hell untwinked

[humbuggerer]

Although I'm a noob, I feel my post belongs here.

I am playing a TS/Dtail/LS sin and recently reached hell difficulty. And frankly, it's hell. I'm SP, with no access to items other than what I find, and have run straight through the game, more or less (level 69).

I have to say, hell is really hell. Do people actually play this way? Or is there some expectation of purchasing/muling specific items?

Seriously, this is ridiculous.

[Sass]

Some do enjoy the challenge of untwinked SP. Some even do it on /players8, on HC, full clears (no repeating the same level to lvl up or farm gear). Now that's intense.

[Tanksaabas]

If I were you I'd hop back to NM to make some /p8 Baal runs. Get to 75 or sth. and Hell is much easier. Although I see your are untwinked you may want to look into the SPF pat/mat compilation thread for some answers and inspiration.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

Your level will be a little low when entering hell, but also Dtail will lose most of its kick(pun intended) when dealing with all of the Fire Immunes in hell.

[humbuggerer]

Thanks for the replies..

It seems to me that a sin without really good equipment doesn't stand a chance in hell (um, pun not really intended), due to low life. I guess some other characters can be played without any particular equipment, but a sin.. I dunno. Has anyone played an untwinked sin all the way through hell?

I recently discovered that being low level relative to the monsters hurts my AR, so I guess I'll be running WSK a few times.. and hoping for a bartuc's..

[Sass]

In terms of playing untwinked, all the way to Matriarch, a trapper is easily the best at it. Since MA sins are melee ranged, they'll need good gear to hold up in close combat in hell. Untwinked makes it hard, but it isn't impossible. Like others have said, lvling and a bit of farming for gear would help.

[SteveIgnorant]

im working working on my first assassin, its untwinked SP HC single-pass and was /p8 until hell. ive only had a few problems with lightning immune mobs but its not so bad anymore with fireblast and blast fury. im level 78 and near the beginning of act 2.

to be honest its been very easy, but from what ive heard thats usually the case for trapsins

[BAMFSpecialOps]

Trappers have the ability to do nice damage while staying out of melee range and keeping crowds under control(mb/cos). Deciding to go through untwinked alone can be really hard for any melee character. Good luck to both of you

[SteveIgnorant]

well actually i just died an hour ago to a named LI immune beetle in act 2. was lvl 79; was a good run though

[Grumpy Old Wizard]

Thanks for the replies..

It seems to me that a sin without really good equipment doesn't stand a chance in hell (um, pun not really intended), due to low life. I guess some other characters can be played without any particular equipment, but a sin.. I dunno. Has anyone played an untwinked sin all the way through hell?

I recently discovered that being low level relative to the monsters hurts my AR, so I guess I'll be running WSK a few times.. and hoping for a bartuc's..

Martial artists are harder to play untwinked. Concentrate on getting some crushing blow. Look at some of the cheap rune words with crushing blow and do some boss runs. Goblin toess or Gores would help you out a lot. Guilliams (sp) Face helment. Flesh Ripper.

And I don't go to hell till level 75.

[MrBill]

Although I'm a noob, I feel my post belongs here.

I am playing a TS/Dtail/LS sin and recently reached hell difficulty. And frankly, it's hell. I'm SP, with no access to items other than what I find, and have run straight through the game, more or less (level 69).

I have to say, hell is really hell. Do people actually play this way? Or is there some expectation of purchasing/muling specific items?

Seriously, this is ridiculous.

I'd second you that it can get ridiculous in Hell, especially for an untwinked character and especially if you are melee.

In particular, did you notice how, the first time that you enter a new area, the game throws waves and waves of boss monsters with lethal combinations of special attributes and auras? ("Extra Strong, Extra Fast with {your choice} of Might and Fanaticism") will do nicely; merc goes down in one hit, you go down the next second. :surprise:

If you are a very experienced Diablo player, you have a highly developed innate sense of when you have to run away from a battle (before you get committed to it and you're surrounded! after that it's too late!) and you have above average luck, you can beat the game as an untwinked Assassin, although the 3 or 4 times when I've done that, it has been as a Trapper, not a kicker... I'd imagine that doing it as a melee 'Sin would be very challenging, especially around monsters like dolls and Burning Souls.

