LLD Hdin gear questions (+3 BH/+3 conc scepter)

[sequoia]

Is it advantageous to maximize damage in return for sacrificing life?

I can use tearhaunch instead of sanders/cow kings - but I lose FRW and anywhere from 5-10 stats on the items, and an extra 15 stats to equip them. How important is FRW for desyncing with charge? I also save 4 stat points and lose the healing synergy for meditation.

Similarly, I can forego holy shield (or find it on a scepter) and save another point, but I lose more life in terms of dex (this one is not so good imo). But at least I no longer get charge bugged without HS.

Lastly, and the main question along this line - if I use a +3 BH/+3 conc scepter (Honor'd for another +1 skill), I can still hit 125 fcr with a 10 fcr ammy, 10 fcr belt, and 20 fcr circlet. If I include all of these sacrifices (maybe exclude the holy shield one) I can get my damage from 1600 to 2100 (31% damage increazessz!!!)

Is it worth it? I lose some mana, FHR, and 60 life due to switching from spirit cs to the honor scepter.

Worth doing?

(I just ran the numbers in single player, I can get up to 2000 damage if I forego holy shield and vigor. About 2167 damage if I forego charge (and thus save a point in smite too) - since the scepter I am looking at has charge built in. This also means I won't have charge when I switch weapons to meditation/insight.

[mystified]

imho no. spirit just rocks hard. like up someone's behind hard.
purely theorycrafting, that extra 500 dmg = around 80+ ish dmg after pvp penalty.

since you won't be drinking blue potions you lose
1) around 110 mana from spirit
2) 22 vita = 66 life
3) possibly lost a frame in fhr

but if these losses are minimal to you for extra dmg, sure go for it. but to be honest, that scetre looks a lot better on lv 18 hammer (I am assuming it has lv 18 req atm) especially when you are already hitting for 300 ish dmg per hammer.

also I think charge is needed. its THE skills that give pallies that extra edge. you don't need FRW for desynch afaik unless this changed while I was away...

[sequoia]

imho no. spirit just rocks hard. like up someone's behind hard.
purely theorycrafting, that extra 500 dmg = around 80+ ish dmg after pvp penalty.

since you won't be drinking blue potions you lose
1) around 110 mana from spirit
Not too bad, I have some mana scs (around 650 mana right now WITH spirit) and will be using a 20% mana regen belt, 2 sojs, and magefists. Pskulls in everything else, of course too.

2) 22 vita = 66 life
Small issue, in my opinion. I actually built my hdin avoiding the stats on gear so that if I ever get better ammy/circlet I wouldn't have to remake.

3) possibly lost a frame in fhr
Definitely lost frame. The frame I'll have to hit is in the 40's, and can't get to the 86 fhr frame anymore. Never did try to hit the 120 even though I could - so I guess I was always giving up a potential frame anyway. This is one of the actual losses I have to consider.

but if these losses are minimal to you for extra dmg, sure go for it. but to be honest, that scetre looks a lot better on lv 18 hammer (I am assuming it has lv 18 req atm) especially when you are already hitting for 300 ish dmg per hammer.It actually is a level 18 req weapon. I wasn't sure what to put in it, if there is anything better than Honor. Someone mentioned life replenish jewels... which is pretty shoddy in my opinion.
also I think charge is needed. its THE skills that give pallies that extra edge. you don't need FRW for desynch afaik unless this changed while I was away...

Actually, I would NEVER go without charge. But ironically this weapon I am looking at comes with charge. That means that while I have it active, I won't need a point in charge. That also means if I ever switch back to spirit, I won't have charge (LOL). So it gives me two restrictions if I decide to save 3 skill points down that tree:
1) Have charge on main weapon, no charge on meditation aura switch.
2) NEVER SWITCH TO SPIRIT!!

Thanks for the post btw, it definitely is making the decision tougher. :(

[sweetalmonds]

fhr not extremely important when you charge around and pally have good 5 frames with 48fhr anyways(compaired to 280fhr required sorc for same frames ). It's 48, 86, 200 fhr breakpoints I believe. So the extra damage I think would be nice, if it takes one less hammer to kill someone that would make a difference. 'Honor' is the best choice imo, nothing else really fits unless you jewel 6str/9dex/8life/10res@ jewels into it :lol2: 'honor' also has the nice 10 rep when you feel like it ;)


btw if you have nice charms it could even make a half-*** charge weapon thur 25%ds

[sequoia]

'Honor' is the best choice imo, nothing else really fits unless you jewel 6str/9dex/8life/10res@ jewels into it :lol2: 'honor' also has the nice 10 rep when you feel like it ;)Yeah, I have like 30 of those jewels lying around. :whistling:

Assuming I did use five 6/9 jewels, I'd save about 225 hp worth of stats (not bad). 225 HP or +1 all skills, 10 life rep... at least I don't really need to factor in the resists (two reasons: 1) hdins don't have a hard time getting resists anyway 2) does a 6/9/10 R@ jewel even exist? :( )

!?


btw if you have nice charms it could even make a half-*** charge weapon thur 25%ds
I actually used to be a Liberator (charge + hammers) but it's extremely overpowered in LLD, so I stopped.

