Should the barb have bow skills too?

[stillman]

Why not? There's a shield skill, and a lack of throwing skills.

[mackemradge]

In my humble opinion I would say no.

The Barbarian is traditionally a melee fighter, up close and personal with huge damage weaponry. He is not specifically a ranged fighter. It would be like giving a BoTD CB to an Amazon and saying 'Go on have a go with that'. An amazon would last maybe a few seconds. The Barb would be the same with the bow. Use the class to their inherent strengths.

In D2 the barb can use a bow but has no actual bow skills, this should remain in D3. Want to use a bow? Build a zon (or whatever Blizzard come up with for ranger class in D3) :coffee::scratchchin::thumbup:

[Farmrush]

No, the barb is already at its maximum clutteredness. We can't just start tacking on entire new branches of skills. I would prefer they just keep him the way we currently envision him.

[Galabab]

Definitly yes.
I think one of the greatest inspiration for the barbarian was Conan the Barbarian.
In the book as he became king he wears a black full body mail. IK set?

If you read those books you will find many occasions where he uses his deadly bow too.

I think its natural that a muscular man can use a much stronger bow then an amazon.

Famed syrian archers, english longbow-men and savage mongolian riders they all where men!

[Butch Audacity]

I don't think the Barbarian should have special bow abilities but I do think there would be situations where he might need a bow, such as hitting ranged attackers across some valley or shoot down a flying attacker.

[Leugi]

Yeah, let's give him magic elemental spells too and the ability to shape-shift into animals. Oh, and auras.

Although bows would follow the barbarian concept it would remove the role of the class.

[Divisionary]

No.
Giving the barbarian bows would make him too varied. He has plenty already.
Archery and melee combat are not related and require different skills.

[Funkopotamus]

Sure, why not. The amazon had melee skills. I think throwing would have suited the D2 barbarian more though.

[Galabab]

Although bows would follow the barbarian concept it would remove the role of the class.

Bow is one of the first weapons invented by man. Far earlier than the sword.
Its stupid that the barbarian dont know how to use such a simple and deadly weapon.

In diablo there is no such thing as role of a class. Its WoW thinking.
In diablo the characters are all there to kick ***.
The only difference is melee or ranged. But barb was the only class lacking ranged skills and its plain unlogical.
Barbarians are a whole nation. Its stupid they dont have archers.

[konfeta]

Barbarians also seem to be able to cover ground at lightning speeds, scream loud enough to alter reality, leap impossible distances, and generate shockwaves that lay waste to armies.

I don't see why they *need* bows. They already have three perfectly good paths to follow that demonstrate them to be absolute masters of melee combat, I'd rather not see that diluted with bows of all things.

There will be a bow using class - leave archery focusing skills to it.

[cmc]

If the barbarian had bow skills it would come at the cost of melee skills (obviously, since we want classes to be balanced and not favouring the ones we'd like to play.. right?). Ask yourself how effective you want the babarian to be in ranged combat, his melee skills will be adjusted accordingly; if he is as powerful as the amazon then his melee skills will only be as good as the amazon, which is not very. Is this the type of 'babarian' you would like to play?

The problem is people want their class to be good at everything. You can either be a jack of all trades master of none (ala paladin/amazon) or a specialised class (babarian, sorceress). The game would get boring quick if every class was a jack of all trades.

[stillman]

I was thinking along the lines of 1-2 skills, not half a tree or anything.

It would be acceptable because Blizzard wants us to use 5 or so skills anyway. The bow skill could just be one of those options you use for certain tricky situations. It wouldn't have to lessen his melee prowess.

[Leugi]

Alright, aside from the 'role' part, which was dismissed of course, balance-wise it would just be too troublesome, and also concept-wise, because everyone would be complaining "Bah, the Barb can use any weapon making my Witch Doctor look silly" or things like that. So an incredibly varied class will make the whole other classes look weak and less-likely to be chosen, therefore useless.

[konfeta]

I was thinking along the lines of 1-2 skills, not half a tree or anything.

It would be acceptable because Blizzard wants us to use 5 or so skills anyway. The bow skill could just be one of those options you use for certain tricky situations. It wouldn't have to lessen his melee prowess.

It would be 1-2 dead skills, that 99% of the people would probably not use on the barb because he already has exceptional skills to fight at range or close in.

Plus we would have to endure non-stop petitions on forums to either remove those 1-2 skills or add more of the bow skills.

