View Full Version : Potential issue with new skill tree setup
Brother Laz
10-10-2008, 22:54
It seems skill trees are like WoW talent trees, with no literal prereqs but you need to invest X points into a tree to unlock the next tier of skills.
This could present a problem at early levels. If you have the choice between a starting attack (firebolt) that'll stop being useful after a while, and a passive that will forever be useful, you pick the passive. Which means you'll want to aim for a lot of passives and a few high level high tier damage spells.
Which means you have nothing to attack with at early levels because you don't want to put even 1 point into firebolt, unlike in D2.
Oops...
Mad Mantis
10-10-2008, 22:57
Just melee? Works in D2 for a pretty long time. Pop in some gems and you can easily get past Act I.
Brother Laz
10-10-2008, 23:18
Yeah, that's going to be fun. Roll a wizard, hit everything with your staff until level 25. No thanks.
Also, then what is the point of... every single low level spell? Why have charged bolt when the best course of action is to ignore it entirely? Just as a newbie trap?
Puritania
10-10-2008, 23:29
Huh? I thought it was like Mythos and Titan Quest where you put points in the skill tree to unlock the next tier?
Mad Mantis
10-10-2008, 23:31
Yeah, that's going to be fun. Roll a wizard, hit everything with your staff until level 25. No thanks.
Didn't say it was fun, I said it was possible.
Also, then what is the point of... every single low level spell? Why have charged bolt when the best course of action is to ignore it entirely? Just as a newbie trap?
My hope is that they finally wised up and made the low level skills useful. I haven't played WoW so I can't say how the talent trees work out in that game. You are correct that without beefing up the low level skills to useful the tree would be a very foolish decision.
Sinec I have no clue on how the talent trees work in Wow, do I understand correctly that I'm forced to spend 60 skill points (20 in each tree) before I can reach the level 20 spells in a single tree?
Sinec I have no clue on how the talent trees work in Wow, do I understand correctly that I'm forced to spend 60 skill points (20 in each tree) before I can reach the level 20 spells in a single tree?
Sounds to me as though you have to spend 20 skill points in any given tree to reach that respective tree's level 20 skills.
In WOW, the skill trees are tiered. If you want 2nd tier skills, you need to have already invested 5 points in that particular tree. If you want 3rd tier skills, you need to have 10 points invested. 4th tier, 15 points. 5th, 20.. etc. Trees operate completely independently of each other.
Skill theory
D3 is designed to have characters using 6 active skills (and lots more passive). The controls work with that, and they want to allow/enforce about that much variety. So they’re trying to make the skill trees support that concept, and that much variety. They do not want to repeat the D2 style of most players specializing in just 1 or 2 killing skills, with a few other support that you might only have 1 or 2 points in. Or the synergy style of 4 skills maxed out just to support one skill. They want more variety, a mixture of active skills, all of which require multiple points to become powerful. They also want beginning level skills to remain useful throughout.
Front page, top post. So.. Yeah. Non-issue by fundamental design of the game. Even if the earlier skills DO turn out to suck, they will be balanced back into being useful during the beta.
Seriously, this cannot be stated enough. Diablo 3 is NOT Diablo 2.5. Most of broken stuff in Diablo 2 has zero bearing on Diablo 3 because the games are fundamentally different. Stuff like "we are forced to spend points on crappy firebolts, oh noes" and "teleport's back?! omfg wizards are gonna skip all the content again!" is seriously getting old already.
I think we'll see a lot of opportunities to keep early-game skills viable with the new Rune System they have in place. Magic Missile becoming obsolete after patch x.xx? Well, let's introduce a new Rune into the server that is specific to Magic Missile, and enhances it somehow.
I think the Rune System is REALLY going to take off and be not only an insurance against skills becoming worthless, but also an avenue for players to really be creative and unique.