The trick to doing it is understanding what items that you can self-generate within a reasonable amount of time, without endless MF runs (which would be awkward to manage in Single-Player). Here's what I would suggest:

(1.) As many points in Shadow Master as you can possibly spare. You need a robust minion that can take the heat off of yourself and the merc.

(2.) An Act 2 Holy Freeze merc with as good a polearm and armor as you can get him. (The Strength Runeword -- Amn + Tir -- is a good option because of the Crushing Blow on it, until you can find a 5 socket polearm in Hell for Honor.) If you're playing SP off the Realms, this is really the best of a bunch of bad choices... slowing enemies is very important in Hell.

I would suggest an Act 2 Prayer merc, as this is a very effective hireling if used with the Insight Runeword, but the problem is that you can't make an Insight stick in Single Player. Why Blizzard has these kinds of stupid limitations to each play mode of the game, I can't say...

When I am playing untwinked, I like to Craft (orange items) either Hit Power, Safety or Blood body armor for Waheed, hoping for that lucky roll where he can get a Crafted armor with two sockets. You can fill these with either IAS / ED jewels (make sure to keep all 'good' jewels, I usually keep all yellow ones and jewels with 25% or more ED) or things like Ort or Ral runes for added resists. (Note: Having 75% or more resists will significantly extend Waheed's lifespan in Hell.)

Incidentally, the Strength Runeword should be considered as a serious option for your claws, unless you have happened upon some really good Rare ones (e.g. + to Assassin skills, etc. on the Rare), because 2-socket gray Assassin claws can spawn with good modifiers to begin with, and for a melee Assassin, two Strength claws would give you 50% Crushing Blow, which will hugely assist your killing speed in Hell.

Crude, cheap, but highly effective.

(3.) Both for you and your merc, the Lore Runeword (Ort + Sol) is a good choice for a hat -- +1 to skills, 30% Lightening Resist and a little PDR. If you find a good Rare Assassin-oriented circlet, by all means use that instead. You can also try your hand at Crafting a Blood hat for your merc, as the little bit of Deadly Strike and life leech in that will help him stay alive (not by much but it's better than nothing).

(4.) If you find anything with "+3 to Shadow Disciplines" on it, keep it and use it to pre-buff your Shadow Warrior / Shadow Master.

(5.) For body armor, you should be using either any good uniques or rares that you happen upon that have good built-in resists, until you get to Act 1 Hell. Then, shop Anya and Gheed obsessively, for that elusive 3-socket Artisan's (whatever... I prefer Light Plate but I'll take anything) of the Whale, to which you can add an Ort, Ral and Thul rune for resists.

If that doesn't work, you can try to make (in order of how hard it is to find the runes), the Stealth (Tal + Eth), Smoke (Nef + Lum), Lionheart (Hel + Lum + Fal) or Treachery (Shael + Thul + Lem) body armor Runewords. (Lionheart in particular is an "uber" armor for melee fighters.)

(6.) If you are willing to use a shield (which you should seriously consider unless you are going 2-handed), pick the Rhyme Runeword (Shael + Eth). You need "Cannot Be Frozen" as a melee fighter in Hell. Trust me on this one.

(7.) For everything else (belt, rings, amulets, gloves, boots), unless you find good uniques on your trip, your priorities should be (a) resists, (b) life, (c) IAS, (d) Attack Rating and basically anything that you're lacking in Hell. Make sure to keep any amulets with "+3 to Shadow Disciplines" so that you can prebuff your Shadow. For untwinked melee play, I prefer a good Crafted Blood belt for the (small amount of) Open Wounds that it can give you. For charms, unless you're lucky enough to find Assassin-specific grand charms with skill adders, I'd suggest charms with resists, life and Faster Hit Recovery.

Say, did I mention resists and life? Or was that life, and resists? <LOL> Did I mention that there are plenty of monsters in Hell that can dish out 1000+ points of damage, in one hit? I hope you get the idea.

