PDA

View Full Version : Calculating Poison Damage


onderduiker
23-01-2009, 13:59
Some (if not all) of what follows may already be known, but to the best of my knowledge it hasn't all been collected in one place on this site. Bkelly's The Tao of Poison (http://web.archive.org/web/20080125084439/http://www.diabloii.net/strategy/x-articles/taopoison.shtml) was an excellent source of information about poison damage for v1.09, but there are a number of changes in Diablo II: Lord of Destruction v1.10+ and the Tao hasn't been updated.

I've also posted Poison damage calculator.xls (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713008), a Microsoft Excel worksheet, in the Diablo Files forum of the Diablo III Community Forums. Even if you know how to calculate poison damage, this should make it easier. :)



Contents

1. Introduction
2. Items
3. Skills
4. Skills and Items
5. Venom
6. +% to Poison Skill Damage
7. Lower Resist
8. -% to Enemy Poison Resistance
9. Calculation



1. Introduction

While damage is displayed in points and length in seconds, both are calculated and applied using more precise units of measurement. Damage is calculated and applied in bits, and length in frames.


DAMAGE LENGTH
Points Bits Seconds Frames
___________________________________
1 256 1 25
Poison damage is displayed as the total damage applied over a length of time, but it's calculated by applying a bit rate (bit damage per frame) for a specified number of frames. For example, a Toxic Small Charm applies 205 bit rate for 125 frames, which is displayed as 100 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds (205 * 125/256 over 125/25).

For simplicity's sake, rate can be expressed in poison damage per second and length in seconds, so a Toxic Small Charm applies 20 (100/5) poison damage per second for 5 seconds. The resulting calculations won't be entirely accurate, but should still give good approximations.

UPDATE 3 AUGUST 2009 When players, hirelings or pets apply poison to a poisoned monster, their poison is applied for one frame instead of the current poison: if their poison has an equal or greater rate, it then overwrites the current poison and it gets applied for its length; if their poison has a lower rate, the current poison then continues for its remaining length. Rates are compared after all modifiers have been applied.

When monsters apply poison to a poisoned player, hireling or pet, their poison is applied for one frame as well as the current poison: if their poison has an equal or greater rate, it then overwrites the current poison and it gets applied for its length; if their poison has a lower rate, the current poison then continues for its remaining length. Rabies and Poison Creeper can also apply additional frames of poison damage when applied to more than one monster.

A monster's damage regeneration is stopped if at least one bit (1/256 point) of poison damage is applied per frame (1/25 second): monsters won't turn green if less than one bit of poison damage is applied per frame. Poison damage can kill monsters, hirelings and pets but will only reduce players to 1 hit point (although poison damage from a subsequent attack would kill them if they remained on 1 hit point).



2. Items

If a single item has both a prefix and a suffix applying poison damage, then the rates and lengths of both are simply added.


SMALL CHARM DISPLAYED DAMAGE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Toxic Small Charm 100 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds 205 205 125
Small Charm of Anthrax 50 Poison Damage Over 6 Seconds 86 86 150
Toxic Small Charm of Anthrax 313 Poison Damage Over 11 Seconds 291 291 275
Alternatively, a combined rate of (100/5) + (50/6) poison damage per second is applied for (5 + 6) seconds, resulting in approximately 312 poison damage over 11 seconds. The displayed damage is rounded to the nearest point, although it should actually be rounded down (that charm's poison damage wouldn't kill a monster with 313 hit points, although it would reduce it to 103/256 hit point).

When multiple items applying poison damage are equipped, then the rates are added and the lengths are averaged.


ITEM DISPLAYED DAMAGE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Toxic Small Charm of Anthrax 313 Poison Damage Over 11 Seconds 291 291 275
Blackbog's Sharp Cinquedeas 488 Poison Damage Over 10 Seconds 500 500 250
Perfect Emerald 100 Poison Damage Over 7 Seconds 143 143 179
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
TOTAL 934 934 704
The average length of these three items is 234 (704/3) frames, so 853 poison damage is applied over 9.36 seconds (934 * 234/256 over 234/25). Bits and frames are the smallest units of measurement, so calculations are rounded down to the nearest bit and frame. Gems, jewels and runes all count as separate items, even if they're socketed in a single item.

