View Full Version : average game for D2 1.2 players - JW IS WRONG
Jay Wilson says, "The average game size for Diablo II on Battle.net is 1.2 players, which basically means that almost everyone is playing by themselves. One of the main reasons for that is... well, why would you want to play with someone else? They can go hostile at any time and kill you, mostly in an exploitative way. It's not fair - most of the time you'll be dead before you realise they're attacking. There's a good chance they will steal all your loot, so you won't get anything valuable, and it makes the game harder - so why would you want to play?"
Jay Wilson is wrong. He is misinterpreting that statistic. The reason why the average game size is 1.2 players is because of magic finding (accumulating rare items). The most popular way to magic find was to make a game and quickly kill a boss like Mephisto. So what people do is make a game, kill Mephisto, quit, and remake. You have thousands of people doing this and the frequency of magic find games becomes very high. Each game only has 1 person in it, the magic finder, so it makes sense that the average game size is around 1.
When people want to level and quest then full games are preferred to maximize the amount of experience gained. People would work together for longer periods of time, even hours when trying to advance through acts, and therefore the frequency of these games is very low.
The fact is that people DID work, quest together, and level together. In HC, questing games were the most difficult to join because they were always full!
To address the average game size of 1.2 players and blame it on hostility and playing killing is wrong. Anyone who seriously played the game knows this. Player killers were something to deal with but everyone would deal with them together. Hostility and playing killing does not take away but adds another dynamic to the game. The real issue for this statistic has nothing to do with player killing, but has everything to do with magic find and loot.
Magic find in general promotes playing by yourself for yourself. Magic find equipment is mostly worth wearing when you're alone and have 100% chance of getting the loot.
Hardcore and hostility together made Diablo 2 different from EVERY other game out there. The most passionate players were found around hardcore because these people payed the most careful attention to the game. If Diablo turns into a half hearted grinding game then it's lost. Removing hostility removes an entire dynamic of the game. Dueling and player killing are entirely new perspectives that mean changing how you play.
Please! Allow there to be hostility and allow hardcore mode! Both are necessary for Diablo 3 to remain different from all other games out there. It's bold moves like this that make Blizzard games different from everything else out there.
The average game in public US East HC Hell: 5 on screen MAX (all pk bait and trade games).
omgwtfbbqpwned
13-10-2008, 05:28
Psh if anything isn't fair in D2, it's the fact that those lazy programmers won't fix bugs that have been in D2 several patches and won't do a decent job at balancing the game.
Dueling and player killing are entirely new perspectives that mean changing how you play.
99% of PKing I have encountered resulted in one of the 2:
1. e-peen contest where people start bringing in their strongest character, this escalates, game is ruined.
2. Everybody dies once or twice, leaves, joins another game.
Honestly, PKing is irrelevant. It added nothing to the game, because all the competent PK'ers came in with overpowered/overitemized characters, resulting in the game being over.
I don't know what the statistic is but he probably meant average number of players that has been in a room for more than 5 minutes, seeing as how most people would make a 1person private room for quick item transfering or testing.
I don't want to say you're wrong but well, Jay Wilson does work at Blizzard, he might have a super-average-players-there-are-per-room calculate.
I believe he's very close to the truth.. full games may be "preferred" to get to the next level, but 99.9999% of the time people are mf'ing all alone or just sitting around (Zzz)..
Even when there are full games some idiot always seems to screw everything by hostiling and killing MEPH or Andy.. Thereby ruining the entire game for everyone involved. That in turn entices people to make increasingly more single player games, so they dont have to deal with an annoying public. Also, if you ever noticed, those games called "DIE BAAL- #5,000" Those games tend to only last a matter of a minute or two.. its hardly worth it clicking on these games.. Single player all the way = hassle free
The only reason I'd ever join a full game is so I can grab a waypoint or two, or maybe get RUSHED.. that's pretty sad, I'd just as well go back to playing sp.. Better than dealing with the lameness on bnet.
If Jay wants to improve multiplayer functionality, cool.. it might actually be worth playing..
I agree that PKing has absolutely nothing to do with why most games have only 1 player in. Real reasons are
-'O X N Y' trade games, due to the bad trade system
-self muling, due to the bad muling system
-solo mfing, because for the vast majority of people this is the most 'productive' way to play the game, due to the drop imbalance.
