can't they get sued? [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

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Psyco

19-02-2009, 14:34

Popeye

19-02-2009, 17:11

who knows... anyway in this kind of games its usual to take ideas from others. For example, balrogs in diablo and diablo 2 came from the lord of the rings, but nobody cares because that improves the game.

Knight_Wolf

19-02-2009, 17:27

/facepalm .. seriously ... Blizzard always admitted they look for inspirations anywhere .. everyone knows they do ... and nobody can sue them cause they don't carbon copy stuff directly ... they only take inspiration from it ... and if you don't know the difference .. well .. never mind !!!

Mizantrop

19-02-2009, 18:23

Psyco

19-02-2009, 19:41

Knight_Wolf

19-02-2009, 19:47

well i know but if you've played BG,Nvwn.....you would know that its the exact replica of some of the D&D spell some look exactly the same...i know blizz take idea from other stuff but they do change them...apart from the orc from warhammer and warcraft

You will understand how meaningless your accusation is when you look at the basic fire ball spell in any RPG .. surprise .. they all look the same .. let's sue everyone then :crazyeyes:

mackemradge

19-02-2009, 21:01

I am going to post a killer guide for a D2 build and then sue anyone who uses it.

Grug

19-02-2009, 22:14

Psycho, there are copyrighted spells and there are spells that are Iconic. Iconic spells are things like Fireballs, Magic Missiles, and Teleport. They're so common in fantasy that no one owns the rights to them.

Also, PLEASE stop using Ellipses instead of periods. I'm sick of everything you say sounding like this... It's not proper grammar... It sounds like you're speaking really slowly...

Psyco

20-02-2009, 07:37

emmm....no...:P...just kidding il try sorry ExtraCrispy wasnt trying to annoy anyone and i speak slowly when i do this....because i think about tons of stuff at the same time;)

oh and Knight_Wolf this wasnt Accusation i think everyone got this all wrong,like you see how Overlord said thx for gremlin and Dungeon keeper for giving them tons of idea for their game and it was based alots on these 2,i think that the most simply and classy way to do thing,i dont want them to get sued for that wiz,but seriously D&D created how RPG class work and alots other stuff in RPG,monster for example and im not talking about skeleton,zombie,vampire,kraken,etc...im talking about the one that were invented by them like the beholder,the mind flayer,Drider,etc..or the drow race and such like dragonkin

anyway basicly is it that hard to say thx to them for creating such stuff...most spell like magic missile,stoneskin,mirror image,etc...would never been invented if not for them and geek that created the whole D&D..fireball is actually really different its been in history for a long time,the bible,alots of prophecy of old time mention fireball and myth about people being able to send lightning or fireball...probly because human saw these sometime and didint understand how a meteor can enter the earth atmosphere or lightning striking a house or forest for no reason,so its really different what i was talking about was unique spell that were created from the human imagination

oh and i doubt if you recreate an exact replica of the Mona Lisa and sell it you wont get any feedback from this btw its HIGHLY illegal to sell perfect replica because of the method it take to analyse a painting that old,and its not an altered copy of a caveman drawing sorry but the Mona lisa was not only highly technological for its time but also a masterpiece..seriously research the Mona lisa and its not for nothing that its so prized...and yes i do know what you mean by that but if that was the way it worked everyone would claim the technology of everyone else or the art or culture without even giving them credit for it

and Mackemradge if you do create a guide for a D2 build and you mention that they need your permission to be used you CAN sue them if they dont

and also if you mean altered in that many sense...then i could burn every game of blizz and i wouldnt actually be stealing them they would be altered since it wouldnt be an official cd,box,book of the game,common people are you all american or what?...is saying thx for something you didint create THAT hard?

seriously whats the point of making the human race advance and create new idea if we dont get credit for it or any kind of thx...why the hell do you think copyright exist?...even copyright is seriously a american biased concept of appurtenance of the rich and wealthy that want only to get richer

think about it...no doom?
no populous
no sim city
no civilisation
no mario

dont you have any respect for gaming root?

p.s are you all on your period?seriously i rarely want to be mean in my post or aggresive guys and that simple little post got you all fired up lol

try to realise what im saying here...you invent something wouldnt you want a thank you for it or credit for it?

korialstraz

20-02-2009, 08:37

and Mackemradge if you do create a guide for a D2 build and you mention that they need your permission to be used you CAN sue them if they dont

No you can't. Blizzard own the rights for game content, you are allowed to use it. If you make a guide you can say others can't copy that guide and release it as their own though, since it's your work.

