A general note of disheartenment; I may just be bitter. [Archive]

Socialism

18-01-2009, 03:52

Lately, it seems that every time I read these forums, I end up shaking my head in disgust just looking at the titles/blurbs from the various threads.

a) "lol idk, wats the best char for mf ubar n rush?? must be cheap, fast, kill everythig in game ez, not hammerz tho, BORING. mebe baba????"

b) "I hav nigma, coh, eth hoz, botd, grief, infinity... lol plz halp make my char gg"

c) "k i saw sticky but none interesting lol. I cant use search cuz I don't got time to read thru all the crap lol, wats best sork for mf n solo baalz???"

These questions and the responses they generate just make things feel so D2JSP. Once upon a time, you couldn't hop onto Dii.net without reading something from an intelligent, thoughtful poster. Now it's far and few between as most threads seem to feature dupewords, half-wit responses, ENDLESS rehashing of the same lame builds, and people that just want everything without trying anything.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but there seems to be a distinct absence of creativity, exploration, or even appreciation in playing the game anymore. Read the sorceress/paladin forums lately? Whoa. When did that happen?

Was it so long ago that my beloved hardcore forum absolutely frowned upon the use of dupes and hacks and whatnot? Weren't we tired of all the jerks, dupers, cheaters, l33ters; wasn't it us vs. them?
But. Now, even I have an Enigma, Grief, and an Ethereal Cryptic Axe Infinity.

But. For some reason, I never seem to want to use those items; shortly after their acquisition, they sat on mules - and have done so since.

For some reason, I've been spending more and more time of late gaming with the good folks over at the Amazon Basin instead of op xbananax people - I think it's perhaps because more of their players seem to be on the same page as I am, while a lot of the xbananax crowd look to be on a completely different book.

I witnessed the gradual conversion of one of their ilk to the dark side recently... it was very depressing. Let me put it this way. Before he gamed with 'us', he didn't know what runes went into Enigma. I found that so refreshing. Now it's gone.

Has it been so long? Ugh.

Wasn't it just yesterday that we were proud to say that we had helped contribute to the 64-Gul Infinity, if not the only, then one of the only legitimate Infinity runewords in existence?

Didn't we once play in full games together -- or have people always been about solo MFing? I'm not saying MFing wasn't a big part "back then" - but that was stuff people liked to reserve for doing when nobody else was around to game with.

I could never figure out why people played multiplayer when all they did was solo.

Maybe I should take a "chill pill".

I need to get back to this job application.

Damn.

Kaleban

18-01-2009, 04:11

I can't help but think your last two responses in my threads contributed to this QQing, but whatever, it doesn't become you at all.

One thing you may not realize is that there are still people who are either new to the game, OR new to the most recent patch, who may have taken a long hiatus and are not familiar with synergies or some of the new content.

I for example, have yet to see DClone or even think about entering uber-Tristram.

Plus, the resurgence of interest in this game besides nostalgia could also be influenced by D3 ads and people wanting to take a new look at the series, or rehash the good ole days.

Problem is, we're not all elitist jerks like some, who think that struggling to make an Infinity or some of the other issues mentioned somehow make you better than the "n00bz."

Once upon a time, forums were places people could go for the free exchange of ideas, without people shooting them down for not being around as long or knowing everything. But I guess that time has passed, hasn't it?

So rather than shaking your head in disgust at the poor shmoes who are forced to choose between reading guides that are two years out of date or daring to ask the self proclaimed forum gods such as yourself for a bit of assistance, maybe you should put yourself in their shoes and realize that its a game, and if you're going to take it so personally, maybe you should stay at the Basin with the other elitists?

I joined the Banana guys to play with a friendly group who didn't TPPK me on sight, and whom I thought were welcoming of new and/or returning players. Besides the fact that the channel is nearly always empty, or everyone in it is afk if not Hell Baal running, its not exactly accessible to newbies.

I shake my head in disgust at the type of person who proffers help to those in need, and then puts conditions upon it because he or she can't stomach the idea of "lesser" people. Sad.

AgentMarth

18-01-2009, 05:22

Agree with some parts, disagree with others.

The jsp'ness is annoying, but is to be expected. We tend to joke with the leet speak, but its just that, joking. When people start to really typ lk ths, or talk like it seriously, is when I get annoyed by it. I don't want to talk to someone who can even bother to take the .5 seconds max it take to spell a word properly. However this applies in a broad sense. I mean come on, people have full on keyboards texting now, spell out "you" damnit.

The creativity and exploration part, well, of course noone does anymore, that is the downside to such an old game. And while I would maybe explore here and there, I don't wanna make a character that blows, or grush to 80 and stat and not have fun playing the char. Fire traps look cool, but due to bad coding, suck. Immo Zon, looks awesome, but yeah no.

Runewords - Yeah, you make it so they are actually legitimately obtainable by the casual player, then people have a point. But until then, I don't wanna be some loser who does nothing but forge rush all day for Gul's (not even always getting them) so I can have a "legit" Infinity. Good luck ever getting a self done "legit" auradin on Ladder. I normally don't say this, but, to me, those people are just lame, or just take the game WAY to seriously. I'm reminded of this quote "Even if you win first place at the special Olympics, you're still retarded".

The overpoweredness, well, frankly, some people, me being one of them, like it. I like slaughtering everything in my path. Rather then slowly hacking away at a monster just waiting for it to die. I'd rather port my Fana'd up, BO'd Skeletons onto an monster then blow the rest to dust due to a Conviction enhanced CE. Some people, don't though. As you know, I rarely walk the game anymore, the main reason being, is i've done it SO many times, that its just lost it appeal for the most part.

Some people just want to play a game for fun, not "work". Slaughtering everything in your path seems to for the majority = fun. While forge rushing/ struggling through untwinked, or other things that require alot of time = suckage.

