My first HC character ever.

[PCyph]

Hey guys, I've decided after years of on and off softcore play that its time for me to play hardcore, only thing is I've read tons of HC builds and can't really decide because of my limited knowledge.

In softcore every season my most played character was always a hammerdin, can someone tell me if a hammerdin is doable in hardcore? I tend to die once in a while when surrounded by enemies(but I of course wouldn't let myself get to that point in HC) but I'm just worried that around 70-80 levels my char dies because it sucks :wave:

Can anyone recommend a build to me if hammerdin is obsolete in HC? Thanks.

[idontcareifitsakreadytake]

Make either a Fishy, or an Orb sorc.
Orb is more fun but your merc will do the killing till level 24. It's worth it.
Then get equipment with those chars to build your next builds.

[Kragujevac]

In the same vein, start with either a MF barb, Sorc or Fishy. You don't need twink gear for them, just build up that mf and keep running for items. Or get in the good graces of some and they might help you out.

[MrBill]

Hey guys, I've decided after years of on and off softcore play that its time for me to play hardcore, only thing is I've read tons of HC builds and can't really decide because of my limited knowledge.

In softcore every season my most played character was always a hammerdin, can someone tell me if a hammerdin is doable in hardcore? I tend to die once in a while when surrounded by enemies(but I of course wouldn't let myself get to that point in HC) but I'm just worried that around 70-80 levels my char dies because it sucks :wave:

Can anyone recommend a build to me if hammerdin is obsolete in HC? Thanks.

For the record -- and contrary to what you'll hear from a number of other posters here -- I think that Hammerdins and Sorceresses (of all types), while you can get through Hardcore Hell with them, are significantly more difficult than several other character classes.

Ignoring the specific limitations of these classes (e.g. "your @#$% hammers can't hit squat, when you're in a confined space" and "no matter what you do, half the monsters will always be immune to your main elemental attack in Hell"), there's a much more fundamental issue, namely that Sorceresses and Paladins -- along with Barbarians -- don't get any minions to take the pressure off poor old Waheed, when the Extra Strong, Extra Fast, Cursed Champion Frenzytaurs with Fanaticism come roaring around the corner with blood in their eyes. After Waheed takes the dirt nap in one hit, the slightest bit of lag means that you're next, because there the Frenzytaurs have nobody else left to target. I have lost a couple of Paladins and Sorcs in exactly this way.

Diablo II LoD is a badly unbalanced game in this context, because as far as I can tell it seems to send the same hordes of monsters against a single-character party of a Sorceress or Paladin as it does against a Summoner Druid or Necro -- both of whom can have a respectable sized army fighting on their side -- or even against an Amazon or Assassin (how many of these have you ever seen without a Valkyrie or Shadow Warrior / Master? Right. I rest my case). Note that also, unlike Barbarians and Druids, Sorcs and Pallies don't get any skill that boosts their red life bulb; this makes solo'ing with only a single merc even more problematic.

All of this makes Paladins and Sorceresses even more gear-dependent than they'd otherwise be, since they need to have a powerful enough attack and enough hit points to drop these hordes of monsters before they can drop you.

I suppose if you don't mind Save and Exit / re-rolling games a lot (I do, because I think it's kind of like a low-level cheat in Hardcore... nothing to be ashamed about, but not something that I do if I have a choice), you could do it with a Sorc or Hammerdin... but even there, if you're solo'ing a lot (which I do), it can be very frustrating in places like Act III with the Compelling Orb (if you use your Khalim's Will to open the way to Durance I and then meet monsters that you can't safely fight, you have to fight your way past the Council again, when you re-roll the game).

