due to it's short radius.

so i could not do it (bat cry) and war cry, and raise my axe mast and ww for the AR bonus. but, i'd rather not waste my remaining 40 sk pts jsut for AR if i don't have to..if i do have to...than i guess i will/must obviously.

i don't know which to do (due to possible AR to hit problems):

prefered (if to hit isn't a problem):

20 BO, 20 nat res, 20 incr spd, 20 bat cry, rest into war cry or find item. 1 pt ww. 1 pt axe mast. 1 pt bat com

if i need the AR for to hit chance (and the damage bonus isn't enough to make IM a danger):

20 BO, 20 nat res, 20 incr spd, 20 ww, 20 axe mast, 1 pt bat cry, at least 1 pt find item. 1 pt bat com

how'd he is to be used/played:

STAY GLITCHED (non-baroned. stay as a lord)

cast bat com, BO, shout. leap attack (or leap, maybe i should put enough pts into leap for jumping the gaps to cs in river of flame if there aren't monsters to use leap attack on to jump the gaps) to cs from river wp, run-ww (incr spd makes this faster) to seals, kill seal bosses (bat cry slvl 1 or 20. ww slvl 1 or 20. axe mast slvl 1 or 20. war cry slvl 0 or 20. use gnasher or correct elem 6 socket war axe), and than kill diablo and hope he glitch drops godly exceptional rares. rinse and repeat.
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thoughts, comments, feedback, suggestions, advice, criticism ?

[TraderScope]

War Axe - Naga's little brother (normal item) can also get 6 sockets and is only 67 str req. I think this will be your weapon of choice with this approach. Update as you progress and GL!

[HegemonKhan]

TY, that's also not much higher than the 55 str needed for iratha hat.

67 (war axe) -55 (iratha hat) +8 (gnasher) = only 4 more str :D

axe mast (axe type) was definately the right choose....gnasher or 4 more str for war axe and 6 sockets!

TY lorg!!! :D

~clvl 40 ish now...trying to lvl n rush him :D
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also, i been thinking a bit.

if i do use the gnasher, having a high to hit chance shouldn't be needed. since my damage comes from OW and i'm using ww, even if i had (to the extreme) 5% chance to hit, i'd still hit and it wouldn't matter because i only need to hit once...since more hits just re-set the OW timer anyways and doesn't give more damage.
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update:

doing nm cs runs now. ~ clvl at 40-50, wasn't paying attention to what my actual clvl is, sorry.

everything seems good. have some problems killing right now due to low clvl and using gnasher (OW needs higher clvl for more damage). only other problem later on is all the ghosts...in cs...drain mana...constantly dranking mana pots due to the ghosts' mana drain attack. the three items (amulet, belt, hat) that have % damage to mana mod all use same slots as iratha. not sure if u can get rings, shield, boots with % damage goes to mana mod. so mana could be a problem...hopefully with high enough clvl gnasher can kill hell cs and kill fast enough that the mana wont be a problem. can't mana leech due to no-low phys damage. maybe manald/soj might work with their mana regen (not sure if soj has mana regen. i keep forgetting exactly what all its mods are).

for skills i think i'm leaning towards now:

20 bo, 20 nat res, 20 incr spd, 20 bat cry, rest into war cry or find item. 1 pt bat com. 1 pt ww. 1 pt axe mast. at least 1 pt find item.

i currently have put stat pts into for (with OUT gear) 55 str and rest vit.

if gnasher seems to be too weak even at high clvl (80-90 ish) for hell cs than i'll add 12 more str for teh war axe and go with 6 socket elem damage. hopefully gnasher or 6 socket elem damage can kill hell cs.

[WarlockCC]

You could also use Goblin toe and boneflesh to get the CB and OW.
Then you don't have to depend on the amazing durability of the Gnasher and you could combine it with the poison axe(which will be obscenely expensive to repair after every CS, due to the 6 gems you stuck in there).
So be sure to grab a couple of armors, wands, staves and/or scepters in every CS or you'll find you don't have the gold to fix the weapon you need to kill. At least you won't die very fast, so you can safely store large amounts of gold on the character.