About xbananax, it really isn't so friendly to newbies as said. Hell, I myself always found that if I didn't know you as a poster on the forums, I didn't care to game with you. The channel is empty alot, people are AFK (which does the channel NO good), or in private game with old friends or solo.

I think I can sum up most of my feelings in one word : Apathy.
I just don't care to much anymore. Be it about hackers, botters, dupers, elitists, noobs, whatever it may be. I play the game to have fun, the moment its starts becoming a chore, I will turn it off. And well, I kinda did. I think I have maybe logged on 3 times so far this year. Now every time I log on, I stare at my character wondering who to play, and just get stumped. It just took me longer then is shoulda to admit that the ladder reset killed nearly all my motivation to play the game. Sure, I still will play from time to time, but the days of playing 5+ hours a day are long gone. My last big D2 thrill was the CTA, which just seemed to be the climax of my D2 career.

Meh, i'm just complaining too.

Nimbostratus

18-01-2009, 07:35

I rarely visit the hardcore forum, but I've seen the same trends throughout the boards as a whole, and I hate it just as much. Any time somebody asks for opinions on builds, equipment, or even just strategy, it seems that nearly all replies center entirely on high-end runewords, Baal/Meph/pit running, and uber Tristram as if nothing else even exists in this game. People used to post "decent" gear setups and even checklists of the kinds of stats you're looking for on x character. The main things posted now are simply shopping lists of high rune items. It's as if there is no "good" anymore, but only the best and complete garbage. I'm not one of those who sees himself as "better" for not using obviously illegitimate gear. I simply enjoy the fact that I can do it on my own. What upsets me is how the absolute best and nigh unattainable (legitimately) gear is so eagerly flaunted as being the only acceptable choice, even to people completely new to the game.

MoUsE_WiZ

18-01-2009, 09:30

Once upon a time, forums were places people could go for the free exchange of ideas, without people shooting them down for not being around as long or knowing everything. But I guess that time has passed, hasn't it?
When was this?
I mean I haven't been on the interwebs from its inception, but for the last 14 years or so that I *have* been on them people have been flaming others...

So rather than shaking your head in disgust at the poor shmoes who are forced to choose between reading guides that are two years out of date or daring to ask the self proclaimed forum gods such as yourself for a bit of assistance
The guides may be two years out of date, 1.10 is over 5 years old. Unless the guide is on the ubers (which I think 2 years old would cover actually) there's nothing hugely important in a guide from 2 years ago that isn't going to be in a response now. Especially if the question is about what makes the best MFer rather than something highly technical.

To everybody else, obviously we're going to see a lot (proportionately) of "what makes the best MFer" posts... anybody who has a reasonable talent searching for is going to be able find exactly the information they're looking for and likely won't need to bother posting. Even the info for random odd builds is out there to be found for people who know how to search, and for some reason I suspect the number of people who know how to search has a strong correlation with the number of people who want to play random builds.

Unless of course you're looking for *real* exploration out of people, in which case they shouldn't be posting by definition, because getting information on their builds beforehand takes the fun out of it ~_~

Apathy.
QFT.

Weren't we tired of all the jerks, dupers, cheaters, l33ters; wasn't it us vs. them?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, or something to that extent.
I'm not one to complain too much about what one person or another does (complaining about one hack or another is a separate matter), but honestly I was surprised the other day when I saw your screenshot.
Not so much that you were using colours, but at the reaction you gave to the people who called you out on it. The fact that a long time respected forum member gets called out over something as borderline as colours should give you a hint that there is still an us against them attitude here. The fact that said member would even try to argue that colours are OK should give you a hint as to why it's a losing battle.

Not that I'm perfect either, and not that I have anything against you, especially not over something like coloured runes, just that this particular complaint of yours strikes me as a bit hypocritical.

or have people always been about solo MFing
Yes, always.
To the point where about half of my flist used to talk via game join notifications.

Socialism

18-01-2009, 10:08

Kaleban,

I made it clear that my disdain is aimed at those "who want everything without trying anything". I've never shot anyone down for not knowing something. (Cite a post. Any post. Back up your claims. Try.)

You somehow chose to ignore that. And the hours poured into helping people on these forums. Oh, wait, December 2008. I see. You are clearly justified in your personal insults and labeling me an elitist jerk who hates newbies. Nice.

Thanks for also ignoring the time and effort churned out to respond to YOUR thread (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708803), in an attempt to protect you from castigating misinformation. No, no, there's much more justification in being disrespectful, ungrateful, and belligerent.

I appreciate that you consider me a forum god and all, but really, I'm just not deserving of the title. I just like helping people. I'm also glad you reminded me that D2 is, in fact, a game. However. I don't like Master Zap as a weresorc; no, I like Sara as a person. I don't hold AgentMarth in any less regard for loving his tweaked out builds; no, Chase is my friend - even if he IS leet h4x.

I look back sadly at the slow-but-steady transition of our little community (myself included, as stated in post #1) over the years towards letting the terrorists win. But alas; 08/12, you've no idea what the xbananax atmosphere was like "back then" and lack the basic presence and analytical ability to even remotely qualify for commentary.

xbananax is a closed community. The only requisite for entrance is a small blurb indicating non-prick status. As indicated from your post, the 'system' is far from perfect.

There's no self-righteousness or delusions of superiority coming from me. No, that'd be hypocrisy. Really.

In fact, I didn't think I was 'better' than you until you posted enough to display insipid immaturity, disrespect, and hostility for no good reason. ...lulz u mad? You seem really serious about this; I guess you took something way too personally. Anyhow, I guess I just consider having the superhuman ability to "prevent seemingly limitless crap from spewing out my gullet when my e-peen feels impinged" a plus.

Sad.

Dear Chase,

My contention is that deviation from "HR gear" is nearly nonexistent in the stuff posted these days. People cry poverty because they only have three Ber runes and no Jah. Read any guide produced after 2004 - note the percentage that don't rely heavily on itamz more-than-likely acquired through duping, botting, or trading with their perpetrators.