(8.) Pick up every Rare item that drops as well as every blue or better Sorceress- or Necromancer-specific item, identify each, if they aren't worth keeping (99% of the time this will be the case), you can always sell them back at town for lots of money. This in turn will support your gambling habit, which you will do to gamble circlets, rings and amulets (maybe claws, as well). I know of people who have beaten the game -- and with weak characters like Paladins, for example -- just with stuff that they gambled for at Gheed's.

(9.) Always have Fade up when you are in Hell, for the resists and PDR that it gives you. And always use Cloak of Shadows, when faced with more than a couple of monsters (especially fast, hard-hitting ones like Frenzytaurs, Gloams or dolls).

(10.) Don't be afraid to run away from a dangerous pack; try to lure them off one by one, divide and conquer. In a similar vein, never run wildly ahead into an area that you haven't scouted out, first. Doing that in Hell Diablo under the 1.11 patch is guaranteed to get you killed, sooner or later. Also, if you are trying just to "beat the game", don't wander off into non-essential areas that are filled with potentially lethal monsters. (The Act 3 Swampy Pit, which can be crawling with Stygian Dolls in Hell, comes to mind.)

(11.) Be lucky. You'll need it, from time to time.

Cheers

Mr. Bill

[BIGeyedBUG]

There's lots of good advice in this thread already, and I'm probably too late anyway, so I just wanted to give props to the OP for trying to play an untwinked melee Assassin in Hell.

And yes, it is possible. Probably easier than a lot of other melee classes would have it, though still plenty challenging.

Good luck, have fun, and gamble gamble gamble. :)

[humbuggerer]

Thanks for the replies, especially MrBill.. sort of forgot this was here.

I think I screwed up this character by not maxing DS, and also, I just need to get used to playing against the really tough monsters.

Right now I'm leveling a kick/trapper that I think will be easier for me to play on hell... we'll see.

I hadn't been using SM at all, because I found it (her?) mostly annoying, but I'll try it out again. I defiinitely need to work out some decent merc gear..

If anyone is still listening, some questions:
1) I found the unique partizan, Pierre something. Would this be hell viable merc gear w/ 6% life leech circlet, possibly socketed w/ shael or ias jewel (which I do have)? Or is CB preferable for the merc? I have a few rare polearms laying around to choose from also..

2) MrBill mentioned the Rhyme runeword. I recently used a socketing quest on a chromatic shield of deflecting, and I like the 66% resist all.. but I ran into a cold-enchanted monster in hell w/ my MA sin, and it didn't go well since she had no CBF. Is rhyme really viable for hell w/ 25% res all? (I did get lucky and pop an Um, so I've got Duress mage plate). Is raven frost good for anything?

thanks for any help

[Bladewind]

If you got a Ravenfrost, by all means use it ! All melee and bow chars do. So you can keep on your 66% resist all shield.

[BIGeyedBUG]

I hadn't been using SM at all, because I found it (her?) mostly annoying, but I'll try it out again.

You might try the Shadow Warrior.

1) I found the unique partizan, Pierre something. Would this be hell viable merc gear w/ 6% life leech circlet, possibly socketed w/ shael or ias jewel (which I do have)? Or is CB preferable for the merc? I have a few rare polearms laying around to choose from also.. Pierre is ok untwinked--decent damage, ds, and the fhr helps Act II mercs quite a bit. But there's better. For instance you should be able to make Insight very easily, and something like Obedience isn't outside the realm of possibility later in the game.

CB is nice to have on your merc, but not essential.

2) MrBill mentioned the Rhyme runeword. I recently used a socketing quest on a chromatic shield of deflecting, and I like the 66% resist all.. but I ran into a cold-enchanted monster in hell w/ my MA sin, and it didn't go well since she had no CBF. Is rhyme really viable for hell w/ 25% res all? (I did get lucky and pop an Um, so I've got Duress mage plate). Is raven frost good for anything?Rhyme can be cool for untwinkers who aren't so lucky, but by all means, Raven Frost + chromatic shield of deflecting + Duress = awesome for an untwinked kicker/trapper.

[MercyfulFate]

MrBills post should be put into a guide a stickied.

Seriously, it's not only good advice for playing a sin but excellent advice for playing untwinked on any character.