[HegemonKhan]

hmm that's an idea, i'll have to see how my resists and life fair, to see if i can switch out resist gear for other gear, like the ones u mentioned.

it would be better for killing using your suggestions:

6 socket elem damage war axe + OW + CB

though goblin toe would mean no 30% FWR, and slow down my cs'ing speed
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laughs... i just thought of something....while contemplating whether i should get frenzy or not..more speed... maybe i should...

2 gnashers (do they stack OW and CB ?) or gnasher + xixot sword (whatever it called for CB) or blood cresent (resists + OW)
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well anyways, update #2:

doing hell cs runs, taking a break to xfer gear off.

got BO and nat res maxed. working on bat cry. i don't have a resist shield equiped yet (going to do that now) and without it i had 70 30 30 30 resists with low res curse on me. so i definately need the resist shield. so that means no dual wield and frenzy speed boost and no warlock's gear suggestions. after i max bat cry, i'l max incr speed. than lastly i'll add to find item i think for popping seal bosses or oterh special mosnters. i'm clvl 50-60 now.

[WarlockCC]

You could even consider using goblins+rattle+swordback+poison axe, for some monsters, the flee option will trigger, meaning they will be bleeding while they are running around and your weapon won't deteriorate as much, since you're hitting them less.
With Iratha's providing you with 65 res all and your natural res getting you 67 res all if you're willing to spend 20 points in it, can get you up to 82 res in Hell. Add 4 +skills and you're at 85 in Hell.(not counting the lower resist curse)

The lower res curse can be counteracted with some res rings. Although 3 are possible on a ring, let's be reasonable and presume 2 res per ring, with a maximum of 30, so you could have 30 more of each res if you can find the right rings.

I wonder though, for this build, how do you intend to get mana and/or life back ?
On rings you can get 5/5 or so max, which will not be much with the low physical damage.

btw, I'm not sure 600 poison damage(minus the monster's resists) over 7 seconds will do a lot for a 8000 life venom lord, but I guess it's to drain away the last bits of life from the venom lord after CB does it's dirty work.

[HegemonKhan]

hmm, good suggestions, but i think ima stick with using a gnasher, darkglow, full iratha, AR resists rare rings, 30% FWR 10% FHR 30% FR 30% CR halved chill duration rare boots, resist shield (ward, 3 p diamond shield, rare shield) for now. i wanna see how much damage the gnasher (50% OW 20% CB) can do. it doesn't break too often.

only problem right now is that i'm at like ~18% chance to hit. but than again i'm only clvl ~67 in hell cs. i got slvl 20 bat cry which gives -88% def to monsters. it doesn't seem like the bat cry is applied to the LCS, so i got to be able to hit better than 18% with monsters only having 12% their def, though my AR is only like ~600, and only ~clvl 67.

mana and life are a bit of a problem. chug pots like crazy. HATE the ghosts...mana drain attack. life leech and mana leech do NO good due to gnasher near zero phys damage.

though my barb is looking promising for its purpose...if the gnasher CAN kill....

IM (iron maiden) curse has no effect on me. the low res curse has no effect on me (90 95 81 95 with low res curse ON me) (~ 200 200 200 200 total resists. 67 iratha + 67 nat res + 55 ward-for now= ~200 all resists). i need to get a little more lit resist as u can see, which is easy to do...jsut need to find a ring or whatever with more lit res on one of my mules some where. the phys melee attack by monsters still hurt a lot. i'm glad i decided to go with 20 bat cry. it helps lot. but even with bat cry if i'm amp cursed or decrep cursed the phys melee attacks by monsters still hurt a bit (seis minions still "pack a punch").

so taking in the good and bad, the build looks promoising...if the OW from gnasher can kill eventually at some attainable clvl *for me* (~ clvl 86).

[WarlockCC]

It doesn't break that often because you are not hitting that often. :)

Well, let us know how it goes.

