WW BoTD tele Barb vs. Smiter with no CTA and no Enigma

[devnull]

So, I really stink at PvP, I freely admit this, and a few friends and I got together for some fun duels. I have a 91 zeal/smiter and the friend's barb in question is using BoTD with Enigma. Sad state of affairs for me, I'm afraid, but I wanted to ask for fun. I think I killed him by luck 2 or 3 out of maybe 30 times.

My gear is as follows, not built for PvP AFAIK (and I realize lifetap is frowned upon, but in this case it didn't seem to matter, and I don't think it kicked in much at all):

Guillaume's Face with 15% IAS jewel
AP Duress @ 1441
Grief pb (+398)
10% Dracul's
8% Carrion Wind
222/20 Raven
Thundergod's
186% Up'd HoZ Um'd
29 Mara's
Gore Rider
No skillers - mostly %5 FHR combos and resist, 95% of them small charms. I don't even carry tps.
15/15/6 annihilus, no torch (I use this guy for uber trist)

25 fanat, 27 zeal, 27 holy shield, 27 sacrifice, 18 in smite.

75/75/85/75 resists before any fade or that sort of thing -- which incidentally, I didn't pre-buff.

1,388 life, 14,325 defense. My damage is pretty high, but I haven't done the calculation and the character screen lies.

My primary m.o. has been charge on first hit then fanat with smite. Almost all tries I would get him down to a little less than half of his HP before I died from his WW. So far as I remember he was using warcries. We partied and I let him bo me, and my defense shot to well over 30k with, if I remember, well over 3k life. The only thing I know about his gear is that he's using Enigma and a Berserker Breath of The Dying. He's, I believe, level 86 or 87.

Is there any sensible defense/counter to this? :)

[Uncle_Mike]

So, I really stink at PvP, I freely admit this, and a few friends and I got together for some fun duels. I have a 91 zeal/smiter and the friend's barb in question is using BoTD with Enigma. Sad state of affairs for me, I'm afraid, but I wanted to ask for fun. I think I killed him by luck 2 or 3 out of maybe 30 times.

My gear is as follows, not built for PvP AFAIK (and I realize lifetap is frowned upon, but in this case it didn't seem to matter, and I don't think it kicked in much at all):

Guillaume's Face with 15% IAS jewel
AP Duress @ 1441
Grief pb (+398)
10% Dracul's
8% Carrion Wind
222/20 Raven
Thundergod's
186% Up'd HoZ Um'd
29 Mara's
Gore Rider
No skillers - mostly %5 FHR combos and resist, 95% of them small charms. I don't even carry tps.
15/15/6 annihilus, no torch (I use this guy for uber trist)

25 fanat, 27 zeal, 27 holy shield, 27 sacrifice, 18 in smite.

75/75/85/75 resists before any fade or that sort of thing -- which incidentally, I didn't pre-buff.

1,388 life, 14,325 defense. My damage is pretty high, but I haven't done the calculation and the character screen lies.

My primary m.o. has been charge on first hit then fanat with smite. Almost all tries I would get him down to a little less than half of his HP before I died from his WW. So far as I remember he was using warcries. We partied and I let him bo me, and my defense shot to well over 30k with, if I remember, well over 3k life. The only thing I know about his gear is that he's using Enigma and a Berserker Breath of The Dying. He's, I believe, level 86 or 87.

Is there any sensible defense/counter to this? :)

A few random suggestions:

Consider shako for helm - life, mana boost, additional DR%.
For belt - if you don't need str from tgod use verdungo's hearty cord for DR%
I see no point in using carrion in that duel - BK would be better for 1 skill and life (you don't seem to have cta so the fact that it's not boable shouldn't matter).

Flash holy freeze during the duel to slow the barb.

If i were the barb I wouldn't cry about life tap in your setup, that might be a EU NL thing though :)

[AxlStrife]

Assuming the barb is using zerks, the range on zerk vs pb really hurts since he can get hits on you from slightly further away while you have to be right next to him. That with his defense and life are more than likely making a good bit of the difference in wins.

Are there any counters to this? Mike covered everything I could think of off-hand.

[Aneth]

Assuming the barb is using zerks, the range on zerk vs pb really hurts since he can get hits on you from slightly further away while you have to be right next to him. That with his defense and life are more than likely making a good bit of the difference in wins.

Are there any counters to this? Mike covered everything I could think of off-hand.

Defense doesn't matter versus smite.

