View Full Version : Baal Grand Charm
What are the chances of baal hell dropping a grand charm, so that i can use when rolling.
I don't know why people say rolling Grand Charms are not profitable. I collect flawless gems all the time and easily get 100-150 pgems at the end of week, from not even trying.
ThomasJohnsen
21-08-2008, 16:49
What are the chances of baal hell dropping a grand charm, so that i can use when rolling.
1 in 265 Hell Baal kills will net one GC (1 player game, 1 player party, 0 mf).
Source ATMA V.
I don't know why people say rolling Grand Charms are not profitable. I collect flawless gems all the time and easily get 100-150 pgems at the end of week, from not even trying.
And you can spend them all plus several hundred more inside of 10 mins to get a decent skiller with a 41-45 affix.
Roll a curse skiller with 45 life and buy a new keyboard.
Roll a curse skiller with 45 life and buy a new keyboard.
That is funny stuff....
Chances are, u'll be rolling 500+ before seeing something actually worth quite a bit. Even then there are chances for curse w/45life
ThomasJohnsen
21-08-2008, 21:07
To quote myself (since noone else ever quotes me :grin:):
NOTE: Grand charms have 98 prefixes (21 skill prefixes) and 36 suffixes available, and they all have alvl 91 or below. Since magic items have 25% chance of spawning both prefix+suffix, you will have 21/98 * 1/36 * 25% = 0.15% chance (1 in 672) of rolling (3 PGs recipe) a skiller with vita suffix from an ilvl 91+ Grand charm. This is why these charms are so very valuable.
You will need loads of PGs :greedy:.
Actually it's worse than that.
Due to not all affixes having the same frequency of occurance, the chance to get a skiller is really 21/242 or about 1/11-1/12.
As a suffix, the 41-45 vita mod has a 4x frequncy mod (as do all suffixes other than the elemental damage ones) which gives it a 1/25 (4/100) chance to roll overall at level 99.
So overall you're looking at about 1 in 1162 odds of rolling a skiller with 41+ vita.
I actually like those odds, I've alreayd rolled 300. Collected 100 pgems simply from trading in 1 day.
My aim is going for 1000 pgms, hopefully for +30 hp with combat. The rewards for finding such a charm is great. Patience pays off.
I forgot to thank you all for the informatio
BIG THANXs
I will report on my progress of rolling 1000 pgems. In regards to rolling 300. I found 6 skillers out of 300 pgems. 3 of which were actually tradable and useful. :)
ThomasJohnsen
22-08-2008, 10:37
Actually it's worse than that.
Due to not all affixes having the same frequency of occurance, the chance to get a skiller is really 21/242 or about 1/11-1/12.
As a suffix, the 41-45 vita mod has a 4x frequncy mod (as do all suffixes other than the elemental damage ones) which gives it a 1/25 (4/100) chance to roll overall at level 99.
So overall you're looking at about 1 in 1162 odds of rolling a skiller with 41+ vita.
Thank you for that correction.
Will update my link with the frequencies, when I get the chance.
krischan
22-08-2008, 13:59
Regarding "patience will pay off": In this case it actually won't on a long term. If you want to make a profit, better sell the gems and let the others do the rerolling. However, from a certain point on it might become too annoying to mule these pgems. In that case have a Baal GC on each of your important PvM characters and reroll them as soon as you have 3 pgems.
Regarding "patience will pay off": In this case it actually won't on a long term. If you want to make a profit, better sell the gems and let the others do the rerolling. However, from a certain point on it might become too annoying to mule these pgems. In that case have a Baal GC on each of your important PvM characters and reroll them as soon as you have 3 pgems.
I disagree with u here. I mule pgems very quick as i have friends to help me.
Like i said i collected 100 pgems in just a single day from trading.
I will keep you all informed on the results
krischan
22-08-2008, 15:53
So you are saying it pays off to buy gems and Baal GCs for let's say 100 Ist runes, rerolling and then selling them for more then 100 Ist ? OK, will you lend me 100 Ists then ? If I make a profit, I will give you half of it. We don't have to care about what happens if it turns out to be a loss, correct ?
You cannot make a profit by buying A and B for cheap and then selling the result of sticking A and B together if there is no luck involved (e.g. when you are doing it so often that outstanding events are evened out).
You should take care of not getting scammed by the Nigerian guys :azn:
Regarding your 100 pgems example, there is so much variation involved that you need perhaps 1000 times as many rolls on GCs to produce meaningful statistics about it. That means your 33 rerolls will neither prove nor disprove your point of view.
just being lazy for a moment by not looking this up.....
does it matter what level you are when rerolling a grand charm to get +skill/vita? could I do it on a level 1 mule, or must i do it on a 90+ character to get the mods i want, or to have better chances?
ThomasJohnsen
22-08-2008, 18:24
does it matter what level you are when rerolling a grand charm to get +skill/vita? could I do it on a level 1 mule, or must i do it on a 90+ character to get the mods i want, or to have better chances?
Level (clvl) has no influence.
cool - i'll just give my lvl 1 pgem mule a cube, and get him to work some magic.
@krischan: while the chance of rolling a +pala combat skiller with 45 life is rather slim, even in d2 terms, odds of rolling a skiller (any skiller, with or without suffix) is pretty good, and while they wont make u rich they are pretty useful
krischan
22-08-2008, 20:23
I agree, but I was referring to making a profit and that's something different than rolling up something useful. Sometimes I stop rerolling a Baal GC if the result is among my needs, but worth less than a Baal GC on its own - but only if it would be hard to buy one in a trade, so the investment of time doesn't justify trading for it.
i get them like.. 2:1 ratio in terms of small charms..