Psyco

20-02-2009, 09:15

Knight_Wolf

20-02-2009, 10:00

oh and Knight_Wolf this wasnt Accusation i think everyone got this all wrong,like you see how Overlord said thx for gremlin and Dungeon keeper for giving them tons of idea for their game and it was based alots on these 2,i think that the most simply and classy way to do thing,i dont want them to get sued for that wiz,but seriously D&D created how RPG class work and alots other stuff in RPG,monster for example and im not talking about skeleton,zombie,vampire,kraken,etc...im talking about the one that were invented by them like the beholder,the mind flayer,Drider,etc..or the drow race and such like dragonkin

Sorry, everything is derived from something else, no human can create anything if he lived all his life in a black box .... they took inspiration from other sources to create their D&D lore .. and Blizz in turn used them as one of their sources of inspiration ... BIG DEAL .. that's how things work.

anyway basicly is it that hard to say thx to them for creating such stuff...most spell like magic missile,stoneskin,mirror image,etc...would never been invented if not for them and geek that created the whole D&D..fireball is actually really different its been in history for a long time,the bible,alots of prophecy of old time mention fireball and myth about people being able to send lightning or fireball...probly because human saw these sometime and didint understand how a meteor can enter the earth atmosphere or lightning striking a house or forest for no reason,so its really different what i was talking about was unique spell that were created from the human imagination

Very very subjective .... every spell and magic we see in games is based on some lore or myth out there ... even if you make something slightly new it is still INSPIRED by something else ... and if you think mirror images and stone skin spells didn't exist in magic stories and lore before then you have my pity .. go read some books.

oh and i doubt if you recreate an exact replica of the Mona Lisa and sell it you wont get any feedback from this btw its HIGHLY illegal to sell perfect replica because of the method it take to analyse a painting that old,and its not an altered copy of a caveman drawing sorry but the Mona lisa was not only highly technological for its time but also a masterpiece..seriously research the Mona lisa and its not for nothing that its so prized...and yes i do know what you mean by that but if that was the way it worked everyone would claim the technology of everyone else or the art or culture without even giving them credit for it

Copying the the Monalisa is something and copying a magic spell is something completely different ... and by the way .. you can replicate/redraw the Monalisa and sell it as long as it is labeled as a "replica" ... it's public art property ... nobody can stop you from doing that.

And there are already countless adaptions, reworks, re-imaginations for the Monalisa out there ... and nobody either can stop you from creating your own version of the Monalisa.

and also if you mean altered in that many sense...then i could burn every game of blizz and i wouldnt actually be stealing them they would be altered since it wouldnt be an official cd,box,book of the game,common people are you all american or what?

LoL ... are serious, the game is the code itself, not the CD or the box .. these are just mediums .. did you know you can actually download digital copies from Blizz online shop .. either way that's completely irrelevant to the topic.

is saying thx for something you didint create THAT hard?... seriously whats the point of making the human race advance and create new idea if we dont get credit for it or any kind of thx...why the hell do you think copyright exist?...even copyright is seriously a american biased concept of appurtenance of the rich and wealthy that want only to get richer

You have got to be kidding me .. what do you want exactly !!? ... if anyone who creates anything (movie, game, book) has to write some sort of "Thanks" for every inspiration to the things in the movie that list would be 10X longer than the movies/book/game itself .. get real.

If you don't know the difference between [ inspiration / adaptation / fan fiction ] then you are really oblivious to how things work in the movies/gaming/books industry.

Don't you have any respect for gaming root?

So ?

try to realise what im saying here...you invent something wouldnt you want a thank you for it or credit for it?

Nobody invented magic lore .. it exists since the dawn of history.

korialstraz

20-02-2009, 10:07

you do own the right to the guide itself therefore you can sue an exact replica that didint have permission

That's what I said... but in my previous quote you made it sound like (at least to me) that if you made a guide you can sue anyone who built their character according to it.

Psyco

20-02-2009, 10:21

No you can't. Blizzard own the rights for game content, you are allowed to use it. If you make a guide you can say others can't copy that guide and release it as their own though, since it's your work.

didint makemrage say this?O_o

ok and knight_wolf seriously....idea dont come from everything around the world god were did you go to school? the power of thinking bring idea which then bring invention...thomas jefferson if i remember right,yes some idea were inspired by nature and other stuff but you have imagination that invented stuff also...the atom bomb is a freaking invention...not a good one but it was theory at first then they tried it and it created the weapon..most of our invention come from war you do know this?apparently not,apparently its when the humain brain is the most active therefore more efficient and give us stuff like the catapult,sword,masonry,mettalurgy,rocketry,etc.... and also without war...yeah Refrigeration was invented cause we've seen something similar /rolleye..oh and stainless steel yeah fish made that....god seriously what do they teach you in school?how to be dumb?you just lost all credit in 1 post..seriously i would have though you would have been smarter then this instead of just trying to act like a smartass 10 year old that basicly just want to be right...you didint even try to understand this post at all

seriously yeah i get how the gaming,music,movie industry work...they create crappy stuff still have the right to spread lie about it and people get ripped off and thats how the rich get richer and the poor stay poor and some middle class get poor...but what you will say its because of their own stupidity and not the propaganda that they spread...im guessing you never ever actually went to see what other country looked like or never actually went in place of your country that are poor...its their fault well thats basicly what you said in you're post

when i say a copy of mona lisa i mean a copy i dont mean your own version read...