There's a bug when calculating poison length for skills that apply a fraction of weapon damage, namely Multiple Shot, Strafe and Blade Sentinel, Fury and Shield. Two items will apply poison damage over the sum of their lengths, while three or more items will just apply poison damage over the longest length of any of those items.



3. Skills

Poison damage skills add bit rate with every additional skill level. The bit rate added also increases beyond certain skill levels. Some skills also add length with every additional skill level, although the increase is linear. Others are synergised by other skills, which apply a percentage increase to bit rate dependent on the number of skill points invested in the synergy skill(s). Skill level is set at the point the player uses the skill, so adding or removing skill bonuses won't have any effect on rate or length if there's a delay between using the skill and applying the poison.

For example, level 30 Poison Dagger applies 1,036-1,080 bit rate for 340 frames, which displays as 1,375-1,434 Poison Damage Over 13.6 Seconds. Fully synergised (20 points each in Poison Explosion and Nova), +800% (20 * (20 + 20)) is applied to this rate, resulting in 9,324-9,720 bit rate for 340 frames and 12,383-12,909 Poison Damage Over 13.6 Seconds being displayed.



4. Skills and Items

Most skills are treated as separate sources of poison damage whose rates (and accompanying lengths) compete with those of other skills and items. However, Poison Dagger and the javelins (but not the clouds) of Poison and Plague Javelins combine the skill's rate with any item rates. Length is calculated by summing skill and item lengths and dividing by the number of items.


SOURCE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
_________________________________________________
Three items 934 934 704
Level 30 Poison Dagger 9,324 9,720 340
_________________________________________________
TOTAL 10,258 10,654 1,044
10,258-10,654 bit rate is applied for 348 (1,044/3) frames, resulting in 13,944-14,482 poison damage over 13.92 (348/25) seconds.

If the only item used were Blackbog's Sharp Cinquedeas, 9,824-10,220 bit rate for 590 ((250 + 340)/1) frames would apply 22,641-23,553 poison damage over 23.6 (590/25) seconds. Although the rate is lower with only one item, the length can be significantly longer and results in far more damage from a single stab.



5. Venom

Venom's rate is applied to any weapon's attack made between its casting and expiration, and adds to any rate applied by items. However, this combined rate is only applied for Venom's 0.4 second (10 frame) length: item lengths become irrelevant.


SOURCE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
_________________________________________________
Three items 934 934
Level 15 Venom 7,808 8,320 10
_________________________________________________
TOTAL 8,742 9,254 10
Level 15 Venom displays 305-325 Poison Damage Over 0.4 Seconds, and the rates of those three items only increase that to 341-361 poison damage over 0.4 seconds.

However, Venom's length does not override those of the skills Poison Dagger and Poison and Plague Javelins. Casting Venom can thus significantly increase the rate applied by these skills while not reducing length, since poison length is the sum of the skill's length and Venom's length.


SOURCE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
_________________________________________________
Three items 934 934
Level 15 Venom 7,808 8,320 10
Level 30 Poison Dagger 9,324 9,720 340
_________________________________________________
TOTAL 18,066 18,974 350
Thus 24,699-25,941 poison damage is applied over 14 (350/25) seconds.



6. +% to Poison Skill Damage

+% to Poison Skill Damage (PSD) is gained by equipping certain items and applies a percentage increase to the rate, which is multiplicative with any synergies. It's also applied to the rate from items and Venom when applied with mêlée weapons, but not when applied with ranged weapons.

The point at which +% PSD is applied varies for each skill, although it is not applied to Poison Creeper.


SKILL APPLICATION
________________________________________________
Poison and Plague Javelins Javelin: Throwing
Clouds: Creation
Poison Dagger Striking
Poison Explosion Casting
Poison Nova Casting
Rabies Bite: Striking
Contagion: Creation
Venom Casting
Equipping Trang-Oul's Heavy Bracers applies +25% PSD to level 15 Venom when cast, resulting in 9,760-10,400 bit rate.


SOURCE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
_________________________________________________
Three items 934 934
Level 15 Venom 9,760 10,400 10
_________________________________________________
TOTAL 10,694 11,334 10
+25% PSD is applied to Poison Dagger's rate, and since it's a mêlée attack it's also applied (separately) to the combined rate of the items and Venom.