In HC there's more solo play to escape PKers but HC represents a tiny fraction of the D2 playerbase.
'Steal your loot'..? 'Hostile at any time'..? Yeah JW has a point to sell here and he's not at all bothered if he has to bend reality beyond all recognition to do so.
I don't think the original poster is disputing jay's stated figure, which is surely taken from b.net logs none of us have access too. He's just saying that Jay's wrong to blame it on PKing issues, since most people are doing solo runs since that's the most efficient way to hunt items. Which is probably true, but 1) people would still do boss runs even if there weren't any MF (they'd just have to do even more of them to find anything), and 2) pking surely does reduce the interest of some/many players in joining MP games. Especially in HC, in these days of cheats and tricks.
You can argue that Jay's a bit misleading (or incorrect) with his explanation, but his key point is that most players on D2 b.net are playing alone, and that one of their key design goals with D3 is to change that fact. A worthwhile goal, it seems to me.
PK is not as common as it used to be. PK'ers will most likely kill newbies on normal and nightmare, cause they risk gettting trashed in hell by players who have high lvl char. However, nowadays everybody has atleast one high level char so PK'ing doesnt pay off.
Oh, when i remember 'good old days' in classic where the fags would kill Diablo just so the game countdown would be activated
Well i for one have spent most of my d2 life playing alone wether it be sc or hc , lod or classic.Not because im scared of pkers or anything like that.I enjoy playing alone because i take on a "me against the world attitude" and i usually dont go public till around 70 once ive "defeated" said world.
Though i do admit another reason for my "loner attitude" is that i find trying to level with other ppl especialy with lower lvl players very trying and my patience is stretched to the limit so hopefully on my part we will not be forced to multyplay.And perhaps many think the same way.
This isn't the first time Jay is wrong, if by misinterpreting some statistics or by confusing ingame mechanics, he's pretty much proven that he played about as much D2 as I played WoW, which is to say almost none.
Apocalypse
13-10-2008, 20:10
99% of PKing I have encountered resulted in one of the 2:
1. e-peen contest where people start bringing in their strongest character, this escalates, game is ruined.
2. Everybody dies once or twice, leaves, joins another game.
Honestly, PKing is irrelevant. It added nothing to the game, because all the competent PK'ers came in with overpowered/overitemized characters, resulting in the game being over.
fully agreed, this is why i never played in those games. the second you get 1 kill they leave and come back with some level 90 something godly char and scare everyone else out of the game
This isn't the first time Jay is wrong, if by misinterpreting some statistics or by confusing ingame mechanics, he's pretty much proven that he played about as much D2 as I played WoW, which is to say almost none.
There's a big difference between not knowing, and choosing to present the info in a way that bolsters the d3 design goal arguments.
There's a big difference between not knowing, and choosing to present the info in a way that bolsters the d3 design goal arguments.
That's like saying there's a difference between not knowing and lying, they might be different, but neither is any good.
The only way he can say what he said about the fact that most people play alone is if neither he doesn't know how D2 is played or he does know and he's lying about it to back his mindless changes to the game.
I won't even go into when he confused D1 mechanics with D2's and used that as a reason to remove the hostility button.
he's lying about it to back his mindless changes to the game.
Yup. He totally sits there, with a devilish grin, gloating to himself about how he randomly started introducing changes to D3 without thinking through anything and about how he was going to lie to make us accept these mindless changes. :rolleyes:
Robobaby
13-10-2008, 23:25
What I am curious to know is how did he get this number? You cant get that information by surveying the number of games created in a certain time period. I mean think about it:
Single cdkey MFbot on 3 minute cycle operating 24/7. Thats 20 solo games per hour or 480 solo games per day. That doesn't even include loadspreading across multiple cdkeys so you can create alot more solo games per hour without getting temp banned or individuals running multiple bots across multiple cdkeys. In which case MF bots almost certainly make up the majority of solo games created. Since MFing is one of the more tedious and demeaning aspects of playing d2 - a significant number of people do try to automate the task even at the risk of getting banned.
I know one thing:
More players = more fun both in PvM and PvP. Solo PvM is only necessary in D2 because people want drops to make their characters good and don't want them hoovered up by other people's pickits.
It doesn't mean more people want to play solo and it certainly doesn't mean more people enjoy the incredibly tedious and demeaning task that is MFing. It means that acquiring godly gear is such an important end point in this game that people will lower themselves themselves to solo farming or will break bnet rules and get a third party program to script it for them.