also funny how you consider copying the mona lisa and copying something else different..yeah thats really smart...but wait you're against people copying game?what what??

and no not every spell in game were created from myth and legend...far from it myth were created by man...even when they had nothing to compare it to like a shadow or something...even today you have myth and legend that pop up...wayyy different but still....our imagination will always help us invent new stuff...even not based on reality we know...dream can bring new and original idea its been tested on children a long time ago bro..most adult tend to mix reality in their dream because of their knowledge maybe thats why you're so....unimaginative

and the fact that you dont respect any inventor just show you should get dropped in a poor country just to....have "fun" and clear your mind a bit and realise how lucky you are to have these invention at your disposal...god i hate spoiled brat that dont recognise other people achievement and respect them...oh and talking about respect....if everyone would think like you basicly i take whatever i want then?sooo...i dont respect you i can rape and kill your familly and you..steal your car and everything you have cause...i dont respect you?...that just make no sense like stealing any idea or technology because you dont respect any root of it

i doubt people that get game illegaly respect the creator of the game either...just saying how it work in you're beautifull world of "freedom"

and this "Nobody invented magic lore .. it exists since the dawn of history."....i simply dont get.....im talking about spell that were created by D&D...not really the entire magic concept

anyway i guess nobody understood or really want to understand what im saying...or maybe people dont respect much these days i guess unless it affect them...so might as well close this post it will just lead to more misunderstanding and flaming and hatred from kid with anger management problem...do i sound that provocative?cause this was actually an attempt as a respecful talk about how the wiz just look exactly like a wiz in D&D and guess nobody actually respect D&D just like doom,simcity,etc..any root basicly /cry even i was getting agressive if you read a bit higher O_o i had such good intention lol ;_; oh well

edit:love the way people say i need to read more when apparently they are the one lacking simple knowledge i said the spell they invented...reread my damn post omg

Popeye

20-02-2009, 11:10

this doesn't have any point. Blizzard can't get sued, those spells were invented before D&D (maybe you should read more), and I was trying to duplicate the mona lisa in my house, so I thank you all.

Make love no warcraft

Popeye

20-02-2009, 11:36

Psycho, don't get mad, if this makes you feel better, I'll put an altar in my bedroom full of D&D stuff. Seriously, I don't think that anyone in here (a forum about a game) wants to hear about how life is outside of the US or analogies with raping our families, I think that the main point of those who aren't agree with you, is that it's too dificult to find the roots of the wizard concept, and so, it looses sence to claim for them.
Also -correct me if I'm wrong- D&D uses halflings, which in fact are hobbits. Would anyone like to see D&D sued for using small people? Would anyone like to see Blizzard sued because of using a girl slowing time?.

Also, sorry for my ortography. PS: I did went to shool

korialstraz

20-02-2009, 12:02

didint makemrage say this?O_o

Yes he did, you just quoted me out of context, I explained it earlier.

Mizantrop

20-02-2009, 15:30

Sorry if I was a bit agressive on you Psyco. But the title of your thread made it look like another troll topic which get the snappy comments out of me.
I do disgree with you about human innovation. Everything people create was already in the universe.
Nukes=super nova
Sword=animal claws
guns=bow and arrow=porcupines

Humans might take those things (that are already there) and "improve" them for thier needs (or pleasure).

Telzen

21-02-2009, 00:10

He has a point though. Inspiration is one thing, but they directly copied some spells. Don't you usually at least change the name?

Grug

21-02-2009, 00:59

And I explained that there are certain magic spells that are so much a part of fantasy that they can't be copyrighted. Okay, so Ray of Frost and Acid Splash were copied, but things like Teleport and Magic Missile and Fireball are owned by no one. They really were trying to invoke the feel of a DnD Wizard. It's an homage, not a ripoff.

Durin

21-02-2009, 16:25

Just wondering...the wiz is...seriously almost exactly like the wiz in D&D...wayyyy to similar to be a coincidence....can't they get sued for this kind of stuff?....like the captain crunch in WoW at first that needed to be changed

i actually like it since i played all the BG and nvwn game and im a big fan of their spell system althought nvwn2 was kind of a ripoff with the new rule...but still did they ask the permission?...or are we gonna get stuck with a bunch of idiot that think blizzard created stoneskin,magic missile,mirrior image,conjured armor,etc... like how people think Warhammer40k is actually a clone of starcraft when starcraft and warcraft are there because of Warhammer and Warhammer40k actually

will wizard of the coast accept this?do they get their share?where they asked for this?did blizz actually gave them credit to these awesome spell?
Warhammer is not original, in fact it's so far from being original you can call it a kitsch. All those creatures and races like tyranids, orcs, elves etc are made decades before Warhammer even came out. Even if Blizzard found inspiration in WH, roots of that inspiration lie elsewhere cause WH is just a perversion of it's predecessors, like it or not.