SOURCE BIT RATE FRAMES
Min Max
_________________________________________________
Items and Venom 13,367 14,167 10
Level 30 Poison Dagger 11,655 12,150 340
_________________________________________________
TOTAL 25,022 26,317 350
This results in 34,209-35,980 poison damage over 14 seconds.



7. Lower Resist

A target's Poison Resist (PR) % reduces poison's rate, and PR 100+% makes a monster Immune to Poison (players and hirelings are normally limited to PR 75%, but can increase the limit to PR 95% with items and Antidote Potions). Lower Resist (LR) applies PR -%, although it's applied at 1/5 effectiveness against Immune to Poison monsters e.g. level 10 LR's PR -55% is reduced to PR -11% (55/5). PR -100% is the absolute minimum to which a target can be reduced, doubling the rate.

LR is applied when the target is poisoned, so it can be overwritten by another Curse immediately afterwards. Even if LR is required to break immunity (i.e. reducing PR 100+% to PR < 100%), once poison has been applied its rate and length remain unchanged, even if the monster displays 'Immune to Poison' again.



8. -% to Enemy Poison Resistance

-% to Enemy Poison Resistance (EPR) reduces a target's PR % like LR, but only if PR < 100% i.e. not Immune to Poison. However, unlike LR -% EPR also applies to length, effectively applying Poison Length Reduced (PLR) by -%.

Monsters have no PLR % so -% EPR increases poison length by the displayed amount, although -100% is the absolute minimum to which a target can be reduced, doubling the length. The only exceptions are the Ancients, whose equipment can spawn with PLR % suffixes. Talic and Korlic can spawn with PLR 100+%, which cannot be reduced by -% EPR. However, this doesn't result in effective immunity, since a frame of poison damage is still applied.

Players and hirelings are capped at PLR 75%, although the same difficulty penalties that apply to Resist % apply (-40% in Nightmare and -100% in Hell). PLR % will counter an opponent's -% EPR when duelling (and vice versa).

-% EPR is applied when the target is poisoned, like LR. Once poison has been applied its rate and length remain unchanged, so -% EPR can be removed afterwards without affecting damage or length.

Level 30 Poison Dagger (augmented by items, Venom and +% PSD) now applies 25,022-26,317 bit rate for 350 frames, resulting in 34,209-35,980 poison damage being applied over 14 seconds to a target with PR 0%. A combination of level 10 LR (PR -55%) and Trang-Oul's Wing Cantor Trophy's -25% EPR partial set bonus when equipping two other items from Trang-Oul's Avatar reduces that to PR -80%, increasing rate by 80%.

-25% EPR increases poison length by 25%, so 45,039-47,370 bit rate is applied for 437 (350 * 1.25) frames, resulting in 76,882-80,862 poison damage over 17.48 (437/25) seconds.



9. Calculation

This is a summary of all the individual steps in the calculation of poison damage outlined in the preceding sections. To express total damage in points applied over a length in seconds:


Points = [Bit Rate * Frames/256]

Seconds = Frames/25


Ideally damage is calculated measuring rate in bits and length in frames. It's also possible to calculate damage measuring rate in poison damage/second and length in seconds, which can be derived directly from displayed damage. However, the result will only be an approximation and rounding down should only be done at the end of the calculation for the maximum accuracy possible.


Rate = [([[B * S] * M] + [(I + [V*M]) * M]) * R]



[ ] Round down
B Skill rate
I Sum of item rates
V Venom rate
M Mastery (+X% to Poison Skill Damage) M = (100 + X)/100
S Synergy (+X% poison damage) S = (100 + X)/100
R Resistance R = (100 - X)/100
If P >= 100 and P - [L/5] < 100
then X = P - [L/5]
else R = 0
If P < 100
then X = Max(P - (L + E), -100)
P Poison Resist X% P = X
L Lower Resist (Poison Resist -X%) L = X
E -X% to Enemy Poison Resistance E = X


If a single item has both a prefix and a suffix applying poison damage, then the rates and lengths of both are simply added.
Gems, jewels and runes all count as separate items, even if they're socketed in a single item.
Item and Venom rate are only added to the skill rates of Poison Dagger and the javelins (but not the clouds) of Poison and Plague Javelins.
+% PSD isn't applied to item and Venom rate when applied by ranged attacks.



