Who are Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto's Parents?

[Butch Audacity]

If Diablo, Baal, and Mephisto are brothers, then who are their parents?:crazyeyes:

[SoulSpectrum]

Vader and Lilith who is Meph's kid.

[Lynchgrinch]

what?,...i've often thought of this myself, will they (if they exist) ever show up, probably not since no lore i can find has pointed to there being "parents". im guessing they were just spawned the same as every other demon

[immel]

Maybe the Devil, aka Satan?

:P

[Grawner]

well, isn't Diablo, Mephistopheles, the Devil and Satan the same person?

[Boron]

The "English" word diablo comes from the Spanish which means "Devil" aka satan.

I believe his mother was my mother-in-law. I have no seen family likeness amongst my brothers-in-law or sister-in-law bt I am sure the mother-in-laws two sisters are witches (not as good looking as the flying babes in D1/D2 though) ;)

[KillaMike]

i am not sure about mother, but father?.......

i think tyriel could be, after all if you read all lores you could see that he is the nicest person to them and kept them alive and made pack when every one was against that, so is it possible that.... Tyriel is they Father?



P.S. Luke.... I AM your Father (star wars)

[Knight_Wolf]

As far as the lore of Diablo goes all hell creatures ( demons, ... etc etc ) get spawned from the Abyss of Darkness, so probably the three brothers were some of the first demons to be born from that abyss ( hence the "Prime Evils" title ) , and probably around the same time ( hence the "Brothers" title ).

But this is 80% speculation.

[Lynchgrinch]

i am not sure about mother, but father?.......

i think tyriel could be, after all if you read all lores you could see that he is the nicest person to them and kept them alive and made pack when every one was against that, so is it possible that.... Tyriel is they Father?



P.S. Luke.... I AM your Father (star wars)

LOL, are you serious? i find it very, very hard to believe blizzard would do something like this, it sounds stupid anyway. an archangel the father of 3 demons? theres no lore to back this up

[SoulSpectrum]

I like to think of it in a somewhat "science view". You have a positive and negative. Both equal in matter and complete opposites. In Diablo terms that would be The High Heavens and The Burning Hells. They're both opposites and are equally matched in force and knowledge (That's why Sanctuary is important, even a pin drop to say would over throw the balance and eventually choose the winner of the Great Conflict. However the Balance isn't meant to be confused with the Necromancers and Trag'Oul.). Now that we have our two divisions, they are made up of many sentiments of energy, much like stocks to a company. I look at it as with the Primes consist of the most "negative enregy" thus making them stronger than all in one side or "CEOs". I don't think there is much of a birth process, but just a seperation and gathering of dark matter or eternal energy. But where that came from and the start of everything? Who knows. It could be simialr to McFarlen's Spawn of God vs Satan in this world when there's an unspeakable Deity/God to them that just is everything much like Buhdism.

EDIT: or it is possible that Chris Metzen's best friend is acid... which could explain a lot.... Look at what it did for Black Sabbath, Iggy Pop, or Ministry.

[Grug]

Normally a question like this would make be facepalm and mail fission, but... why ARE they considered brothers? I get the feeling that demon lords don't establish family ties without very good reason. I hope that if there is a "father" of some kind, that it's not a corporeal demon, but some formless, identity-less entity, like Giygas from Earthbound.

On that note, we don't know that much about demon politics. The three brothers being able to be in the same room without trying to murder each-other could be business as usual, or the peace could be unique among the demon courts.

[Cardy]

the demons don't consider themselves to be brother, it's just what the humans call them... mr jigman told me so :jig:

[Boron]

I believe I have this one figured out.

From memory. There was some kind of battle in Hell and the Prime Evils were kicked out forced to live outside of Hell. Diablo returns there to reconquer Hell in Diablo 2. Tyrael (an Angel) gets involved at least two times with defeating the Prime Evils one of which was with "us" as part of the Diablo 2 Story.

In the bible Diablo (Satan) was once an Angel. He fought against God but was defeated and sent to Hell. No doubt many Angels were involved in that battle. I suggest Tyrael was one of those angels, not sure about Mephisto or Baal but my guess is they were too.

