Witch Doctor is perhaps NOT the new Necromancer

[Frostraven]

Someone said something about Witch doctors beeing similar to druids.

Or... perhaps they didn't.
I do not know.

What I do know is that the thought about the suggestion that might have been made made me think.

The witch doctor seems more like the druid and assassins' kid than a variant of the necromancer.

Summon mongrel?
Is that more akin to summon wolf or raise skeleton?

Zombie wall?
Fair enough.
Looking at african shamans (witch doctors are british folk who claimed to cure the diseases caused by the devil centuries ago, so I refuse to use that misleading name for shamans) zombies are not undead.
At best, they are closer to beeing possessed by spirits or beeing poisoned than undead.

No matter.
One zombie wall does not make a necromancer.

Looking at the rest of the skills...

Mass Confusion.
Mind Blast or the Confusion curse are spiritual (pun intended) ancestors of mass confusion.

Horrify.
Grim ward in a paladin aura.

Firebomb.
Well... No need to comment.

Soul Harvest.
Redemption aura meets nova.

The shaman is in touch with nature and it's resources, more than death and giving life to dead things or making things dead directly through death magic.

My word associations for the different names..:

Druid:
Animals
Forests
Potions/herbalism
Spiritual magic
Weather magic
Tribal
Uncivilized (but not uncivil)
Celtic style
Green and brown

Shaman (or "Witch Doctor" as they decided to call him)
Animals
Forests
Potions/herbalism
Spiritual magic
Vodoo
Weather magic
Tribal
Uncivilized
African style
Peacock

Necromancer
Death
Undead
Undead spirits
Death magic
Golems
Lone wolf
Decadent / civilized
Gothic style
Black and white

...

Perhaps necromancers simply are evil NPCs this time around?
Or even expansion pack material along with some random classes -- like some popular D&D character classes are expansion material for 4th ed D&D, because they were popular enough to use for milking?

[Smash]

Good that someone notice it too. I hope it will end WD Necro comparison because there are not even close.
I wonder why people doesn't see that WD is like druid not like necro.
Massive damage in close range + summons for distracting and help not for main killing purpose (this part about summons Blizzard said himself) just look how long few mongrels took to kill one buffalo. Thinks about mongrels as wolves from d2x.

[Karky]

Why do we have to try to tie it up to other characters at all? Why not just accept it as a new character? it's not the new necro, druid, assassin, or anyone else, it's a new character.

[shizzz]

its going to be really interesting using this char.

[Frostraven]

Why do we have to try to tie it up to other characters at all? Why not just accept it as a new character? it's not the new necro, druid, assassin, or anyone else, it's a new character.

Archetypes.

Let's mention some.

Mage.
Rogue.
Fighter.

Mage archetypes:
Druids
Wizards and sorcerers
Clerics
Necromancer

Where does witch doctor fit in?
In... the fighter archetypes? No.
In the rogue archetypes? No.
He DOES look the most like a druid.
Based the arcetypes and skills presented.

50% druid (Potions, nature, animals, spirits)
20% necromancer (Soul feast, wall of zombies)
20% assassin (Fire bomb)
10% arcane (That terror thing)

He fits in the druid archetype.

Why do I even mention archetypes?
Because there's only so many variations of skills possible that are easy to script:
-Limited range attack
-Line of sight attack
-Line attack
-Area of effect attack
-Area of effect centered on user attack
-Cone area of effect attack
-Fan attack
-Seeking attack
-Seeking chaining attack
-Wave attacks
-Aural attacks
-Turret
-Minion

Find one skill in any 2D game not following any of the attack archetypes.
Seeking, wave, cone area of effect and area of effect are "magic and chemical"-only attacks, and all other attacks archetypes feel bland when combined with magic.
All skills we will see will follow the limited selection of possible attack forms.
All were present in Diablo II.
All will be present in Diablo III.

The characters may be new, but the skills and their archetypes are old.
The skills will always be identical to skills in other games, the only difference beeing the damage type and graphical effect, and who gets the rights to specific styles and archetypes.
It is impossible to not see similarities to Diablo II skills as long as they keep using the skill archetypes.

I bet they will be using new combinations, like minion walls (zombie wall) and perhaps some clever ones as well.

[nicro tower]

The witch doctor is more akin to the druid than the necromancer. Druid/shaman same thing. Definitions are confuzzling and tend to be very similar.

