View Full Version : Which class will rule the pvp scene?
jakotaco
10-11-2008, 21:01
We all hope for a balanced pvp scene, but most probably it will be some classes and builds that excel here.
Which classes do you think have an edge?
Barbarian
High life, charge and whirlwind sounds like a deadly combination. Especially in a world where it is not so that every other char can teleport 3 times per second. And the skills "Death Proof" that can autoressurect you once every 5 minutes can make you near unstoppable.
drawbacks might be blockable attacks and possibly fury dependancy.
Witch Doctor
Hasn't released that much skill info, maybe the swarm skills and exploding mongrels or other summons could work fine in pvp. But so far nothing that stands out that much. Both barbarian and wizard can get past a zombie wall at least...
Wizard
Teleport, Slow Time and Temporal Armor seems like skills that canmake the wizard ner untouchable. Slow time slows projectiles making them easy to dodge or deflect, and slows melee attack speed by 1 second per attacks. Which is huge considering the wizard can escape with teleport. If he even needs that, as Temporal armor means that he takes no damage if he hasn't been struck for the last 6 seconds!
Freezing, silencing and stunning on critical hits makes the wizard even nastier. And if it's not as easy to resist/absorb spells he might very well be a top dueler. Oh, and did I mention the instant hit laser gun?
Gigashadow
10-11-2008, 21:08
Hopefully, none.
Theoretically, it should be wizard, always, since those rely on micromanagement and otherwise beat any melee class.
Witch Doctor second because he's not a full caster.
Barb on the bottom. Perhaps above the ranged class.
But, because of items having an effect, it's really hard to see.
The class that can perform the highest number of critical strikes per second may dominate PvP in DIII. The paladin replacement, who is suspected to be an agility warrior, may be this class. Though the amazon replacement, who is known to be a ranged agility warrior, may be this class. Plus the amazon replacement will be able to deliver crits from a distance, which could make him/her a better crit dealer than the paladin replacement.
The witch doctor, though, if his Plague skill tree comes to feature a massive poison damage skill that acts over a long time period, could dominate / do well in PvP. The witch doctor could cast this poison skill on an opponent from a distance, then immediately cast a very wide, high-level zombie wall in front of the opponent. The opponent, unless they are wizard able to teleport or a barb able to leap, will be encumbered by this zombie wall for some amount of time. During this time the opponent takes high poison damage. When the opponent gets almost around the first zombie wall, another huge zombie wall could be cast at the corner of the first zombie wall, further encumbering the opponent for some amount of time. Five zombie walls later, the witch doctor wins from the poison damage plus the zombie wall damage.
I think a melee Wizard would be a lethal combinaison for PvP, combined with slow time!
And I think WD will be a flop in PvP. Not many of his unveiled spells can do anything to control others such as slowing them or locking / stunning or that kind of thing. People will just get passed his minions which were always only good for PvE... Howl of terror? Can't tell... this wasn't ever really used in DII PvP with the barb's scaring shout lol. I think he will just be flesh to smash unable to get away from you... sadly.
Divisionary
13-11-2008, 04:45
A hasty conclusion, perhaps, Gamekk? We saw little of the witch doctor yet.
Uncle_Mike
13-11-2008, 10:19
A hasty conclusion, perhaps, Gamekk? We saw little of the witch doctor yet.
Not to mention the fact that there are two more classes to be announced :)
HappyAssassin
14-11-2008, 01:55
Simple answer: Whichever one I play.
Long answer: While we don't know the extent of the PvP scene (or all the characters!) there are basically two traits that are fundamental to PvP characters:
1) The ability to interfere with the other player's game plan.
2) The ability to apply damage quickly.
Now, these get more complex. The first trait is important because it prevents the enemy from executing their game plan and builds frustration, which makes them do stupid things. Obviously, big damage is important, and critical are an important part of it. Lastly, the speed component shouldn't be underestimated.
All the good PvP characters in D2 had these traits. Some of them banked more on one than another, but the best ones used both. For example:
Hammerdin: Desync interferes with opponent control (they are getting inaccurate information from their screen). Obviously the damage was huge.
Barb: Leap stuns people and is generally extremely irritating. Builds frustration. Giant damage with another form of stun (triangle WW).
