Few small questions

[fledgeling]

1. Can anyone redirect me to the thread with the number of CS games needed to level up? (e.g. "10 cs games for level 80->81") - I cant find it.

2. I have a poison necro at level 84 at the moment.
Hopefully, he will have +4 all skills (wand+amu); perhaps +5. I put 60 points into poison nova, 1 into fire golem, 1 into lower resists. Long story short I have 19 spare skill points. Any ideas where should I put them?
Currenly I dont have a +2 amulet, but I should get one sooner or later for a -47% lower resists curse. Shoul I put anything more than 1 point? Next two points substract 2%. Or should I put the 19 (probably a bit more) skillpoints into bone prison? This would lead to a ~360 dmg bone armor.
Is the bone armor worth it?

3. Does poison nova require FCR? I think it does. If yes, are these the standard FCR breakpoints? (I think it does)

[Fists of War]

Lucky I have that thread bookmarked!

http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708750

To save you clicking it:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Extremes = The lowest and highest observation
Average = Average observation (rounded to nearest integer) <- This is how many runs you can expect
Hi-End time = How much time the level will take on average if you are in a high-end CS games series. 2 minutes can be considered high end.
Mid-End time = How much time the level will take on average if you are in a mid-end CS games series. 3 minutes can be considered mid end. Slower than this usually means that the CS runs dies...

Side notes: The high-end and mid-end times count from join of game 1 until join of game 2, so waiting time in lobby/chat are included. I studied many runs of a really fast CS without split/Urdars and the join-to-join times were between 1:35m to 2:05m. The highest times were noted only a few times when the hot-sorc visited Jamella for pots or whatever.

The average and Hi-End time are the most interesting fields. You can almost always find hi-end runs (max 2 minutes per run) during peak time.
These statistics are based on 8/8 and sometimes 7/8 CS (BO slave staying in river). No correction has been done for 7/8 games.



Code

Level | Observations | Extremes | Average | Hi-End time | Mid-End time |
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
70-71 | 1 | - | 3 | 6m | 9m |
71-72 | 1 | - | 3 | 6m | 9m |
72-73 | 1 | - | 4 | 8m | 12m |
73-74 | 1 | - | 5 | 10m | 15m |
74-75 | 1 | - | 5 | 10m | 15m |
75-76 | 1 | - | 6 | 12m | 18m |
76-77 | 1 | - | 6 | 12m | 18m |
77-78 | 1 | - | 8 | 16m | 24m |
78-79 | 2 | 9-10 | 10 | 20m | 30m |
79-80 | 2 | 11-12 | 12 | 24m | 36m |
80-81 | 2 | 11-12 | 12 | 24m | 36m |
81-82 | 1 | - | 15 | 30m | 45m |
82-83 | 1 | - | 17 | 34m | 51m |
83-84 | 1 | - | 22 | 44m | 1h 6m |
84-85 | 1 | - | 29 | 58m | 1h 27m |
85-86 | 1 | - | 40 | 1h 20m | 2h |
86-87 | 1 | - | 58 | 1h 56m | 2h 54m |
87-88 | 1 | - | 86 | 2h 52m | 4h 18m |
88-89 | | | | | |

Not very trustworthy experiment as observation times are so low
But that should give you general clue.

If it's for pvm char only then few points into dex (if charder) do not matter much. Personally i like 80 fcr with my shard din (9k dmg) 3700 life with 28 lv bo --> 6.5 k def @ 92. Would not matter whether i got 3500 or 3700 life...

My pala is used only in 3 ppl or sometimes 4 ppl games mostly in 3 ppl priv cs runs. For those 9k dmg with 80 fcr is more than enough. sometimes i do them with gull (all monsters in cs are high enough to drop 200 ed mods on marts etc) but that slows runs down so mostly i go with shard and 80 fcr -> run time (rapid account switching + removing mf gear before killing dia and re-equipping them + selling) forces my runs into 2.5 to 4.5 min long depending whether cs is crowded or not + occasional join failures.

Most argue that scepter + 50 fcr is optimal for speed and that might be true for 8 ppl games but for small priv runs shard is good enough...

Meh does not look so good in preview, but hopefully you can deduct which category to look for...

Anyway, with good boost and nice csruns with pros, that do not concentrate only on seal boss killing (clear whole upper cs) u could level from lv 1 to 84 in 1 day of playing....

NO time to finish this

------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks to Lorg for that one.

As for the other questions, I'd go for a clay golem to tank. My bone nec has a level 1 golem, along with +4 skills and no golem mastery. He can still do some tanking in p8 Hell CS, so imagine what a few points in both clay golem and mastery could do. Note that he also slows enemies.