Frames = [F * R]



[ ] Round down
F Frames
Items F = sum of item lengths/number of items
Items + Skill F = (skill length + sum of item lengths)/number of items
Items + Venom F = Venom length
Skill + Venom F = skill length + Venom length

R Resistance R = (100 - X)/100
If P < 100
then X = Max(P - E, -100)
else F = 1
P Poison Length Reduced by X% P = X
E -X% to Enemy Poison Resistance E = X


Item or Venom lengths are only added to the skill lengths of Poison Dagger and the javelins (but not the clouds) of Poison and Plague Javelins.
There's a bug in the poison length calculation when using skills that apply a fraction of weapon damage, namely Multiple Shot, Strafe and Blade Sentinel, Fury and Shield. Two items will apply poison damage over the sum of their lengths, while three or more items will just apply poison damage over the longest length of any of those items.

lionheartthebrave
23-01-2009, 14:16
Wow, looks great, thanks for all the effort put into this

*suggests an addition to the stickies*

The Son Of Disaster
23-01-2009, 23:10
I second the "stickying" great job

One question about +%, say equipping Trangs Gloves + Bramble, does it add 75% to poison skill damage, or does it add 25% and then 50% or 50% then 25% or is there some kind of unseen nerf? my quesiton is pertaining to rabies if that helps. thanks man :D

BAMFSpecialOps
24-01-2009, 00:40
Bramble and Trang's Gloves will stack but it doesn't add up to 75% exactly iirc.

sirpoopsalot
24-01-2009, 06:30
*suggests an addition to the stickies*

Added to the appropriate section of the Guide & Knowledge Library thread that's already stickied in this forum, as well as the 'General Guides' section of the SPF FAQ.

Great job, onderduiker.

Sass
24-01-2009, 07:09
Very nice. Well written, very informative :thumbsup:

For example, a Toxic Small Charm applies 205 bit rate for 125 frames, which is displayed as 100 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds (205 * 125/256 over 125/25).
One question: Where is the 205 bit rate coming from / how can it be calculated. It was different for tons of different sources, so I was wondering about how it was found or if you have to take it from the displayed and work backward.

onderduiker
24-01-2009, 14:21
I second the "stickying" great job

One question about +%, say equipping Trangs Gloves + Bramble, does it add 75% to poison skill damage, or does it add 25% and then 50% or 50% then 25% or is there some kind of unseen nerf? my quesiton is pertaining to rabies if that helps. thanks man :D
Trang-Oul's Claws Heavy Bracers +25% to Poison Skill Damage and Bramble 'RalOhmSurEth' armour's +25-50% PSD are added together and then applied i.e. +50-75% PSD is applied at once. It's the same as any other stat, like Poison Resist +%. It applies to Rabies as you'd expect i.e. +50-75% PSD increases its rate by 50-75%. :)

I've confirmed this by testing: an Immune to Physical monster with PR 0% and Fire Resist 0%, modified to have 176 hit points and no damage regeneration, was killed by 100 poison damage applied with a combination of +25% PSD and +50% PSD, and then 1 fire damage (100 * (25 + 50)/100 = 175, 175 + 1 = 176).


Bramble and Trang's Gloves will stack but it doesn't add up to 75% exactly iirc.
If you can remember the source of your information I'd be interested, as it's possible there could be a glitch with a particular skill (or combination of skill, Venom and items). I haven't experienced it, though.


One question: Where is the 205 bit rate coming from / how can it be calculated. It was different for tons of different sources, so I was wondering about how it was found or if you have to take it from the displayed and work backward.
The values for bit rate for various sources can be found in the relevant .txt files extracted from the game's .mpq archive files. The Phrozen Keep is a site for modders, and you can search its Resources and read its File Guides to find out how to extract these files. I know a couple of people who have a link to download the extracted files, and I can send you a PM with that link if you're interested.