[HegemonKhan]

you pretty much said it... 20% to hit right now...clvl 72?..~500-600 AR for ww. so far gnasher is too weak and gnasher hardly hits too (but OW, CB, and bat cry should negate this problem), but i'm doing 8 player games for exp/lvling.

my biggest accomplishment so far:

staying glitched lol !!!

i like check the quest screen immediately upon entering a game, and than check it an additional 6 times every game making sure diablo quest isn't open, lol.
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update 3 or 4 ? :

55 str. ~365 vit. base dex. base nrg.

~clvl 72

20 BO, 20 nat res, 20 bat cry, ~10-12 incr spd, rest of pts either into axe mast (gives +8% AR bonus which is beter than ww which gives +5% AR bonus) or find item.

the ~ 200 all resists is very nice (pesky noob pk sorcs can't even dent me, pk noob emo hdins are a problem though....grr). low res curse doesn't hurt me at all because i still have 90 95 (with thaw pot) 82 (still need to get gear to raise this) 95 (with antedote pot) with it on me. and the 20 bat cry helps a lot.

[baelon]

At the risk of going off topic - are you strictly looking for good items? If so, make a glitcher. I have a godly trav popper with around 170 mf and I've done a lot of solo CS on him. While barb is my favorite class in classic, I have to admit my glitcher finds way more than him. If you get into a good CS series on a glitcher you can get a meph kill every 90-120 seconds, trav / cs just doesn't compare.

[TraderScope]

At the risk of going off topic - are you strictly looking for good items? If so, make a glitcher. I have a godly trav popper with around 170 mf and I've done a lot of solo CS on him. While barb is my favorite class in classic, I have to admit my glitcher finds way more than him. If you get into a good CS series on a glitcher you can get a meph kill every 90-120 seconds, trav / cs just doesn't compare.

Meph can't drop the the godly items people are looking for from Diablo's Sanctuary. At least +2 amus and High ED "high-end" weapons like Martels/Execs/Nagas and BHs can't drop from Mephisto, because the affixe's level is higher than what Mephisto's is, which makes the CS runs for some all worthwhile. Diablo has the highest level in Classic.

[HegemonKhan]

as for fastest,

that's the sorc. however, she can have trouble killing (just all the normal monsters in cs), staying alive (more with the melee hits from monsters, since u can/should/will have resist gear), AND u need to have at least 2 good damaging elements (cold+fire or cold+lit) for seal bosses (mainly seis).

as for most powerful,

that's without a doubt our loved/hated hdin. the only weakness of an hdin, is the path from river wp to cs entrance. slows him down compared to barb or sorc. however once inside hell cs, he can zip (charge-vigor) around as fast as sorc or barb.

than for the middle guy,

we got the barb. (see above posts about him).
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P.S.

my original post was about mf'ing entire hell cs, but it's too hard to try to do or make a build that can use some mf gear. so instead this thread's just about solo glitching hell diablo the most efficient way. no mf gear, instead using the glitch method with hell diablo, and ignoring trying to mf the rest of cs.
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update # 4 or 5:

~clvl 70-80. still doing 8 player cs games. so gnasher can't even damage any monsters yet. also, my AR is still abysimal (can't spell), though it may not matter, since with using OW and CB (from gnasher), i only need to get that 1 hit per monster for OW and a as many hits for CB, which shouldn't be a problem with non-stop ww's (still working on it though, still got mana/ww problems, not sure how to fix it). maxing incr spd right now. got bat cry, BO, nat res maxed. i am NOT gonna do war cry. after i max incr spd, i'll do axe mast since it gives more AR boast than ww does. i also, might raise my str to 67 ? for using 6 socket war axes, that lorg suggested (much better than 125 str for naga!).

[Fists of War]

From scimming your post, it seems like you should max mastery well before increased speed if you are having problems hitting. In fact, I'd max mastery even before ww, and leave ww at level 1, for less mana drain and less physical damage. You could use angelics to make up for the lost AR, not sure if you want to use other rings/ammy though.