BrotherRatcliff
14-10-2008, 00:24
PK is not as common as it used to be. PK'ers will most likely kill newbies on normal and nightmare, cause they risk gettting trashed in hell by players who have high lvl char. However, nowadays everybody has atleast one high level char so PK'ing doesnt pay off.
This statement is very false in HC. I play public normal games all the time in HC and I've only seen one person PKed, and they had to try 3 times to get the guy (who was naked with a chant). In Nightmare games you see PKers in baals every now and again. In Hell games however you can't be in a public baal game for more than 1 minute without somebody getting PKed. This wouldn't be possible without tppk hacks though so that is the real issue.
In the end I think with the new drop system people will want to play together, so that part is taken care of. As long as the system is buletproof enough to prevent something like tppk then hostile should be present. It would be great to have a way to "vote" somebody out of a game though if they are hostiling and camping wps or something.
I think what Jay was trying to say about stealing loot is that it didn't make sense to do mf runs in a group as people would steal the drops/you have to split them and thus you are better off on your own. I think (maybe I am reading between the lines) that he is talking about two different issues 1. Pking and 2. Stealing boss drops.
I also believe that Jay (and the rest of the design team) are trying to remove as much greifing from the game as possible, cos TBH your fun should not be ruined just cos someone enjoys being a ****.
Yup. He totally sits there, with a devilish grin, gloating to himself about how he randomly started introducing changes to D3 without thinking through anything and about how he was going to lie to make us accept these mindless changes. :rolleyes:
No he sits there with a trying to think how he can make Diablo more and more like WoW so that all the kids from WoW will buy the game, the result? A dumbed down game , a shadow of its former self.
For people that keep saying that D3 will be nothing like WoW, how are respecs, auto stat alocation and mutual hostility strike you? WoW like or not?
It's pretty clear that D3 is in the wrong hands, not only is Jay more of a WoW fan than a Diablo fan, but Blizzard sold out and went for the easy money.
I'm not saying everything in D3 is bad, hardly, but as it stands now I'll be buying my D3 from The Pirate Bay.
Robobaby
14-10-2008, 01:17
I think what Jay was trying to say about stealing loot is that it didn't make sense to do mf runs in a group as people would steal the drops/you have to split them and thus you are better off on your own. I think (maybe I am reading between the lines) that he is talking about two different issues 1. Pking and 2. Stealing boss drops.
This is more a case for assignable drops (ala Guild Wars) than assuming alot of people prefer to play solo though.
No he sits there with a trying to think how he can make Diablo more and more like WoW so that all the kids from WoW will buy the game, the result? A dumbed down game , a shadow of its former self.
Even though they specifically said the games' audiences don't interlap.
For people that keep saying that D3 will be nothing like WoW, how are respecs, auto stat alocation and mutual hostility strike you? WoW like or not?
Even though there is more to WoW than respecs, auto-stat allocation, and mutual hostility; and there is more to Diablo than respecs, auto-stat allocation, and mutual hostility; and that all 3 of those elements aren't WoW originated or exclusive.
You are just wallowing in nostalgia and are afraid of change or elements that actually have a real chance of improving Diablo 3 as a game (Hey, I can make up bullsh*t accusations too! Isn't it fun!).
It's pretty clear that D3 is in the wrong hands, not only is Jay more of a WoW fan than a Diablo fan, but Blizzard sold out and went for the easy money.
I'm not saying everything in D3 is bad, hardly, but as it stands now I'll be buying my D3 from The Pirate Bay.
It's pretty clear to me, a hard-core Diablo fan and a person who dislikes WoW, that Diablo 3 is in the right hands, and will make the series better overall.
As it stands, you are a openly stating the intention of becoming a hypocritical thief. You are hating on Blizzard for making a game that you don't perfectly lie, accuse them of selecting greed over making a good game as their primary motivation, and the openly state that you will steal their game.
What is that, cbr? You hate what they are doing to this game so you will protest by stealing it and enjoying it without paying a cent for it? Or you are going to steal it out of spite and not play it, or play it with dedicated masochism? What kind of a bullsh*t justification is that?
You are acting like a freakin' impulsive child, grow up.
Even though they specifically said the games' audiences don't interlap.