If you must play a Hammerdin, I'd suggest an Act II Nightmare Holy Freeze merc with a big Insight stick, and don't forget to get Redemption and Holy Shield (you will need blocking, trust me on this one) up to a decent level; if you must play a Sorceress, personally I think that something like Frozen Orb, Firewall (or Hydra) with 10 or so points into Static Field, along with an Act II Normal Prayer merc with the same big Insight stick (try to get a 17 Meditation Insight, it really helps the synergy with Prayer and keeps Waheed in the fight longer) is a good idea. (Don't forget a point or two in Enchant, or have a +3 natural / +5 Enchant Leaf staff on switch, especially if you are going for Cold or Lightening as your primary attack, it really helps Waheed hit if you're fighting monsters over your own level. Another dirty little trick is to shop a Life Tap wand and use it on switch when the Frenzytaurs come to call; Waheed will survive a few seconds more before you have to plop a purple happy pill on his head.)

If you're poor or are starting out, try to get Waheed something like Boneflesh or Crow Caw for body armor (let it bleed, baby!), but the minute that you can afford a nice ethereal Treachery or Duress, slap it on him. I'm fond of crafted Blood hats for Act II mercs, but if you find something better like Stealskull give him that (actually, even a Lore made out of an ethereal exceptional or elite hat makes a highly effective, and dirt-cheap, hat for Waheed, a little PDR never hurts after all).

Of course, I've had my best luck with (a) Summoner Necros, (b) Trapper Assassins and (c) Plague Javelin Amazons, in that order, but as always, Your Mileage May Vary.

Good luck,

Mr. Bill

[idontcareifitsakreadytake]

For the record -- and contrary to what you'll hear from a number of other posters here -- I think that Hammerdins and Sorceresses (of all types), while you can get through Hardcore Hell with them, are significantly more difficult than several other character classes.

Ignoring the specific limitations of these classes (e.g. "your @#$% hammers can't hit squat, when you're in a confined space" and "no matter what you do, half the monsters will always be immune to your main elemental attack in Hell"), there's a much more fundamental issue, namely that Sorceresses and Paladins -- along with Barbarians -- don't get any minions to take the pressure off poor old Waheed, when the Extra Strong, Extra Fast, Cursed Champion Frenzytaurs with Fanaticism come roaring around the corner with blood in their eyes. After Waheed takes the dirt nap in one hit, the slightest bit of lag means that you're next, because there the Frenzytaurs have nobody else left to target. I have lost a couple of Paladins and Sorcs in exactly this way.

Diablo II LoD is a badly unbalanced game in this context, because as far as I can tell it seems to send the same hordes of monsters against a single-character party of a Sorceress or Paladin as it does against a Summoner Druid or Necro -- both of whom can have a respectable sized army fighting on their side -- or even against an Amazon or Assassin (how many of these have you ever seen without a Valkyrie or Shadow Warrior / Master? Right. I rest my case). Note that also, unlike Barbarians and Druids, Sorcs and Pallies don't get any skill that boosts their red life bulb; this makes solo'ing with only a single merc even more problematic.

All of this makes Paladins and Sorceresses even more gear-dependent than they'd otherwise be, since they need to have a powerful enough attack and enough hit points to drop these hordes of monsters before they can drop you.

I suppose if you don't mind Save and Exit / re-rolling games a lot (I do, because I think it's kind of like a low-level cheat in Hardcore... nothing to be ashamed about, but not something that I do if I have a choice), you could do it with a Sorc or Hammerdin... but even there, if you're solo'ing a lot (which I do), it can be very frustrating in places like Act III with the Compelling Orb (if you use your Khalim's Will to open the way to Durance I and then meet monsters that you can't safely fight, you have to fight your way past the Council again, when you re-roll the game).