Que whiners complaining about how the Rune System is too much like "WOW:WotK"
It seemed like a minor announcement at first, but the more I think about it, the more Runes just seem like the coolest thing I've heard so far about DIII. I just hope there is a lot of room for customized spells, since I've heard over at DiabloFans.com that they're getting rid of stat placement.
I doubt they will. Besides, the stat placement not being may just mean that it haven't been designed yet. Skills are the core thing, stats are basically tuning character/item balance later on.
Hope so. Patiently waiting for the Gameplay Panel in about an hour.
Frank_the_tank
11-10-2008, 02:03
I think it's safe to assume that respecs will be possible with this kind of skill system. I wouldn't worry 'bout it.
This would make respecs make more sense in terms of the tier system. Again its hard to criticize when no ones played the game in depth, or had skill distribution at their finger tips.
I am happy that this game sounds and looks just ridiculously fun and im sure its going to be amazing
Lord_Jaroh
11-10-2008, 04:13
It seemed like a minor announcement at first, but the more I think about it, the more Runes just seem like the coolest thing I've heard so far about DIII. I just hope there is a lot of room for customized spells, since I've heard over at DiabloFans.com that they're getting rid of stat placement.
This I don't like hearing. I would like to see more depth brought to it so that there was more meaningful choices between choosing one stat over the other. Having no choice means that the only way characters are different are in skills themselves. I like having as much customizability as possible. I hope this is not true.
the top of the skill trees had a lot of passives/masteries. only the wiz's tree was at all complete. there were only 10 skills for the barb or wd, others not displayed. wiz had 40ish. but the wiz's had 3 or 4 passives on row 1, with 1 or 2 actives. also, bliz has siad they want to make the low level spells improve so they'll be viable long term, so I think they've considered this eventuality.
edit: i'm wrong on the barb here; he had about 40 skills listed. i hadn't viewed his yet and someone told me he and the wd were both very minimal on skills.
FeydAway
11-10-2008, 07:38
What Flux said. The Witch Doctor trees in particular were not fully fleshed out. This is still very much in development.
Sinec I have no clue on how the talent trees work in Wow, do I understand correctly that I'm forced to spend 60 skill points (20 in each tree) before I can reach the level 20 spells in a single tree?
It works like this:
You have 3 skill trees. All which have loads of talents to choose from, and one ultimate. To access the ultimate, you need to spend 40 talent points in that ultimates tree.
Say that you want to get a ultimate in the "Fire" talent tree, then you need to put 40 points in the fire tree.
When picking the ultimate you will have 20 talentpoints left which can be spend wherever you want, maybe there is a great skill in another tree that only costs 20 talent points. Some people like to split their points and take some from all trees, but then you will miss the ultimate. You need to put 5 points in the fire tree to get access to fire tier 2, and 10 to get fire tier 3 and so on.
When i read it, it just looks confusing, but i hope you get it.
Mad Mantis
11-10-2008, 13:57
Thanks every one for the information on the skill tree. Thinking about it, the system isn't that different from D2 and luckily you can still focus on a single tree if so inclined. This is what I get for not having played WoW. Blizz seems intent on grabbing much from that game and my knowledge on it isn't up to date.
poroboszcz
11-10-2008, 18:51
According to http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1020 the new system looks pretty promising. I can already think on a number of completely different builds: offensive or defensive, melee or ranged, focused on survivability or damage. Add runes and you have a really decent system with huge variety. Can't wait.
Hi all.
It's my first post, so i'd like to say that :
1. english is not my mother language,
2. I'm immune to french bashing
as of a wow player for near 4 years now, and waiting for Diablo 3 like a child the night before Christmas, I read a lot of things from wow-haters, about wow. Sadly, they don't know a single word about what they talk about.
The object of my post is to talk about wow skill & talents system, witch is kinda difficult to understand for a non wow player, but is really easy in fact.