Chorkstain

26-02-2009, 13:48

To my mind, the counter arguments being offered aren't exactly watertight either. I'm no lawyer, but if you take something invented by something else and use it as your own, isn't that plagiarism? (No intention to demonise Blizzard here) The only argument offered to counter this, in this thread right here, is 'Everyone does this it happens all the time, magic missile and disintegrate etc are part of the territory', which doesn't fly. If this were valid, people would write dissertations at universities that ripped off other people's ideas, claiming it to be common knowledge.

I would say that somewhere, Blizzard cites anything it uses that could be traced back to an original author, otherwise they would leave themselves open to litigation. As long as they give credit where credit is due, they shouldn't get sued.

P.S. Psyco, your posts are super hard to read.

korialstraz

26-02-2009, 14:47

Brother Laz

26-02-2009, 18:17

It's a homage, not theft. (Sigh)

Chorkstain

27-02-2009, 08:08

I'm no lawyer myself, but there are some arguments which fails here. Mainly the one about denying others to use a guide you wrote.

Anyway Blizzard isn't stupid, and wouldn't use spells or steal ideas without making sure they can't be sued for plagiarism.

Sorry, wasn't talking about the guides. Right with you there. I think you summed up what I meant pretty well.

It's a homage, not theft. (Sigh)

Does it being a 'homage' factor into possible legal proceedings? The point that I was making is that Blizzard probably circumvents this problem by acknowledging the original creators of the content.

The question was 'Can't they get sued?' and not 'Are Blizzard thieves?', so saying that it's a homage and not theft isn't a satisfactory answer, because I'm pretty sure that saying 'it's a homage' doesn't cut it legally when justifying using another person's original content.

korialstraz

27-02-2009, 08:33

Sorry, wasn't talking about the guides. Right with you there. I think you summed up what I meant pretty well.

I know you didn't, it was just an example ;)

Does it being a 'homage' factor into possible legal proceedings? The point that I was making is that Blizzard probably circumvents this problem by acknowledging the original creators of the content.

The question was 'Can't they get sued?' and not 'Are Blizzard thieves?', so saying that it's a homage and not theft isn't a satisfactory answer, because I'm pretty sure that saying 'it's a homage' doesn't cut it legally when justifying using another person's original content.

I agree. I don't think as you say that saying it's a homage will cut it on court. But can't we look at the spells almost like you would with that guide example? As long as Blizzard doesn't outright copy the spell down to the last detail they're safe? Just like someone may take your guide, make their own layout and change some stuff around and call it their own. You can't copyright words, but you can copy right layouts. Like with spells, you can't copyright a spell, but how it works?

That wasn't perhaps the best explenation, but I hope it makes sense at least :P

Psyco

27-02-2009, 11:17

Warhammer is not original, in fact it's so far from being original you can call it a kitsch. All those creatures and races like tyranids, orcs, elves etc are made decades before Warhammer even came out. Even if Blizzard found inspiration in WH, roots of that inspiration lie elsewhere cause WH is just a perversion of it's predecessors, like it or not.

i was talking about WH being original for what they did with it and the similarity to it and starcraft and warcraft is way to big to say its just coincidence btw and doubt the tyranids idea came out decade before warhammer more like 1 year and Tyranid is a more evolved view of the bio-evolving race so yeah also how they react and use ability and power and the thing certain tyranid do what weapon they use and how they fight and hp,armor and attack...if not for this i really doubt we would have the zerg we have today and im glad we do,also WH took it way farther then a simple perversion i doubt you ever read the WH40k lore and the thing that happen...it was a first time and was never before done

but i still dont respect plagiarism and like Chorkstain said in is post i wasnt also trying to demonise blizzard...that was the point of this post...if i would create game or invention i wouldnt want people taking my invention and saying they made it...or change it without giving me credit for my past work..

is that what we want to become as human?is that the limit of our intelligence?to copy the people who actually give us new way to understand everything or give us new way to help us live better life and not even give them credit...if that how life is going to be we might as well just invent new way to kill everyone of us and just destroy each other

ok maybe a bit to deep for some of you :P HAHAHAHA!!!

anyway read Chorkstain post above,it basicly say all i meant originaly in this post and yeah i know i suck at writting in english really sorry everyone you can help me though would appreciate improving myself

about the guide thing that you can take legal action against people copying your work you CAN take action about that kind of stuff and if he just change a few thing doesnt make it legal at all or else blizz would just had changed the name of capitain crunch to cap crunch or capitain krunck in booty bay...just look at city of heroes just because the player COULD make a replica of wolverine and several other super heroes even if it wasnt perfect replica they still won in court and city of heroes customisation changed drasticly....now when i look at the animation and how the spell of the wiz work its exact replica of how they work in any WoTc game that as been approved like neverwinter or baldure gate...im sorry but this is plagia BIG TIME compared to CoH that had really poor similarity to what marvel as for super heroes,and yes to much similarity is breaking the copyright law in many way or else it would be waaaaayyy to easy to break these law...just look at private server even if they change the game its still using the same code they bought and paid for and model,etc..try making a WoW private server in america just for fun and see what happen...just like if i were to download a song but remove 1 sec of the song and i could say its not the full version or remove a file in a game and then distribute it and say its legal...and what im seeing of all these spell are exact replica...did you guys ever played any D&D for godsake?