[Divisionary]

Anyone can use bows. Few can use them well. Barbarians certainly can't, unless they specialize, becoming archers.

[Echod16]

I'd think Barbarians would be better suited, what with their muscular frames, to throwing objects at opponents. I'm envisioning a shot putting barbarian, for those pesky across the cliff ranged enemies : )

But in seriousness, a couple "gag" skills for every class is usually in order, if only for a little differentiation, and sometimes for a legitimate alternate route to fighting. The Barbs have always been best suited for melee combat, and adding in 2-3 half-helpful throwing/ranged skills won't greatly redefine his role, so for the sake fun in gaming, why not have them?

My personal favorite made-up skill for far:

Highland Thrower: Using miscellaneous debris from his often obliterated surroundings, the Barbarian can execute throwing techniques from his homeland with deadly results. Based on the debris used, the Barbarian may Shot Put throw, Discus throw, or Hammer throw the object at the desired area. All attacks do splash damage based on their flight path, and overall damage based on the relative weight of the debris and the strength of the Barbarian himself.

Note: Occasionally, even the mighty Barbarian succumbs to Darwin moments. On occasion, the barbarian will have a mishap in his throwing technique, and hilarity ensues.

[GoBigRed]

I could see having a few bow skills that were very basic and not even close to the potential of whatever ranged class they make, but have slower firing rates and potentially other penalties as well like they did in diablo1 to discourage mass use of it.

[stillman]

I always wondered what the crossbow pus spitter was doing in d2. It gave 2 to necro skills...the only bow that adds to other specific class' skills. Maybe they wanted different kinds of bow users in the game.

The wierd thing was it also had a small chance to cast lower resist on striking...but the necro already has it. I wonder what they were thinking there.

[Schpwuette]

Why not have some skills that can be used with weapons other than melee?
E.G. cleave works like a piercing shot.

Surely there's no harm in letting a class competently use more weapons than they specialise in.

A popular 'fun' class in D2 was the Ranger - a paladin armed with a bow. (possible thanks to auras... barely)

Not that I'd mind if they didn't put this in :)

edit:
I always wondered what the crossbow pus spitter was doing in d2. It gave 2 to necro skills...the only bow that adds to other specific class' skills. Maybe they wanted different kinds of bow users in the game.

The wierd thing was it also had a small chance to cast lower resist on striking...but the necro already has it. I wonder what they were thinking there.

Yeah and there were several bows that wouldn't look amiss in a sorceress' hands - let's not forget sorceresses start with 25 base dex.

[Vyckam]

Bow is one of the first weapons invented by man. Far earlier than the sword.
Its stupid that the barbarian dont know how to use such a simple and deadly weapon.

In diablo there is no such thing as role of a class. Its WoW thinking.
In diablo the characters are all there to kick ***.
The only difference is melee or ranged. But barb was the only class lacking ranged skills and its plain unlogical.
Barbarians are a whole nation. Its stupid they dont have archers.

is a "Leap Attack" not sort of ranged attack ? :scratchchin:

[Echod16]

is a "Leap Attack" not sort of ranged attack ? :scratchchin:

Completely OT, but I like your Pred avatar Vyckam

[sweetalmonds]

Nope it would look stupid on a barb, he's suppose to be able to tank up close and dish out a lot of damage fast. A bow is for more agile characters that rely on staying away and slowly wearing down the enemy.

[redrach]

I wouldn't want a specific bow skill for a barb, but rather a melee skill which also happens to work with bows. That's how interesting hybrids are created.
For example, D2 had a Dream sorcs, who were effective at melee because their Lightning Mastery skill increased all lightning damage contributed by the Holy Shock aura from the Dream runeword.

[Magi]

Yeah, let's give him magic elemental spells too and the ability to shape-shift into animals. Oh, and auras.
We have that already. It's called "Diablo 2" :)

How about a "hurl weapon" skill? Whatever their existing weapon preference/specialization/etc. They can hurl it at their foe for varied effects. Obviously this would open the "how do they get their weapon back" can of worms, but meh...while we're all wishing...

Bows are historically accurate for a barbarian-type/nomadic peoples, although I do see it as being rather difficult to implement them for the barbarian class in d3. I would probably leave them out as well if I were the dev.

I agree with a previous post about how "cluttered" the barbarian skill tree already is. I looked at it (very) briefly and it looks very overwhelming. I guess i'll have to embrace it though as my preferred class is the barb.

