Barry and others, pvp idea...

[Unholy_VI]

Ok I'll get right to the point.

I was mulling over some low level PK ideas and I had a thought that I believe is pretty much original.

I was thinking about the sorc and kind of grumbling to myself about how there really isn't a very good low level build for a PK sorc under level 30 then I had a flash of inspiration. There is ONE thing a sorc can do pre level 20 that no other class can do:

Teleport. why is that important? Because with any other class the merc is reduced to a bystander in pking since he can't keep up with the fast pace of runnnig someone down in pvp. But a sorc can teleport right on top of someone.

After mulling it over some more I thought about what skills would such a sorc have. I came up with frost nova. Pitiful damage but against the 99% of pvmers who are not running around with CBF in the level 9-25ish range the length of the chill is enormous. maybe a few in warmth too or one of the cold armors.

So how to build it? Firstly all the + damage jewels and such are going to the merc. I'm picturing something like an ethereal malice pike or maybe even just a good ol fashion 6 slot with as many nasty damage gems as you can find and maybe stuff the rest of the slots with Ith runes. or if you want to be really cheap just 6 Ith runes in an ethereal pike ought to hurt a lot.

so for the sorc herself.. I'm thinknig this. enough dex for max block. enough str for weapons and other gear. rare bone shield with of deflection possibly gemmed with Eld for increased block. maybe a death's sash for CBF 3 sock armor/helm with perf rubies. as many life charms as possible mana shouldn't be much of an issue but if it is maybe a few mana charm as well or a perf saphire instead of one of the rubies or even just dump some stat points into energy. This char ought to be looking mostly to gear for life since she gets so little return from actual stat points.

the rest of the gear pretty much normal. fast run/walk boots of some sort, maybe angelic rings for AR (might not be needed), everything else geared toward life/resists.

now for the rest... there are a couple of options:

bloodfist gloves and a fast weapon with bash charges.
cleg's gloves and either a very fast weapon or possibly a scepter with zeal

The idea is pure simplicity. You teleport on top of them with a character that has pretty well massive life because of not needing to gem/charm for damage at all. Instantly they are getting hit by a really nasty merc while slowed from frost nova. while all of that is going on they are getting battered around like a ping-pong ball from your bash or cleg's.

could it work?
what if any changes to the basic idea would you recommend?

[AzaZaz]

at this point in the stage, nothing is original :P


build your sorc without buying any gear or whtever, and then try to tele around at level 18 and tell me how far you get.

You'll end up chugging a whole belt of mana pots b4 you even find anyone. And then because all your points are pumped into energy, with your rocking 150 life you'll mistep in act 2 or 3 and get smoked by a pack of skeles or something :P

[Jarath]

You know what would be a novel idea? Attempting to PK players with a regular PVM build, or a character that isn't tooled up and totally unkillable to anyone of equal level.

[Unholy_VI]

Hmm... well a reply is a reply I guess.

But either you are trying to be funny (which it is. It did give me a laugh) or you really don't get the idea. I think with rubies where most low level pkers would want and need damage gems and most of an inventory fully of life charms the life will be ohhh lets just say slightly more than 150. just a bit.

as far as 'tele around chugging potions till I run out of mana..' no. more like RUN around until I find my target, one or two quick teles and a frost nova and gg.

Oh, and if it hasn't been discussed and debated here.. its pretty much a new idea as far as I know or care.

I'm collecting the gear I'll need as we speak. Just thought some more experienced types here could provide useful feedback on items or other areas of the build. Useful being the key word.

But I guess anything that fuels the discussion is fine. so not really useful, but funny... I'll settle for that!

Cheers

[Unholy_VI]

You know what would be a novel idea? Attempting to PK players with a regular PVM build, or a character that isn't tooled up and totally unkillable to anyone of equal level.

Jarath that would be a great option if not for the fact that the PVP in this game is designed more around level 90+ softcore PVP than what we low level pkers do.