[fledgeling]

Meph can't drop the the godly items people are looking for from Diablo's Sanctuary. At least +2 amus and High ED "high-end" weapons like Martels/Execs/Nagas and BHs can't drop from Mephisto, because the affixe's level is higher than what Mephisto's is, which makes the CS runs for some all worthwhile. Diablo has the highest level in Classic.

amulets are gambled mostly though

[HegemonKhan]

to be completely precise:

ONLY TWO WAYS TO GET +2 amulets:

1. gamble at clvl 86-99 (including 86)
2. hell diablo

it's quicker to gamble a +2 amulet than trying to do hell diablo runs and hope u get a +2 amulet. by gambling u, only need the amulet to have the +2 mod. where as, when u do hell diablo, u have to first get an amulet selected for being on of the drops and than it has to have the +2 mod. as u can see gambling is better. however, at clvl 86 (the lowest clvl u can get the +2 mod on amulets when gambling), u hardly ever gets u a +2 mod blue amulet, let alone, a +2 mod rare amulet with many other good mods on it as well. as u get more clvls toward 99 the odds of getting +2 mods and rare amulets from gambling increases significantly.
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what lorg ment, is that the "high end" weapons/armors (exceptionals like lance, mart, exe, naga, bh, ancient axe, gothic bow, balista xbow, ornate, chaos, mage, etc.. with the better/best mods like kings + mercilous for the highest damage range amount of 162-200% EDmg and other mods etc..) are only spawnable from hell river and hell cs monsters. this is only about monster drops.

shoping, gambling, imbuing, cubing are all OTHER means of getting weapons/armors with mods that work their own way. see such threads on forums about them or use the wiki.

[HegemonKhan]

From scimming your post, it seems like you should max mastery well before increased speed if you are having problems hitting. In fact, I'd max mastery even before ww, and leave ww at level 1, for less mana drain and less physical damage. You could use angelics to make up for the lost AR, not sure if you want to use other rings/ammy though.

1. ya, this was one of my big decisions. i decided to go with incr spd (for faster movement for faster runing) hoping (and still hoping) the to hit will improve or not be a factor for me. we shall see... if i made the wrong choice, than i suffer the consequences:D though, if i were to re-make i'd also now know this and make the opposite decision.

2. i definately agree that the axe mast comes before ww. for the sheer reason, as i have already stated in my post: axe mast gives +8% AR bonus per slvl, and ww only gives +5% AR bonus per slvl. especially for the gnasher, neither the damage bonus for axe mast or ww and the critical strike bonus of axe mast is going to make any difference. i forgot who and too lazy to check, but one of u said that i could have damage (IM=iron maiden) problems if i used the 6 socketed weapons (6 socketed grey war axes). if i decide to raise str to try them, i shall find out, if the person is correct or not :D

3. also nice point about slvl 1 ww costing less mana than slvl 20 ww..didn't even think about this eccentive for raising axe mast over ww.

4. if i have AR problems, i could try to find 1 other person to help me. they could be a sorc and give me enchant to boost my AR or another character/build that helps out to hit chance and folow me around.

5. if i seriously find myself needing more AR (and don't have another character's help, which could be quite possible), i think...the best improvision (i think/IMO) would be to use angelic armor instead of darkglow (*IF* angelic armor + angelic rings gives the rings AR. hopefully it doesn't have to be the angelic amulet + angelic rings to give the rings the AR).
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i won't know any of these questions, until i hit clvl ~86, and try to do a "solo" (1 or 2 player game, including me) hell cs run with the gnasher. than i'll know if it works or not. and if not, what problems i have, like: damage (unable to kill), to hit (unable to hit), gnasher only doesn't do enough damage, gnasher breaks too much, 6 socket war axes' elem damage isn't enough to kill, 6 socket weapons' (war axes') base-physical damage is too high and getting killing by IM, lacking mana, etc...

