View Full Version : Best All-Round MF Character?
Simple question, probably difficult to answer, but there it is lol.
Assume whatever character it is has teleport, either from Enigma or charged items.
In that case, which class has the best potential for Magic Find, long run and end game stuff? Since this is HC, survivability is paramount, including through lag spikes, so whichever character is deemed "Master MFer" it will probably have max block, so dexterity is not an issue.
I can tell there are probably several contenders, such as Hammerdins, Skelliemancers for area clears, Sins with their AI crowd control and such. I'm just wondering if there's a consensus as to which class has the best potential for generating e-wealth lol.
The summon necro is probably the best build for generating wealth. It's cheap to build, the items for it are cheap and you can drive them through 95% of the game without troubles.
Relativity
18-01-2009, 00:17
End game stuff?
This season I built a blizz sorc specifically with baal runs in mind. I counted on a strong merc to deal with immunities, but everything else died very quickly.
The most obvious though is the hammerdin as you said. They can solo any area in the game and damn quickly too.
Skellimancers is my least favorite choice, unless you have beast/might/etc they are too slow for my liking.
Cheap: Meteorb
Middle: Blizz
Expensive: Hammers/Lightning sorc(infinity merc)
How about this then? A character that can solo these things, but contributes well to party play:
Running other characters
MF both areas and bosses
Key running
DClone/Uber killing
These four are pretty much the end game content right? Hell Baal runs obviously, key running for Uber Tristram, and then Uber Tristram itself. And taking people along lol.
I've seen Hammerdins do it, and a few sorcs, but no one else really. I guess what I really want is a character that can do it all, with both relatively good efficiency and excellent survivability, since I don't have a lot of time to spend playing computer games or rebuilding high levels. Optimization you see! ;)
So if Lamerdin is the way to go, then so be it, as long as he's the best class for the above job.
Socialism
18-01-2009, 02:39
Hammerdins are cheap because it's easier to get an Enigma than it is to get a Vex rune.
You seem to want your cake and everyone else's too. Suck it up, forget about having fun or actually playing the game (because, you know, you don't have time to play the game), and just make yourself a Hammerdin already.
Lol. Thats not what I meant, hope you're not messing with me.
I tend to give stuff away once I get to a certain point. Back before 1.10 came out, this was a long time ago hehe, I usually only ran one or two characters, the primary being an FO sorc much like your guides spell out. I'd run several MF runs, then make a Normal Free game and just drop it.
But with the advent of all these high power runewords, and which I hope to take advantage of at some point, I'm looking into alternative characters that are better built than my crude sorc lol.
The idea of "telebombing" with a minion stack as well as the increased survival chances with a Summon Necro appeals to me, plus I never could get the hang of aiming hammers like so many people out there are really good at. Plus when running or partied with other characters, I like the idea that I can "protect" them with minions and curses. That's kind of why my primary listed reason was running others.
I dunno if your tone is mocking or serious, but I do enjoy playing the game, I just don't have lots of time to dedicate to making multiple Guardians is all. Thanks.
Socialism
18-01-2009, 04:00
Well, to be honest, it's a bit of mockery coupled with general disdain for MFing. It seems like all anyone ever wants is that ubar perfect character. It's nothing against you personally, and I'm sure you have your reasons for asking the question that, for me, actually describes a category of people on battle.net I can't stand. I should be less judgmental, but I've been feeling rather jaded by threads like this recently.
Oh well.
There is one other build I'm aware of that can do all the things you want. I can't bring myself to play it - ever - but I don't assume you feel the same way. Ask Sara ("Master Zap") about her dual dream werebear sorceress. Then fight off the urge to vomit in revulsion.
To be honest I could care less about your judgements. Its a game dude, a rather old and tired one at that, and the fact you take it so personally is rather pathetic really.