[konfeta]

Bows are historically accurate for Barbarians like Mongols, not Barbarians from Sanctuary.

[Magi]

yes yes. that's what i meant. edited for clarity. :)

[Dacar92]

It should be able to be done if you wish it so. Bowbarians in D2 are a fun build. Put a Hellrack or a Buriza on Barb and while slow, it is fun to play. You'll have a ranged guy with BO and Shout who will never die.

[teh_Thrasher]

"Barbarians also seem to be able to cover ground at lightning speeds, scream loud enough to alter reality, leap impossible distances, and generate shockwaves that lay waste to armies."

i lawled at that.

from the d2 manual ::
Throwing Mastery
Although not as well known for their use of bows and other such ranged weapons, hunters from the Steppes have practices the use of thrown weapons since earliest times. The open grasslands of their native soil are well suited for taking down game with swift and accurate blows from a hurled blade. It seems a natural evolution and a simple matter for them to have transferred this skill to combat.


id rather have something involving a ranged throwing attack than a bow. it fits the barbarian. make it go in the dual wield category. although since u couldnt make a runeword for throwing weapons they fell into disfavor in d2 cause they took a while longer to kill unless u have really built ur character for the use of throwing.

it would add a nice mix.. hell they are adding melee type spells for the sorceress why not a ranged attack for the barb..

this is just for the sake of argument^^

i really love the ground pound attack they already have that shoots out in a straight line.. thats more what i like cause its takes some of ur weapon dmg too doesnt it?

[teh_Thrasher]

"Barbarians also seem to be able to cover ground at lightning speeds, scream loud enough to alter reality, leap impossible distances, and generate shockwaves that lay waste to armies."

i lawled at that.

from the d2 manual ::
Throwing Mastery
Although not as well known for their use of bows and other such ranged weapons, hunters from the Steppes have practices the use of thrown weapons since earliest times. The open grasslands of their native soil are well suited for taking down game with swift and accurate blows from a hurled blade. It seems a natural evolution and a simple matter for them to have transferred this skill to combat.


id rather have something involving a ranged throwing attack than a bow. it fits the barbarian. make it go in the dual wield category. although since u couldnt make a runeword for throwing weapons they fell into disfavor in d2 cause they took a while longer to kill unless u have really built ur character for the use of throwing.

it would add a nice mix.. hell they are adding melee type spells for the sorceress why not a ranged attack for the barb..

this is just for the sake of argument^^

i really love the ground pound attack they already have that shoots out in a straight line.. thats more what i like cause its takes some of ur weapon dmg too doesnt it? and thats ranged so happy days for all :P

[Groucho_Marx]

Has everyone forgotten the throwing axe? Barbs have several skills associated with those weapons, it would be a simple matter of allowing some of the bonuses to cross over to the thrown version.

There are many real instances of tribes wielding spears or axes and a hand weapon. The theory was to overwhelm the enemy with a barrage of thrown weapons while closing to HTH range.

Conclusion - barbarians have little need for bow skills, leave them to the elves.

[Echod16]

Has everyone forgotten the throwing axe? Barbs have several skills associated with those weapons, it would be a simple matter of allowing some of the bonuses to cross over to the thrown version.

There are many real instances of tribes wielding spears or axes and a hand weapon. The theory was to overwhelm the enemy with a barrage of thrown weapons while closing to HTH range.

Conclusion - barbarians have little need for bow skills, leave them to the elves.

Hmmm...that IS true....

Alrighty then folks...back to throwing weapons we go!

[Gamekk]

Bow skills? NO!

I can just picture the DII barbarian shooting a bow... Not so gracious!!!

They can wear bows, but they may not spec bows! DII had skills for throwing weapons... t'was fine this way!

[MooCQ]

Yes, his singular bow skill as follows: Barb grasps bow - bow crumples. the end.

[Phikes]

No! I would never want to play multi with a specialized ranged barb that couldn't tank. Totally throwing off the dynamics.

[ElementEight]

It's not a matter of can, but a matter of want. Bows don't nearly have the feeling of crushing a skull or slicing something in half. If I had choice, I'd boycott bows too.

[GuardianHadriel]

As a barbarian savage he absolutely could be skilled with a bow from hunting bears like the badass he is or something.
A bow Barbarian is not out of place when you think about his origins but as a class it might not really fit in as he is the big, strong melee fighter of the group.