Necromancer: Bone Prison, IBS, both limit the opponent's options. Big damage.
Assassin: Traps and Mind Blast drive people nuts, and they limit the field for more skilled enemies. Damage, not so much, but it can be quickly applied (teleport/WW). Again, very mobile from fast cast.
Some characters, like Sorceress and Amazon, relied on the big damage part of the equation, but these characters were also corresponding less effective in PvP (the amazon had a limited type of stun with her knockback, but it wasn't skill based or easily applied). These characters were actually the queens of PvP before mobility became such an important part of the game.
Now, in the enigma era mobility was a given, but in D3 it won't be, so mobility would be the third vital trait. The "best" PvP character will be one that combines fast damage, mobility and the frustration factor most effectively. At the moment, I'd give that to the Wizard, Slow Time, Teleport and whatever damage skills (tornado would be deadly to someone stuck in a time bubble and unable to get away). Barb shows some promise, the WD seems like he'll be in trouble until his players figure out some nasty tricks.
I imagine all damage types will be pretty much equally dangerous after resists in D3 (other than poison/others DoTs which should probably be weaker), removing one of the major advantages held by OW/physical/magical based chars. Take out sorb and in D2 something like an ES fballer would probably be the pub dominator of choice. No idea if we'll still have CBF in D3, or fhr for that matter, fhr = stun resistance?
I suspect teleport may be really weak as pure mobility, more an occasional utility than something to spam in pvp. Being unable to touch a character, especially ranged, unless they play dangerously aggressively (see d2c sorcs) is surely going to get caught early on.
What with its focus on solo-capable play I wouldn't expect to be able to be able to limit other players' character control much. I'm guessing weak stun skills and probably some slow is it, probably with Guilty Gear type stunlock preventation (sort of an automatic fhr boost with every hit until the chain has been escaped from). No leap or mind blast.
One thing you don't consider Happyassassin is energy management and even self heals... I don't think anyone knows yet to what extent long term endurance will become a focus of duelling builds, if at all. Whether the player health:damage will remain similar is anyone's guess, pvp could become a lot less spike orientated. Similarly restricted or prevented mana potting and perhaps even pvp areas with their own mechanisms of providing energy. You're narrowing the whole 'interfere with the other player's gameplan' too much definitely, and oversimplifying it imo. Mobility certainly comes under this category, among many other things. In D3 I imagine there'll be a greater element of diluting and expanding the core gameplan.
Anyway as others' have said it's absurd to try and predict this without knowing the final skill trees of so much as a single character.
KillaMike
04-03-2009, 12:38
WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ
Because she rocks and she can kick every bodyes arse in d2 ^_^ ( beside aura dins, havent found char yet to do that .... :S )
Knight_Wolf
04-03-2009, 20:18
The answer i hope to get from Blizz is ... NONE ... none of the classes should be able to rule the PvP scene if they were designed right.
Each class should have some sort of weak point that the other classes skilled players could use against it ... or the other way around ... each class should have at least a couple of skills the excel against another certain class in the hands of skilled players.
Besides class balance we all know the other reaons some classes ruled the PvP scene (i.e sorceress teleport before everyone got Enigma ) ... the propblem with Teleport is that it was good against everyone not a certain or specific class ... that simply broke the gameplay ... they thought the could fix that by giving everyone teleport (Enigma)... gah ... could have simply nerfed Teleport ... i just hope the new team doesn't fall into those kind of mistakes/trap XD
Well, with limited suply of mana, and no mana potions, (at least i don't know about them), the other classes could just wait untill Wizzard depletes his/hers mana teleporting away.
We all hope for a balanced pvp scene, but most probably it will be some classes and builds that excel here.
Which classes do you think have an edge?
Barbarian
High life, charge and whirlwind sounds like a deadly combination. Especially in a world where it is not so that every other char can teleport 3 times per second. And the skills "Death Proof" that can autoressurect you once every 5 minutes can make you near unstoppable.
drawbacks might be blockable attacks and possibly fury dependancy.
Witch Doctor
Hasn't released that much skill info, maybe the swarm skills and exploding mongrels or other summons could work fine in pvp. But so far nothing that stands out that much. Both barbarian and wizard can get past a zombie wall at least...