[baelon]

Meph can't drop the the godly items people are looking for from Diablo's Sanctuary. At least +2 amus and High ED "high-end" weapons like Martels/Execs/Nagas and BHs can't drop from Mephisto, because the affixe's level is higher than what Mephisto's is, which makes the CS runs for some all worthwhile. Diablo has the highest level in Classic.
I've gotten maybe 5 total rare amulets from soloing diablo countless times, and none were +2. In fact, one was clvl 9 required, another clvl 13. It's entirely random and the odds aren't in our favor. Conversely I've gambled a lot of rare +2s (I'm 88).

As for weapons, hell Meph is more than high enough to drop the king's, merciless and berserker's mods: http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act3-mephisto.shtml

[HegemonKhan]

it's "believed" that classic super uniques (including act bosses) are hardcoded at different mlvls than LOD (except for hell diablo). there's still a debate over whether hell meph can drop kings mod or not. there was a thread on it and based on how i read the posts, it seemed an even split and no true confirmation if hell meph could drop the kings mod or not. some said he could and some said he couldn't. left me confused anyways.

[TraderScope]

I've gotten maybe 5 total rare amulets from soloing diablo countless times, and none were +2. In fact, one was clvl 9 required, another clvl 13. It's entirely random and the odds aren't in our favor. Conversely I've gambled a lot of rare +2s (I'm 88).

As for weapons, hell Meph is more than high enough to drop the king's, merciless and berserker's mods: http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act3-mephisto.shtml

This is wrong. The monster lvl's for classic are different from LOD and this has been confirmed by hacks (I believe?) that show ilvl's. Meph can't drop those mods on martels/Execs nor Nagas.. only low-end weapons can get these mods from him.
At least no one has ever confirmed this by posting for example a found High ED Martel on anywhere in the internet I believe.

Hege: You keep confusing me with Lorg in your posts btw, I think we are both from Finland though. Maybe that's why?

[Lorg]

I've gotten maybe 5 total rare amulets from soloing diablo countless times, and none were +2. In fact, one was clvl 9 required, another clvl 13. It's entirely random and the odds aren't in our favor. Conversely I've gambled a lot of rare +2s (I'm 88).

As for weapons, hell Meph is more than high enough to drop the king's, merciless and berserker's mods: http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/act3-mephisto.shtml

What you mean about countless diablo runs can't in reality be very much as your highest char is 88 lv. One does get exp from mf runs also.
To me a good mfing day is 100+ priv cs runs. That means few rare amulets from diablo every day ^^

When diablo drops an amulets its always 90 lv amulet and those can have the +2 mod. When you gamble with your 88 lv its -5 to +4 to to get and 90 lv amulets and that has to be rare to be of any use. So the gold amount you have gambled must be pretty high to get lots of +2 amulets ^^

[HegemonKhan]

Hege: You keep confusing me with Lorg in your posts btw, I think we are both from Finland though. Maybe that's why? -traderscope

my bad, wasn't/isn't my intent. apologizes. who ever deserves the credit, deserves the credit. it not smart to try to remember who posted off of a bad memory to begin with :D
"you europeans are all the same to me". j/k :D

actually the three people/names who give me the most trouble:

fledgling/fredsta/fistsofwar i always get these three confused...they all start with F !!!!. i can't take it, they get me all mixed up!!!
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and lorg (yes it is lorg...i made sure i got the correct person this time), that's a good point about gambling...i forgot that gambling as that -5 to +4 range. though, to me, i think this still beats out the chance that the game selects the amulet item type for a hell diablo drop. this is my rational:

for gambling:

-5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +3, +4 .(that's 9 options). at clvl 86, only the +4 yields the +2 amulet mod, so that's 1/9 chance of getting an amulet that has the chance at the +2 mod.

for hell diablo:

there's WAY MORE than 9 item types to choose from (too lazy to try to count all the item types). so let's jsut say there's 50 item types and only 1 of those item types in the amulet item type. so that's 1/50 chance of getting an amulet that has a chance at the +2 mod.

so for odds gambling wins out.

how about speed:

even with having to collect gold, gambling is still faster than doing a hell diablo run.

in 1 hell diablo run, u only get to kill diablo once for a chance at the amulet drop.

in the same hell diablo run, if u pick up all the items that can sell for decent gold, u get let's say enough gold to gamble hmm let's say 3 amulets

so for speed gambling wins out again. 3 amulets in the same time is better than only 1 amulet.

gambling, it seems to me, is completely a better option than doing hell diablo runs for +2 amulets. however, do get a higher clvl than 86...as 86 is the bare minimum for the +2 mod and i know that u almost hardly ever get it, let alone a rare with other good mods along with the +2 mod.