If you must play a Hammerdin, I'd suggest an Act II Nightmare Holy Freeze merc with a big Insight stick, and don't forget to get Redemption and Holy Shield (you will need blocking, trust me on this one) up to a decent level; if you must play a Sorceress, personally I think that something like Frozen Orb, Firewall (or Hydra) with 10 or so points into Static Field, along with an Act II Normal Prayer merc with the same big Insight stick (try to get a 17 Meditation Insight, it really helps the synergy with Prayer and keeps Waheed in the fight longer) is a good idea. (Don't forget a point or two in Enchant, or have a +3 natural / +5 Enchant Leaf staff on switch, especially if you are going for Cold or Lightening as your primary attack, it really helps Waheed hit if you're fighting monsters over your own level. Another dirty little trick is to shop a Life Tap wand and use it on switch when the Frenzytaurs come to call; Waheed will survive a few seconds more before you have to plop a purple happy pill on his head.)

If you're poor or are starting out, try to get Waheed something like Boneflesh or Crow Caw for body armor (let it bleed, baby!), but the minute that you can afford a nice ethereal Treachery or Duress, slap it on him. I'm fond of crafted Blood hats for Act II mercs, but if you find something better like Stealskull give him that (actually, even a Lore made out of an ethereal exceptional or elite hat makes a highly effective, and dirt-cheap, hat for Waheed, a little PDR never hurts after all).

Of course, I've had my best luck with (a) Summoner Necros, (b) Trapper Assassins and (c) Plague Javelin Amazons, in that order, but as always, Your Mileage May Vary.

Good luck,

Mr. Bill

I pointed out you get items with them, running NM Andy//Meph//Baal can get you some damned nice items:
Zaka, Occy, Homu, Arreats, other char specifics and some nice sets etc...

[Swordslash]

My HC Hammerdin is L73 and running NM Meph easily. I play single player though, so no worry about lag (can't imagine playing HC online...) I almost died a couple times but it was mainly due to laziness. Just keep a stack of rejuvs in belt, pump your vit and don't do crazy things. NM Meph can drop a lot of good stuff, and is easy street for a L73 Hammerdin. I got past Hell Den of Evil for the skill point, and ran Act 5 Nightmare for the levels / Anya-resist etc. Frigid Highlands WP is a great /players 8 leveling spot for single player.

[Hyrma]

My HC Hammerdin is L73 and running NM Meph easily. I play single player though, so no worry about lag (can't imagine playing HC online...)

Lag is our worst enemy.

[AgentMarth]

Pfft, lag ain't that bad if you know how to deal with it.

Twice I had a huge spike while Baaling last night, once on the port to Throne, once right when I was where the waves were spawning. Did I leave, pfft, no. I knew I could take it well enough.

And strange enough, even with all the extra people playing because of the D3 announced, the lag has been barely there as of late. I had maybe 4 spikes yesterday total, which was like all I had all week.

As for the topic, I say Fishymancer. He helps get the basics for every other char, and is safe and easy enough.

[MCPWTB]

Assuming untwinked play:

Summoner Necro:
skeletons, clay golem, dim vision, amp damage, corpse explosion, bone armor and decrep.

Trap sin:
mind blast, fade, corpse explosion, Light traps, max fire blast(or +18). Don't need a summon because mind blast is fine with fast enough cast rate.

Druid: Bear
High health + oak sage = not scared of anything except when amped by a cursed monster.
Fire claw with a decent fast physical damage weapon and a quick swap buriza or otherwise Iron Maiden immune weapon. I think my bear has 22% PDR, no problems so far into act 4 hell.
Or a summoner.

No it's still not 'easy' mode for the entire game, despite what people say about fishymancers or [insert class]. Maggot lair is the classic example of where you want teleport, because, **** those beetles. Also, Terror doesn't work as well as hoped for.

One thing I hate are using melee units in hardcore because iron maiden and corpse explosions can be ridiculously strong. This is why I recommend a ridiculously high health melee unit, a durable ranged unit(sin), and a durable summoner(necro).

Waheed is the act 2 merc:
If you have a shaftstop this works well on Waheed.
If you have a rockstopper, same deal, this keeps Waheed alive.
Get some crushing blow on him.
Prayer/insight Waheed can be great, with some CB from armor or helmet.
Defiance can also be awesome, since it is fairly difficult to get max block in untwinked d2.
Holy freeze is too good as well, and it really doesn't matter in most cases if a corpse pops because of the cold, even with a sin or a necro.