Rather than being aghast at new blood coming into the game, perhaps you should enjoy the idea of helping guide people to make better decisions. I've read your guides, and they're well layed out and very descriptive, but I don't judge its content bad just because you're a self-righteous prick.
You don't want to help or MF, that's your business. For those of us who like to get in some quick runs, then pop into a newbie game and drop low and mid level uniques, thats our business. I don't judge your playstyle as inadequate or vomit inducing, I'd appreciate it if you returned the courtesy...
[edit] Oh, and thanks to those who actually do and did help, both here and in game, it is much appreciated.
Relativity
18-01-2009, 11:31
What a poor choices of words, Kaleban. There was nothing Socialism said that justifies calling him pathetic or a self-righteous prick. He even provided you with an alternative build to pursue if you wanted it. For shame!
Now, builds that come to mind to do whatever you want:
-Teleskelemancer (with those club guy revives for ubers)
-Hammerdin
-Lightning sorc with infinity
-Trapsin/kicker hybrid
And I'm done. Now play nice, okay?
Socialism
18-01-2009, 11:46
If you actually read my text, you'd have identified that I hadn't categorized you, newbies, returning oldies, or curious people, into the classification of people I dislike on battle net.
If you actually read my text, you'd have identified that my judgments were reserved for aforementioned clump of people that have, as yet, not been identified. (good for you for assuming you're in it though)
I don't want to help? I've responded to YOUR posts with solid information from sheer altruistic intentionality. I took a ton of time to do that. Why? To prevent you from being trapped by misinformation. Not helping?
Wow. That you have chosen to sully that speaks volumes about you. I've extended myself on these forums for years, helped new people for years, and, in fact, even provided you a perfectly suitable character, answering your questions. Not helping? Really?
Read what you just wrote. I'm not the one taking anything personally - or misinterpreting well-intentioned information and deciding to drag my anger-filled e-peen all over the screen - honeycakes.
ZappaFan
18-01-2009, 16:29
... but I don't judge its content bad just because you're a self-righteous prick.
crossed the line. Even if somebody is being a bit self-righteous, doesn't mean you have to resort to name calling.
If you actually read my text, you'd have identified that I hadn't categorized you, newbies, returning oldies, or curious people, into the classification of people I dislike on battle net.
First - Well, to be honest, it's a bit of mockery coupled with general disdain for MFing. It seems like all anyone ever wants is that ubar perfect character.
Second - It's nothing against you personally, and I'm sure you have your reasons for asking the question that, for me, actually describes a category of people on battle.net I can't stand. I should be less judgmental, but I've been feeling rather jaded by threads like this recently.
If you actually read my text, you'd have identified that my judgments were reserved for aforementioned clump of people that have, as yet, not been identified. (good for you for assuming you're in it though)
I did read your text, and while my personal insult may have been unjustified, you really shouldn't try the "I never had sex with that woman" defense because the truth will out. If you're judging an entire group of people, based on actions that you despise, actions that I and others have taken place in, then you're lumping us in.
I don't want to help? I've responded to YOUR posts with solid information from sheer altruistic intentionality. I took a ton of time to do that. Why? To prevent you from being trapped by misinformation. Not helping?
First - I'll only rush you on a paladin. Remember, you don't have time to play non optimized characters, so a necromancer is definitely a no-no.
True, really solid information there, which was only corrected in an edit after I edited my original post. Had I not, that would not have been done would it?
Wow. That you have chosen to sully that speaks volumes about you. I've extended myself on these forums for years, helped new people for years, and, in fact, even provided you a perfectly suitable character, answering your questions. Not helping? Really?
Two perfectly suitable characters actually, a Hammerdin and Master Zap's Dual Dream Werebear sorc that as you put it, makes you vomit in revulsion. You're right, I'm such a sullier aren't I? /sarcasm
Read what you just wrote. I'm not the one taking anything personally - or misinterpreting well-intentioned information and deciding to drag my anger-filled e-peen all over the screen - honeycakes.