SOURCE

AutoMagic.txt Shrunken Heads
Gems.txt Gems and runes
MagicPrefix.txt Prefixes for magic, rare and crafted items
MagicSuffix.txt Suffixes for magic, rare and crafted items
Runes.txt Rune words
SetItems.txt Set items and their partial set bonuses
Sets.txt Complete set bonuses
Skills.txt Skills
UniqueItems.txt Unique items
I've posted a complete list of the bit rates for skills and items elsewhere: I can post the bit rates for skills in this thread, but the list of items is so long that I'd prefer to cut and paste the Wiki page I compiled to your Wiki (although I'm not sure where to put it).

Most of the information I've posted can be verified without modifying the game, but for some of the finer points it's necessary to do so (e.g. to eliminate variation in hit points and damage) by running single-player in -direct-txt mode. Again, if you are (or anybody else is) interested I can provide information. :)

BAMFSpecialOps
25-01-2009, 02:01
I could have been thinking about the glitch when poison damage gets doubled, like having Trang's Gloves on a kicker, applying Venom, then hitting something. The +% poison damage gets basically doubled but it ends up being like 49% instead of 50%...

onderduiker
25-01-2009, 16:06
I could have been thinking about the glitch when poison damage gets doubled, like having Trang's Gloves on a kicker, applying Venom, then hitting something. The +% poison damage gets basically doubled but it ends up being like 49% instead of 50%...
+25% to Poison Skill Damage would be applied to Venom when cast (just as Fire Mastery and +% to Fire Skill Damage are applied to Enchant when cast). Venom's poison damage rate is then added to any weapon-based attacks, and if those are mêlée attacks (like an Assassin's kicks) then +25% PSD is applied to that rate. However, since Venom's rate has been multiplied by 1.5625 (1.25 * 1.25) and you've said this glitch decreases the expected increase, I may have misunderstood.

I modified level 1 Venom to apply 100 Poison Damage Over 0.4 Seconds, then cast it while equipping two sources of +25% PSD (+50% PSD total). An Immune to Physical monster with PR 0% and Fire Resist 0%, modified to have 226 hit points and no damage regeneration, was killed by 1 fire damage after Venom had been applied with level 1 Dragon Talon (1 kick) while still equipping +50% PSD (100 * (100 + 25 + 25)/100 = 150, 150 * (100 + 25 + 25)/100 = 225, 225 + 1 = 226). I waited for Venom to expire before applying the fire damage.

This suggests that +% PSD is applied as expected. Assuming this was seen with Dragon Talon, is it possible that people have misinterpreted what they've seen? If people expected separate sources of +% PSD to be applied multiplicatively (e.g. (1 * (1 + 0.25)) * (1 + 0.5) = 1.875) rather than additively (e.g. 1 * (1 + 0.25 + 0.5) = 1.75), then the actual 75% increase in rate would be less than the expected 87.5% increase.

silospen
18-02-2009, 13:00
9. Calculation

This is a summary of all the individual steps in the calculation of poison damage outlined in the preceding sections. To express total damage in points applied over a length in seconds:


Points =

Seconds = Frames/25


Ideally damage is calculated measuring rate in bits and length in frames. It's also possible to calculate damage measuring rate in poison damage/second and length in seconds, which can be derived directly from displayed damage. However, the result will only be an approximation and rounding down should only be done at the end of the calculation for the maximum accuracy possible.


Rate = [([[B * S] * M] + [(I + [V*M]) * M]) * R]



[ ] Round down
B Skill rate
I Sum of item rates
V Venom rate
M Mastery (+X% to Poison Skill Damage) M = (100 + X)/100
S Synergy (+X% poison damage) S = (100 + X)/100
R Resistance R = (100 - X)/100
If P >= 100 and P - [L/5] < 100
then X = P - [L/5]
else R = 0
If P < 100
then X = Max(P - (L + E), -100)
P Poison Resist X% P = X
L Lower Resist (Poison Resist -X%) L = X
E -X% to Enemy Poison Resistance E = X


If a single item has both a prefix and a suffix applying poison damage, then the rates and lengths of both are simply added.
Gems, jewels and runes all count as separate items, even if they're socketed in a single item.
Item and Venom rate are only added to the skill rates of Poison Dagger and the javelins (but [B]not the clouds) of Poison and Plague Javelins.
+% PSD isn't applied to item and Venom rate when applied by ranged attacks.