Wizard
Teleport, Slow Time and Temporal Armor seems like skills that canmake the wizard ner untouchable. Slow time slows projectiles making them easy to dodge or deflect, and slows melee attack speed by 1 second per attacks. Which is huge considering the wizard can escape with teleport. If he even needs that, as Temporal armor means that he takes no damage if he hasn't been struck for the last 6 seconds!
Freezing, silencing and stunning on critical hits makes the wizard even nastier. And if it's not as easy to resist/absorb spells he might very well be a top dueler. Oh, and did I mention the instant hit laser gun?
Non. Unlike D2, D3 will be perfectly balanced, they care for e-sport.
Keighvin
06-03-2009, 01:59
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-press-conference-with-jay-wilson/
Last question in the article.
They aren't interested in e-sport for D3.
Bladewind
06-03-2009, 16:03
I will still say Barbs. ;)
Those Spinning blades of death....
http://diablo.incgamers.com/blog/comments/blizzcon-press-conference-with-jay-wilson/
Last question in the article.
They aren't interested in e-sport for D3.
That's what you think. Jay Wilson is a lead designer of D3, he is not a CEO, he speaks for the audience. They said that for WoW as well... Now look at it :}}}
mephiztophelez
10-03-2009, 01:54
if the barbs Leap does AoE damage, what's to say it won't become the D3 Cheese?
we simply don't know yet and speculation of this sort is beyond pointless.
i just hope that Blizzard will make some attempt at PvP balance in D3, something they have assiduously avoided doing for d2.
The WD gona rule! his exploding bats and frogs gona do elemental and magical damage
together. they gona work like palas hammers or necs bs :p
Oh, and did I mention the instant hit laser gun?Well..it's also known as the LightningGun (from Quake) :-)
ThulRasha
06-04-2009, 14:30
These 3 classes are no match for the mighty Archivist.
When the Barbarian attempts to charge him, he will get a quest bolt in his face, transforming him in a lowly npc wich needs some petty quest done.
Well... Which class dominates the pvp scene in D2? whenever there's a guy who's pwning every1, some other guy comes in with a different build and owns him... Maybe in some patches some builds were imbalanced, yes... but i think that there is no such thing as a class dominating the pvp scene. Besides, Blizz will balance the game, and will probably release many patches to make it even more balanced.
I think that they will implement some kind of cool arenas in the game where you can gain advantage over your opponents by doing certain things like getting to a higher ground or something... That way (if all the chars are balanced) it will be skill dependent only; how fast you can click, how smart you can make your moves, and where you apply your skills at... I think we will probably have to doge certain attacks by either just moving, or using ''escape skills'' which the dev's kinda talked about.
WD doesn't seem like a good pvp char atm, but i might be wrong.
Wizard looks like too amazing. teleport, frost nova, slow time and 'aimbot' magic missiles!! Although we don't know what the cooldowns will be or if you get all of those in one effective build.
Feels silly to speculate a game that is not even in beta stage.
From what we see now. It's quite clear the Wizard would probably be on top. The only thing I'm kind of wondering about is how the mana is going to be regenerated in a PVP battle? Are globes of mana randomly going to drop around?
The WD is too early to say, but he does have some good moves, if a barbarian or Wizard jumps in with teleport or leap, the witch doctor can horrify, send a couple mongrels with locust swarm on the target, skull of flaming, and then detonating the mongrels. That could do a lot of damage.
It's too early to say, but I have a gut feeling the WD is going to be a lot like the Warlock in WoW. I really want the summoning to be up to par.
Imo it depends on one item: enigma(2?)
If there will be an item like enigma or something comparable(teleport charges) then the game may be quite balanced betwen all clases.
If there is no enigmaish item then it depends on the balancing of teleport: if it gets a long recharge or big mana cost which can't be offset by items, and this is what I would prefer, the game may be potentially well balanced.
GunPowderScarrab
26-07-2009, 03:55
wizards, not a big fan of them but still, d2s sorceress kicked @ss
ill logic
23-08-2009, 18:46
During the 8+ years during which people will be playing PvP, and patches will be promulgated, the top dog is certainly going to vary (see, e.g., GA Zons, FO Sorcs, BSpirit Necs). Will there be a top dog at certain points during the evolution of the released game. I would certainly say so. The metagame demands it.
