Windforce vs Buriza-Do Kyanon

[dknomisdk]

Why is WF conisdered better? Looking at the stats, upped buriz seem better… What do i miss, please explain!

[Sehnsucht]

Both are good picks and are able to solo hell with.
The WF is favored more so, as it does a fair bit more physical damage.

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Windforce v1.09
Hydra Bow

Two-Hand Damage: 35 To (241-547) (138-291 Avg)
Required Level: 73
Required Strength: 134
Required Dexterity: 167
Base Weapon Speed: [10]
+250% Enhanced Damage
+ (3.125 Per Character Level) 3-309 To Maximum Damage (Based On Character Level)
20% Increased Attack Speed
6-8% Mana Stolen Per Hit (varies)
Heal Stamina Plus 30%
+10 To Strength
+5 To Dexterity
Knockback

---
Buriza-Do Kyanon v1.09
Ballista

Two-Hand Damage: (82-99) To (139-412) (110.5-255.5 Avg)
Required Level: 41
Required Strength: 110
Required Dexterity: 80
Base Weapon Speed: [10]
+150-200% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+ (2.5 Per Character Level) 2-247 To Maximum Damage (Based On Character Level)
Adds 32-196 Cold Damage - 8 Second Duration
Piercing Attack (100)
Freezes Target +3
+75-150 Defense(varies)
+35 to Dexterity
80% Increased Attack Speed

[MalVeauX]

Why is WF conisdered better? Looking at the stats, upped buriz seem better… What do i miss, please explain!

The ballista is a crossbow. That's the reason, plain and simple. If the Buriza was instead a bow, everything would be different. Crossbows are inherenty slower than bows and can't reach the same break points as easily. When it comes to bows, speed matters. The ballista, even with 100% IAS on the thing, will never fire as fast as the Windforce can be made to fire.

Granted, the damage is very similar. If you're not pushing for break points, then it doesn't matter what you use; get what you can afford.

The really neat thing is that a ballista on the realms costs a few pgems, at best, if it's a higher ED% roll (the lower ones can't even be sold hardly). So you can get an end-game crossbow for nothing. That's fantastic. That means, for the cost it's one of the best missile weapons in the game, if not the best, but again, for it's cost.

Up'd the damage does go up a bit, not by much though. Question is, do you want to drop a Pul for a few more damage on it. The base damage of a Colossus Xbow is 91. It has a 163 str req. The ballista can only get 200% ED at best, which is not much, the real damage comes from the "X damage per level". A perfect buriza at 200% as a colossus xbow is only 96-273, +2.5 max damage per clvl, so at level 80 for example, another 200 damage to maximum damage, or 96-473 damage listed at clvl 80 on a perfect balista. Huge str req increase, and it costs you a Pul. The normal buriza at level 80 is 99-165+2.5d per clvl, which is 200, or 99-365 at level 80. So the damage increase for a level 80 character, with a perfect 200% ED balista is 108 maximum damage. If you look at 108 damage, and think about your dex, other sources of ED like a might merc, that could be affected by upwards of 500% ED pretty quickly (300 dex, more from might, etc) which results in 500 damage added to your max damage. That's not much actually for a weapon upgrade that costs pul. Overall, you don't need to up the buriza. The STR req is not nice and you'd get more damage just from having all that STR req in your DEX instead, which translates directly as more damage.

Cheers, :)

[dknomisdk]

Thx, good answers.

I still think these mods:

Adds 32-196 Cold Damage - 8 Second Duration
Piercing Attack (100)
Freezes Target +3
+75-150 Defense(varies)
+35 to Dexterity

Are very cool! But it does make sense though... A bow does look a lot better to, in my opinion at least!

[lumpor]

Crossbows are inherenty slower than bows and can't reach the same break points as easily.

For an amazon!

Amazons aren't the only class who can use bows. Actually, all 7 can

[KremBanan]

For an amazon!

Amazons aren't the only class who can use bows. Actually, all 7 can

What is your point here actually? That they are faster on other chars?

[lumpor]

Yes. Crossbows aren't always slower than bows, like malveaux said. For zons they are, but everyone's not a zon.

[Arek]

Yes. Crossbows aren't always slower than bows, like malveaux said. For zons they are, but everyone's not a zon.

thats not true. cbows are slower for every character.