Frames = [F * R]



[ ] Round down
F Frames
Items F = sum of item lengths/number of items
Items + Skill F = (skill length + sum of item lengths)/number of items
Items + Venom F = Venom length
Skill + Venom F = skill length + Venom length

R Resistance R = (100 - X)/100
If P < 100
then X = Max(P - E, -100)
else F = 1
P Poison Length Reduced by X% P = X
E -X% to Enemy Poison Resistance E = X



I believe the calculation for points of damage is correct without the round down. Something more like:

Points = [((Bit Rate * Frames/256) + 0.5)]


Rounding up, rather than flooring the value. This can be seen in terms of display at least, by looking at a chipped emerald. It has a bitrate of 34 over 75 frames. Using your formula, this gives 34 * 75 / 256 = 9.96 which when floored would be 9. It is displayed as 10 in game, so it seems like this value is a round, rather than a floor (an unusual thing indeed in D2!).

Otherwise it could be displays playing silly buggers with us all and the game doing something different underneath.

Thanks for the guide, it was useful.

onderduiker
18-02-2009, 21:48
I believe the calculation for points of damage is correct without the round down. Something more like:

Points = [((Bit Rate * Frames/256) + 0.5)]


Rounding up, rather than flooring the value. This can be seen in terms of display at least, by looking at a chipped emerald. It has a bitrate of 34 over 75 frames. Using your formula, this gives 34 * 75 / 256 = 9.96 which when floored would be 9. It is displayed as 10 in game, so it seems like this value is a round, rather than a floor (an unusual thing indeed in D2!).

Otherwise it could be displays playing silly buggers with us all and the game doing something different underneath.
Sorry, that formula was meant to express total poison damage in points after calculating with bit rates and frames for multiple items, possibly with a skill or Venom (or both).

Displayed poison damage for an individual item is rounded up or down to the nearest point according to your formula. However, actual damage is always rounded down to the nearest bit (1/256 hit point). A chipped Emerald actually does 2,550 (34 * 75) bits of damage, and although it's displayed as 10 Poison Damage Over 3 Seconds, it wouldn't kill a monster with 10 remaining hit points (10 * 256 = 2,560, 2,560 - 2,550 = 10 bits or 10/256 hit point remaining).

Displayed poison length for an individual item is also rounded up or down to the nearest second. Flawless Emerald length is displayed as 6 Seconds but is actually 6.08 seconds (or 152 frames), while perfect Emerald length is displayed as 7 Seconds but is actually 7.16 seconds (or 179 frames). However, every other item length is a multiple of 25 frames (1 second), so their displayed length in seconds is their actual length.

I haven't looked into all the discrepancies between displayed and actual poison damage and length, but I have thoroughly investigated actual poison damage and length. I compiled a list of the bit rates and frame lengths for items and skills for the Amazon Basin's Diablo II Wiki, but unfortunately that's down at the moment so I can't copy it across. However, I've also posted Poison damage calculator.xls (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713008), a Microsoft Excel worksheet, in the Diablo Files forum of the Diablo III Community Forums. Even if you know how to calculate poison damage, this should make it easier. :)

silospen
19-02-2009, 02:02
Sorry, that formula was meant to express total poison damage in points after calculating with bit rates and frames for multiple items, possibly with a skill or Venom (or both).

Displayed poison damage for an individual item is rounded up or down to the nearest point according to your formula. However, actual damage is always rounded down to the nearest bit (1/256 hit point). A chipped Emerald actually does 2,550 (34 * 75) bits of damage, and although it's displayed as 10 Poison Damage Over 3 Seconds, it wouldn't kill a monster with 10 remaining hit points (10 * 256 = 2,560, 2,560 - 2,550 = 10 bits or 10/256 hit point remaining).

Displayed poison length for an individual item is also rounded up or down to the nearest second. Flawless Emerald length is displayed as 6 Seconds but is actually 6.08 seconds (or 152 frames), while perfect Emerald length is displayed as 7 Seconds but is actually 7.16 seconds (or 179 frames). However, every other item length is a multiple of 25 frames (1 second), so their displayed length in seconds is their actual length.