Let's take for example the Mage class, a common class between wow and Diablo. (wow mage = D1 sorcerer = D2 sorceress = D3 wizard)
Every levels, a class have access to new skills, or a new rank of skills already known. You just have to buy them with money. At character creation, a mage knows three skills : "Arcane Intellect", "Frost armor" and "Fireball". Arcane intellect is a buff that increases the target's Intellect for a duration. Frost armor increases armor for a duration. Fireball is, well, a fireball.
At level 4, the mage can learn "Conjure Water" and "Frostbolt".
At 6, "Conjure food", "Fire blast", and "Fireball" rank 2. The new rank of fireball is better than fireball rank one, obviously.
And so on, every two levels. New skills and/or new ranks
Each skill fits in a skill group. "Fireball" and "Fire blast" are in the "fire" group, "Frost armor" and "Frostbolt" in the "Frost" group, "Arcane Intellect", "Conjure Water" and "Conjure food" in the "Arcane" skillgroup. There are many others skills in each group.
for a full list of mage skills, take a look at this page : http://www.wowhead.com/?spells=7.8
Now, the talent part. You gain a talent point each time you level up past level 9. So when you hit the max level, ie 70 for now, you have 61 points to assign in your talent trees. What is a talent? it's basically a thing that modify something for a skill of a skillgroup. Rarelly, it's a new skill. Each class have three talent trees, which have the same name as the skill groups. Each talent have between 1 and 5 ranks, and are organized in tiers. You have to spend points in upper tiers of a specific tree to access lower tiers of the same tree.
here is the mage talent trees, for better understanding : http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=o
let's take some examples. The talent "Improved Fireball", is in the Fire tree, and in tier 0 (which means no prerequisite). This talent is a 5-talent form, and each point invested in reduces the casting time of the Fireball spell by 0.1 sec.
The talent "Spell Power", is in the arcane tree, tier 6 (you have to use 30 points in the upper tiers of the arcane tree to spend points in), and a 2 point talent. Each point used increases critical strike damage bonus of all spells by 25%.
Talents can radically change a class role. For example, the paladin have the following trees : retribution, holy and protection. If the player invest majority of his talent points in "Holy", he will dedicate his character to be a healer. He will be used as a tank if he spend points in "Protection", and will become a dps in "Retribution". But each paladins can use all skills, except ones unlocked in talent trees. A holy paladin will be a great healer, but a poor dps or tank.
Note that not every class can tank, dps ou heal. Paladins are an extreme example. Mages are a pure dps class, as well of hunters and rogues.
To summerize, each class have access to all class skills, and talents are used to fit player playstyle, or empower efficiency in a part of the game : pve, pvp, tank, dps or heal.
Comparing this with Diablo 3 system make me think of they are mixing skills and talents from wow. Little active skills, a lot of passive and modifiers. Plus capacity to modify the behavior of a single skill, which will happen too in the next wow expansion pack, with the glyph system.
Sorry for the wall of text, but i've read so much imprecise things about wow that made me scream on my screen.
A skill tree would be nice for DIII. Make respecing a little less frequent.
Sein Schatten
11-10-2008, 21:45
Front page, top post. So.. Yeah. Non-issue by fundamental design of the game. Even if the earlier skills DO turn out to suck, they will be balanced back into being useful during the beta.
Why spending points into any tree beyond Tier 0? Shouldn't the End Tier be the most powerful? Thus saving points up to max it and the End Tier of another tree? I dunno. :scratchchin:
As I said, non-issue by fundamental design of the game:
http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1020&page=1
Look at these skills. Starting attacks are essentially the main killing abilities of every class. Higher level attacks provide unique effects or powerful attacks with strategic limitations such as a timer.
The higher tiers are there to expand the character's options - you can use all these lower level skills to make your character into a killing machine (just look at the massive bonuses they provide, effects equivilent to Cold or Fire mastery are already there), or you can specialize to access the unique effects on top.
Now, this isn't entirely confirmed, but this is what Blizzard seems to be going for. That's what I got out of looking at these trees.
i asked leonard boyarsky about this today, and he said they were aiming the skills to remain useful long enough, and there were enough passives early on that 10 points by lvl 10 shouldn't be out of the question. also, we don't know how many skill points we'll get. 1 per level on level ups, but maybe from quests? dunno, it's on my list to ask about, anyway.