[Unholy_VI]

The poster who mentioned minion classes was right on.

If you plan to play a lot of hardcore and make a lot of characters though here is my suggestion:

1) get another set of key codes (buy them legit of course) and install the game either on a second computer or look up threads on how to play two instances of the game on one computer.

2) as soon as you get a good amount of level 1-30 or so twinking gear from your main guy, then roll a sorceress on a second account. rush her to the end of act 4 then level her up to 20 and get her to Nightmare (where presumably your main is.) Max enchant, fire mastery, and warmth. at that point never level or Mf with that character again. Now every time you play your main you can leave the sorc in the game to enchant your army for a couple of grand worth of fire damage per attack that lasts for ~13 min or more depending how much + skills gear you give her.

3) make a third account (no new CD keys needed here you can have as many accounts as you like.) make a barb. give him a few items with plusses to resists and maybe life to wear when he gets around level 15-20. have him buy a short bow and a bunch of arrows. Enchant him and turn him loose! no need to rush this guy he'll mow everything down himself quite nicely. Build 1 point in bash and leap if you really feel the need. 1 in howl 20 in shout 20 in battle orders and 20 in battle command.

Again. once this is completed this character will never fight another battle.

I just did this recently and I wish I'd done it weeks ago. I would be so far ahead of where I am now with building wealth. an item that will help greatly with leveling the sorc is the unique long bow ravenclaw. it shoots exploding arrows and the enchant gets applied to the entire splash. If you manage to get 2 you might use one for the new characters you make too.

[sudkamp]

First off how many computers do you have and cdkeys.

If you have more than 1 computer, a lot of people level two untwinked characters at the same time.
- Blizzard Sorc
- Bo Barb.

If your playing the normal untwinked way, and SOLO'ing most of the time, I recommend making a lightning trapsin. The trapsin is very hard to die, and pretty good at funding craap for your magic find blizzard sorc.

The hammerdin should not be made until your magic find sorc or what not is ready.

A lot of things will determine how you play to start with.
1. Are you solo?
2. Do you have people to rush you?
3. Do you have more than 1 computer?
4. DO you have access to chant?
5. And so on and so on.

It really depends, on what assumptions you make.

[DaveW]

Is it worth building up a char with enough strength to wield Demon's Limb? It has l23 Enchant and just needs a Ort to recharge the charges. Or is a pure Enchantress the way to go? I play mainly SP too but dabble in the Banana channels sometimes too.
EDIT: Disregard my post. I just checked one in my stash.

Demon Limb
Tyrant Club
One-Hand Damage: 93 to 169
Durability: 65 of 65
Required Strength: 133 <<<<<<<<<<
Required Level: 63 <<<<<<<<<<<
Mace Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 75
Fingerprint: 0xe53714f9
+192% Enhanced Damage
Fire Resist +17%
Adds 222-333 fire damage
11% Life stolen per hit
123% Damage to Demons
150% Damage to Undead
Level 23 Enchant (4/20 Charges)
Repairs 1 durability in 20 seconds

The strength and character level requirements mean the player may as well build an Enchantress.

[Unholy_VI]

I have 3 sets of CD-keys and 2 comps.

I can't imagine actually playing 2 chars at once but I do keep the enchanter and the BO barb in my game outside of town in an out of the way place. It makes the game 3 players instead of one and allows me to quickly refresh the BO shout command and enchant when needed.

In baal runs I clear out area right before the throne room and park the enchanter and BO barb there then do the waves with my trapper. in NM and so far this works. if a random monster did happen to walk over to where my other chars are the mercs would finish it very quickly but so far that hasn't happened.

[PCyph]

You guys are awesome, after about a novel of reading im thinking of going with a barb or a sorc. Thanks for all the help, :D