I haven't looked into all the discrepancies between displayed and actual poison damage and length, but I have thoroughly investigated actual poison damage and length. I compiled a list of the bit rates and frame lengths for items and skills for the Amazon Basin's Diablo II Wiki, but unfortunately that's down at the moment so I can't copy it across. However, I've also posted Poison damage calculator.xls (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=713008), a Microsoft Excel worksheet, in the Diablo Files forum of the Diablo III Community Forums. Even if you know how to calculate poison damage, this should make it easier. :)

RTB warned me that you were a good tester :)

I needed the information for a muling application which I develop, GoMule (http://sourceforge.net/projects/gomule). I'm currently rewriting a lot of the back end and cumulative poison damage for items socketed with poison damage never worked correctly. Thanks to your formulae here, I've got that up and working, but as I say, I was experiencing a different rounding for the points of damage.

Now the question is, do I show the actual rate in game, or the display rate :)

fwing
19-02-2009, 11:38
very nice guide. makes me want to make a poison mancer hehe. one small suggestion would be to add 451 scs. though it seems like these kinds of things are taboo around here, realistically knowing about them makes you a more informed player whether you use them or not. and afaik it's only against the rules to price or trade them

onderduiker
19-02-2009, 19:25
Now the question is, do I show the actual rate in game, or the display rate :)
For individual items (even those socketed with Emeralds, Jewels or Tal) I'd stick with the displayed poison damage and length to avoid confusion. The game sums the bit rates and averages the frame lengths of the item and the contents of its sockets before calculating the displayed damage and length, rounding to the nearest point and second according to your formula. For example, a Venom 'TalDolMal' weapon displays 273 Poison Damage Over 6 Seconds, applying the combined bit rate of the rune word and Tal (312 + 154 = 466) over the average of their lengths ((175 + 125)/2 = 150).

Unfortunately the character screen isn't similarly accurate, and becomes increasingly unreliable as you add other poison damage sources with differing lengths...


very nice guide. makes me want to make a poison mancer hehe. one small suggestion would be to add 451 scs. though it seems like these kinds of things are taboo around here, realistically knowing about them makes you a more informed player whether you use them or not. and afaik it's only against the rules to price or trade them
Pestilent Small Charms of Anthrax (451 Poison Damage Over 12 Seconds) can only be dropped by Diablo, Nihlathak and Baal in Hell, hence their rarity (Small Charms have quality level (qlvl) 28 and the Pestilent prefix has affix level (alvl) 88, so according to Ruvanal's alvl calculation (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3873077&postcount=8) item level (ilvl) 94+ is required).


MONSTER ILVL PLAYERS PROBABILITY
SC PA PSCA
__________________________________________________ ________
Diablo 94 1 1:96 1:31,740 1:3,047,040
8 1:78 1:31,740 1:2,475,720
Nihlathak 95 1 1:88 1:33,396 1:2,938,848
8 1:61 1:33,396 1:2,037,156
Baal 99 1 1:96 1:33,396 1:3,206,016
8 1:78 1:33,396 1:2,604,888
These probabilities are not for first kills. Probabilities of Small Charm drops were derived from ATMA's (http://atma.diabloii.net/) drop calculator, and those of the affixes from this affix calculator (http://diablo3.ingame.de/spiel/expansion/itemdb/affix_chances_magic.php?lang=en&version=lod&patch=111&type=scha&item=Small+Charm&sortby=&mlvl=0&qlvl=28&ilvl=99). To put their rarity into perspective, all three bosses are more likely to drop Zod. :shocked:

However, any Small Charm they drop can be transmuted with 3 perfect gems in the Horadric Cube to re-roll its affixes. On average, every Pestilent Small Charm of Anthrax requires 31,739 or 33,395 re-rolls with 95,217 or 100,185 perfect gems.

fwing
19-02-2009, 21:56
Pestilent Small Charms of Anthrax (451 Poison Damage Over 12 Seconds) can only be dropped by Diablo, Nihlathak and Baal in Hell, hence their rarity (Small Charms have quality level (qlvl) 28 and the Pestilent prefix has affix level (alvl) 88, so according to Ruvanal's alvl calculation (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3873077&postcount=8) item level (ilvl) 94+ is required).