hey isnt this post supposed to be dead anyway...or is everyone still trying to go for a flame war like in most post because they are bored? O_o

i dont mind blizz making tons of copy of other game and make them 1000x better but at least they should seriously give them credits,about 3/4 gamer dont know probly that WH40k came WAYYYY before SC...seriously i doubt their would be any SC,warcraft or diablo if not for the game that inspired them...what about FPS...doom anyone? and im not saying they should name every little thing but simply the thing that inspired their current game just like how i told you that the guy that made Overlord told people all about who they were grateful for the idea that made the game what it was today

and last thing about the guide just look at Gamefaqs they have all their faqs backed up now with copywrite just a few were not protected from other site and its a bit logic imo that now they all do for all the new faq they put in there...or people wouldnt write faq which then would make the site dead...just what basicly would happen with game or any other product seriously if the guide exemple is bothering you so much just research it or lets just stop talking about it since it isnt about this but was just an example that people dont seem to get cause they probly never writted a faq in their entire life imo

just read the post of chorkstain a bit earlier and you will see what was the purpose of this post is(some retard geek fan will probly still defend blizz forever even if they are wrong imo though,and im a huge fan of them ive still got my copy of the first warcraft but i dont think what their doing is right,just because they are blizzard doesnt make it right)

korialstraz

27-02-2009, 13:42

hey isnt this post supposed to be dead anyway...or is everyone still trying to go for a flame war like in most post because they are bored? O_o

Do you even know what flaming is!? I've seen you post several times how everyone is flaming everyone on this forum. I rarely see flaming, and when it happen a mod takes care of it. Every thread I've seen you accouse people of flaming it's just been normal discussions.

and last thing about the guide just look at Gamefaqs they have all their faqs backed up now with copywrite just a few were not protected from other site and its a bit logic imo that now they all do for all the new faq they put in there...or people wouldnt write faq which then would make the site dead...just what basicly would happen with game or any other product seriously if the guide exemple is bothering you so much just research it or lets just stop talking about it since it isnt about this but was just an example that people dont seem to get cause they probly never writted a faq in their entire life imo

It's not so much about the guide, it was just an example and people seemed to miss the point, and I felt like trying to explain it. Btw you fail to mention that guides on gamefaqs may have been stolen from others. That and that so many guides on that site are trash compared to what you can find other places.

Durin

27-02-2009, 15:03

doubt the tyranids idea came out decade before warhammer more like 1 year

8 years before to be correct.

it was a first time and was never before done

It was not a first time, you can lie to yourself if you wish, it's not may problem.

i wouldnt want people taking my invention and saying they made it...or change it without giving me credit for my past work..

The problem with Games Workshop is - it's not their invention.

i know i suck at writting in english really sorry everyone you can help me though would appreciate improving myself

don't apologize to those who can't read between the lines. IQ80+ person shouldn't need perfect spelling in order to understand your text.

some retard geek fan will probly still defend blizz forever even if they are wrong imo though,and im a huge fan of them ive still got my copy of the first warcraft but i dont think what their doing is right,just because they are blizzard doesnt make it right

There is nothing wrong about Blizzard. It's the naive thinking of WH fans that makes it so, but no one shares that opinion except them. If you look at things from neutral perspective you will understand what I mean.

Srikandi

02-03-2009, 00:15

It's certainly true that very few character classes in ANY RPG are even remotely "original".

But as for the idea that "everything is an altered copy of something else"... maybe so, but we DO have a legal notion of copyright and intellectual property, which is presumably what the OP was asking about. Does it apply here? Maybe.

I would guess that there is a point at which a character class bearing too much resemblance to a class in an earlier game could be seen as copyright infringement, if the makers of the earlier game cared to sue. I think they'd have to show that the copied elements really were completely original with THEIR game, and that taken all together they constituted something unique which couldn't have been arrived at independently. I have no idea where exactly that threshhold would be.

Since I don't think there's much actually original in D+D though, I doubt it would apply in this case. WotC got their stuff from all over just like Blizz.

Psyco, since you say you want to improve your English, you might note that in Standard Written English we write punctuation marks with a space afterwards, and no space before :) That lil thing would help make your posts more legible. Using a capital letter at the beginning of a sentence also helps -- it's a convention that doesn't have much utility in online chat or text messaging, where the line break serves the same purpose, but in connected text it actually really helps the reader find the sentence boundaries.