'Only doing 1/6 of your normal damage in PVP is pretty much acceptable and needed if you have a level 90 doing say...a 25k fireball. but for a level 18 your choices really are limittred and if you don't kill quickly your target just exits the game with alt+f4 or steps through a portal or whatever.

but you've been around a long time and you know all of this. Just don't go outside when you see the little skull and crossbones and you'll be fine. I'm sure if you ever ran into a PVPer that came after you with a PVM character you would run to town just as fast and hate them just as much.

Why don't YOU try a novel idea and not respond in threads discussing PVP which seems to be your least favorite part of this really awesome game? Or even start a thread something like 'why Unholy_VI and all the other PKers are tools and I hate them' and I promise not to even bother reading it much less reply.

K thanks. :wave:

[Jarath]

I did actually try PKing with an untwinked character before, it was fairly entertaining because if people took a moment to realise I wasn't some ridiculously twinked out unkillable toon they seemed more keen to fight and we had a semblance of what could be described as PVP combat. Of course, I had to be a lot more careful about who I hostiled especially since this was back in the day when pierce was bugged and Amazon's killed everything in 2 guided arrows. :p I only ended up with a handful of ears in the end but at the time it seemed like a giggle, when I was an angsty teenager who hated EVERYTHING and I didn't care about pissing in other people's cereal.

[Baranor]

No its not... I have done a lot of that, with nothing but shop-bought gear. If you stick a 100+ damage weapon on a clvl 16 paladin, you can do 100+ pvp per hit, which is enough to kill people.

sorry... nothing is original. Unless you fancy a) a level 18 hammerdin (done that at the start of 1.10, was the only one I ever saw... 30 PvP/hit) b) a charged strike zon (works, though if someone has LR you're done for) or c) an impalazon (doesnt work... I tried... just toooooo slow!)

Oh no, wait, those aint original either. ;)

You know what would be a novel idea? Attempting to PK players with a regular PVM build, or a character that isn't tooled up and totally unkillable to anyone of equal level.

[Relativity]

Original = Lvl 18 bone necro peekay!

[NightShade]

Nothing is original after 10 years or so ^.~

[Unholy_VI]

Hmmm... so NOTHING is new eh?

OK I understand why you might say that and believe it but I'm going to do my best to prove you wrong.

I'm building this sorc as we speak and After thinking it over I feel like an objective criteria of its 'newness' will be my success at getting pvmers to stay in the game when I go hostile and not immediately quit when I get on the screen with them.

If all goes according to plan then I should have some ears from the community of players to show for it.

Level 18 hammerdin... meh. People are just going to assume you are a charger and not mess with it. Same with any 'new' assassin build or the like.

Something with a pre-level 20 necro would be interesting and probably very successful if someone came up with a solid build idea. No one I know of exactly runs from necroes at that level.

I'll post again when I have some good screenshots and some ears to show or if I just go out and get waxed right away I'll post that too and take my medicine.

[Raith]

Nothing is original after 10 years or so ^.~

starcraft still has originality. ;O

[Baranor]

Well, people wont see it coming, which is something different from "original" and "new"...


Necromancers huh? Baranor's Automated Library Retrieval System (TM!) came up with the following results in no particular order:

Magnus ran around with a hugely, hugely succesfull necromancer with Sacrifice Charges. Amp + say 400% ED from a weapon + jackload of wraths and carnages = PAIN. It is kinda like using a Cleglaws sword on a Sacadin, but you get 100% DS ;) A tad slower, but still.

I think Toliphar came up with this thing: A level 16 or so necromancer with 1 pt into Bone Shield and the rest into Bone Wall, bar a single point in AMP. How does he kill? He doesnt... he merely puts a lot of bone walls between the PK and the way out for the PK, and his Merc, equipped with a 300 listed damage pike, does the rest... amp + jabbediejabjab= dead pk.

Another fun way to kill people is to use a throwing spear and AMP... again, nobody sees this coming, and the other classes that can do this ...Amazone... only critical strike, and that at a % of the time, so throw wise you outdamage them, Barbarians , mastery grants 15% or so CS, and then they CAN whip out more damage, but its a spike damage, and Paladins (might + throw is the most damaging throw attack at those levels) dont have Bone Armor, and you can still equip a merc with a 300 damage pike :whistling:... if someone does get close... *jab jab * *splat*. At any rate, in 1.09 throw damage only suffered 1/2th PvP penalty which made this build about as dangerous as a throwing barbarian, but nobody ever noticed that... didn't you use one Shade?