I ran some numbers in Excel, and if I forego holy shield (and charge), that requires around 27 more dex than I have now (81 life). I lose 22 vitality on spirit and 20 vitality on peasant crown (126 life). Then, tearhaunch has a 70 str req, and my insight gives me +5 str above the 55 strength requirement of a war scepter - i.e. I need 10 more points in strength. (30 hp)

Total, I lose 237 HP (a LOT) to gain 600 damage, as well as an FHR frame and 100 mana.

Makes it look a lot worse.

[mystified]

hmm how about this point of view?
you WILL be unique :)

think it will be not a waste to put 2 point to charge...HS if you can get sceptre all is fine. I do, however, strongly adivse Hs for its fast block frame bonus thingy.
although what I do not understand is the reason to use tearhaunch. Stick with ck moots

Also, some people who don't like using spirit as a weapon would shop (endlessly) for 2 combat, 3 hammer, 3 conc sceptre.
(btw, did you count 10 str from honor?)

So you can think of honour as a step towards that. Also res/dex jewels (the blue ones...that seems to be everywhere :/) are rather..abundant.
you can look aroundnd find 6str 9 dex somewhat easily too.
so it is a choice of 1sk + 10rep life + 10 str or 5 free socks for res/dex/str/req etc

btw, I am, again, assuming you are using 2 x p ruby on your p crown and viper (that or p skull) well, considered changing into shael for fhr?
55 from spirit shield + 20 from a shael = 75. get a 12 fhr GC or scs. heck, get a 10 fhr boots with options if you need. (boots prolly better choice as you can get dex/res AND fhr..saving space for life scs)

you will lose minor points this way (like your rep life and mana if you shael) but gain dmg with virtually no loss of anything. well mana but looks like you got more than enough :p

Ps if it is really hard to make your mind up, I am sure someone *cough* me me me * cough* can make a good use out of it :nod::nod:

[theheft]

I would love to make a level 18 libby using that weapon. I made on on SP using the character editor a while and back but could never find the weapon to actually do it with on b.net.

[lumpor]

Tearhaunch won't increase damage. Only hard points in synergies matter

[sequoia]

Tearhaunch won't increase damage. Only hard points in synergies matter

While this is true, tearhaunch also means I don't have to put points into the prerequisites for vigor.

So, I save 3 stat points (Prayer, Cleansing, and Defiance I think) which can go into Blessed Aim :)

hmm how about this point of view?
you WILL be unique :)
Yeah, it is charming to know that while every other Hdin is hitting 1600, I'll be hitting 2200. Won't be so charming if I end up losing though.

think it will be not a waste to put 2 point to charge...HS if you can get sceptre all is fine. I do, however, strongly adivse Hs for its fast block frame bonus thingy.
although what I do not understand is the reason to use tearhaunch. Stick with ck moots
I forgot that HS gives a faster block rate too. Probably not worth skipping, then. Drops the 2200 damage a bit. Tearhaunch of course is to maximize damage (forgoing skill points) just like using the scepter.

Also, some people who don't like using spirit as a weapon would shop (endlessly) for 2 combat, 3 hammer, 3 conc sceptre.
(btw, did you count 10 str from honor?)
Who doesn't like spirit? Besides them being wackos, a 2/3/3 scepter would be rather ridiculous. The thing is though, +2 Combat gives almost exactly the same damage as +1 All Skills (compare a +2 circlet versus a +1 all peasant crown), but Honor also gives replenish life. I think the odds of finding a 2/3/3 to match would be hard enough, much less one that can actually out-do Honor.

Btw, thanks for checking - but I did get the Str from Honor. The problem is that if I use an Insight on switch, it only gives me +5 to stats, instead of +10 to strength. So I still need to cover 5 strength unless I use a Meditation Honor on switch.

So you can think of honour as a step towards that. Also res/dex jewels (the blue ones...that seems to be everywhere :/) are rather..abundant.
you can look aroundnd find 6str 9 dex somewhat easily too.
so it is a choice of 1sk + 10rep life + 10 str or 5 free socks for res/dex/str/req etcYeah, It's not easy to choose for sure. 5x 6/9/life Jewels would be pretty amazing. But then again I'd end up balancing damage (-1 All skill) for life - which is kind of backwards since I'm already sacrificing a big amount of life to get that damage up. I am willing to bet a middle ground (like what you are suggesting) would be most effective.

btw, I am, again, assuming you are using 2 x p ruby on your p crown and viper (that or p skull) well, considered changing into shael for fhr?
55 from spirit shield + 20 from a shael = 75. get a 12 fhr GC or scs. heck, get a 10 fhr boots with options if you need. (boots prolly better choice as you can get dex/res AND fhr..saving space for life scs)

you will lose minor points this way (like your rep life and mana if you shael) but gain dmg with virtually no loss of anything. well mana but looks like you got more than enough :p

Ps if it is really hard to make your mind up, I am sure someone *cough* me me me * cough* can make a good use out of it :nod::nod:

I do use Pskulls (great for team duels, and don't have to switch gear), but I'd really rather not give up regen for rubies - or I'd be using rubies already as it is.

As for the scepter, I'll try to keep you in mind *looks away*.

[crawlingdeadman]

damage isnt everything. wouldnt a 2combat/3bh/3conc scepter with 20 fcr and 2 os be better than what you mentioned?

[sequoia]

damage isnt everything. wouldnt a 2combat/3bh/3conc scepter with 20 fcr and 2 os be better than what you mentioned?

Probably... :P