But since you've already skilled fire golem, I'd go for 1 in Mastery/1 in Summon Rez. You probably won't need a bone armour with a good golem for a tank, so maybe some more points in lower rez would be good for a little extra damage/range. Anything less than -1% per extra point in Lower Rez would be taking that skill too far though.

Perhaps just save those points until someone more knowledgable come along!

[HegemonKhan]

for a pure poison necro?

i'd get 20 into LowRes. i know it has diminishing returns, but it adds up. ~ -67% resists helps quite a bit from ~ -50% resists.

remember, that +skill gear and LowRes is (i think) your only sources for more damage with your poison necro. so if your poison damage isn't enough u u need to put on more +skill gear or raise your LowRes to it's max of 20 hard sk pts.

also, i'd definately get a pt into attract for crowd control while your poison kills.

how many pts into attract beyond 1 pt depends how much +skill gear u got/use/equiped and how long attract lasts and keeps u safe.

a decent-good duration attract should solve your survivability needs and also allows your poison to do it's dirty work too.

bone armor...it shouldn't really be needed...at most if u really want it...just put 1 pt into it and along with your +skill gear to boost it up
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am also interested in a final confirmation has to if FCR is needed/helps with poison nova or not.

some say FCR doesnt make a difference and some says it does. i can't tell which/who is right.

so if some one knows please share it with a post here!!!

[deichsela]

I had completely forgotten about that level up estimate chart. Here's my estimates from my experience:
88->89 :: 70 games
89->90 :: 125 games
90->91 :: 250 games
91->92 :: 600-700 games

[Fists of War]

I had completely forgotten about that level up estimate chart. Here's my estimates from my experience:
88->89 :: 70 games
89->90 :: 125 games
90->91 :: 250 games
91->92 :: 600-700 games
Also;

92->93 :: 1200 games
93->94 :: 1700 games

Not sure about how correct they are, I think it was some level 93 sorc who told me (also said she was getting 40-60k exp per game).

-------------------------------------------

FCR does effect the speed at which you cast poison nova, at least in single player. However, this is only a small practical benefit to this, as I don't think you can refresh the poison on monsters - you must wait after it has worn off (2 seconds) before reapplying. Can anyone confirm this one?

[WarlockCC]

You do actually refresh the timer. The monster's poison timer will simply be reset back to 2 seconds if it's hit again.
The poison does do not stack unless it has a different timer.

As you write, there is little or no practical benifit.
It's probably more efficient to reset the timer when it's almost done, as that will enable the monsters to 'enjoy' the poison longer for the same amount of mana.

[HegemonKhan]

sorry for not being clear in my question,

but it, or I, HK, was suppose to be or ment to be asking about fcr *IN RELATION* to the poison length ("timer") ...
^^^^^^
ach...my grammer is usally really bad...but i think i made a new record for the worst grammer/"sentence" ever..lol
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
so warlock, due to the poison duration ("timer"), are you saying that NO FCR helps at all since the "timer" is too long for the FCR to have any benefit or maybe just some FCR (first or first few BP's) but not more-higher helps (for example 50 FCR helps but 120 FCR is too fast for the timer and doesn't help) ?

basically, how quick is 2 seconds compared to different FCR's times in terms of seconds ?? see below:

if 0 FCR takes 4 seconds to cast PN and 50 FCR takes 2 seconds to cast PN, than that would be beneficial. but 120 FCR taking 1 second would be useless.

if 0 FCR takes 2 seconds to cast PN than FCR has NO benefit at all.

if 0 FCR takes 4 seconds to cast PN and 50 FCR takes 3 seconds to cast PN and 120 FCR takes 2 seconds to cast PN, than both 50 and 120 FCR would be benefical.

need answers for these 3 situations above ^
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.S.

i jsut thought of something....

even if it doesn't help for increased damage:

FCR can be of great help IF u have to run around (away from monsters) since/if u don't have any crowd control alllowing so u can get off your poison nova and still have time to move away from monsters chasing u (cows-cow area or CS area comes to mind....).

[fledgeling]

Thanks for the information guys.
Apart from Lorgs thread, I remember a complete calculation made by someone (in excel perhaps?).

As for FCR - my necro is going to be used in duels and sometimes he seems to get into the FHR animation while casting poison nova, when hit by someone (orbs, barbs, mages in river). Im not sure if FCR doesnt make the animations shorter, thus the necro would cast the poison few frames faster - and this way avoid getting hit.