Your take on runewords and condemnation of myself and legit gamers saddens me. I don't hellforge rush much, but I made classic characters that can -- so we could if we wanted to. Untwinking, teamwork, and reliance on one another is fun for me. These are the reasons I think people love the CTA. I don't find superchars fun, but I don't go calling you a greedy, gear-obsessed jerk just because I don't share your view.

But hey, keep gunning me for not deriving pleasure from picking up Zods and Jahs for perfect gems.

Regarding friendliness; I don't enter xbananax without hanging out to chat. Sometimes folks are afk, sometimes they're not, but I -always- make an effort. It is only through communication and interaction that multiplayer has any purpose. ...so wai so snobby?

Dear Nimbostratus,

Exactly. I have no animosity towards new folks, dupeword users, l33t gam3rs, or otherwise; I'm just reminiscent of times when communities weren't absolutely rife with them. I don't fault anyone for using killer gear; whatever's fun for the individual makes me happy.

It's when that ridiculous, illegitimately acquired gear suddenly becomes the status quo answer for everything, with any deviation from it being frowned upon, that I start vomiting all over myself (and the people next to me).

When someone in the sorceress forum asks about how they should start their new MF character, someone inevitably throws a: "yo just make a lite sorc with infinity" into the mix. That's so disheartening.

Socialism

18-01-2009, 11:20

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone, or something to that extent.Hi. Read the line immediately following what you're apparently commenting on.

There's no hypocrisy; I blatantly stated: I have an Enigma. A half-legit Infinity. Grief. And the means to acquire any item/rune in the game within hours. Is it more likely that I am:
a) criticizing you for not being as hyper legit as I am
or
b) commenting on the symptoms of a dying game, the gradually diluted and lowered expectations of the community (self included), and overall disillusionment

---
*HINT: It's probably not a).
---

Why do you choose to treat a nostalgic reminiscence of times when dupes/apathy wasn't this prevalent and when our xbananax community flourished - as an attack on the people I continue to happily associate with? Come now. You're smarter than that; you know me.

---
*HINT: Expressing general DISHEARTENMENT (kindly read subject of post) at the unhealthy state of D2, its disintegrating communities, and corrupt economy, using examples from these forums to bolster my lamentations, is not tantamount to holier-than-thouism.
---

I haven't slandered or accused anyone of anything - I certainly don't have the wherewithal to point fingers. Read title. DISHEARTENMENT. Not condemnation or castigation. Kindly read the lines instead of the spaces in between.

there is still an us against them attitude here.This, I concede. The fact that said member would even try to argue that colours are OK should give you a hint as to why it's a losing battle.This, I don't understand. It's okay to use a duped enigma acquired from TPPK botters, but it's not okay to create a client-side text effect? So I renamed Cain to Socialism. It's true.

Chastise me, but I maintain a differing perspective and cannot agree with your position. Mana potions being blue and runes having numbers provide me no advantage over anyone else.

If you were to argue that I'm exploiting colours to "see" items faster so I can grab them before you, well, forget you. You and everyone else that has ever gamed with me know that's not the case. I've said, ad nauseum, that I value the player more than the item. If you've ever been on that /f list, you'd know this.

Not that I'm perfect either, and not that I have anything against you, especially not over something like coloured runes, just that this particular complaint of yours strikes me as a bit hypocritical.
If anyone wants to continue witch hunting and deriving wild allegations stemming from nothing apparent in my text or intentionality, fine. Be my guest. Just don't come crying to me when karma shoves a telephone pole into you.

Relativity

18-01-2009, 11:45

Gah. So many big words and so long. Practicing for some essays?

Where's Captain Planet when you need him!

BoD Trader

18-01-2009, 12:28

I'm not getting into this argument because i don't like falling out. A friendly forum is a happy forum.

. I mean come on, people have full on keyboards texting now, spell out "you" damnit.

I am however guilty of this, but not because i'm lazy, stupid or incompetent it's just a matter of habbit.

Anyway I'm out.

Edit- Actually I am getting into this because I think you have stepped way out of line.

A) First of all this is a forum. Everyone is free to post what they want, so long as they follow the rules. So it's expected that people will miss stickies or mis-search or be lazy and ask questions that have been asked hundreds of times. You've used forums before, i'm fairly sure, so when these sort of things happen it doesnt give you the right to have a rant at EVERYONE. I mean I expect to see alot of threads by people with 1 posts or whatever asking about "uber diablo" or "how can i play this game better" because these people make these threads to learn first hand from the people who know this stuff. e.g YOU.

B) Let's take a peek at the first page of threads at the moment.

A general note of disheartenment; I may just be bitter.

Best All-Round MF Character?

the Hc what am I listeneing to thread (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Diablo 2 and Windows 7 Beta

The I found a WHAT?? thread: Ladder Season 5 (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Poll: I'll rush you with Surprising, Efficiency. (Multi-page thread 1 2 3)

Possible PK While Not Logged In Hack??? (Multi-page thread 1 2)

Banana members (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Go to first new post OP xbananax channel

Gauss members V2 (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

OT: While we wait for D3....and they kill off my Hellgate

AllPoints_InStr a workable Titan Melee sorc? (Multi-page thread 1 2 3)

New to hardcore, old to diablo2

HC Hammerdin Partner?

KTA - New run discussion (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

Charmless Duelers Signup/Details!

11,425 Soj Sold

charm talk (Multi-page thread 1 2)

Questions about playing untwinked party

East Side Untwinked "ESU" Round 2 (Multi-page thread 1 2 3 4 5 ... Last Page)

In sumation we have, 3 event dicussions, 3 harcore comunity discussions/signups, 1 crazy build suggestion, 1 anni excitement thread, the item shwoff thread, 3 OT threads, 1 worried about wierd pk thread, your rushing thread, and 4 newguy/ returning veteran/ what shud i make question threads. And i may have missed one or 2 but you get the feeling. From all the threads above only one of them is mentioned (pretty much by name) in your rant.