Even though there is more to WoW than respecs, auto-stat allocation, and mutual hostility; and there is more to Diablo than respecs, auto-stat allocation, and mutual hostility; and that all 3 of those elements aren't WoW originated or exclusive.
You are just wallowing in nostalgia and are afraid of change or elements that actually have a real chance of improving Diablo 3 as a game (Hey, I can make up bullsh*t accusations too! Isn't it fun!).
It's pretty clear to me, a hard-core Diablo fan and a person who dislikes WoW, that Diablo 3 is in the right hands, and will make the series better overall.
As it stands, you are a openly stating the intention of becoming a hypocritical thief. You are hating on Blizzard for making a game that you don't perfectly lie, accuse them of selecting greed over making a good game as their primary motivation, and the openly state that you will steal their game.
What is that, cbr? You hate what they are doing to this game so you will protest by stealing it and enjoying it without paying a cent for it? Or you are going to steal it out of spite and not play it, or play it with dedicated masochism? What kind of a bullsh*t justification is that?
You are acting like a freakin' impulsive child, grow up.
For my first post on this site, i would like to say. Sir i could not agree with you more.
Mad Mantis
14-10-2008, 08:49
cbr, quit it with the pirate talk. It is against the rules.
Even though they specifically said the games' audiences don't interlap.
Yeah, they also said most people play alone because they were afraid of PK. Just because Jay says something it doesn't mean it's automatically true.
Even though there is more to WoW than respecs, auto-stat allocation, and mutual hostility; and there is more to Diablo than respecs, auto-stat allocation, and mutual hostility; and that all 3 of those elements aren't WoW originated or exclusive.
You are just wallowing in nostalgia and are afraid of change or elements that actually have a real chance of improving Diablo 3 as a game (Hey, I can make up bullsh*t accusations too! Isn't it fun!).
As it stands now they are not improving the game, they are changing it just for the sake of dumbing it down.
It's pretty clear to me, a hard-core Diablo fan and a person who dislikes WoW, that Diablo 3 is in the right hands, and will make the series better overall.
Your Blizzard fanboism doesn't interest me one bit. You're free to like it all you want, doesn't make mean I have to agree or that you're even right.
As it stands, you are a openly stating the intention of becoming a hypocritical thief. You are hating on Blizzard for making a game that you don't perfectly lie, accuse them of selecting greed over making a good game as their primary motivation, and the openly state that you will steal their game.
Haha thief, you've been watching to many MPAA ads friend. They have to earn my money and right now they aren't.
What is that, cbr? You hate what they are doing to this game so you will protest by stealing it and enjoying it without paying a cent for it? Or you are going to steal it out of spite and not play it, or play it with dedicated masochism? What kind of a bullsh*t justification is that?
I'm going to play it in singleplay until I'm bored and than delete it, it isn't worth any more time than that and it isn't worth paying for it. I'm not the type to buy anything regardless of how crappy it is, if Blizzard wants my money they'll have to work for it.
Even though they specifically said the games' audiences don't interlap.
This is pretty clearly not true, certainly my anecdotal evidence shows major overlap between the 2 franchises, though I wouldn't expect it to be at all common for people to play both WoW and Diablo at the same time. Blizz must believe this to some extent though or they surely wouldn't be simultaneously working on both franchises to such an extent. Honestly Blizz will probably soon be starting WoW 2.
Lets just hope they dont delete hostility (in the current way I mean), because that's one of the things I like in Diablo. A frined of mine told me in a discussion the he finds stupod that someone can hostile you without your permission, and I replied that if someone piss you off ingame you can make him pay :)
Kiroptus
14-10-2008, 15:01
^Actually from what we know, hostility IS out.
And its mostly by assholes to ruin other people's game. Diablo was always mainly a PVM game, that option never made any sense whatsoever.
jcakes, please refrain from swearing on the boards. We don't allow that sort of language here.
konfeta, please do not bypass the word filter.
Yeah, they also said most people play alone because they were afraid of PK. Just because Jay says something it doesn't mean it's automatically true.
Neither does it mean they are automatically lies. And the games audiences are different. I went overboard with "don't interlap," but people who play Diablo don't necessary like WoW, and visa versa. People like you are proof enough of that.
As it stands now they are not improving the game, they are changing it just for the sake of dumbing it down.