Ok, no mention of God (the Christian one) in Diablo 1 or 2 but the mythology of Diablo the game is based. I believe, upon that and / or other religions + the usual Dungeans & Dragons story.

So first how to describe using language we mortals can understand which decsribes the relationships between Angels? I think brothers might be a good word to use, not that it mean they have any parents exactly but they all have the same Creator.

Izual. Another example of a "fallen angel".

To summarise. The Prime Evils and Tyrael are brothers along with all other angels. They have no parents but share one creator. The only difference is that the three Prime Evils are seperated / banished from / by the Creator.

[ZSiegfried]

What you are referring to is the Dark Exile but it is now known that the Prime Evils wanted to be exiled. It was part of their plan, a plan that we can only speculate on currently but which according to Blizzard will be concluded with DIII.

It is always better to separate Diablo lore with real world religion. Diablo is not Satan, he is a fictional character. The only thing Blizzard borrowed from the real world is their names.

I think you are on the right track regarding the brother issue. Inarius refers to as Tyrael as his brother. How I see it is that if you are part of an order (for a lack of a better word, think Angiris Council and "Prime Evils") you refer to your equals as Brother.

Demons are NOT fallen angels. They are the opposite side of a spectrum referred to as the Balance. That is like saying cold is hot that just cooled down. You do get fallen Angels (Izual and Inarius, maybe even Tyrael) but they do not become demons. Izual's quest is to destroy the demon that contains Izual's soul. Izual's betrayal made him an outcast from both sides. Trusted by and part of neither since he corrupted his Angelic being but never able to become Demonic.

As for the creator, there is only one indication regarding higher creator beings in Diablo lore, if you ignore the Amazonian Parthenon which I don't think is relevant to this discussion. “The High Heavens and the Burning Hells create the own notions of their absolute might, the dragon paused, then added, They will someday find that they are far from the ultimate masters of all things created” – Scales of the Serpent, Book II, Sin War.

To summarise. The Prime Evils are brothers, the Angiris Council are brothers, sisters and its. Who created them? We do not know, hopefully we find out some time. Maybe they weren't created. Maybe there was a Big Bang and out sprang Diablo, Mephisto, Baal and Tyrael. Sorry, there I go and drag in real world theories and concepts into a fictional world. Maybe they got made by two giant tortoises being naughty, no wait, wrong fictional universe. Oh, well all we can do is wait and speculate.

That’s my two cents worth, feel free to disagree...

[Knight_Wolf]

Read this guys.

The Black Abyss is where all demons are spawned from. Note that the Void is separate to the Abyss. The Void is more like a place where beings can be trapped in (like Lilith), while the Abyss is where demons are actually spawned from and where they return to when they die.

We don't yet know if angels are also spawned from here or somewhere else.


Tyrael: "Diablo and Mephisto have been banished back into the Black Abyss that spawned them

http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Abyss

All demons come from the Black Abyss ... that's simply it.

[ZSiegfried]

Good find!

[SOLOMIR]

There are many possibilities as to how the three Prime Evils are related, but one can not argue that they are not related at all, as they do refer to each other as brothers.
The problem is that it is not clear how each Demon comes to be, its not only completely vague in must cases, it also varies in the cases that are more clear.
Through out the universe of Diablo we can see various methods by which Demons reproduce.
Fallen Ones for example reproduce, likely like any other animal, despite the fact that we have yet encountered a female Fallen, this might be due to it simply not being rendered yet.
-"Other than killing, the only act which gives them pleasure is breeding, so expect to encounter them in large packs."
We can see in the games, some of the stages in the creation of Demons, like in the case of Vile Children and Pain Worms, these Demons did not simply spawn from some dark pit, but on the matter of how they were conceived in the first place, that is still unknown.
Demon Imps are able to clone themselves using the dissected bodies of humans.
-"Once lulled into trusting these clever and conniving Demons, the master would find his will subjugated by that of his "servant," who would then vivisect him and create numerous homunculi from the pieces."
Also, some creatures are able to become full fledged Demons, the Overlords, who were once Angels are not only irreparably corrupt but also eternal beings, everywhere they are written about in detail, they are defined as Demons.
-"Many of the followers of Inarius were given as gifts to Baal and Diablo, but the rest were molded to match the bloated image of the now crippled Angel."
From the Sin War trilogy we can also learn of a certain lineage between Demons, not just the Prime Evils, Lilith and Lucion are the children of Mephiso, and from the lore added to Lilith, she is the mother of Andariel.
But far more amazing than that, Demons and Angels can reproduce with each other, creating all sorts of abominations, the first generation of Humans, the Nephalem.
Like I said above, cases vary, but bottom line in, certainly not all Demons are spawned from the Black Abyss.
And on another mentioned matter, in the trilogy it is also stated that Tyrael and Inaius are themselves brothers, but although unlike in the conventional human sense, still they are as close to being siblings as any two Angels could be.
-"But even his brother - brother in the sense that their resonances, their beings, held a distinct similarity compared with others’ - would not see reason."