Let's talk about Kaleban's Best Mfer thread. To be honest i think you were just rude to him in HIS thread. There are other options for mf dominence other than hammerdin. And alot of fun alternatives for running alot of areas. You basically told him just make a hammerdin and don't ever think there could possibly be any fun ever for you. I think that's wrong. I've never ever made a hammerdin. And I have never had any problem in rushing mates or MFing. Ask Floyd about how much i do in the Gauss comunity without ever owning a hammerdin. He asked for alternatives and instead of using your knowledge as a senior member of the HC forums you just told him what he didnt want to hear.

To close because i havent got all day to counter-rant, I think just because you may have had a bad day doesnt give you the right to rant at anyone. This is still a forum at the end of the day. People are ALWAYS gonna post "noob" questions or missread stickies or be lazy with search function. It happens in all forums everywhere. Live with it. If you cant deal with that then maybe you should just not use any forums.

Dahkar

18-01-2009, 12:39

Mmmmm, what is your favourite kind of pie?

Socialism

18-01-2009, 13:08

1. If you take the time to read the post, it's possible that you will eventually decipher that it's not a rant.
2. You state: "this is a forum, everyone is free to post what they want"
3. You state: "doesn't give you the right to rant"
4. You clearly don't know me, my stance on hammerdins, mfing, etc; so what's your stake in even posting here? <3
5. If you want to supplant your own intelligence, go ahead, rant all you want. It'll be to deaf eyes (?).

Hi Dahkar!

BoD Trader

18-01-2009, 13:51

2. You state: "this is a forum, everyone is free to post what they want"
3. You state: "doesn't give you the right to rant"

Well actually what i said was everyone is free to post what they want within the rules.
1. Thou Shalt Not Flame or Troll

As far as I can see your just having a go at other foum memeber so really your not following the rules there are you.

4. You clearly don't know me, my stance on hammerdins, mfing, etc; so what's your stake in even posting here? <3

I didnt say anything about your stance on MFing. If you don't MF then why post in a thread by someone asking about MFing. I dont post in threads about baseball because i've never played the sport properly so surely the same applies here.

5. If you want to supplant your own intelligence, go ahead, rant all you want. It'll be to deaf eyes (?).

This is a personal attack. Deffinately not following the rules. I never once stooped to this level in my post. I don't need to prove my intelligence to you.

I'm not posting again in this thread so dont aim any more questionss at me because i wont answer them.

MoUsE_WiZ

18-01-2009, 13:55

Decided to do the short(er) version instead of the long one.

You missed the part that I found hypocritical. Not to say you didn't address it, because you did, just that you decided I was also talking about something else. That's probably mostly my fault, what I quoted and my first line were perhaps not the best choices.

It was not my intent to say you are being hypocritical for calling people cheaters while cheating yourself. At all. If I were to start *****ing about my flist hacking I think Jugz would be on the list well before anyone else.

The hypocracy (or maybe contradiction is a better word) comes in where you are lamenting the state of the community compared to what it used to be. In the thread with your screenshot you felt the need to argue about your use of coloured runes with people who are trying to preserve what the community used to be. If you loved the old community so much to the point of making this post mourning its slow death, why did you argue when people tried to preserve it?

Yes, I'm aware that being allowed to trade HRs on the forum seems silly if you can't trade for using colours. But consider that the people you were arguing with:
A) were not the ones trading HRs
B) are not the ones who get to make the rules
C) don't have actual evidence anywhere near as strong as your screenshot that the people trading HRs are trading dupewords

If you want to argue that it gave me an unfair advantage because I could "see" items faster and therefore took them before you could, well, up yours. You and everyone else that has ever gamed with me know I'd never deprive anyone of itams.
I know Socialism isn't a grabby sort of player, but the mod itself is hardly as benign as just making things more convenient in SP games. (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6928726&postcount=21)
I make you sad?
You make me sadder =(

Dahkar

18-01-2009, 14:20

Dahkar

18-01-2009, 14:26

Gah. So many big words and so long. Practicing for some essays?

Where's Captain Planet when you need him!

On second thought I think a more relevant topic was why is Captain Planet so focused on saving the environment? I mean really is pollution that bad, couldn't he be using his powers for a greater good, like saving you know HUMAN lives instead of a few trees. I personally feel that Captain Planet is a villain. He could be using his power for REAL good, however he chooses to waste it on being green.

Captain Planet is so selfish.

ZappaFan

18-01-2009, 16:20

Getting a little chippy in here.

Socialism

18-01-2009, 17:55

This is a personal attack. Deffinately not following the rules. I never once stooped to this level in my post. I don't need to prove my intelligence to you.
Haha. You're funny.

Not to say you didn't address it, because you did, just that you decided I was also talking about something else.Touche.
The hypocracy (or maybe contradiction is a better word) comes in where you are lamenting the state of the community compared to what it used to be. In the thread with your screenshot you felt the need to argue about your use of coloured runes with people who are trying to preserve what the community used to be. If you loved the old community so much to the point of making this post mourning its slow death, why did you argue when people tried to preserve it?
I've used colour for years - near when it was first introduced in the SP forums; this is not news and I've never made a secret of it. You don't seem to understand that I maintain that I've done nothing wrong -- I do not apologize for my choices. My use of colour is, in no way, shape, or form, detrimental to anyone else's gaming experience. If you can prove otherwise, okay, I'll buy into your notion that client-side colour mods have culminated in the downfall of the community. Until then, however, use of colour is still in line with the values of my perception of 'community'.

Anyhow.

What were you trying to get at? Are you saying that, because I use a colour mod, I don't have the right to talk about how things have changed -- because that'd be hypocritical or contradictory? Really?