Support this. Oh wait, you can't, you haven't seen the whole game and cannot judge whenever the game's total complexity decreased or increased since Diablo 2. Silly me.... Or did you just see changes you dislike and suddenly gained inspired and holy prescience? You saw the future and realized that the game became less complex in every way? You somehow pulled this off while ignoring the obvious improvements that make the gameplay more complex?
Your Blizzard fanboism doesn't interest me one bit. You're free to like it all you want, doesn't make mean I have to agree or that you're even right.
Says the person who cries armaggedon every time he sees a change he dislikes. Before you accuse others of irrationality, learn to actually do something besides bashing every change you dislike as a reflex.
Haha thief, you've been watching to many MPAA ads friend. They have to earn my money and right now they aren't.
Let's try this again. Someone develops a product, intended for being sold. You intend to take it without compensating for it. By definition of the words "stealing" and "thief" you are stealing their product and are a thief, no matter what warped sense of morality and righteousness you use to justify it. This is common bloody sense, this is English language, and if you need to watch MPAA commercials to become even aware of it, I don't even know what to say....
And lastly, you, my dear thief, have to earn the right to touch their game. A right you express by paying for the product they create. They are not forcing anything down your throat. Your only rights about this game are to either pay for it, or ignore it. Not to steal it.
I'm going to play it in singleplay until I'm bored and than delete it, it isn't worth any more time than that and it isn't worth paying for it. I'm not the type to buy anything regardless of how crappy it is, if Blizzard wants my money they'll have to work for it.
Your arrogance, childish self-entitlement, and lack of a ethical center is ghastly. Blizzard has an entire team of people working on this game, for multiple years, and just because they don't bend and grovel at your every whim they don't deserve to be paid for a product they make? Because your definition of a "crappy product" is one that doesn't conform to your arbitary sense of perfection?
Your arrogance, childish self-entitlement, and lack of a ethical center is ghastly. Blizzard has an entire team of people working on this game, for multiple years, and just because they don't bend and grovel at your every whim they don't deserve to be paid for a product they make? Because your definition of a "crappy product" is one that doesn't conform to your arbitary sense of perfection?
Yes.
I'm done replying to your holier-than-thou delusional rant. The fact that you think people need to prove themselves to be worthy of buying a game says all I need to know about you. I think you should stop drinking the IP kool-aid, I'll support what I think deserves to be supported, when Blizzard sells out they lose all respect.
EDIT: Added to ignore list.
Kiroptus
14-10-2008, 21:38
As it stands now they are not improving the game, they are changing it just for the sake of dumbing it down.
More dumbed down than Diablo II? Impossible.
Thats right folks, Diablo II is dumbed down. Its a mess. A VERY fun mess but a mess nonetheless, if needs lots of heavy changes to make it the PVM coop hack-and-slash game that it was always supposed to be because right not it isnt.
Diablo II could be considered a failure on what it tries to be but even so, its the best and most sucessful ARPG. But certain design decisions whithin a game that is supposed to be Co-op (like the hostile system, the drop system and the total chaos that the coop gameplay is) are just out of place and deserve the axe or a heavy fix.
This community is spoiled by a flawed game and think its flaws are the brilliance of it. Its not. Any competent game designer can see it and long-time players can see that as well.
And really, if JW's statistics are wrong it doesnt matter because there is truth to his words... there is no reason to coop in battle.net. If not for exploting someone elses abilitity to teleport or bring you to the closer as possible of the end of the act. Or on baal runs, that are the anti-thesis of coop. No one coops on baal runs, they just leech and expect to catch some drops. You are always better off alone which is why D2 is a failure on coop play and that deserves some fixes.
Robobaby
14-10-2008, 21:57
if JW's statistics are wrong it doesnt matter because there is truth to his words... there is no reason to coop in battle.net.
Of course theres a reason to coop on bnet. Because its fun to play with other people when they aren't trying to kill you or trying to steal all the loot. Its fun to talk to and laugh and joke with other likeminded individuals.
TPPK always was easy to fix - Make all projectiles and damaging effects disappear when the hostile player leaves the map (i.e. goes through a town portal). A more extreme version that kills PKing completely is to make hostile actions require the consent of both players rather than the pre-emptiveness of just 1.
Having all your loot pickited before you can even see it drop is also easy to fix - make loot instanced so that everyone gets drops reserved for them (ala Guild Wars).