[Lorg]

for gambling:

-5, -4, -3, -2, -1, 0, +1, +2, +3, +4 .(that's 9 options). at clvl 86, only the +4 yields the +2 amulet mod, so that's 1/9 chance of getting an amulet that has the chance at the +2 mod.

for hell diablo:

there's WAY MORE than 9 item types to choose from (too lazy to try to count all the item types). so let's jsut say there's 50 item types and only 1 of those item types in the amulet item type. so that's 1/50 chance of getting an amulet that has a chance at the +2 mod.

so for odds gambling wins out.



Hegemond. Not saying that gambling is not good. Its just not that good at lv 88.
And you are bit wrong here. The odds for the 90 lv from gambling does NOT guarantee +2 mod. Just 90 lv amulet -> then game does the same as with diablo drops = has those multiple chances to give you an amulet without +2 mod (eventhought its 90 lv amulet). Gambled amulet also has to be rare (1/10) otherwise u get 90 lv BLUE amulet, which CAN get but does not necesseray be +2 mod...

Anyway, kill in cs gather items sell them before dia drop and then sell all items that dia drops nets u 100k-200k per game + exp and diablo kill = you can gamble and fk dia + exp ^^

[HegemonKhan]

i stand corrected :D

it was a simple-rough-crude example, wasn't ment to be accurate or precise.

i just ment that u can get/try for ~"3" amulets with gambling VS (in the same time) u only get/try for ~"1" amulet from hell diablo. of course u could do both on the same run. pick up items to sell for gambling amulets and kill diablo and hope for an amulet drop and hope again for a +2 mod. my example merely ment to show that gambling is "better" for trying for +2 on amulets since u get more amulets in the same amount of time to try to get the +2 mod on them. there is of course MANY MORE factors that make this much more complicated, but for this simple factor i used (more vs less amulets) in this crude example, gambling is "better".

and ya i shoulda mentioned that it's still only a CHANCE at a +2 mod. you WILL "roll" for getting a +2 mod, but that doesn't mean you'll succeed and get it choosen.

[Lorg]

Hmz maybe it could be expressed in numbers lets say 87 lv trav barb doing gold digging and gambling himself. That means 3.15 million gold vs every rare 90 lv amulet. Time to get that depends ofcourse on gear etc. But most do them in priv games as travincical gets lots harder in games that are full . Especially, if you don't have very kicky martel or choose to wear gobs (and loose res gf anf mf + speed). Now if you do priv games one could do them very fast. Still as 20 games / hour is the target time as more will get u temp banned. Lets assume that u can pull constant 20 games per hour = 150k (average) per run + maybe some nice rares as travincical can drop kicky gear as a bonus. One travincical people do die occasionally. This can be verified by HC players in general. Not many travincical gfers around there... 3 million/ hour not bad. everyone who has done trav knows that doing that all day along know that u get distracted and can't keep it up. 30 million / day is just not happening with all the transfers etc. But for calculations lets assume that u can pull 3.15 million per hour as avg and with all the failed joinings selling and trasfers and bla bla bla drops to maybe 20 million aday and thats a very dedicated trav runner (gets boring and if u happen to die annoying aswell) with nice gear and you have to take time to gamble ofc so lets say 18 million = 5 90 lv rare amulets a day.