Could you get a confirmation or denial on the notion that a level 1 skill is viable to be a main attack for the entire game?
Because I really, really would dislike it if they stick with idea of skill obsolescence even if it occurs at end-game.
Heres my impression of it:
For this example I am going to use the "arcane ball" spell that is in the gameplay video.
This seems to be a very low level spell. So you put 1/1 pt into arcane ball and you get it. The higher the tiers, the more powerful you can make that spell. So you have the passive of "increase critical chance 10%" "increase damage done by 26%" etc.
seems kind of boring because yea, you will be using this skill the WHOLE game. We want some variety right?
::ENTER THE POWER RUNES::
I think this is an amazingly good idea and could change the way people develop there characters by SO much. with one power rune, the arcane orb could turn into, chained orb. with a different one, it could turn into, multi shot orb. with a different one, you can get Guiding orb. with another one you could get explosive orb.
ETC...ETC...ETC...
I think Blizzard has now given us a HUGE supply of skills, but they come by maniupulating your current abilities instead of gaining new ones which really opens the door for customization!
So now, we use our skill points to focus on the damage of our skills, and we use the runes to dictate what we want our 6-ish main skills to be. Get bored of blasting away with the same ones? Change ALL of your runes, and its like your are playing with 6 new skills! Could be very exciting :thumbup:
I don't know if you noticed, but all attack style spells seem to have a max of 1 rank anyway and damage is solely boosted by the passives (or at least that's how it seems) which means that what you state is not really an issue anyway.
Sein Schatten
12-10-2008, 03:17
damage is solely boosted by the passives (or at least that's how it seems)
Maybe the skills level as you level?
Brother Laz
12-10-2008, 04:17
Still I'm not convinced. Say I want to use meteor. In D2, this means I need firebolt, inferno, blaze and fireball... so I can shoot monsters on the way to level 24. In D3, until I get meteor at level 20, the optimal path to take for a long term powerful meteor is to put all points into passives and not a single point into a damage spell that isn't meteor.
So instead of being 'forced' to get prereqs, which conveniently allow me to have fun at lower levels, now I'm being pushed into not getting any spell at all at lower levels.
This has nothing to do with low level spells being useful or not. Perhaps charged bolt rocks out. I don't care, I want meteor and it's making me hit stuff with a staff for 19 levels until I can cast something.
This is idiotic.
Robobaby
12-10-2008, 05:31
Only if you assume that lower tier spells are actually useless and that it is more beneficial to hold points back for higher tier skills. Rather like people putting 1 in all pre reqs and then dumping all points into Frozen Orb at level 30 or whatever.
There is no indication that the tier system is going to function that way and even if it did, this is the type of problem that would appear very quickly in playtesting. I really wouldn't worry.
I am starting to think people are afraid of touching links on this forum like it's unholy fire.
http://www.shacknews.com/featuredarticle.x?id=1020&page=1
Laz, that would have been a great argument if Diablo 3 attack skills didn't take 1 point total to max. Or maybe if the game wasn't being balanced into having you use around 6 different attack spells instead of mindlessly spamming one attack at every monster you encounter.
The horror. You are forced to spend an entire point out of 100+ on a staple attack spell that improves with your equipment and the same skills that improve your Meteor or character in general in a game that will have, at the very least, limited respecing. Whatever will you do. I guess you can join the other brave soul who decided to pirate Starcraft 2 in act of DEFIANCE of Blizzard's corporate greed and allconsuming desire to force you into playing one build. :rolleyes:
NOTHING about this game is even remotely forcing you to whack stuff with a staff until you reach meteor.
Sein Schatten
12-10-2008, 14:59
The horror. You are forced to spend an entire point out of 100+ on a staple attack spell that improves with your equipment and the same skills that improve your Meteor
People releveled their character because of a misplaced point. So this argument is moot.