As for bone armor Im still wondering if it's worth it. I suppose bone armor uses my resistances, but not the blocking?

[HegemonKhan]

bone armor ONLY absorbs physical damage *i think. i could be wrong*

blocking is blocking...i think u block first before bone armor, but it could be the other way around too. no idea.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
for dueling, FCR should definately be useful.

base PN (ZERO FCR) "speed" is awfully slow. it' pretty much the same thing as strafe lock with an amazon, except it (base PN "speed" or zero fcr) lasts even longer than strafe-lock at a decent-good IAS amount and "fast" WIAS ("fast" bow).

[deichsela]

Bone Armor absorbs only physical damage.

At 0 fcr, the necro casts 15fps. Poison Nova has no casting delay, so the necro can recast every .6s.

[HegemonKhan]

i'm a bit stupid....having trouble understanding it. could u say it in another way or try to explain it to me ?

sorry for my stupidity and inconvenience to u deichsela

[deichsela]

np if 0 FCR takes 4 seconds to cast PN and 50 FCR takes 2 seconds to cast PN, than that would be beneficial. but 120 FCR taking 1 second would be useless.

if 0 FCR takes 2 seconds to cast PN than FCR has NO benefit at all.

if 0 FCR takes 4 seconds to cast PN and 50 FCR takes 3 seconds to cast PN and 120 FCR takes 2 seconds to cast PN, than both 50 and 120 FCR would be benefical. Diablo 2 runs at 25 fps.

Necro fcr breakpoints:
0% 15 fpc (frames per cast)
9% 14
18% 13
30% 12
48% 11
75% 10
125% 9

No necro spell has a casting delay, so all necros with +0% fcr can cast every .6 seconds (15fpc / 25fps)
Poison Nova duration lasts 2 seconds.
The necro can cast Poison Nova, then cast two times more before the first one would wear off.

[fledgeling]

You seem not to understand what I mean.
Take this situation: my necro is casting a poison nova AND at the same moment is hit by someone. As it takes him 15 frames to cast the pnova, he goes into the recovery animationa and the poison nova is not cast (I have the feeling that it actually dissapaers).
I wonder if say 50fcr will give "faster cast speed" (less frames) than 0 fcr.

Perhaps the whole "stopped poison novas" are caused by the fact that my shield is bad (15/10)?

In general I find it really irritating, as the necro tries to attack but is interrupted.


As for the lower reist/bone armor synergy problem I havent decided yet (still miss +2 amulet to make some tests). Im leaning towards the armor; perhaps 2pts into lower resists (so 3 hard points) and rest into bone armor? (I think I will be able to do it at level 86, which is the next level for my newbie nec). Or perhaps should I put some more points into fire golem? The idea is that he kills my opponents with 1hp using his aura. Im not sure if anything more than 1 hard point is worth it (especially as I still lack a +2 amu).

Currently, 450vita (rest base), 60pts into poison (+prereq), 1 fire golem, 1 golem mastery, 1 summon resists; 1 lower reist curse, 1 bone armor and I think 1 into bone wall/prison. 20 spare skillpoints.
Perhaps 19 into bone prison and rest into lower resit (for the 2% decreases)?

[HegemonKhan]

ty deichsela !! i think i understand it now....let me see:

if i understood u right, FCR has no effect on increased damage for PN, since u can already cast it 3 times at 0 FCR, within it's 2 second poison duration. in doing so u only reset the poison duration timer 2 times. it does NOT increase the poison damage since you're just reseting the timer.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
*in case u wondering what i mean when i say/said: increased poison damage:

if u are/were having 1 second time in between after the timer runs out, that's a wasted 1 second of poison damage, aka less poison damage.

if u are/were casting PN right when the timer runs out, u are wasting no seconds of poison damage and thus "increases your poison damage".

however, i now know this has NO bearing since 0 FCR PN is already fast enough to cast 3 times before the 2 second PN timer runs out. u do NOT have to worry about being able to cast PN (2nd time) right after the timer ends from the first PN cast.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
however, it DOES help out for what i and fledgeling (needs/worried about) are talking about in terms of being able to act (or react-respond whatever) faster FASTER having cast PN to move away from chasing monsters or their attacks by not be stun-locked as long.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
fledgeling:

first, are u adressing me or deichsela as being the one not understanding u ?

though, if your necro is getting stun locked from attacks....wouldn't that either be needing better FHR or better shield block speed/recovery, and not FCR ??

i think that FCR would only help if your necro is still casting or in cast animation of PN and the (let's say a melee) monster(s) is able to come up and whack u before u can move out of the way since u still casting or in casting animation. the same is true for ranged ("archer") type monsters to, except u wouldn't be able to move out of the way before the volley of "arrows" hit u.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
i know that FCR does NOT increase the speed of the spell itself.

but i still don't understand the difference from "casting" and "cast animation" (of your character's animation, NOT the spell itself, as i already said i know FCR doesn't effect this). can some one explain what's the difference and which IS effected FCR and which is not ? i'm still confused...