Are you really picking this fight to argue and kibbitz about a post - bearing no animosity towards anyone (though somehow, text is ignored in favour of inapplicable argumentative rhetoric) - reminiscing with nostalgia about how things used to be? Is that what you're trying to police?

Sure, I miss the way things used to be. I didn't know this was such a problem for you. Would it make things better if I recanted what I typed, and wrote that I don't miss things? That playing D2 on USEast is way more awesome now compared to what it was like several years ago? Would that be more acceptable to you? Would that satisfy whatever you're trying to accomplish?
Yes, I'm aware that being allowed to trade HRs on the forum seems silly if you can't trade for using colours. But consider that the people you were arguing with:
A) were not the ones trading HRsYeah, right.
B) are not the ones who get to make the rulesThat's great; I've never had a problem with the rules. Zappa said: "No trade!" I said: "Ok!"
C) don't have actual evidence anywhere near as strong as your screenshot that the people trading HRs are trading dupewordsOkay, so the guy selling Zod runes for X amount of currency Y in multiples of 40 deserves the benefit of the doubt because there's no "actual" evidence of duping. Fine, no problem.

However. That also approaches from an angle that assumes my use of a colour mod needs to be covered up and hidden, and that a screenshot provides "evidence" that "proves" I'm using it. That might be the case if I were trying to hide something, but it is not. This particular aspect of the conversation, however, is outside the scope of this little thread, but I'd be glad to debate it with you in another thread if you'd like. :>
I make you sad?
You make me sadder =(No, you! :<

Heya! How's life?Is ok. What are you up to?? Wherefore art thou, O Dahkario, Dahkario?

I mean really is pollution that bad, couldn't he be using his powers for a greater good, like saving you know HUMAN lives instead of a few trees.If forced to choose between a person and a dog, I'd kill the person (unless hot). The dog's busy being a dog; even if he bites, it's probably because of something you did. The person has/will probably try to screw you over at some point, somewhere, somehow. (Ah, to perpetuate the not-so-subtle mysteries and ironies of the human condition!)

ZappaFan

18-01-2009, 18:58

I've used colour for years - near when it was first introduced in the SP forums; this is not news and I've never made a secret of it. You don't seem to understand that I maintain that I've done nothing wrong -- I do not apologize for my choices. My use of colour is, in no way, shape, or form, detrimental to anyone else's gaming experience. If you can prove otherwise, okay, I'll buy into your notion that client-side colour mods have culminated in the downfall of the community. Until then, however, use of colour is still in line with the values of my perception of 'community'.

You're using the same line of reasoning people use when justifying the use of maphack. It only affects the game you're playing in, of course. But it clearly gives you an advantage playing the game over people that do not have the benefit of their rune drops being displayed in something other than white. It allows you to play the game faster than the person that takes the time to carefully sift through all the white crap that's on the ground to make sure a rune or some other valuable thing isn't lost in the rubble.

And when you represent an opposing view with such hyperbole (culminating in the downfall of the community? who said that?) it really makes your post seem rather disingenuous.

Hp_Sauce

18-01-2009, 19:28

YogiRat

18-01-2009, 20:51

But-but, what about this??
Mmmmm, what is your favourite kind of pie?

My favorite pie is cheesecake. Why don't they call it cheese pie?

Kaleban

18-01-2009, 22:49

On second thought I think a more relevant topic was why is Captain Planet so focused on saving the environment? I mean really is pollution that bad, couldn't he be using his powers for a greater good, like saving you know HUMAN lives instead of a few trees. I personally feel that Captain Planet is a villain. He could be using his power for REAL good, however he chooses to waste it on being green.

Captain Planet is so selfish.

I lol'd hehe.

But taking this post in a serious context for a moment, a few trees are more valuable than human life. Why you ask? I'll tell you.

It takes years and years for a tree to grow to the age where it is most efficiently producing oxygen, and large enough to efficiently reproduce in the surrounding area.

With humans, reproduction is easy and generally enjoyable lol. Some species procreate for pleasure as well, such as dolphins, but for most its a survival instinct. However, most species on this planet fit into a niche with something they eat, and something that eats them. In general they have a few defenses against their predator(s), but usually something can and does get them, but in a balanced way that preserves the environment.

Humanity's only predator is disease, whether bacterial or viral, and natural disasters but those are out as predators because they affect every species in the same way. The difference though is that with our ability to think and reason, we are constantly fighting off disease, sometimes eradicating it entirely, but in the fight only cause stronger diseases to develop. Rather than accept our place in the world and attempt to achieve a natural balance, we arrogantly assume kingship of the land and believe ourselves greater than we are.

So in the scope of the environment, humanity is incredibly arrogant and ignorant. A guy like Captain Planet, I think is actually needed in the real world to show us the true nature of our existence. Its easy to make a baby, hell our fascination with procreation is making it easier for people from their teens to their geriatric years to conceive, rather than what nature used to intend with puberty and menopause, thank you HGH for that. But its hard to maintain the environment, on Mother Nature's side because of our meddling, and on our side because we don't understand the complexities of how things work.

In my estimation, Captain Planet is a saint, and the entire human race shares in the villainy of environmental destruction. While there may be people (and always will be) who personify such things, like Enron execs, war criminals and such, the general complacency of the human race is the true nature of evil. Those who allow such things to continue despite having the power or resources to stop it. Hence, we're all villains in the destruction of the environment.

Socialism

19-01-2009, 00:10

You're using the same line of reasoning people use when justifying the use of maphack. It only affects the game you're playing in, of course. But it clearly gives you an advantage playing the game over people that do not have the benefit of their rune drops being displayed in something other than white. It allows you to play the game faster than the person that takes the time to carefully sift through all the white crap that's on the ground to make sure a rune or some other valuable thing isn't lost in the rubble.