[lumpor]

Necromancers for instance

[stephan]

Necromancers can reach max 10 fpa with a bow and max 11 fpa with a crossbow.

[Arek]

EDIT: what stephan said :)

[lumpor]

I know, but that's maximum speed. Always means when you haven't reached the fastest bp too

[KremBanan]

Yes. Crossbows aren't always slower than bows, like malveaux said. For zons they are, but everyone's not a zon.
Necromancers for instance
Necromancers can reach max 10 fpa with a bow and max 11 fpa with a crossbow.

What the guy above said.

[KremBanan]

I know, but that's maximum speed. Always means when you haven't reached the fastest bp too

What do you mean exactly?

[MalVeauX]

Lol,

Yes, yes. Heaven forbid we are talking about a non-amazon character here in The amazon forum in regards to speeds and break points.

Cheers, :D

[mackemradge]

WF every time.

I have a Frostmaiden with a Shael'ed WF, but I do keep a Buriza on switch. The Buriza was my primary weapon and got me through NM but when I found my WF my Zon has not looked back.

Yes, damage and breakpoints and ias all point to the WF, but for me it just looks so much better than the buriza.

I keep it on switch just in case I run out of arrows, doesn't happen very often, but it has saved my butt a couple of times.

[lumpor]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that a necromancer in bearform will always attack faster with a demon crossbow than a great bow because they both have the same cap but demon crossbow gets a better start.

Anyway, sorry for bringing this off-topic but:

Windforce deals more raw damage and is faster (for zons :P). Two things that are quite hard to compromise

[droid]

When did they change it so you could up Burizas? I havent played a Burizon for yeeears, but I remember it used to be an "exception" to the upping formula. Did that change when they introduced synergies and pumped monster def way up?

[sevencreature]

Buriza was pretty good wepon for WW druid in the past IIRC. Not sure about today. That's the only possible way to use it (for me at least) :whistling:

[Arek]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention that a necromancer in bearform will always attack faster with a demon crossbow than a great bow because they both have the same cap but demon crossbow gets a better start.

Anyway, sorry for bringing this off-topic but:

Windforce deals more raw damage and is faster (for zons :P). Two things that are quite hard to compromise

:) but windforce can be faster than buriza for every character even in bear form. you are a little confusing when you post about necromancer in bearform with demon cbow.

to the theme. buriza in NM/until you can wield WF :)

EDIT: some minor changes :D

[0blique]

When did they change it so you could up Burizas? I havent played a Burizon for yeeears, but I remember it used to be an "exception" to the upping formula. Did that change when they introduced synergies and pumped monster def way up?

You could always upgrade unique exceptional weapons using the formula on ladder ever since 1.10 came out. But it's rare because of the reasons mentioned earlier. Of course, 1.10 is when all the synergies came into play, so you are correct.

[Master Zap]

:) but windforce can be faster than buriza for every character even in bear form. you are a little confusing when you post about necromancer in bearform with demon cbow.

to the theme. buriza in NM/until you can wield WF :)

EDIT: some minor changes :D



This is wrong. Shifters are nearly exclusively reliant to (WIAS) ON wep ias. Both Wf and buriza have the same base speed at 10. WF has 40 ias on it assuming you sheal it. Buriza has 100 ias when shealed. For a shifter this makes all the difference



Teh Proof is in the pudding

TheDragoons wereform IAS/FHR calculator (http://home.comcast.net/~thedragoon/wereformadvanced.html)

Shifter druid using Maul with his Shealed Windforce and 25ias off wep (ik gloves/boots)

Mauls at 10fpa

Even if you were to get 100 extra Oias , your still only hitting 9fpa.


Same Shifter using Buriza Mauls at 7fpa.
This is a hefty speed difference to the shifter.

the fact that we can debate which is better, Buriza or Wf is a testament to how fabulous the ol'noob cannon is when you consider how easy it is to find/trade.

The shifter is the one place where Buriza is much better.

[NumtyDoo]

I use the ballista on my LF/CS/FA zon. The mods on ballista really seem to add to the freeze length. If I was using the bow for physical damage as well, I would find the speed on WF more helpful.