The other thing would be editing your posts for length ;)

AxlStrife

02-03-2009, 00:34

Wizards of the Coast has an Open Game License on stuff like Magic Missile, the d20 system, and classes.

No, action cannot be taken on Blizzard for using content that falls under this license.

End of story.

nicro tower

02-03-2009, 00:50

AxlStrife

02-03-2009, 19:26

Took 31 posts for a clear answer to that question.

I have another question though: Do you still have to ask permission from Wizards of the Coast if you use things like Forgotten Realms and Spelljammer from them? (eg. Baldur's Gate games, Planescape: Torment, etc)

I believe you still have to ask if you use certain aspects from those that are copyrighted under WotC for a different since they don't fall under the Open Game License. I'm not 100% since I can't look at what all falls under their OGL at the moment.

I know that D&D 4 doesn't fall under it, but all (or almost all) items that fall under D&D 3 and 3.5 are under it.

nicro tower

03-03-2009, 03:00

Slightly OT question.

Didn't the events leading to D&D4 (Spellplague) only happen in Forgotten Realms?

GoldenBird

03-03-2009, 03:31

ok and knight_wolf seriously....idea dont come from everything around the world god were did you go to school? the power of thinking bring idea which then bring invention

Where the hell did YOU go to school? Don't you get the point of what Wolf has said?

thomas jefferson if i remember right,yes some idea were inspired by nature and other stuff but you have imagination that invented stuff also...the atom bomb is a freaking invention...

If Blizz's wizard is a "replica" of DnD's wizard, then the atom bomb is a "replica" of the natural chemical reactions that occur when those substances meet.

Refrigeration was invented cause we've seen something similar

Refrigeration is a "replica" of natural refrigeration, or by using giant ice blocks and putting them in a cooler.

Buddy, you're just going against yourself.

and this "Nobody invented magic lore .. it exists since the dawn of history."....i simply dont get.....im talking about spell that were created by D&D...not really the entire magic concept

Where did you find that DnD invented everything? In case you hadn't had any clue, there were other games invented before DnD.

Inspiration is one thing, but they directly copied some spells. Don't you usually at least change the name?

But then you get everyone going "OMFG L00K AT DA N00000BZZZZ DEY COPEEED DA SPELLZORZ AND CHANGD DA NAME WUT N00BZORZ". Since things like fireball are already standards for any mage archtype, you might as well stick with it. The reaction will be worse if you copy it and change the name (in other words, copying vs plaigerism.

Valvolux

03-03-2009, 04:53

Learn the difference between plagiarism and inspiration, thinking that ‘wizards’ were somehow invented by d&d just shows your ignorance. And as a kindness could you crap on less in your posts please, reading a page long dribble with little to no point is a complete waste of everyone’s time.

Elric-Logain

05-03-2009, 00:46

He has a point though. Inspiration is one thing, but they directly copied some spells. Don't you usually at least change the name?Blizzard cannot be sued for the names of their spells nor based on the originality of the spell effects. The problem is that even if D&D did have a copyright over their spell names, however ridiculous that may sound, if D&D (or rather Wizards of the Coast now) does not protect the usage of that name, then the name becomes terribly generic and difficult to enforce. In those cases, the name and the effect are generally rendered as fair use by other companies.

It is rather impossible for Blizzard (or any fantasy game) to be original with their spells considering the sheer bulk of spells that have been produced by D&D for just about every occasion and effect for the past 30 years. Just about an entire generation of RPG and video game creators have grown up almost completely immersed in D&D terminology, magic, and fantasy.

In other news: The Nations of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, and England sues the Tolkien Estate for plagaristic use of elves.

Durin

28-03-2009, 11:57

In other news: The Nations of Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, and England sues the Tolkien Estate for plagaristic use of elves.

Thing about Tolkien is, he used the existing names for his new races, not existing races for the new names ( as Warcraft and Warhammer always do ) :} In his first book elves were not called elves but "Quendi" or "Eldars". Dwarfs were not called dwarfs but "Naugrims". When he introduced Human race he said "Eldars were called Elves in human language" / "Naugrims were called dwarfs in human language" etc... So there is no basis for anyone to successfully sue him, because he used the names just to ease the reading of the story which was too complex for ordinary people. As he wrote in his letters "There is so much created by now, even I forget some of the names I invented for Middle Earth" and one sentence after, he adds "Because there are dozens of names in Middle Earth for Eldar, I decided to call them all together by one word which is familiar among the readers"

Popeye

28-03-2009, 20:16

Thing about Tolkien is, he used the existing names for his new races, not existing races for the new names ( as Warcraft and Warhammer always do ) :} In his first book elves were not called elves but "Quendi" or "Eldars". Dwarfs were not called dwarfs but "Naugrims". When he introduced Human race he said "Eldars were called Elves in human language" / "Naugrims were called dwarfs in human language" etc... So there is no basis for anyone to successfully sue him, because he used the names just to ease the reading of the story which was too complex for ordinary people. As he wrote in his letters "There is so much created by now, even I forget some of the names I invented for Middle Earth" and one sentence after, he adds "Because there are dozens of names in Middle Earth for Eldar, I decided to call them all together by one word which is familiar among the readers"

:thumbup:
Anyway, I think that eldars are a kind of elves and not simply another way to call them, just, for example like the avari are, correct me if I'm wrong.