And when you represent an opposing view with such hyperbole (culminating in the downfall of the community? who said that?) it really makes your post seem rather disingenuous.Does your statement imply the logical fallacy of:
-- if Colour:Reason = Maphack:Reason, then Colour = Maphack ?

Actually, nevermind. It doesn't matter. Nothing you write will change my point of view, nothing I write will change your point of view. If you so desperately need to believe that I'm using this colour mod so I can make sure I get itams you can, that's your prerogative. I've no motivation left to argue with you on this belabored subject. ****, it's even tilted to give us seasons.How is that part of a 'good job' ? Frickin 4 feet of snow in my driveway.

But-but, what about this??

My favorite pie is cheesecake. Why don't they call it cheese pie?
Same reason they don't call a zebra a fax machine?

Kaleban

19-01-2009, 00:34

Kaleban,

I made it clear that my disdain is aimed at those "who want everything without trying anything". I've never shot anyone down for not knowing something. (Cite a post. Any post. Back up your claims. Try.)

You somehow chose to ignore that. And the hours poured into helping people on these forums. Oh, wait, December 2008. I see. You are clearly justified in your personal insults and labeling me an elitist jerk who hates newbies. Nice.

Thanks for also ignoring the time and effort churned out to respond to YOUR thread (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=708803), in an attempt to protect you from castigating misinformation. No, no, there's much more justification in being disrespectful, ungrateful, and belligerent.

I appreciate that you consider me a forum god and all, but really, I'm just not deserving of the title. I just like helping people. I'm also glad you reminded me that D2 is, in fact, a game. However. I don't like Master Zap as a weresorc; no, I like Sara as a person. I don't hold AgentMarth in any less regard for loving his tweaked out builds; no, Chase is my friend - even if he IS leet h4x.

I look back sadly at the slow-but-steady transition of our little community (myself included, as stated in post #1) over the years towards letting the terrorists win. But alas; 08/12, you've no idea what the xbananax atmosphere was like "back then" and lack the basic presence and analytical ability to even remotely qualify for commentary.

xbananax is a closed community. The only requisite for entrance is a small blurb indicating non-prick status. As indicated from your post, the 'system' is far from perfect.

There's no self-righteousness or delusions of superiority coming from me. No, that'd be hypocrisy. Really.

In fact, I didn't think I was 'better' than you until you posted enough to display insipid immaturity, disrespect, and hostility for no good reason. ...lulz u mad? You seem really serious about this; I guess you took something way too personally. Anyhow, I guess I just consider having the superhuman ability to "prevent seemingly limitless crap from spewing out my gullet when my e-peen feels impinged" a plus.

Sad.

This: You seem to want your cake and everyone else's too. Suck it up, forget about having fun or actually playing the game (because, you know, you don't have time to play the game), and just make yourself a Hammerdin already.

Pretty much is the answer to your post.

Regardless of my registration date here, I've played this game with breaks in between since it came out. However, instead of wagging my "e-peen" around as you put it, given my chronological superiority, I recognise that I am still the n00b in many cases which is why I asked for help/assistance from a community bored and jaded from vomit-inducing MF runs and characters.

As most of your responses have been "read my text" to which I already had and then quoted you so you could see your folly, I at no time showed disrespect or hostility, at least, given the context of nearly all your responses (which i can quote again if you're a bit fuzzy on rememberizing) except for my one insult. WHICH was in the heat of the moment and I apologize, but its difficult for most to sit there and read sarcastic responses with no real help to an earnest question.

It has nothing to do with e-peen wagging, something you seem to be obsessing about...

Socialism

19-01-2009, 00:40

Eh, whatever makes you happy.

I'm done here.

MoUsE_WiZ

19-01-2009, 01:35

You don't seem to understand that I maintain that I've done nothing wrong.
Whether or not you've done anything "wrong" is beside the point.
Zero tolerance of cheating is exactly that; zero tolerance. You are using a cheat, even if you are gaining no benefit from it you are still using it; if I were to run around TPPKing fallen in A1 with a level 1 zon and her javs there would be nothing really wrong with it at all - especially if I were doing it manually - but I'd still be using TPPK.

That you are using it is not quite the point, but it is close. As mentioned multiple times, on an individual basis I really don't care much about who does what on b.net. I never have.

Your reaction to the people who called you out for using it is the point. If you miss a zero tolerance community, don't get so defensive when people call you out for breaking that zero tolerance policy.

Yeah, right.That's great; I've never had a problem with the rules. Zappa said: "No trade!" I said: "Ok!"
"Oh hey, if that one screams "h4x!", this one should really blow your mind" - needless antagonism.
"OMG THE SLIPPERY SLOPE...Remedial and silly." - sarcastic dismissal of the concept of zero tolerance
"if you've ever traded with anyone you "didn't know intimately" using the trade window on battle.net, you've likely exposed yourself to all kinds of third-party-program-acquired itams" - redirecting the blame
"Frankly, I'm a tad insulted. Since I'm getting somewhat frustrated (and disgusted) with the inherent hypocrisy I see in the argument, I'm going to stop typing." - one more shot at the concept of zero tolerance, take ball, go home

Don't say you you just said "OK!" and left it at that.

That also approaches from an angle that assumes my use of a colour mod needs to be covered up and hidden
Close.
It assumes that your use of a colour mod does not need to be advertised then defended because doing so flies in the face of the community you seem to miss. Covered up and hidden though? As mentioned, most people couldn't care less if you're using it or not. The people who do care aren't people you're playing with, so why do you care that they care?

---

As for your questions why I'm picking a fight/what my intent is:
First, I'm not picking a fight, I'm engaged in a conversation. My intent is simply to call what appears to me as a spade a spade, and secondly to kill time/avoid writing about why it is possible that Tommy Vladek could survive if he received a brain transplant from another dying child in my easy-A-201-metaphysics course.