Lol. Its a well known saying that what people call us isn't important, its what we respond to. Given the tone and nature of your responses in both threads, your "reputation" here is very important to you, even as you denigrate the game its based on and the players in it. I don't take any of this personally, but its tough for me to sit here and read such hypocrisy and keep a straight face. Nevertheless, at no time was I induced to vomit because of something I read or saw here.
Well intentioned information is that which is offered towards the betterment of the one receiving it, in both threads in question, despite my one insult to you, every single one of your responses has been either sarcastic, or an entire thread started to complain about the very thing being discussed, i.e.:
a) "lol idk, wats the best char for mf ubar n rush?? must be cheap, fast, kill everythig in game ez, not hammerz tho, BORING. mebe baba????"
If you can tell me that this point is not directly a response to this thread, then I guess I'm just a wrong, judgmental and vomit inducing playar lol kthxbye.
P.S. Sorry about the insult, and the need to resort to a quote filled post, but I can't stand hypocrisy.
Socialism
19-01-2009, 00:18
First -
Second -
I did read your text, and while my personal insult may have been unjustified, you really shouldn't try the "I never had sex with that woman" defense because the truth will out. If you're judging an entire group of people, based on actions that you despise, actions that I and others have taken place in, then you're lumping us in.
First -
True, really solid information there, which was only corrected in an edit after I edited my original post. Had I not, that would not have been done would it?
Two perfectly suitable characters actually, a Hammerdin and Master Zap's Dual Dream Werebear sorc that as you put it, makes you vomit in revulsion. You're right, I'm such a sullier aren't I? /sarcasm
Lol. Its a well known saying that what people call us isn't important, its what we respond to. Given the tone and nature of your responses in both threads, your "reputation" here is very important to you, even as you denigrate the game its based on and the players in it. I don't take any of this personally, but its tough for me to sit here and read such hypocrisy and keep a straight face. Nevertheless, at no time was I induced to vomit because of something I read or saw here.
Well intentioned information is that which is offered towards the betterment of the one receiving it, in both threads in question, despite my one insult to you, every single one of your responses has been either sarcastic, or an entire thread started to complain about the very thing being discussed, i.e.:
If you can tell me that this point is not directly a response to this thread, then I guess I'm just a wrong, judgmental and vomit inducing playar lol kthxbye.
P.S. Sorry about the insult, and the need to resort to a quote filled post, but I can't stand hypocrisy.
It's ironic that the post you use to justify criticisms of purportedly hypocritical posts is, in itself, hypocritical.
Haha ^ ^
It's ironic that the post you use to justify criticisms of purportedly hypocritical posts is, in itself, hypocritical.
Haha ^ ^
Yes, the posts you made which I quoted are hypocritical. Its nice to know you can laugh at your own self, its good for the soul. ;)
I stubbornly stick to my guns ^H^H^H^H Bartucs:
(1.) LS (~20% of the time when you're sure there are no Lightening Immunes around) / DS (~70% of the time) / WoF / WoI (when everything is LI) Trapper. Clears entire rooms with ease in record time in most places, Fade for resists with lots of MF gear, CoS for crowd control, SW / SM (your choice; I prefer maxed, pre-buffed SM) for merc meat shield, you can't go wrong.
Bartucs (or any good +2 Assassin skills / +3 traps claw) as left hand weapon gives you a nice Strength boost to get you up to the 156 you need for a Spirit Monarch shield, and for SM prebuff you can use two +3 shadow discipline claws, replaced when needed by whatever you can scrape up to get past tough LI monsters when absolutely necessary. (Shadow Killer socketed with an Um rune and Jade Talon will do nicely, for example.)
This class is wildly unbalanced (in its favor) and is way more powerful than it deserves to be, it can cruise quickly through areas that would be a complete deathtrap for poor old Paladins and some Barbarians. Only real drawback is that you get cocky. Just because you can kill 99.9% of the monsters with no effort, doesn't mean that that last .01%, can't get you. Play it safe, this is HC.