Exp leeching is also easy to fix - make it so that you only gain exp for enemies where you contribute to the kill.
The funny thing is that all of these things which supposedly wreck coop play are incredibly easy to fix. This max 4 players guff smacks of chopping off your foot to cure an in grown toenail.
If we all wanted to play solo why the hell make d3 a multiplayer game? A single player game would solve every single problem raised in this thread because there are no hacks, no PKing and no leechers in single player. Its also alot more lonely and damn do I need someone to crack a joke and make me laugh in uber trist before I go mad spinning hammers for two hours straight.
Gigashadow
14-10-2008, 22:17
The one single reason I play on Battle.net at all is to exchange items between my characters, something SP does not permit me to do. I play completely solo.
The one single reason I play on Battle.net at all is to exchange items between my characters, something SP does not permit me to do. I play completely solo.
ATMA (A Tenshi Muling Application) will let you do this, it's also diii including SPF approved. If you don't ever plan to trade with SPFers there are mods which grant a shared stash in game.
Gigashadow
14-10-2008, 23:49
I don't like using mods, had some bad experiences. I am just pointing out that bnet had an advantage over SP from the beginning that had nothing to do with multiplayer play.
Yeah, they also said most people play alone because they were afraid of PK. Just because Jay says something it doesn't mean it's automatically true.
It could be true as well, which it is. I'd rather play a quest with my friend alone because it is very likely that some idiot is going to log in and try to pick a fight, and don't try to deny that as an excuse to keep unnecessary PK in the game.
Your Blizzard fanboism doesn't interest me one bit. You're free to like it all you want, doesn't make mean I have to agree or that you're even right.
Haha, there's a difference between being a fanboy, and knowing someone is right and agreeing with them. Just because you don't agree with someone, that doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right, it just means you have different views.
Haha thief, you've been watching to many MPAA ads friend. They have to earn my money and right now they aren't.
Technically you didn't earn the game by downloading it either.
And wouldn't downloading the game completely destroy your point in your statement, that you don't think the game is worth it? If the game is not worth it then why put out your time to play and enjoy it? Time IS money, if you're putting your time out for D3, then you're costing yourself money. You might as well not play it at all, which you deserve to.
I'm going to play it in singleplay until I'm bored and than delete it, it isn't worth any more time than that and it isn't worth paying for it. I'm not the type to buy anything regardless of how crappy it is, if Blizzard wants my money they'll have to work for it.
And if you want a game to be great, you'll have to show the company at least some support and compliment what they did right then maybe they'll try to improve on that idea, and improve other aspects of the game too to make it work even better around that idea you like and support.
Making a statement that implies that you don't like anything Blizzard does will result in Blizzard reworking everything and starting something anew, which probably leads to something else you'll hate even more.
Gigashadow
15-10-2008, 00:39
Um, Visom, cbr's singular monetary input (or lack of thereof) will have no impact on Blizzard or the Diablo franchise... he's just one person unhappy due to PK limitations. I also don't see why should we support a game that we don't like in hopes that it would improve. Last time I checked, if a game starts bad, it will go on bad.
Um, Visom, cbr's singular monetary input (or lack of thereof) will have no impact on Blizzard or the Diablo franchise... he's just one person unhappy due to PK limitations. I also don't see why should we support a game that we don't like in hopes that it would improve. Last time I checked, if a game starts bad, it will go on bad.
You want to play Diablo? Pay for it. Full stop.
Gigashadow
15-10-2008, 03:24
That has nothing to do with my comment, please go back and read how the discussion started before butting in...
Um, Visom, cbr's singular monetary input (or lack of thereof) will have no impact on Blizzard or the Diablo franchise... he's just one person unhappy due to PK limitations. I also don't see why should we support a game that we don't like in hopes that it would improve. Last time I checked, if a game starts bad, it will go on bad.
It has no impact on Blizzard, but you just can't help letting that off. It's not the entire Diablo population that I want to address, it's just him.
AcidReign
15-10-2008, 05:37
Players per game will change in Diablo III simply because of two factors already:
1. Loot for all
2. No PKing (yet, that is)
My bad, I was looking at how his monetary input, if pirated would not have counted... It's late and I hate nightshift.