Investing one point into charged bolt (which you don't intent to use) means one less point into one of the more useful fillers. But I guess only a min/maxer will understand this.
Maybe this will be a better system, maybe not. I am familiar with the WoW tree and it works there. Problem is, all tiers need useful skills. This will be not always the case.
Brother Laz
12-10-2008, 15:32
Only if you assume that lower tier spells are actually useless and that it is more beneficial to hold points back for higher tier skills. Rather like people putting 1 in all pre reqs and then dumping all points into Frozen Orb at level 30 or whatever.
As I said I'm not interested in their usefulness. I want to use the level 25 skills only because I like their graphics or whatever and the game tells me if I want to make those level 25 skills good, I need to suck it up and melee for 24 levels.
There's a reason why D2 mods that remove prerequisites all suck, and that's WITH items with +x to single skills - which I doubt will be in D3 because spells cap at level 1.
......
The horror. You are forced to spend an entire point out of 100+ on a staple attack spell that improves with your equipment and the same skills that improve your Meteor or character in general in a game that will have, at the very least, limited respecing.
And my meteor will forever be weaker than the other guy's who struggled (or got rushed!) through level 1-24 and didn't invest the point.
Uh huh... in D2 yopu had to spend points on prerequisites to get what you wanted, normally increasing the end spell you wanted. Now, you have a spell needed (same as before) but as you invest more points into it, you increase the effectiveness of that end spell you want as well. What's up man?
It seems skill trees are like WoW talent trees, with no literal prereqs but you need to invest X points into a tree to unlock the next tier of skills.
This could present a problem at early levels. If you have the choice between a starting attack (firebolt) that'll stop being useful after a while, and a passive that will forever be useful, you pick the passive. Which means you'll want to aim for a lot of passives and a few high level high tier damage spells.
Which means you have nothing to attack with at early levels because you don't want to put even 1 point into firebolt, unlike in D2.
Oops...
How did you come to that conclusion?
passive spells are designed to increase the active spells power, so upgrading a passive spell, it will have benefit to the active spell.
The other thing though is that one active spell may not be good for all kind of monsters so you are still presented with a choice.
another thing i just saw is that the level of power between lvl 1 and higher level spels is minimal, another thing is that the passive abilities are kinda spell-specific, for example passive spells only increase specific active spells based on various damage types.
Another thing you'll notice on the wizzard spell tree is that the last spell "blizzard" has only 1 leve to upgrade, so this means level 1 spell with more points will be more useful than a later tier spell in many if the cases!
People releveled their character because of a misplaced point. So this argument is moot. Investing one point into charged bolt (which you don't intent to use) means one less point into one of the more useful fillers. But I guess only a min/maxer will understand this. Maybe this will be a better system, maybe not. I am familiar with the WoW tree and it works there. Problem is, all tiers need useful skills. This will be not always the case.
And my meteor will forever be weaker than the other guy's who struggled (or got rushed!) through level 1-24 and didn't invest the point.
I feel like I am bashing my head against a depleted uranium wall here.
THIS GAME HAS GOD DAMN RESPECS.
HOLY <EXPLETIVE>.
You are raising a cry fest about being forced to spend 1 point, in a game that doesn't revolve around you spamming 1 skill, in a game that will have respecs.
As in, you will be able to take points OUT of skills you don't like INTO skills you do like.
And people then accuse me of needlessly bashing others. Did you 2 manage to completely miss the entire respec controversy? That nearly every time there was an interview with someone from Diablo 3 team people asked about respecs and got the answer "Yes, we are planning to have some iteration of it?"
Brother Laz
12-10-2008, 23:01
If respecs are that easy, it presents another problem... :whistling:
Then argue that problem instead. What you are presenting here is an non-issue from at least 2 fundamental angles. The respec "problem" is a wholly different issue, and we already had flame-wars on battle.net and a what, 15 page topic on this forum?