[Magi]

Let's consult the almighty: Webster

broth·er
Function: noun
1: a male who has the same parents as another or one parent in common with another
2: one related to another by common ties or interests
3: a fellow member —used as a title for ministers in some evangelical denominations
4: one of a type similar to another
5 a: kinsman b: one who shares with another a common national or racial origin ; especially : soul brother
6 acapitalized : a member of a congregation of men not in holy orders and usually in hospital or school work b: a member of a men's religious order who is not preparing for or is not ready for holy orders <a lay brother>

[ZSiegfried]

WoW SOLOMIR, its awesome if someone posts such an informative and logic piece of information! But it brings up two things that I would like to discuss.
Firstly...
Discrepancies in Diablo lore

-"Many of the followers of Inarius were given as gifts to Baal and Diablo, but the rest were moulded to match the bloated image of the now crippled Angel."

This contradicts what happens in the Sin War novels. The followers of Inarius are most certainly the Angels who went rogue and created Sanctuary along with the rogue Demons and it is canon that Lilith destroyed all of the Angels and Demons in Sanctuary before she was banished the first time, to prevent Inarius from destroying the Nephalem. So who was left to be given as gifts? As Mephisto only took Inarius.

You could argue that some Angels like demons (look at Astrogha being a minion of Diablo) are affiliated with one of the ruling Angels and that they were given as gifts. But I can hardly see that being the case.

The second thing should rather be discussed in a different thread and that is the purpose and function of a soul in the Diablo Universe....

[SOLOMIR]

Discrepancies, that word eluded me for quite some time now, thank you.
http://worldofsanctuary.freehostia.com/index.php?address=0101010401&search=Overlords
Well the entire story behind the origin of the Overlords further complicates matters, it seems that the it had been completely retconned, I have my own theory as to how this issue may be resolved, but the answer I got from Knaak was not so reassuring.
And still, you can not erase the past entirely, every Overlord slain in the computer games and the D&Ds can't be forgotten, the progress in the story and the affects on it due to the actions the Butcher can not be ignored, and that is a problem which Blizzard would be forced to attend to, in good time.
As the the matter of souls in the universe of Diablo, that is an even more of a mess, I'll have to write something about it sooner or later but right now it doesn't seem like its going to be before the release of the third game.

[Omega Nemesis]

The father of Lucifer of Diablo according the Demonologist beliefs is Belial, as for Mephistophales and Baal, they are never mentioned to have parents as far as textual evidence.

Hope this helps :)

[ZSiegfried]

The father of Lucifer of Diablo according the Demonologist beliefs is Belial, as for Mephistophales and Baal, they are never mentioned to have parents as far as textual evidence.

Hope this helps :)

Is this according to Diablo lore? Or some demonology text that has no relation to Blizzard?

[Omega Nemesis]

Is this according to Diablo lore? Or some demonology text that has no relation to Blizzard?