Comparing this to priv running goes: actual cs run u make in 1.5 min but the need for getting 3 chars in game and low speed as loaders are not used (Rapid account switching is slower) makes actual run into 4.5 min avg + all the trasfering etc reduces the amount of priv csing with 3 chars into 12 runs per hour = 120 runs a day (10 hour playing) (depending on mf mood and other distractions) lets assume 100 runs with all the brakes etc. average 5 items from diablo = 500 items aday if 1 /100 happens to be amulet = 5 rare amulets a day. On top of this you get 100k on average from selling gear = 10 million a day that you can gamble. The most important bonus in priv cs mfing is that while in trav its hard to level above 88, its pretty easy to level to 92 in cs. MOst end up 92 or 93 and gambling at that level yealdsmuch better chances for +2 amulets as the cost per amulets drops toward 630k @ lv 95...

My argument is that as 92 lv is pretty ez to reach one is better off to level by csing until 92 lv and then proceed to gather gold via trav barb for the 92 lv gambler.

Personally, i trade items for game gold to gamble with my paladin and continue to cs -> eventhought it gets boring its not as boring as gfing in trav.
This very hasty post and i'm sorry for any mistake, but i think the general meaning comes through. Furthermore, everything is based on personal experience and may be completely wrong. That's just how i see things atmo :coffee:

[HegemonKhan]

less hasty and more meaningful accurate/precise/correct/has actual data-numbers than mine :D

[serendipity]

Thanks for all that info Hegemon and Lorg. I have a question about what you said about gambling though, Lorg. You said that at lvl 95, it takes about 630k (10 ammy's) to gamble a +2 ammy. That would mean it takes about 6.3mil at lvl 86 and 1.26mil at lvl 90 (which is the lvl I'm at now). I find this hard to believe because it takes me at least 2mil (as much as 3mil) to gamble a +2 ammy, and if I do get one, that's ALL I get. They are always plain too. I want to regain my faith in gambling, and your post encouraged me, but I think the odds must be half of what you said. You're saying the chance to get a +2 ammy is 1/10 at lvl 95, 1/20 at lvl 90, and 1/100 at lvl 86; I think it's 1/20, 1/40, and 1/200 respectively, but that's just from my limited experience of gambling 20mil. You are probably right, as I am much less experience, but can anyone confirm some numbers? (I like math.) Thanks!

[Lorg]

Thanks for all that info Hegemon and Lorg. I have a question about what you said about gambling though, Lorg. You said that at lvl 95, it takes about 630k (10 ammy's) to gamble a +2 ammy. That would mean it takes about 6.3mil at lvl 86 and 1.26mil at lvl 90 (which is the lvl I'm at now). I find this hard to believe because it takes me at least 2mil (as much as 3mil) to gamble a +2 ammy, and if I do get one, that's ALL I get. They are always plain too. I want to regain my faith in gambling, and your post encouraged me, but I think the odds must be half of what you said. You're saying the chance to get a +2 ammy is 1/10 at lvl 95, 1/20 at lvl 90, and 1/100 at lvl 86; I think it's 1/20, 1/40, and 1/200 respectively, but that's just from my limited experience of gambling 20mil. You are probably right, as I am much less experience, but can anyone confirm some numbers? (I like math.) Thanks!

Hmz u don't read carefully enough mate ^^
At 95 every amulet you gamble has chance for +2 mod as they all have item lv 90... The cost of 630k comes from the fact that 1/10 of amulets are rare -> 630k to gamble a rare 90 lv amulet. IT's not ALWAYS +2 just that it has chance of + 2 MOD in the first place. Just the possibility for mod to spawn....
Just like diablo always drops an amulet that is 90 lv and has CHANCE for the +2 mod...

Maybe this helps you out :thumbup:

And for the record i have gambled maybe 150 million (might be more havent kept any records and ladder has been pretty long now) this ladder with 90-92 lv char and still only got 5 nice +2 amulets (lots of single res or blue ones ofc).