You know, respecs might be both difficult and still make my point stand, because you will only have to remove 1 bloody point.
Laz is just whining to whine. When someone fails to listen to reason and logic thats what you get. There is nothing even remotely close that suggests or implies you will be walking around swinging a staff for 24 levels...and repsecs also.
just go back and read the info
stillman
13-10-2008, 05:41
Wasn't it Laz who made that big respec thread? Anyway, I think he's not worried about wasting one point. Rather, he's worried that everyone is going to just use the passives instead of firebolt and firebolt will become extinct and pointless for 99.999% of Diablo playing, kind of like the problem in d2. So, there may be all kinds of low tier skills that no one ever uses unless they want to purposely make a weaker build.
The whole point of Diablo 3 design is that lower level skills are suitable to be your main killing abilities through-out the entire game. Higher level skills expand your options in terms of damage dealing or give you powerful strategic attacks.
This is just running in circles now.
Heh, most threads about anything debatable/opinionated do after about the 3rd page as peeps don't read the stuff before them.
...
Why am I typing this? Someone's probably going to in another 30 posts or so.
Wasn't it Laz who made that big respec thread? Anyway, I think he's not worried about wasting one point. Rather, he's worried that everyone is going to just use the passives instead of firebolt and firebolt will become extinct and pointless for 99.999% of Diablo playing, kind of like the problem in d2. So, there may be all kinds of low tier skills that no one ever uses unless they want to purposely make a weaker build.
Who wants to make a weaker build when your goal is to destroy he biggest evil in the universe?
I'm pretty sure that all the skills they put up to the game have a potential to be a killing machine. They just work differently, some are big AOE killer spells, others are 1 target massive damage ones. The point in D3 is to use a lot of different skills depending on the situation. Just looking at the Wizard gameplay video makes me drool, using all those skill in 1 room :) This system seems 100 times better than D2 now.
Who wants to make a weaker build when your goal is to destroy he biggest evil in the universe?
That's not your goal, your goal is entertainment. The only way the 2 are linked is if you derive your entertainment from role playing your character. The game has to be made enjoyable for the LCD so inevitably anyone who appreciates a challenge in pvm is going to want to make lower tier builds sooner or later.
I'm not concerned at this point, not to the point of joining a mostly repeat argument on 2 fronts due to our current lack of information wrt respecs.
That's not your goal, your goal is entertainment. The only way the 2 are linked is if you derive your entertainment from role playing your character. The game has to be made enjoyable for the LCD so inevitably anyone who appreciates a challenge in pvm is going to want to make lower tier builds sooner or later.
I'm not concerned at this point, not to the point of joining a mostly repeat argument on 2 fronts due to our current lack of information wrt respecs.
Oh ok, well if someone thinks it is entertaining to be stuck in normal because your character is too weak for the greater challenges.
Magic Missile (tier 1 skill) is not so lame as I can see. It has Penetrating Spells (lower resist), Arcane Power (increase damage), Arcane Speed (FCR), Improved Magic Missile (increase damage, more missiles), Arcane Weakness (aka damage increase curse), Arcane Distortion (slow enemies).
With all this maxed, lvl1 skill is going to be a Mass Destroyer, and I'm already looking forward to it. And if you can't use anything but hi-lvl skills (never built Meteorb, or Charged Bolt sorc, or Skellymancer, Smiter etc in D2), then keep being lame and continue whining :)
Apocalypse
13-10-2008, 16:26
The whole point of Diablo 3 design is that lower level skills are suitable to be your main killing abilities through-out the entire game. Higher level skills expand your options in terms of damage dealing or give you powerful strategic attacks.
This is just running in circles now.
is anyone here allowed to have a different opinion than yours?
Oh ok, well if someone thinks it is entertaining to be stuck in normal because your character is too weak for the greater challenges.
So you like to play the game on ez mode, good for you. You're not alone. Some others (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=480035) get their entertainment other ways, who are you to say they shouldn't be catered to as well?