Swordslash
15-10-2008, 07:22
Here, I have an easy fix:
Game creation consists of an IQ test. Then you are matched with other players of your IQ level. :smug:
I agree with JW. Although the things he says isn't the only reason, it's a big part of it. I think the loot system and the choice free hostile system will encourage and make the average player pr game higher.
Yea, so I wait 5 minutes to perm a game, transfering loot to myself. It's not so much I'm afraid of PK'ers (these are private games.) It's more the high likelyhood, my game lags out or that my "connection is interrupted." Who designed this awful system, you can't even trade an item to oneself?! Without fear, I guess fear, creates a risk, and risk is fun? Funny, I was able to trade with myself all the way up until I made myself "Grief" [literally]... (oh now, was that fun! LoL)
Suffice to say, I don't play multiplayer, anymore. (Has anyone even considered the statistic of single player versus multiplayer games?)
mince pies
15-10-2008, 22:54
It's not fair - most of the time you'll be dead before you realise they're attacking.
Um, no offense to Jay Wilson, but how slow would a person have to be for this to actually happen?
Robobaby
16-10-2008, 00:18
I agree with JW. Although the things he says isn't the only reason, it's a big part of it. I think the loot system and the choice free hostile system will encourage and make the average player pr game higher.
Do the math. Lets take a sample of 8 players. 4 of them are in the same game and they are actually playing through act 1 to 5 cooperatively.
The other 4 players are in solo games, 2 of them are mule games, 1 of them is a trade game ('my um 4 ur ber lol') and the other one is a MF bot.
8 players/5 games = 1.6 average players per game.
PKers are no way responsible for the low average number of players per game. Solo MF bots, muling and trade games are. Muling/trading/botting games are often concluded very swiftly compared to games where a player is manually MFing or manually playing through the game and therefore are more likely to account for the larger proportion of low player count games that are created.
Also bear in mind that a single MF bot on one cdkey is capable of creating 20 solo games an hour or 480 solo games per day. That is more games of D2 in one day than I join in like 3 months.
I am also not opposed to griefing in and of itself and I do not object to PKers in hardcore so long as they aren't using TPPK hacks against which you have absolutely no chance to defend yourself. If I have a chance to defend myself then its fair game and I sort of relish the idea of slaying my assailant. I can usually escape + up + enter very fast if I have to and I figure I have no chance of coming out on top in a fight.
If Blizzard were truly serious about TPPK and really did believe it was largely responsible for a great number of players opting to go solo then they would have fixed TPPK hack already. Believe it or not a fix would be incredibly easy. All you have to do is make it so that ALL projectiles and damaging effects disappear when a player leaves an area. At the moment only certain projectiles/damaging effects disappear (like Hydra patches).
The more extreme fix would require mutual consent to PvP and this would kill PKing in general since you can hostile someone but you can't kill them unless they hostile you back. I don't much care for that solution though.
And before you ask - every hardcore character I ever made died to either lag or PK. The legit PKs were fairgame. You caught me off guard and I was careless. GG. Its only the TPPK hacks that bothered me because there was nothing I could do to even see it coming.
I agree very strongly with the OP on this issue
Anathema
16-10-2008, 03:19
I love how Blizzard constantly brings up the PK issue. Do they forget, they're the ones who made the hostile system? They're also the ones who made it full of loopholes. Lets not forget exactly who's fault the entire situation is.
"ZOMG the mean kids are back!"
Gigashadow
16-10-2008, 04:47
They made the hostile system, but they didn't make PK.
Let's not forget the game is 10 years old and based off extremely old principles and inexperienced. It was also made by a significantly different Blizzard.
Brother Laz
16-10-2008, 19:54
Okay, so the average player count per game is wrong.
So I guess all of you who bot all the time are responsible for the 4 player cap. Congratulations! You rock!
I can throw the same accusations at everyone who participated in XXX Runs (including myself), to be honest. Those were lagfests, and Blizzard seems concerned about keeping the games managable at maxed player numbers.
Funkopotamus
17-10-2008, 03:00
I can honestly say pks and jerks are the reason I play private games by myself half the time.
Apocalypse
17-10-2008, 03:26
I can honestly say pks and jerks are the reason I play private games by myself half the time.
i agree with both reasons but i will throw in rushers. i am one of the few people left who like to go zone by zone clearing everything, once i play with bnet players(non friends) it always turns into a rush fest and the game gets boring far too quick for me
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