About suing Blizzard, imagine how some people will act if they put an elf as the archer class (which could be awesome)

JonoLith

29-03-2009, 01:05

can't they get sued for this kind of stuff?

The short answer is no.

The long answer is that you can't hold copyright over ideas, and after a certain period of time you can't even hold copyright over your specific form of ideas. Also, if you can cite it from before a specific date, something like 1920, it's totally fair use. So even if someone on earth DID hold the copyright for the word "Wizard", they would automatically be totally screwed because someone can cite the usage of the word "Wizard" from before that date and completely use the idea in it's entirety.

Wizards of the Coast holds absolutely no copyright over any words such as elf, dwarf, wizard, dragon, ect. ect. ect. ad nauseum, because the vast vast vast majority of that material comes from ancient folk stories and fairy tales, ALL of which falls into fair usage.

Even Disney doesn't hold copyright over the storySnow White and the Seven Dwarves. They DO hold copyright over the characters Snow White and the Seven Dwarves. Although those characters are going to be coming into fair usage very shortly, if they haven't already, because enough time has passed. But, essentially, if you wanted to make a story called "A white girl and seven short guys" and make it EXACTLY the story of Snow White, Disney can do nothing because they cannot actually hold copyright over the story of Snow White and the Seven Dwarves.

To put it incredibly bluntly. The entire works of Shakespeare are fair use. If you can find the word "Wizard" in shakespeare (The Tempest, Midsummer Night's Dream, Macbeth) you can TOTALLY use it totally for free. Why do you think so many game developers use fantasy settings?

Telzen

29-03-2009, 01:42

Both
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/eldar.html

Don't Elves as we think of them now mostly come from Tolkien? Or am I wrong?

Durin

29-03-2009, 14:33

Both
http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/e/eldar.html

Don't Elves as we think of them now mostly come from Tolkien? Or am I wrong?
You're right. Elves as we think of them come from Tolkien. Only thing that does not comes from Tolkien about them is the name "elf". But they are originally called Quendi so I don't see any problem about that.

Durin

29-03-2009, 14:38

:thumbup:
Anyway, I think that eldars are a kind of elves and not simply another way to call them, just, for example like the avari are, correct me if I'm wrong.

Ofc, but thing is before Tolkien introduced Human race which came into Beleriand no one called them "elves" they were simply called Quendi. Eldar is one of the big factions, you're right about that. :}

About suing Blizzard, imagine how some people will act if they put an elf as the archer class (which could be awesome)

Haha, they would start whining "OMFG Elves are from Warhammer, Blizzard stole it" :}}}} I always laugh at such naive comments :}

Funkopotamus

31-03-2009, 00:43

Mizantrop

31-03-2009, 01:04

Yikes, that post is an altered copy of a stretch. And this post is an altered copy of a bad joke.

No joke. Just trying to simplify the term pastiche (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastiche). Badly, I'll give you that :whistling:

Krugar

31-03-2009, 04:34

On the other hand, trademarks do appear where less expected.

On the subject at hand, the word "Hobbit" is actually one of many Tolkien estate trademarks. On the early days of D&D there was an actual threat to sue when the very first edition used 'Hobbit' and 'Ent'.

While these words are definitely Sir Tolkien constructions and non existing on this context until then, my personal opinion is that the trademark is abusive (and most probably against Tolkien wishes, given his strong desire for his work to be seen as the missing Britain mythos).

In any case, just wanted to mention the fact that, unfortunately, not everything is free to grab. Not even under fair use.

SeCKSEgai

02-04-2009, 10:11

Considering that a great deal of the content in this thread is:
a)hard to read
b) meaningless/poorly thought out
c) both
- it's nice to see some useful information in here.

Machtu

03-04-2009, 05:52

How about...
All it takes to sue anyone or any legal entity is the filing fee.
Winning a lawsuit, however, is a whole different ballgame.

RGValdearg

03-04-2009, 20:43

Many of the generic Fantasy tropes that you see in many fantasy games nowadays (Dwarves, Elves, Wizards, Barbarians, Magic, etc) are essentially part of the Public Domain.

Think of it this way: How difficult would it be to write a "Fantasy" story that didn't involve anything you've ever seen in a fantasy story before? The general Fantasy Ideas are not copyrighted material, only the specific instances of those ideas as they were presented in the original source.