(2.) Summoner Necro with high level Amp, DV, optionally Attract and Decrep (via special wand for act bosses). Max Skeleton Mastery, Skeleton, some points in Golem of your choice (I'm partial to Sparky but a lot of people just save points and go for Gumby), some points in Mages (yeah, I know they're weak, but what the H, another ~10 minions can't hurt), enough points in CE to splatter things a decent distance from Ground Zero and other points spent as you like, maybe in Bone Armor for added durability. Trangs set is the easiest of the elite sets to get all the pieces for (only the hat and belt are kind of hard to find) and there are many easily affordable alternatives.
A slower MF build* and can have challenges in red bulb size (you are a pasty white guy, after all) and resists for Hell, but can solo the game (not the Ubers... you have been warned) with crap gear and a store-bought wand, provided that you don't take stupid risks (the Necro stays behind the army when the dolls and Souls show up... you got that?).
Only real issue with this build, apart from lag on slower computers, is just that you get sick of hiding in the background, passively watching your army tear the monsters limb from limb. Minor issues can be mana pool and army durability, particularly at low levels (normal Diablo is traditionally a problem until you get Summon Resist and a few Revives).
You could also try a LF / PJ Javazon or a Fire Druid. YMMV, good luck...
Cheers
Mr. Bill
* Were it not for the resists and no blocking issue, I'd try this build with the full Naj's set, just because of the Teleport charges in the staff. You'd sure be able to run the Pits a lot faster, but watch out for those archers...
So you're looking for an MF character that can do Baals/Ubers/Rushing etc. eh?
Options:
Summoner Necromancer decked out to the gills and played very carefully
Hammerdin (yawn)
Rift-A-Anything
Melee Sorceress
That's basically it that can do all 4 things efficiently. If you were looking for any combination of things you would receive better answers, but if you (as it appears) want a character that can do everything with ease your options are limited. Outside of the Hammerdin (a rather frowned upon class by most) every other option will require large amounts of wealth to be invested in it before it serves its purpose, thus invalidating the MF requirement unless you are planning to use them to MF in order to acquire said wealth. If that is the case however, I don't see how they' have access to an Enigma...
The best all around MF character to answer the topic title (which oddly is not a part of your post for the reasons mentioned above) is a Sorceress. Preferably cold, probably the best version being the Orb/TK build espoused by Socialism in the guide I assume you've read.
On a personal note I feel that Socialism was out of place with his first response, but more than adequately explained himself in his subsequent response. I suggest that the matter be dropped as my colleagues have mentioned basically every viable build for those tasks in HC.
Cheers
-Tai
Thanks for the feedback Tai. Since the initial posting of this thread I've actually raised up an Orb/Fireball Sorc and a Summoner Necro with maxed CE.
The nice thing I feel about the Summon Nec is that it doesn't actually NEED uber gear to get the job done, unlike most guides that are recommending several Jahs or Bers, Infinity, CoH, CtA, etc. et al.
Plus, the Summon Necro is MUCH safer I feel. With points in Bonewall, Bone Armor, and the massive amount of minions, its pretty much only Gloam lightning or those spearcat piercing things that even hit my necro at all.
I suppose the original intent of the thread was for a place that could be referred to by n00bs such as myself (lol) in the event of encountering the same questions upon coming back to, or newly trying 1.12.
And so far, I'm loving the versatility of the Summon Necro. My killing speed might be slightly slower than a fully decked out sorc, but there's literally NOTHING that his army cannot eventually steamroll right over. And once a body drops, that's all she wrote. While Soc's guides are very high quality, the Orb/TK focuses almost exclusively on Meph, and is not well suited to area running, which with this most recent Necro of mine, I seem to get better drops off of anyway, for less work.
Against bosses its somewhat slower too, although Baal's Minions are a piece of cake, and CB revives and Decrepify turn every act boss into kittens.