[Kiley]

No one has really said the WD is the new Necro except the people who need something to be angry about because their necro class isn't in the game.

I'm sure this will be repeated for every class, as we find out about the new magic caster, the new bow using class, the new shield using guy.

I'm the oddball guy, I'm only angry that the barbarian is back. I think they could have made him an npc, and his lonely story told by Blizzards amazing cutscenes, better than making him a playable character.

I'd have rather had all new classes, even though I'll miss my Javazons greatly.

[Valkenheim]

I remember somewhere they mentioned that they only wanted 6 classes at release, my only concern is that this may be the only summoner at the start, if so will sort of suck, although WD looks like an okay class I was hoping they would stick more with the necro pure summoner type of class, but I guess I can't really jump to conclusions.

From the video it does look sort of like a mad summoner, but mostly zerg type things which is not really bad thing just if they do end up being the only summoner I hope we eventually get a nice big boss tank summon.

[knightmawko]

Ive been saying that the WD is a cross between a Necro and a Druid, after seeing some of its fire skills my mind changed a little, but then I thought, hey, maybe it's a whole new class.

Regardless right now its my favorite of the three anounced,

[GoldenBird]

Archetypes.

Let's mention some.

Mage.
Rogue.
Fighter.

Mage archetypes:
Druids
Wizards and sorcerers
Clerics
Necromancer

Where does witch doctor fit in?
In... the fighter archetypes? No.
In the rogue archetypes? No.
He DOES look the most like a druid.
Based the arcetypes and skills presented.

50% druid (Potions, nature, animals, spirits)
20% necromancer (Soul feast, wall of zombies)
20% assassin (Fire bomb)
10% arcane (That terror thing)

He fits in the druid archetype.

Why do I even mention archetypes?
Because there's only so many variations of skills possible that are easy to script:
-Limited range attack
-Line of sight attack
-Line attack
-Area of effect attack
-Area of effect centered on user attack
-Cone area of effect attack
-Fan attack
-Seeking attack
-Seeking chaining attack
-Wave attacks
-Aural attacks
-Turret
-Minion

Find one skill in any 2D game not following any of the attack archetypes.
Seeking, wave, cone area of effect and area of effect are "magic and chemical"-only attacks, and all other attacks archetypes feel bland when combined with magic.
All skills we will see will follow the limited selection of possible attack forms.
All were present in Diablo II.
All will be present in Diablo III.

The characters may be new, but the skills and their archetypes are old.
The skills will always be identical to skills in other games, the only difference beeing the damage type and graphical effect, and who gets the rights to specific styles and archetypes.
It is impossible to not see similarities to Diablo II skills as long as they keep using the skill archetypes.

I bet they will be using new combinations, like minion walls (zombie wall) and perhaps some clever ones as well.

Thank you, someone who finally gets it.

Soooo many people are complaining about how WD is so unoriginal and everything, but really, EVERY single thing you can come up with, it's still going to be similar to something else and under one of the archetypes. No matter how hard you try, you can't escape!

[jakotaco]

20% assassin (Fire bomb)

If it weren't for Diablo 2, I wouldn't really say fire bombs is assassin archetype. While it is true that bombs have often been used in real life assassination I would probably put it under some alchemist/vigilante/rogue archetype. Although in the case of a flaming skull I'd put it under the shamanistic caster.

[Ishtor]

Gosh! Folks, it is so obvious that the witch docter is a version of the druid, thats why they both deal with nature and can shapeshift.... Oh Snap! thats just the druid.

WD is into dark evil magics, tribal dealing with death, demons, disease and curses, simular to a Necro. But at the same time this is not a necro because he is own class. For those who lost your beloved Necro Class, i am sorry for your loss this is not that same thing.

If the WD is not a Druid and not a necro then what is it.... it is a WD!!! Stop comparing this game to D2. it is not going to get you anywhere.

D1 to D2 added 3 classes in total ( i am including the expansion for both games) Both head the warrior typ cast, Range and spell user in the origanl version. Hellfire added a holy charecter which D2 had its own (yet no healing abilities) The Druid, Assassian and Necro where new editions to the diablo world in d2. There is no reson to believe any of the charecter will be duplicated, only time will tell.

My guess it will be the basic 5 classes. Warrior, Range, Caster, Holy and Dark. but i have no proof of this.

[raveharu]

Witchdoctor would definitely be having healing, resurrection skills in their Spirit Tree.