And last but not least is to simply equip Clegs Sword, stick yourself full of IAS and Wraths/Carnages, AMP someone and hope for that quadrouple damage hit that kills people. Not as strong as a Sacanec, but it can still hurt like hell... after all.. DS is double listed and AMP is again double that so eventually you end up with an attack that's roughly 4 times listed damage.

I also tried using Leadcrow as it comes with DS, but I could only cough up about 100-120 listed damage which does not do enough damage to kill anyone expect for a level 1 sorc. Which you cannot attack.

Wadda ya wanna do?
-> Retrieve Gear Options
-> Return to Insanity Index

[Enigma]

There's a couple of problems with that build. I made it in the past so I know from experience that:

-Your merc is at best retarded. He's slow, moves all over the place and never really attacks what you want him to attack. He could attack monsters near the target easely.

-This build is made for mobility. If you want to walk, walk it. But the power is in the fast tele/reach action. People don't usually stay around for that long, and a sorc is not the fastest char. You'd want to tele all the time, and for that the mana required is heavy. It is doable however with plenty of charms, but who really wants to put charms on an 18 sorc

-The damage you will reach at max is probably not over 600. That's 100 PvP, and it's very volatile seeing as you will be using an eth pike. So most likely 50 PvP average, not that great if you plan on killing anything. The FPA he will reach will not be very fast. Also, you will not take advantage of any aura (unless you go with a might merc) or curses like a necro would. Might merc is in nightmare, meaning you will have to switch char to see normal games, a pain in my opinion.

-Your merc will be glass cannon at lvl 18, he takes the full PVM dmg when in Pvp. Monster can also harm him. Not to mention his FHR is very bad.

If you have the budget to buy all those 15 maxers and charms, I suggest just making a thrower/pally/bowazon etc. The originality factor is nice, but frustrating in the case it doesn't really work. If you really desire to be unique, I suggest maybe a fire sorc with leaf staff, or an iceblaster even. I did get some ears with those, and they were fun to play/cheap as I didn't have to rely on my merc to do it.

The tele sorc is best at lvl 27 with insight eth partizan if you're interested in pking baal runs.

[Baranor]

Merc PvP penalty is 1/2nd, so 600 listed is 300 pvp/hit... ;)

[Enigma]

Merc PvP penalty is 1/2nd, so 600 listed is 300 pvp/hit... ;)

I've heard of this before, and in my opinion, it is only a lingering rumor. from the "ultimate merc guide" here http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306061 :

"Attacking Penalty
-----------------------
Players 17%
Hirelings 25%
Golems 100%
Monsters 100%
Minions 100%
Norm Act Boss 50%
NM Act Boss 35%
Hell Act Boss 25%

So they only do their full damage versus normal monsters, minions ( like a necromancers skeletons ) and Golems.

They do half damage versus all Normal Act Bosses.

35% Damage to NM Act Bosses

25% Damage to other players hirelings , and to Hell Act Bosses

And only 17% Damage versus other players in PvP."

I'd have to agree with the above statement, as I have never actually been hit for that much on any merc. It is true that prior to patch 1.10, merc dmg was bugged, but I don't think it is the case anymore. If you have a link to prove that merc actually does 1/2, you can pm it to me as I'd like to know for sure. It could also be tested, but I am too lazy to do it ;)

[Unholy_VI]

I too was under the

assumption that mercs do 1/2 listed damage in pvp. Of course I've never tested that theory but I know of several second hand accounts of people whose last words were 'let me duel your merc. Arrggghh!!!'

:whistling: One of them was a friend of mine. he made some sort of super dueling-quality barb pvp char. Another friend of ours was helping him level up and like the instant he got the level he needed to equip all his gear he excitedly demanded to duel the other friend's merc just to 'test it out'.

needless to say...

I'm going to make the character and try it out anyhow and see what's what. If my merc just owns people then we can pretty much assume its half damage since there really is no other way this character will be able to hurt anything.