I'm sure once I get access to even better gear, my Necro will be an engine of destruction the likes of which the world has never seen! POWER! ;) But I must say IMHO between curses and minion/CE, this has to be the easiest soloing character around, and combines versatility with survivability, my two most important considerations.
As to the teleport question, I was lucky to find a Lo rune which I traded for a Jah, and a friend of mine traded me a Ber for a +1 Pally Combat SKills charm, dunno if I got the better deal there or not lol. I dunno if either runes are "legit" per se, but I know my Lo rune was so my Archon Enigma is 1/3rd legit heh. I'm having a tough time finding Necro gear though, its mostly swords and druid gear lately, found a Jalal's off of NM baal.
but even prior to teleport, with 60% FRW, and using either teleport charges or the TP trick to minion stack, got me along just fine, Enigma just makes it more convenient.
So while the sorc has the benefit of natural teleport, and other classes like the Hammerdin are infamous, I think the Summoner Nec is probably the best starting character for n00bs like me because it actually does combine all the traits I need. I do however need MUCH better gear before I uber lol, but I've ran some friends characters already, and while its slightly slower, they tend to appreciate the safety factor of all those extra targets on screen.
So I guess I answered my own question hehe.
Jack Carael
20-01-2009, 15:37
Hey Kaleban!
Interesting topic this is, mainly because I asked myself the following question a few weeks ago:
"What would be the most versatile, Hell viable character, with the most MF on it as possible?"
I've tried a Hammerdin, a Sorceress and a Necromancer. While the first 2 were much faster, I couldn't put as much MF on them as I liked. What I ended up with was a level 78 Fishymancer with the following gear (and between brackets what I was aiming for before I retired him):
-Arm of King Leoric
-Homunculus
-Ptopazed Shako ('IstIstIst' Artisan's Tiara of Luck)
-Enigma
-Chance Guards
-Goldwrap
-War Traveler
-2 x Nagelring (Fortuitous Rings of Fortune)
-Amulet with +1 Necro, 25% MF (+2 Necro amu with 35% MF)
Switch:
Sword of Ali Baba - ('IstIstIstIstIstIst' Crystal Sword/Dimensional Blade/Phase Blade)
Rhyme ('IstIstIstIst' Monarch)
Setup total: 360% MF
Setup total after weapon switch: 475% MF
This is without charms, ofcourse! You can go overboard with this.
Get Gheed's, ofcourse. Hellfire Torch and Anni are nice (you loose 21% worth of 7% MF charms if you use these.. No biggy, right?)
For the rest of your inventory, you should try to find the right balance between Summoning skillers and 7% MF small charms.
And he played marvelously, too! I could Tele-stomp for 36.000 damage with normal Skeletons alone! Pits, Meph, Cows, Andy, Diablo and to a certain extend Baal weren't much of a problem.
Some notes:
-The MF difference between Topazes and Ists in Helms and Armor is one 1%.. Might not be worth the cost (quick calculation: 1 Ist = ~5 Pul, 1 Pul = ~35 PGs, so 1 Ist = ~175 PGs (and thus Ptopazes).
-The setup with the absolute most MF can be found here (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/magic/magicfind.shtml) - a whopping 1167%! This is for Barbs only though, because of dual-wielding 6 Ist swords.
-There was video guide up in the Barbarian forum some time ago, describing a maxed out Chanter Barb, with Enigma and Huge, Huge MF. He relied on the Mercenary for killing. Might be worth to check it out!
I hope this helps, mate! It seems like you've already made up your mind, but perhaps this could be inspiring for you =)
If you have any questions, you can always send me a PM.
You could also whisper me at *JackCarael or *JackCarael_HC if you're on the Europe Realm - but if you wanna see the Fishy in question, you better hurry up: someone won all his items in a give-away I organized.
See ya around, and good luck,
-Jack
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