Let me get this straight.... In order to roll a really useful charm (like ones that give +skill), it's not my character lvl that's important, but lvl of charm ?
ThomasJohnsen
23-08-2008, 10:01
Let me get this straight.... In order to roll a really useful charm (like ones that give +skill), it's not my character lvl that's important, but lvl of charm ?
Right.
But you should save your PGs for high level charms IMO (to have the rare off-chance of rolling a vita skiller), unless you are looking for specific affixes for lower levels. For Grand Charms ilvl = alvl, so if you need an affix of level X, you can just roll on a GC dropped by a normal monster in an area of level X.
Note though, that this is not true for Large and Small charms, since they have a qlvl > 1 (and thus not ilvl = alvl).
Lithanor
26-08-2008, 00:55
cant you just rerole and existing crappy skiller like defence aura's as much as you like or will the rerole lvl effect the second rerole? so if im right you can only rerole every GC you find once since it will probably get a low lvl when you rerole them?
BTW better farm GC with high lvl in the pit then baal i think...
do grand charms dropped by baal's 5 waves of minions have the same chances of spawning any/all mods, compared to baal himself?
cant you just rerole and existing crappy skiller like defence aura's as much as you like or will the rerole lvl effect the second rerole? so if im right you can only rerole every GC you find once since it will probably get a low lvl when you rerole them?
BTW better farm GC with high lvl in the pit then baal i think...
The PGem reroll cube formula does not change the iLvl of the item, so if you reroll a baal charm and it gives you +1 dex, it's still an iLvl 99 charm with a low level mod. If you re-roll it again, it will still reroll as an iLvl 99 charm.
To clairfy: the level of mod you have on a charm can be an indication of it's iLvl since only certain mods can spawn on high level charms, but the level of the mod (aLvl) is discarded when it is rerolled.
The Pit can produce up to iLvl 88 charms if dropped by a unique/minions, but it can be hard to verify the actual monster that dropped the charm. You should be able to safely assume they are iLvl 85 though (I think). Unfortunatly the affix people look for on baal charms (The 41+ Vita) is a level 91 mod, and only charms from Nihlithak, Diablo, or Baal can spawn/roll with it. That's not to say you can't get a decent skiller with +40 life from a GC in the pit, but you could also get one in most other places in hell as it is only a level 77 affix.
do grand charms dropped by baal's 5 waves of minions have the same chances of spawning any/all mods, compared to baal himself?
The Arreat Summit site lists baals minions as level 92, but I think it is incorrect. Tests measuring experience gained as well as other information suggests they are level 88 along with all of the rest of baals minions (except for the death mages in wave 2 which are 85).
ThomasJohnsen
26-08-2008, 10:16
The Arreat Summit site lists baals minions as level 92, but I think it is incorrect. Tests measuring experience gained as well as other information suggests they are level 88 along with all of the rest of baals minions (except for the death mages in wave 2 which are 85).
MonStats.txt lists Baal's minions at level 92 too.
Are you suggesting, that the files used by ATMA are incorrect? I was under the impression, that they were extracted from encrypted game versions, and thus were reliable. Are there any other faults in them, that I should be aware of?
krischan
26-08-2008, 10:31
In nightmare and hell mode, monster levels are adjusted by area levels since V1.10. Baal minions are L88.
Only Baal, Nihlethak and Diablo can drop GCs which can have all affixes and regarding SCs it's only those from Baal and Nihlathak.
ThomasJohnsen
26-08-2008, 10:47
In nightmare and hell mode, monster levels are adjusted by area levels since V1.10. Baal minions are L88.
Only Baal, Nihlethak and Diablo can drop GCs which can have all affixes and regarding SCs it's only those from Baal and Nihlathak.
Thank you clearing that up.
where can i see what affixes a minion dropped grand charm could not have?
krischan
27-08-2008, 11:10
Here (http://diablo3.ingame.de/spiel/expansion/itemdb/affix_index.php?lang=en&version=lod&patch=111), for example.
Hey,
Looking at Krischan's chart it looks as though there isn't much use for rolling Large Baal charms. I found one the other day and was considering re-rolling it, but the affixes for Large charms simply aren't as useful per 1 space of inventory space compared with Grand or Small charms.
Pretty much just posting for some verification on my logic here.
Last off, I just noted that Small charm FRW is only 3%. Back when I played 1.09 it was 5%. Would it be worth going 1.09 charm hunting in hell cows and bringing them forward to 1.12 for some decent trade value? Thoughts?
Edit: Never mind. Brain not functioning properly.
MonStats.txt lists Baal's minions at level 92 too.
Hmm... GoMule says that items dropped by Baals minions in single player are level 88. As far as I could tell this also applied to the "Boss" of each minion pack.
Hmm... GoMule says that items dropped by Baals minions in single player are level 88. As far as I could tell this also applied to the "Boss" of each minion pack.
Only act bosses and monsters in normal difficulty use the numbers in MonStats.txt; the rest use area level (+2/+3 for minions/champions/uniques).
Only act bosses and monsters in normal difficulty use the numbers in MonStats.txt; the rest use area level (+2/+3 for minions/champions/uniques).
Indeed, though there are other minor rules as well, such as any monster flagged as a boss using monstats (which is why act bosses fall into this category, but defilers are also flagged as bosses, as is Blood Raven and Izual to name a few).
Also, only superuniques which appear in superuniques.txt receive the +3 bonus (Blood Raven doesn't, so no bonus for her. Same for Izual). If the superunique doesn't appear in monstats but does appear in superuniques.txt then it'll follow the normal convention (base monstats monter for normal, then area level for NM & Hell, +3 each time - example is Pindleskin).
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.