The ONLY non-competitive challenges in Diablo are ones where you've put limitations on yourself. Once you've got better at the game simply playing mid-tier builds untwinked in HC or w/e may not be enough.
is anyone here allowed to have a different opinion than yours?
If they support it with argumentation, read provided counter-arguments and evidence; instead of posing it as whining, yes.
I can't change someone's like or dislike of an idea. But I think I can at least change their perception of it when they clearly fail to demonstrate understanding of the concept at hand.
Case in point - attacking the current skill tree set up because it forces you to waste points on skills you don't want. I counter by pointing out that
A. The loss is essentially 1% of your total skillpoint pool
B. You will probably end up using those "useless spells" because they are designed to work through-out the game and this game encourages you to utilize many attacks.
C. This game has respecs anyway.
If they don't like this because they don't like this kind of set up for preferable preference, whatever. If they don't like this based on certain held misinformation, which I resolved, they should at the very least change their perception of the supposed problem.
Apocalypse
13-10-2008, 20:18
i gotta say i do agree with your point of view on this topic, even if you had no respec option and never got that 1 point back, you would still be on level ground with every other player. so anyway i agree with you on this
Starving_Poet
16-10-2008, 21:37
Sein, have you looked at the skill tree? You can only put 1 point into any of the attack skills - all your points get distributed into the support skills that boost or add effects to the attack skills. If one point means that much to you and you don't want charge bolt because you want to focus in electrocute, then you can put points into any of the other skills and rely on items that grant skills for those 5 whole levels.
Well, I am a fairly deep gone min-maxer, and I understand the concern of wasting something like even 1 skillpoint.
However I don't see why there should be such a concern for D3 based on the information avaivable.
Apocalypse
16-10-2008, 23:41
Sein, have you looked at the skill tree? You can only put 1 point into any of the attack skills - all your points get distributed into the support skills that boost or add effects to the attack skills. If one point means that much to you and you don't want charge bolt because you want to focus in electrocute, then you can put points into any of the other skills and rely on items that grant skills for those 5 whole levels.
exactly my point, plenty of skills right now so i feel there will be no "wasted points" other than people changing thier minds. i really like this new idea of 1 point to buy skill and rest into passives
satheron
17-10-2008, 10:44
even if you screw up and waste a skill point, or fall for a "newb trap" as someone called it..
respec.
Instead of meleeing to 25, pump those low lvl skills to get you through, and later on in the game respec for higher end power, since you will have excess to bigger spells.
There I just saved you some gems :D
stillman
17-10-2008, 13:11
I really like the 1/1 for attack spells too. Here's why: in d2, I think most or nearly all attack skills had either 1 or 20 points put into them. It was a no-brainer to max out stuff. Why would you only put 12 points into Blizzard if you use it as your main attack? As for the 1 point wonders, those just make me sick and imo, are tell tale signs of poor game design.
The new system is all about customization. You sill still max stuff out, but you have the hard choice of wether you want more damage to one mosnter or more AoE, for example. D2 never had that; it was just damage damage damage. D3 will have the wonderful customization everyone wants.
I know I'm OT, but I just like the new setup.
Apocalypse
17-10-2008, 14:27
I really like the 1/1 for attack spells too. Here's why: in d2, I think most or nearly all attack skills had either 1 or 20 points put into them. It was a no-brainer to max out stuff. Why would you only put 12 points into Blizzard if you use it as your main attack? As for the 1 point wonders, those just make me sick and imo, are tell tale signs of poor game design.
The new system is all about customization. You sill still max stuff out, but you have the hard choice of wether you want more damage to one mosnter or more AoE, for example. D2 never had that; it was just damage damage damage. D3 will have the wonderful customization everyone wants.
I know I'm OT, but I just like the new setup.
yup, i really think they are going in the right direction here and i fully agree with you about the d2 problem of 1 or 20. i believe in d3 you will see alot of maxed skills but you might also see some skills brought to mid level
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