So far I've been successful, I could've written that 1 page paper like 10 times by now.

Socialism

19-01-2009, 02:52

Hey, whatever makes you happy, man. Enjoy your paper.

MrBill

19-01-2009, 03:37

:troll:

2 much 1337 spk here d00dz? OMFG ROFLMAO hehe!

I'm not going to feed the monkey much more here, except to ask Mr. Socialism to say "hi" to my former friends at the Amazon Basin on my behalf.

I had many happy days of co-op D2 playing with them, and would have hung around that guild forever, but (unlike Zappafan) their forum moderators have a huge God complex, they have a very bad habit of arbitrarily censoring posts on the most absurdly subjective grounds... then, when you try to post saying "be aware, I can't say any more about this topic because they censored my last posting", they censor that, too. (After they banned me for complaining too much about this small-time Stalinism to the forum moderators, they started censoring my wife, when she tried to post comments like "Mr. Bill would respond to this, but he can't, because he got kicked out." Ultimately my wife and my daughter both quit. How that chain of events helps a co-operative gaming guild, I'm at a loss to explain.)

In case you're wondering, the thing that they originally "redacted" was a comment to the effect that "I traded for this Runeword, I have no idea if the runes in it are dupes or not, doesn't matter to me one way or the other, it's just a game". They would have been fully within their rights to say something back like "we don't approve of trading for possibly duped runes" -- fine, then they're stating an "official" opinion. Instead, like they do for almost everything that they disagree with, they chose to simply arbitrarily censor the posting with no explanation to anyone reading the AB forums as to what kind of discourse had actually taken place. To me, and anyone who understands what the words "respect for other opinions" mean, this kind of thing is totally unacceptable.

It was a performance worthy of Pravda or the Chinese People's Daily, methinks. I never broke any of their gaming rules, and forwarded dozens of people who I met on the Realms, to the Amazon Basin; I got thrown out merely because of disputes about censorship. It speaks volumes about what really motivates their leadership... which is really too bad because otherwise they're a great option if you want to avoid TPPKers. I'd love to give them a full recommendation but I can't, if they have so little respect for diversity of opinion on a subject as unimportant as "is this way of playing D2 'legit' or not", they are sending out a very unfortunate message, IMO.

Of course it's just my opinion, isn't it? Hats off to Zappa for letting me say it.

:thankyou:

Mr. Bill

Tai.

19-01-2009, 09:03

Wow.

There are definitely some people in here who need to chill. I'd like to begin by asking why the colour mod was brought up yet again guys, you know better Mousey. I'm in no way picking sides in this debate but you know it serves no purpose other then to sow discord. Shon is not abusing any advantage from the mod in a way that impacts the gaming of another Banana member, yes it is a bit unnecessary for it to be brought to such forcible attention but you are in no way helping the cause by dragging it up again. Every post regarding the subject reaches identical conclusions, nothing is achieved and a breach is created between friends. It has certainly not reached the levels of the old PK debates, but I feel when we start debating the relative merits of trading for dupes versus colour mod it's time to call it a day.

On to more pressing matters, the forum has reached a certain level of inbred uselessness. You all know how much I love this forum and the community found within, but all we see these days are questions that could be answered through the search feature and community postings by regulars. We effectively serve no function on this forum except as search monkeys for our fellow posters (of course there are some exceptions, but they are few and far between) and I feel that through the course of acknowledging this it is only natural to feel a sense of loss.

I currently have a compilation of guides saved on my laptop (The 3 prime Skellimancer variants, My perfect Javazon complete wit leveling and midrange gear, The Blizzard sorc build I keep pushing or safety etc.) but have no desire to post them on the forum, which was obviously the original purpose of writing them. If I were to post my builds and maybe compile a comprehensive guide to CTA in accordance with Shon I would effectively be contained as a Diablo 2 entity within this forum without my presence being necessary. That is a startling and somewhat depressing realization for someone who has spent as much time on this forum as I have.

The sense of comradery and community that once pervaded the Banana channel is smoldering. The ideals we once espoused have been shoved to the rear of our minds. For me at least, the game that brought us together has lost its spark in the face of expediency. I acknowledge that for some the fun of this game is in crushing all opposition, and don't get me wrong I have indulged in more than a bit in my day, but I can empathize with Shaharris when he laments what we have lost. There is a reason why I only fire up Diablo 2 for CTA runs - we have reached a point where nothing in this game has meaning. The community is constantly AFK, the ladder is well beyond the point of chasing and even the items are meaningless. Lionheart merits no consideration because CoH is so easy to attain. Who needs to roll a Sanctuary when you can toss on a Stormshield and make up the resistance through life/res all charms? Frankly, it disgusts me that overpowered has become a substitute for well conceived, but I'm a bit far afield now I feel.

The game I loved and feel most of us loved is dead. Sure, the flesh remains but the spirit has moved on. It is not wrong to mourn the spirit. It is not wrong to wish its return.

All that being said, Shaharris quit being such a prick to the new guys. They may not see the beauty in Durable or the Banana channel today, but they never will if they are put off by elitism or a condescending nature, even if it does originate in fatalism rather than animosity.

Cheers
-Tai

ZappaFan

19-01-2009, 13:04

Does your statement imply the logical fallacy of:
-- if Colour:Reason = Maphack:Reason, then Colour = Maphack ?

Actually, nevermind. It doesn't matter. Nothing you write will change my point of view, nothing I write will change your point of view. If you so desperately need to believe that I'm using this colour mod so I can make sure I get itams you can, that's your prerogative. I've no motivation left to argue with you on this belabored subject.

I don't have to desperately believe anything. The rules for using the trading forums are quite simple and clear - we do not even try to differentiate between good cheats and bad cheats.