[Fists of War]

Not sure what you're asking HK, but fcr will increase how fast you do the initial cast (ie the delay between you right clicking and the skill actually starting). It will not effect how fast the poison bolts move out, or anything like that.

For fledge: I would recommend a healthy dose of both fcr AND fhr, as you will most likely be spamming nova a lot to hit your target, and you'll also want to use it while you may be getting hit (ie by WW or orbs).

I was thinking about the viability of poison nova in PvP, and I'm not too sure about how well it's going to do :P

For one thing, the effective radius seems pretty small. The actual graphic for nova seems to be a lot bigger than the actual effect, as in monsters (and I assume players) at the edge of the nova tend not to get poisoned. I now know why you got fire golem, but will the radius be big enough? Will it do enough pulse damage, considering you need to divide that damage by about 24 (pvp penalty and fire rez)? Another problem is -poison length among other mods, which metaphorically speaking, rapes your damage.

[HegemonKhan]

err..i'm not sure what your asking what i was asking about...i had to say it that way jsut for fun!!! :D

well to me there's seems to be 4 things involved:

1. the actual speed/movement/animation of the actual spell's sprite (the shooting/flying fireball) or ability (teleport'ING). as what i have gethered, it seems i think everyone agrees that this NEVER changes. FCR has NO effect.

2. the cast delay. the hardcoded delay in certain spells. to keep u from rapid-fire casting the spells (or spell-attack like with immolation arrow). i KNOW nothing changes this. FCR has NO effect.

3. "casting time". this is when u click the mouse and the amount of time it takes to start the character's animation of casting the spell

4. character animation. the animation the character does in casting the spell. or the time between #3 and #1
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
heres my confusion and questions:

*does both #3 and #4 exist or does only one of them exists ? if only one exists, is it #3 or #4 ?

*which does FCR effect #3 or #4 or does it effect both (#3 and #4) of them ?

*or does FCR and/or also effect #1 (in case i'm wrong about it not effecting it) ?

[Fists of War]

I believe that even if #4 is separate to #3, it must have no real effect. Otherwise having fcr would be pointless - a set animation might still make your cast longer. I'm pretty sure the animation you describe in #4 is scaled to take as long as the casting time (#3).

And no, to my knowledge fcr has no effect on #1.

[HegemonKhan]

ah okay thanks, so what i have seen as two different things, everyone else sees them combined as 1 thing. that is what was confusing me!!! now what everyone has said makes sense now lol :D

than be that so, wouldn't FCR help with u casting PN in terms of being able to move sooner, right ?

how does FHR work while you're still in the casting of PN, than ??

wait i think i might know this answer... u stop trying to cast/casting animation of PN and go into hit recovery where FHR than helps, right?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
FCR is only helpful when NOT getting hit, and for when casting a spell, right ?

hit recovery can trigger for any (weapon and spell. i know this is right because the fireball spell can cause stun-lock or hit recovery on monsters and players and weapon hits of course cause u to go into hit recovery) on u and stops what u are currently doing and this is when FHR helps, right ?

shield blocking can trigger for any weapon-attack hit on u and stops what u are currently doing and this is where FBR (faster block rate) helps, right?

[Fists of War]

Basically, FHR determines the amount of frames you are "stuck" in animation for when you are hit for at least 1/12 of your maximum life. FBR determines the same thing, but occurs whenever you block. I'm not sure what happens when they both occur in one hit.

Being able to cast spells while under attack is effected by a combination of both FCR and FHR. Take this following example:

(low FCR and FHR)
Someone hits you, it take 12 frames before you can do anything. After that, you cast a spell that takes 12 frames to complete. 6 frames later, you are hit again, and the casting gets cancelled, and you go into another 12 frames of hit animation, thus never casting anything. This continues until you die or run away.

(high FCR and FHR)
Someone hits you, and it only takes 6 frames before you can do anything. You cast a spell that takes 6 frames to complete, and you successfully cast it before you get hit again. (Hopefully) you then put the other person into hit recovery, allowing you to do to them what was happening to you in the first example.

This is oversimplifying things, but I hope you can see why both FCR and FHR are essential for PvP and very helpful in PvM.