What comes to if its good or not comes from the fact that its easy to gather gold while mfing and where else would you spend gold and sometimes you might get lucky and get very kicky one ^^

[serendipity]

No, I read carefully. I understand that you only have a CHANCE of getting +2 ammy's even at lvl 95 and only have a 1/10 CHANCE of getting a rare at any level. But that is not my question. I simply asked if you or anyone else could estimate the chances at lvl 86 or 95 (take your pick) that you will gamble a +2 ammy (whether it be blue or yellow). If someone says that the chance is 1/200 at lvl 86, I can then infer the rest, for example it would be 1/20 at 95 (with simple math). Thanks a lot!

For example, how many +2 ammys (blue and yellow) would you say you gambled with your level 90-92 (let's say 91 for simplicity's sake) with your 150 million? 50? 75? 100? And I suppose 1/10 of these would be rare?

[TraderScope]

The chances an amulet gets _any_ +2 affix is ~6,6% according to that german site's tables. For a specific (let's say sorc) affix of +2 to spawn the site lists surprisingly 1,58 but
6,6 : 5 != 1,58 :O
6,6 : 5 = 1,32

So maybe we could predict it's about 1,5% chance that a specific +2 affix would spawn on an amulet, I don't know. You will be the judge :)

[Lorg]

No, I read carefully. I understand that you only have a CHANCE of getting +2 ammy's even at lvl 95 and only have a 1/10 CHANCE of getting a rare at any level. But that is not my question. I simply asked if you or anyone else could estimate the chances at lvl 86 or 95 (take your pick) that you will gamble a +2 ammy (whether it be blue or yellow). If someone says that the chance is 1/200 at lvl 86, I can then infer the rest, for example it would be 1/20 at 95 (with simple math). Thanks a lot!

For example, how many +2 ammys (blue and yellow) would you say you gambled with your level 90-92 (let's say 91 for simplicity's sake) with your 150 million? 50? 75? 100? And I suppose 1/10 of these would be rare?

That's very hard question as the blue ones i charsi on the spot and rares with bad mods i give to friendss if they happen to need and as i said earlier only got 5 amulets via gambling worth selling/keeping. But you could use Traderscopes data and aply it to cost to gamble 90 lv amu and rare. 86 certainly is not worth it imo. atleast 88 is needed.

[HegemonKhan]

86 certainly is not worth it imo. -lorg

CONCURS !!!!!!

[serendipity]

Okay, thanks. Traderscope, what do your commas mean? Are they decimal points? Does your last statement mean that you think it's a 1.5% chance or a 1/5 chance? (20%) And that would be at level 95 right (with a possibility of a +2 mod always spawning)?

Thanks a lot!

[TraderScope]

Okay, thanks. Traderscope, what do your commas mean? Are they decimal points? Does your last statement mean that you think it's a 1.5% chance or a 1/5 chance? (20%) And that would be at level 95 right (with a possibility of a +2 mod always spawning)?

Thanks a lot!

Commas are commonly used in Europe in maths to describe a decimal, although neither is wrong (Comma and period are both fine in here..).
So you could read it 1.5%, not 20%.

[FireMarshal]

That would mean an Amulet with a +2 mod once every 66-67 gambles. Seems about right to me. Of course some people would experience otherwise, it is pretty random after all. Not guaranteed, I mean.

[serendipity]

So just checking, you're saying that 1 out of every 66/67 ammy's gambled will have the +2 mod at level 95? It sounds about right. (That would mean 1 out of every 1/133 ammy's at level 90?) Thanks a lot for the clear up.

Oh, just to make sure, we're all talking about +2 skills (of a character class) right?

[HegemonKhan]

yes. the coveted +2 class mod on amulets. (i.e. +2 barbarian amulet, +2 paladin amulet, etc..)

though, jsut a note:

+2 mod amulet by itself, isn't that great (unless u want +skill gear. like for a prebuff barb's bo or sorc's chant or such +skill builds or etc..). usually a +1 mod amulet with prism mod is more prefered than just a +2 mod amulet. of course, a +2 mod amulet with prism mod or other good mods is much better! and a rare amulet with +2 mod, prism mod, 10% FCR mod, etc.. (up to 6 mods for rares. 3 prefix. 3 sufix) is godly!