Your motivation for using the color mod is really irrelevant. I'm merely pointing out the fallacy in your justification of it. You keep saying it doesn't give you any advantage over any other player, when it fact it does give you an advantage over every other player in our trading forum that's not using it. This game is about collecting stuff. And when it comes to collecting stuff to trade, a mod that changes the color scheme of items on the ground from what Blizzard intended gives you an advantage over people that are stuck with the "so much stuff is white or blue" color scheme.

rynke

19-01-2009, 14:40

Haven't read all posts, and don't intend too, because ill be on my way home soon.

But for the people who thinks all the overpowered runewords are lame - 1 word: Classic.

i just switched from LoD to CL, because now every character ain't overpoweredx2k, now you don't know every item you find before you've even identified it. The good items are rare items, which actually makes it exciting to magicfind again.

and this was just a suggestion to the ppl being tired of the overpowered chars in lod :)

There's ONE overpowered char in classic, that's the hammerdin, but he can't tele. So it's more balanced imo.

TheDarkSide

20-01-2009, 09:18

Im at work and read all the posts .. Interesting conversation but whats the point of all this again ?

Baranor

20-01-2009, 10:49

I have not bothered to read the entire thread. Why not? Not because I don't respect you or any of the others who have written their replies here, but because... I';ve been here since oh... 2000-ish. I bought Diablo II and got into this forum. I've seen it die and come alive a few times in a row now. I've seen what you have written a dozen times or so, well, no, actualy, I've seen it a dozen times per subforum. This is the way internet forums work. This is the way the Diablo Forum works. This is the way Diablo works.

Oh, and if you cheat, you should bust your modem with a hammer and eat it. You've been here long enough to know what we think about cheaters.

Master Zap

20-01-2009, 19:19

Im at work and read all the posts .. Interesting conversation but whats the point of all this again ?

That's a good question indeed and one Ive been thinking about the last few days since this thread popped up, and purposely avoided adding my .02 because I dont think anygood can come of it.

One morning Shon woke up ,and even though the status of the realms has not changed in years, he suddenly decided to indulge in a self serving hypocritical rant about the banes of bnet while deriding the "community" that is known as op xbananax. Somehow in his wisdom he decides that the community he's played a large part in over the course of several years would be better served without his presence. This is far from true and I miss my witty, flirtatious friend from the channel.

With respect to the AB, its alluded that somehow the AB is the sanctity of gaming morality and "legitness". I will concede that it is to a large degree an improvement, at least compared to jsp ilk, but it's hardly different then diii. If you want to be a rat jumping ship for greener pastures, then I'm sorry to be the one to inform you that your going to be disappointed. I regularly see theoretical rune recommendations along with questions that could be revealed by the search function.

Some quick top threads for i.e. purposes
"whats the best smiter wep , what about pi's for smiters"
Dont miss the ebugging Oath thread for the indestructible mod for making a more damaging kingslayer , or the guy mod'ing his game files to make the Plague runeword, which requires the "cham" rune.

swing over to the pvp section and
"See, I've been told that Grief is better than a Eth Breath of the Dying in WW PvP cases. I have a 5os Colossus Blade and was wondering if that'd be better for my PvP Barb than my eBotd CB."

"Hey everyone, with the new ladder now out I was thinking about remaking a PVP Necro

GEAR:Head: Rare Circlet - +2 necro, 20% FCR, Life, mana, res (um)
Amulet: Rare - +2 necro, 10% FCR, mana, res, str
Body: Enigma - +2 all, tele, str, 45% FR/W (mage plate)
Gloves: Frosties - mana
Belt: Arachnid's - +1 all, 20% FCR, mana
Boots: Caster Craft - 30% FR/W, res, mana, str
Ring: SOJ - +1 all, mana
Ring: SOJ - +1 all, mana
Weapon: HOTO - +3 all, 40% FCR, res
Shield: Spirit - +2 all, 35% FCR, 55% FHR (monarch)
Switch: CTA - X/6 (crystal sword) and Spirit (monarch)
Anni, Torch, X9 P&B GC with life or FHR, X10 SC with life, mana, and res"

"A necro without teleport is useless in pvp. "

Without teleport you won't be able to land a single spirit and you won't be able to escape enemy attacks. Even poison necs use nigma over bramble.

There's even a bearsorc thread there , the build you love to hate. (which I've done several versions for trial and error and refinement for exploratory purposes and mass mayhem)

my stance on theoretical runes?

These are easily available for trade if you allow yourself to use them. Find one eth cv and you can trade that for 2hr's. This makes the top runewords available to even the most casual player for good or for bad. I would ideally prefer that the duping situation was fixed, but alas I cant fix the realms.
I do take pride in my legit Death that I cubed some forge guls to make. I dont delude myself in thinking a Bear sorc is viable to any self finding legit player. I have fun playing both untwinked chars (ive done many many of these) and the ZOMG pwn builds (Ive seriously tried nearly all possible characters builds over the years)

I'm still having fun trying new variations out. Why just yesterday I was trying to balance a holybolt pally with another attack for uber trist viability. Did you know that the waves Meph spawns are all undead, and that a fully sygergised holybolt will do 10K damage with +items. The foh section will nuke the waves with 3K holybolts blasts.

Anyhow your post smells like D2 burnout and the way your going about it is needlessly antagonistic. I truly hope this day find you well and that maybe some perspective is in order.

~Sara

ps My favorite kind of pie is Apple.

Banana Cream pie ranks up there too.

+1 :thumbup:
Oh, and if you cheat, you should bust your modem with a hammer and eat it. You've been here long enough to know what we think about cheaters.

The game I loved and feel most of us loved is dead. Sure, the flesh remains but the spirit has moved on. It is not wrong to mourn the spirit. It is not wrong to wish its return.

All that being said, Shaharris quit being such a prick to the new guys. They may not see the beauty in Durable or the Banana channel today, but they never will if they are put off by elitism or a condescending nature, even if it does originate in fatalism rather than animosity.
Well said Tai