Like, if Blizzard decided to introduce Drizzt Do'Urden into Diablo 3, without the express consent of Wizards of the Coast and anyone else who holds the copyright, they can be sued. However, if they decided to make you fight a Dark Elf who just happened to wield 2 swords, and wasn't overwhelmingly similar to Drizzt, there'd be no problem. The same goes for a character like Legolas. If you add Legolas to your story without consent, BAM, lawsuit. If you add a blonde elven archer. No issue.

SeCKSEgai

04-04-2009, 00:01

How about...
All it takes to sue anyone or any legal entity is the filing fee.
Winning a lawsuit, however, is a whole different ballgame.

I like this idea - however I'm guessing you're not gonna get even that far if the case is deemed....worthless to begin with.

nicro tower

08-04-2009, 05:05

AnimeCraze

27-04-2009, 02:32

On the subject at hand, the word "Hobbit" is actually one of many Tolkien estate trademarks. On the early days of D&D there was an actual threat to sue when the very first edition used 'Hobbit' and 'Ent'.

While these words are definitely Sir Tolkien constructions and non existing on this context until then, my personal opinion is that the trademark is abusive (and most probably against Tolkien wishes, given his strong desire for his work to be seen as the missing Britain mythos).I think Orc were also one of them no, since Orc before his time means some sort of ocean animal? Now, of course, Orcs are just so overused.

Anyways, even if the said spells in question cannot be find in Western Lore, chances are they will appear in some Japanese/Chinese/Indian mythology 1 way or another, so there is practically no way of suing them.

Anyways, putting things into prespective, you cannot even get sued for making Masyu, Nurikabe, LITS, Hashiwokakero, etc. puzzles that originated from Nikoli. Sudoku and Kakuro is left out since they originated from Dell Magazine, but Nikoli was not sued by Dell Magazine on that neither. You just cannot copy the exact same puzzle (otherwise, we would be looking at thousands of lawsuits by now). If you look at this, clearly merely copying a spell is not enough to get you sued.

chezzmaster

08-07-2009, 08:52

If Wizards of the Coast attempted to sue Blizzard for using the Wizard, then the Tolken Estate could sue WotC for taking so much from Tolken's writings. And Tolken was inspired by old tales and legends... see where I'm going with this?

nicro tower

10-07-2009, 01:18

Some country is going to sue Tolken Estate now for taking their myths.

5zigen

10-07-2009, 07:58

Just wondering...the wiz is...seriously almost exactly like the wiz in D&D...wayyyy to similar to be a coincidence....can't they get sued for this kind of stuff?....like the captain crunch in WoW at first that needed to be changed

i actually like it since i played all the BG and nvwn game and im a big fan of their spell system althought nvwn2 was kind of a ripoff with the new rule...but still did they ask the permission?...or are we gonna get stuck with a bunch of idiot that think blizzard created stoneskin,magic missile,mirrior image,conjured armor,etc... like how people think Warhammer40k is actually a clone of starcraft when starcraft and warcraft are there because of Warhammer and Warhammer40k actually

will wizard of the coast accept this?do they get their share?where they asked for this?did blizz actually gave them credit to these awesome spell?

They can't get sued because Wizard isn't a registered trademark (except in the context of Wizard's of the Coast).

Nor is the idea of a magic user or Wizard copyrightable. AFAIK things like this you own the expression of the idea not the idea itself.

There are so many differences between the D&D wizard and the D3 wizard that no type of trademark of copyright suit would get past summary judgment, and would probably be dismissed for failure to state a claim (because you cant claim to own something that is not ownable.)

Likewise it's not patentable.

The idea of space marines and insectoid aliens would also not be owned by games workshop, it would be owned by the author of starship troopers (pub 1959) but afaik the idea of futuristic aliens is not copyrightable either.

Charnel

11-07-2009, 03:14

Everything is an altered copy of something else, Blizzard games are no different in that rule.
You are an altered copy of your parents and the environment, and they are of there parents and so on.
Prius is an altered copy of an old, polluting Ford which is an altered copy of a carriage.
The Mona Lisa is an altered copy of cave-man drawing.

Drink some more and you can believe the whole universe is a copy :]

Influence of the environment can not be described as copy because the result of influence is completely uncertain and depends on universal probability. You can then call it legacy or heritage of the environment but that will bring you into another problem. Like uncertainty principle in physics. If everything was an altered copy of something else ( deterministic ), then particles would have an exact position in space. In philosophy your view is called "determinism" and it's long time since it was proved wrong. In that time they thought even your actions are altered copy of your previous actions :}}}

Doppel

06-08-2009, 15:57

Technically speaking, isn't anyone able to sue anyone over anything, whether it'll be valid or not? So, i'm guessing they could yes, probably wouldn't even be the strangest case.

But anyways, i played BG and all the Infinity games, can't really see that much similarity with the D3 wiz, although (s)he definitively was influenced more in that (magic) direction this time. From a gameplay point of view i like it, although it could take away some of Diablo's character.