MONSTER ILVL PLAYERS PROBABILITY
SC PA PSCA
__________________________________________________ ________
Diablo 94 1 1:96 1:31,740 1:3,047,040
8 1:78 1:31,740 1:2,475,720
Nihlathak 95 1 1:88 1:33,396 1:2,938,848
8 1:61 1:33,396 1:2,037,156
Baal 99 1 1:96 1:33,396 1:3,206,016
8 1:78 1:33,396 1:2,604,888
These probabilities are not for first kills. Probabilities of Small Charm drops were derived from ATMA's (http://atma.diabloii.net/) drop calculator, and those of the affixes from this affix calculator (http://diablo3.ingame.de/spiel/expansion/itemdb/affix_chances_magic.php?lang=en&version=lod&patch=111&type=scha&item=Small+Charm&sortby=&mlvl=0&qlvl=28&ilvl=99). To put their rarity into perspective, all three bosses are more likely to drop Zod. :shocked:

However, any Small Charm they drop can be transmuted with 3 perfect gems in the Horadric Cube to re-roll its affixes. On average, every Pestilent Small Charm of Anthrax requires 31,739 or 33,395 re-rolls with 95,217 or 100,185 perfect gems.
that is freaking crazy man. lovely calculations. no wonder all 451 scs poof!

Cius
20-02-2009, 13:18
Great guide! just two questions.

Question 1: With the game averaging time but adding damage for different items can you give some practical examples of how to maximize poison damage?

For instance, Rabies might do its 12700 damage over 15.6 seconds. Can one add a small charm that does its 100 damage over 5 seconds and make the 12800 damage happen over 10.3 seconds effectively increasing your damage per frame almost 33%? If so getting small charms with as short a time application period as possible and no other source of poison damage besides rabies (or poison/plague jav, poison dagger, etc) could really boost your damage a lot per frame. If that works one could stack 20 small charms that apply minimal damage over 2 seconds and use rabies to apply its full damage over about 2.5 seconds!

Next question, does something like poison nova's duration every get effected by that averaging time effect as well or is spell damage different to item damage? I guess I am asking if you could make poison nova last longer by adding poison damage charms in your inventory as an example.

onderduiker
21-02-2009, 01:50
Question 1: With the game averaging time but adding damage for different items can you give some practical examples of how to maximize poison damage?
I included a practical example of how to maximise Poison Dagger's poison damage with items in the Skills and Items section, and went into more detail in the Poison Skills Information (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712653) thread posted in the Necromancer forum. If you want to maximise the total poison damage from items alone, then you need to equip as many items with high rates and long lengths as possible and avoid equipping those with short lengths (even if they have high rates). This usually boils down to equipping charms with both a poison damage prefix and suffix, the higher the better. :)

Next question, does something like poison nova's duration every get effected by that averaging time effect as well or is spell damage different to item damage?
Poison damage rate and length from items (and Venom) only affect the poison damage rate and length of Poison Dagger and the javelins of Poison and Plague Javelins (but not the clouds): they have no effect on the clouds of Poison and Plague Javelins, Poison Explosion and Nova, Poison Creeper... or Rabies. Although Rabies is initially applied with a weapon, the weapon's poison damage and that of Rabies are applied separately, and thus compete: whichever has the highest damage rate will be applied for its length.

Fully synergised level 30 Rabies displays 11,997-12,444 Poison Damage Over 15.6 Seconds, applying an approximate rate of 769-798 poison damage per second for 15.6 seconds. A Toxic Small Charm displays 100 Poison Damage Over 5 Seconds, applying an approximate rate of 20 poison damage per second for 5 seconds. Since 769-798 is much higher than 20, the rate and length of Rabies will be applied to that first target (with a single frame (1/25 second) of the Small Charm's rate).

A Treachery 'ShaelThulLem' armour's 25% Chance to Cast Level 15 Venom on Striking displays 305-325 Poison Damage Over 0.4 Second, applying an approximate rate of 762.5-812.5 poison damage per second for 0.4 second. Since this can be higher than that of Rabies (812.5 vs 798), sometimes Venom's rate and length will be applied to that first target. However, because Rabies periodically reapplies its rate for its remaining length, this will be applied after Venom's length has expired (if you watch carefully, you notice a brief flicker between Venom expiring and Rabies being reapplied).

See the Rabies Mechanics (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=717215) thread for more details. :)

Aien
27-02-2009, 21:18
Fantastic reference, this was just linked in the newcomer forum where I like to lurk.

Thanks for constructing it.