[Hokuto no Ken]

you all forget the definition of barbarian... its basically any people who arent your own... mongels were barbarians and they sued bows alot...

i think the barbarian should have a "Mighty" bow, ;) and give the demon hunter less bow kills and more knife skills ;)

[demasked]

"Barb take bow!"
"Barb draw bow!"
"Barb break bow..."

There are already 2 skills that are ranged for the barbarian and to me... the muscular barbarian would rather get up close and personal rather then waiting far away.

I think the barbarian is fine as he is.

[Hokuto no Ken]

"Barb take bow!"
"Barb draw bow!"
"Barb break bow..."

There are already 2 skills that are ranged for the barbarian and to me... the muscular barbarian would rather get up close and personal rather then waiting far away.

I think the barbarian is fine as he is.

someone has obviously never tried to fire an old English longbow before

[Sulle]

Why not have some skills that can be used with weapons other than melee?
E.G. cleave works like a piercing shot.

Surely there's no harm in letting a class competently use more weapons than they specialise in.

A popular 'fun' class in D2 was the Ranger - a paladin armed with a bow. (possible thanks to auras... barely)

Not that I'd mind if they didn't put this in :)

edit:

Yeah and there were several bows that wouldn't look amiss in a sorceress' hands - let's not forget sorceresses start with 25 base dex.

I had several paladin builds, and among them I had a socalled ranger build with holy arua using a windforce hehe quite crazy indeed! but it was fun. I think I traded the bow for some combat/offensive charms with life, because I didn´t play amazon (weak in pvp)

Anyway I do hope you can make crazy builds like that in d3, because that was part of the charm and excitement in d2, that you wre able to make viable builds, and not really using the the classes´s maximum potential, but only doing it to have fun with your friends.

It would be interesting, if the barb had bow skills, because vikings also used bows ect. However from a diablo point of view I wouldn´t feel, that it was the same barb I played in d2, if he used bows like the DH. Furthermore, I also think it´s a way of life for him, to live by the sword, which may have been inspired from the viking´s pagan religion, since they i.e. believed, that if they died in battle, then they would enter Valhalla.

[demasked]

someone has obviously never tried to fire an old English longbow before

True the English longbow took quite a lot of strength to fire, but knights at that time had to deal with not only heavy weapons but armor as well (which the archers didn't have). So yea, archers would've had strong arms for those bows, but knights would need a ton more endurance and strength for a continued fight.

However looking back even at diablo 2, seeing a barbarian using a bow of any kind looks really odd (big hulking monster of a man holding a wimpy looking bow).

If you give the barbarian more ranged/bow skills other players will complain that the wizard/demon hunter needs more meleeish skills and that the monk needs to have something else instead of pretty much just melee skills.

You can't get what you want. The barbarian has 2 ranged skills and a number of closing distance skills to get in range for melee attacks.

Too many skills, although might seem to be cool, may break down the whole idea of each class name. Barbarian has always mostly been about close combat damage.

So be satisfied with what is there and if you are such a fan of bows play demon hunter.

And to counter your little snide comment I'll ask you a question:

Have you ever tried to wear 150lb/70kg full plate armor as well as a weapon and attack your enemy? Of course that is just for a knight on a horse, other armor would be 40-75lb/20-35kg weight, which while fighting / moving would still be exhausting none the less.

[nickrim]

barbs have muscles for harder shots

[jepremjan]

Bow and barb is just not ying and yang :S

[nSin]

The whole competitive advantage of using bows is when you can't take a lot of hits, you can hit opponents from far away. Barbs quite simply don't need that, they can dish out more damage up front and have plenty of tanking abilities to not need the ranged attack.

[lorieninfl]

The barbarian's bow is a spear in the face.

[Illmattic]

barbarians have no time to ready an arrow and aim. They prefer to run at something and then remove its head with one swing.

[Scorch Hellfire]

*sigh* Why did you necro this thread phikes? Barbs and bows don't go together... period. They use melee weapons as ranged weapons if they have to. They do not pick up spindly little pieces of wood to shoot even spindlier pieces of wood at demons. Leave that to the angsty van helsing wannabes (not that I think they aren't cool)...

[SwordNINEmm]

make a DH if you want a bow
theres a reason they dont allow all characters to use all weapon types

there is an inherent advantage in a ranged class, they keep their distance from danger
a barb with bow skills would be very OP