Yes Blizzard mentioned there was not a need for a healer in game, since there are mana/health orbs in the game, but that doesn't mean they will not be including a partial fighter and healer in the game. The WD might need the healing skills for his/her minions, and at the same time it could be used on party members.

Anything is possible as long as the WD is tweaked in such a way he can go through the game alone in SP.

[Ishtor]

i will fully disagree, they will not include and healing type moves, this is nto the diablo way. especailly resing since they have the check point system. i got to say i like the run back to body a little bit more, alot of time that made a challenge apear when you have to figure out how to get back at your body.

[Chorkstain]

There's nothing I can see wrong with a character having a straight up healing move.

[Fegon]

My guess it will be the basic 5 classes. Warrior, Range, Caster, Holy and Dark. but i have no proof of this.

Yeah, the doc is the ranged attacker, thats actually an intresting thought. Never realy bought the whole, doc is a replacement for necro.

[FreshMeat]

I completely see the necro as being toast.

The most powerful aspect of the Necro is not summons, not bone, but curses.

the necro curses are in wd videos. necro is gone.

[Ishtor]

There's nothing I can see wrong with a character having a straight up healing move.

they are not going to get rid off pots and give us healing moves? that makes no since what so ever.

Yeah, the doc is the ranged attacker, thats actually an intresting thought. Never realy bought the whole, doc is a replacement for necro.

He is though, he is not exactly the necro, but the simularites between the charecter are to much alike. any closer we would have the necro. I like the Necro, he was a really fun class, nothing like clearing cow levels out with bonewall and iron maiden, those where the old days though.

Blizzard said other than the barb no other charecter would be returning atleast not until the expansions. but i dont even see them coming back after that, as long as they come up with other classes that can take there spot and fighting styles.

[FreshMeat]

Yeah, the necro's curses are swallowed up by this WD freak. and i say freak not in the cool way.

could suck.

[LucianDK]

I think the WD is a delightful new take on the dark mage concept. I look forward to go out in the areas around Caldeum and fighting down the necromancer cult that is supposed to lurk there, acording to the lore on the d3 site.

Seems like the necros may have gone nuts, and i wouldnt be suprised that they are the threat to deal with in act1 of D3. Much like how the d1 heroes became the villains in D2.
http://eu.blizzard.com/diablo3/world/bestiary/gnarledwalker.xml

[Klose]

Seems like the necros may have gone nuts, and i wouldnt be suprised that they are the threat to deal with in act1 of D3. Much like how the d1 heroes became the villains in D2.

Oooh, I love that idea! The Necromancer is my favorite D2 character class, so I hope the poor guy gets honored somehow in D3, even if it's an anti-honor.

[FreshMeat]

moan.... youre aim name is necrocomicon.... thats the coolest geekiest name I have seen in a long time.... :D

Yeah, if the necro was a villain I would probably not even attack him. Have to respect that.

[LucianDK]

Yeah, really doesnt suprise me if Blizzard finds a way to giving all the d2 classes 'honorable' mentions. There is still the rumor about the Amazon becomming a merc I heard.

And yes, it would quite well fit the powerhungry necros to be the ones lurking in the woods with those gnarled trees as I linked from the lore section on page 2.

Do remember that the Necros serve balance, if the world tips too far towards good, they might act to rectify that. Helping Diablo back into Sanctuary, and perhaps being seen as villains in the process.

[Sass]

Not Diablo in, but rather Angels out. After all, they defeated the evil in the game, not summoned some good. :P

[Klose]

moan.... youre aim name is necrocomicon.... thats the coolest geekiest name I have seen in a long time.... :D

Thank you!

I managed to get "necrocomicon" for my email, but the AIM name "necrocomicon" was already taken so I had to add an extra C in there, but oh well. :(

[GoldenBird]

The necro and the WD aren't the same thing. The only similar thing is that they summon things. But so does the Amazon and the Assassin, you never see anyone relating them together. The necro practices dark magic, the WD is a caster that practices voodoo. The necro is more about dealing damage, the WD is about possessing and using spiritual powers. Even if you look at the lore, you'll find tons of differences.

And you know what, even if they are similar, no matter what you create it's still going to be similar to something else. It's not like you hear people crying "omg teh barb is teh same ting frum deh warrior in d1 omg omg omg!!1!"

[satheron]

Its interesting how people complain for something original, then when they do it...the first thing people do is relate it to other unoriginal aspects as quickly as they can.