Get a nigma yourself and practice chainlocking. Alternatively, put a widowmaker on switch and if he starts playing defensively, ping him with arrows to force him to come to you. Works well with open wounds on gear somewhere. Just make sure he doesn't catch you with a telewhirl while you have a bow out, try to only use it while offscreen slightly and switch immediately if he teles onscreen.

[devnull]

@Uncle_Mike
So far in pub, that extra DR seems to work out really well.

@Aneth
Nice touch on the bow. I'm definitely trying that one.

@AxlStrife
Right, I noticed the reach difference immediately. It seemed like I'd get poisoned from a mile away.

[xtreme paladin]

I hope I can help you, this is my technique. My smiter has never lost to a WW barb up to now.

1. Always switch to walk mode. Make sure you have 50% DR or close to it. Make sure your HS is up at all times. Your target defense is at the range of 20 to 30k. Your 14K def is too low. If he uses angelics, your screwed.
2. Always hold SHIFT+smite when he WW directly at you. Never ever chase him in WW mode. Don't charge him. Hold SHIFT+Smite is the key.
3. If he's a good WW barb, he will not WW directly at you but he will do triangular whirls since his range is longer than yours or he may do a WW clip to take advantage of his longer range. If that happens you can do the following, walk away from him when he clips or triangular WW you. This is a test of patience but you can still win, he will make a mistake and your PB will reach him or use a Grief Zerk to reach him. Using a GriefZ will make your reach longer and he will die when he clips or triangle WW you. Just hold shift+smite. Trust me, apply these techniques and you will never lose to a WW barb.

[AxlStrife]

Defense doesn't matter versus smite.


True, I dunno why I threw that in there. Must be in the mindset of pub games where it's more than 1v1 more often than not.

[Timmy]

Remake your paladin. T/V > any barb :yes: Get an enigma, dungo, mara, exile, CoA/griffon ( CoA is want I mostly use against barbs but griffon is excellent too if since barbs can't stack resistance that well ), foh stick and 5k life in total.

Just stand still kill him with FoH. The next round he'll probably wear full absorb with T-God and 2x wisp but just stand still and kill him with FoH. Your FoH will still do more damage then his WW since it will hardly ever hit. If he's got fade and manage to outstack you with 20/5's ( i have never met a barb that could do this ), smite him if he gets too close by walking to him and start FoH when he gets out of range. :P

A pure smiter/zealer won't stand chance against an excellent barb with max Dr, 8k life dual wielding wiht Grief Ba +Beast and an inventory full of 3/20/20's. If that barb wants to be lame, he can replace Beast with Doom.

[devnull]

Flash holy freeze during the duel to slow the barb.


Mike, is that considered bm? I have a feeling it is; I don't have any skill points left, so I bought +3 scepter and it works hilariously well.

@Timmy
Remake isn't desirable right now. As I mentioned, I use this guy for ubers if I'm not messing around in duel games getting my behind squashed most of the time by sorcs and FoH paladins. I've noticed that everyone seems to hate FoH pallys unless you happen to have one in the game. :D Re: your barb comment, I've beat a few barbs using Grief/EBoTD that seemed to be better than me (7k+ life) after this thread was started, but it just took a lot longer. Granted, I switched to verdungos, shako, and I'm now using Call to Arms.

@xtreme paladin
Your comments were excellent. I didn't notice the two flavors of WW until you mentioned it. It's been years since I played a barb, and I never was much of a fan to know the skill tree really well enough to know how one would best utilize WW.

@Aneth
I discovered the bow just tickles most players, even with maxed fanaticism and high dex with almost perfect +5 Windowmaker. I think it only serves as an annoyance, and, coupled with the lack of a shield, it's left me wide open a few times to, for example, bowzons that I can't catch. Zons make it even less effective because of their passive skill tree it seems.

Anyone have any other suggestions for anything I mentioned above? I love this thread.

[Uncle_Mike]

Mike, is that considered bm? I have a feeling it is; I don't have any skill points left, so I bought +3 scepter and it works hilariously well.

If you play West some might consider it BM but I don't really get it :) Cross-realm differences I guess :) Unless you take advantage of high defence and holy freeze barb has the upper hand in these duels IMO.


Anyone have any other suggestions for anything I mentioned above? I love this thread.

Get an enigma and start tele-smiting :)

[Locke07]

I still think if all things being even a BvC barb will own a smite build. A barb will have an effective widow switch with his max dmg charms, or even worse a double doom switch (BM I know).

A barb just has to ping the smiter into following him and when that happens it's just a matter of punishing him for it.