Well in all honesty, in relation to both. It seems to me that Blizz sticks primarily to the text base lore of Heaven and Hell. If you look up names etc, most of the pirmary bosses have some type of historic backdrop. The premise of the story relies completely on Demonic and Angelic theory. However, I may be wrong, it is only a theory :)

[ZSiegfried]

Well in all honesty, in relation to both. It seems to me that Blizz sticks primarily to the text base lore of Heaven and Hell. If you look up names etc, most of the pirmary bosses have some type of historic backdrop. The premise of the story relies completely on Demonic and Angelic theory. However, I may be wrong, it is only a theory :)

Sub sole nihil novi est

I agree that they borrow names from some forms of literature but in all honesty all the cool names have been taken :) When Blizzard uses the name of an well known demon they borrow its feel not its history. They use the names of known demons just to enhance the horror feel of the game, nothing more.

And heaven and hell in Diablo is not based on religious heaven or hell. The reason I say this is because the souls of mortals do not go to heaven or hell according to the Sin War novel. They go to that other place that should still be revealed.

I know we lore fans don't have much to work with. And that Blizzard isn't giving us anything more makes it even harder. BUT to be lore purist you must forget about worldly connotations names may represent and see them in a completely new fictional way. In many ways what we are doing if we take not only a name's feel but also its history is like asking Alexander from the pub how it was to invade India or how he likes being called Alexander the Great from Macedonia :wink2:

[Omega Nemesis]

I agree with you for the most part, however, I also think that the coincidence of the storyline paralleling to the demonoligist lore is very interesting, and seeing that we do not have anything to rely on for diablo 3 at the moment, it may serve some purpose to explore other routes they may take to bring the storyline farther.

[Schwalker]

I think we might consider a similar idea as the hindu Brahman-Shakti cosmology.

The Brahman (Universal mind power sort of..) and Shakti (energy..) are seen as three different gods in their three aspects of creating, maintaining and destroying, likewise the Shakti are seen as three different godesses despite being one and the same.

So we maybe should ask ourselves what the combined Diablo, Mephisto and Baal character would look like...?

[Lynchgrinch]

again what Zsigfreid has been saying, people are pulling too much of there theorys from elswhere, i know we don't have a huge ammount to work with, but people are starting to pull at anything for speculation. these theorys are interesting but i can't accept them as possibilities. as for the 3 in one thing it's already been debated a fiew times on other threads. i just don't think it is much in blizzards style.

[Echod16]

LOL, are you serious? i find it very, very hard to believe blizzard would do something like this, it sounds stupid anyway. an archangel the father of 3 demons? theres no lore to back this up

What, 15 shots of divine tequila later...a misstep into Hell... that Corpse spitter was pretty hot

[ThulRasha]

Read this guys.


http://diablo.wikia.com/wiki/Black_Abyss

All demons come from the Black Abyss ... that's simply it.

Will quote this for people who have missed it.

In the Diablo lore, it really is this simple. The parent of all the demons, the source where they spawn from, is the Black Abyss.

[Lynchgrinch]

lol @ Echod16 yeh come to think of it that corpse spitter was...

[Dimmu]

Reading this, I can't help but recall them saying in a cinnematic in D2 or maybe elsewhere that Mephisto was the eldest of the brothers and Diablo was the youngest. I thought they said that in the cinnematic between act 3 and act 4, but I may be wrong.

In any case, why would they go out of their way to say something like that unless it held some kind of significance. Clearly they didn't spawn at the same time, but they still retain a brotherhood.

On a side note, I don't think the people writing these storylines think about the plotholes they write themselves into nearly as much as we do.

[nicro tower]

Baal is actually the youngest.

[AkumaSlayer]

Griswald spawned them after he drank too much whiskey.

[Lynchgrinch]

yeh, whats with that i saw somewhere (cinimatic probs) that diablo was the youngest, but people go on about how baal is, and then i read the same thing too online. books don't say anything i don't think. the only clear peice of info is that meph is the eldest.

[Gamekk]

It's like asking where does God come from.

They're like Gods of the evil, they call them brothers but not necessarly because they have the same parents. They could've been one and then dispatched. They could've all be the only being who are there (on the evil side) since the beggining of the time and that's why they're considered brothers. Just a few theories, this could be anything BUT having the same parents, because they haven't been made by other people.

[Zobimanguydo]

Perhaps god?

[nicro tower]

There is no version of an absolute divine being in Diablo.

[Grug]

I think it's because they were spawned at the same time.

And Diablo is the youngest.