But nonetheless you ask me, in view of the way the skills work, to predict who will rule the scene. To this I say that, like the Assassin's Dragon Flight, what would seem to own prima facie may not do so in practice, given say a long casting time, stunlocks etc inherent in the skills. Will Wave of Force/Impenetrable Defense reflect the spells back at my attacker? Merely deflect? How mana-intensive will they be?
Lastly, I hesitate to speak to that in ignorance of the items and item mods (the major equipment, not to mention the runes that will modify skills in ways we haven't the foggiest of currently) that will be available. Who knew Buriza+Cleglaws would be so OP as to be BM in many circumstances? Will there be highly effective "arcane absorb," allowing me to not only negate the damage, but even heal myself, as was once possible with cold absorb against a sorc's FO. Hell, resistance penalties? What will be the damage penalty for taking skills into PvP (will there be)?
So as much as I like planning out chars beforehand, I find myself completely at a loss. All I'm able to say is that, for whoever occupies the roost in the eyes of the PvP community, I will have a dedicated counter to that spec. Indeed, the most fun I've had in PvP was hunting down GA Zons with my sword/shield barb w/ increased speed and tons of +faster run gear. *whirldwind...SPLAT* The determination of who's best is best made on the battlefield. Your choice is to be one of them, or hunt them down like the dogs they are.
This is all assuming the world doesn't end in 2012!!!!!! :p
The monk seem to offer whole set of PvP ownage.
vouch.
It seems like he was almost made for pvp O.o
The answer i hope to get from Blizz is ... NONE ... none of the classes should be able to rule the PvP scene if they were designed right.
Each class should have some sort of weak point that the other classes skilled players could use against it ... or the other way around ... each class should have at least a couple of skills the excel against another certain class in the hands of skilled players.
Besides class balance we all know the other reaons some classes ruled the PvP scene (i.e sorceress teleport before everyone got Enigma ) ... the propblem with Teleport is that it was good against everyone not a certain or specific class ... that simply broke the gameplay ... they thought the could fix that by giving everyone teleport (Enigma)... gah ... could have simply nerfed Teleport ... i just hope the new team doesn't fall into those kind of mistakes/trap XD
what's wrong with giving everyone teleport? made the game more fun IMO. put more builds up for different classes. blizz always said that in order to balance a powerful skill they'd rather power everyone else up instead of nerfing a particular skill.
what's wrong with giving everyone teleport? made the game more fun IMO. put more builds up for different classes. blizz always said that in order to balance a powerful skill they'd rather power everyone else up instead of nerfing a particular skill.
If we go by his "everyone needs a weakness easily exploitable via skill", then keep the same system d2 has =/
I liked teleport. More builds became possible from it.
Also, how else can I effectively tele ww :P
Teleport wasn't an easy win for sorceresses against melee players. I played melee from 1.08 to 1.11 and didn't have a problem catching casters and killing them as a Zealot or a Fury Druid even.
My idea for balance is this:
I for one kept my Diablo 2 account alive for a while, even though I played WoW extensively, for the fact that Diablo 2 didn't have stunlocks, fears, cyclone, roots, and other "loss of control" effects that WoW had. That was the most irritating part about WoW, in my opinion. There were so many instances where you just simply couldn't do anything but sit there and take it, the only way out of it was a 5 or 2 minute cooldown, but the enemy could always re-apply the problem.
So, here's to hoping that D3 sticks to the D2 method of there always being something you can do.
Also, I was reading a Blue post about WoW and Death Knights the other day. I thought this quote was really interesting.
1) We have learned a lot about making classes. With the DK, we avoided some of the limitations other classes have. In the absence of a lot of tradition, we gave the early DK an answer to almost everything.
It made me realize that in Diablo 2, all the classes were designed that way. You weren't limited by a class counter. With enough skill, gear, and finesse, any class could effectively combat any other. There was always an answer. If a caster came into a melee dueling game and started being rude, you could put on resist gear and make them stop. You didn't have one class that would always beat you, no matter how skilled or well geared you were.
It was immensely frustrating pvping in WoW because no matter what, there was always one class that ripped you apart, even if you had better gear/experience. That killed a very fun element of the game that Diablo 2 had for me, and I hope it isn't an element being considered for the "balance" in pvp for Diablo 3.
Also in this post:
http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=742558
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