Jay Wilson on PvP [Archive] - Diablo 3 & Diablo 2 Forums

Flux

21-08-2008, 06:08

Quote from the gamespy interview from Leipzig.

GameSpy: There wasn't much content built specifically for PvP in the Diablo games. Fast forward to WoW, and you have lots of PvP-specific content. What approach to PvP are you taking with Diablo III?

Jay Wilson: We'd like there to be a dedicated PvP mode, and we'd like to move away from [how it worked in previous Diablo games] where players just enabled PvP. We don't have any specific plans yet because we haven't really made any active decisions. The only real PvP-oriented decision that we've made and announced is that we do not allow the "hostility mode" that Diablo II had where you can go into town, go hostile, pop back through a town portal, and insta-kill your friend. That just makes people not want to play the game. I know some people say, "Oh, you're taking the teeth out of Diablo." I understand why they feel that way, but making people not want to play together does not make for a better game. That's our feeling.

We definitely want there to be a PvP mode for PvP players, and we would like that mode to be a really serious, skill-based, very strong [aspect of the game]. I feel that on the side of all our games, we really try to make PvP games that cater to a competitive player, first and foremost. We don't try to dumb down or tone down our PvP games. We make [them] good, strong competitive games. StarCraft is one of the best examples. But in terms of what our actual plans are for Diablo III, we don't have anything to specifically announce right now, mostly because we're still messing around with a bunch of different ideas.

maxusmag

21-08-2008, 12:29

that pretty much settles that debate.

Full_Circle

21-08-2008, 18:32

Jay Wilson: ...where you can go into town, go hostile, pop back through a town portal, and insta-kill your friend.

Why doesn't it surprise me that a Blizzard representative doesn't understand how hostility works in D2?

korialstraz

21-08-2008, 23:50

Why doesn't it surprise me that a Blizzard representative doesn't understand how hostility works in D2?

He could be reffering to the hack which enables a player to do exactly what he describes :crazyeyes:

phool

22-08-2008, 00:56

*celebrates*

I'm really starting to like this Wilson bloke, he seems to agree with me a lot... afai'm concerned, non exclusive skill>time pvp has gone from being a pipe dream to a real possibility.

He could be reffering to the hack which enables a player to do exactly what he describes

I don't play anymore, but I'm still quite confident such a hack doesn't exist. Earlier versions of D2 however were FAR more lenient in this regard and it was more widely possible to kill players without warning without hacks.

mephiztophelez

22-08-2008, 08:29

I don't play anymore, but I'm still quite confident such a hack doesn't exist.

it does exist, but it doesn't work in quite the manner described.

it's known as "tppk". it's often used by a Blizzard sork who will cast a blizz atop their party, then tp back to town and go hostile (this stage is often done via a hack/script). the blizzard is still falling, so anyone under it gets nailed for full, pvp adjusted damage.

Jarath

22-08-2008, 17:48

Yeah. TPPK single handedly killed HC. Well, that and town kill. :p

Omikron8

22-08-2008, 20:21

good riddance, PKs and hackers can go wave their epeen in some other game

Baranor

22-08-2008, 22:57

please dont toss the legitpk and the hacking scum on one and the same heap... that's really uninformed. legit pk's aint much of a problem anyway, they're easily avoided.

Q33

22-08-2008, 23:17

This game just keeps on looking better and better.

Garisdacar

24-08-2008, 00:37

and there was much rejoicing.

deadbeater

24-08-2008, 03:59

No hostility? Yes! Yes!! (Does the dance of joy).

iraiam

24-08-2008, 17:52

please dont toss the legitpk and the hacking scum on one and the same heap... that's really uninformed. legit pk's aint much of a problem anyway, they're easily avoided.

Yes I easily avoid them by playing in private games with trusted players 85% of the time. about the only thing I do in public games is leveling runs. all because of pkers legit or otherwise.

phool

25-08-2008, 17:30

it does exist, but it doesn't work in quite the manner described.

it's known as "tppk". it's often used by a Blizzard sork who will cast a blizz atop their party, then tp back to town and go hostile (this stage is often done via a hack/script). the blizzard is still falling, so anyone under it gets nailed for full, pvp adjusted damage.

I know about tppk of course. Ice blast is perhaps the favourite skill in classic ime.

If pvp is a character creation, not game creation, toggle, I'll be very interested to see what Blizz do to minimise equipment homogenisation. 'Limited deck'?

Neferim

26-08-2008, 20:20

:alright: They had hinted at it before, but it's nice to hear a representative come out and say that open-hostility is gone in no uncertain terms.It will be nice to play some multiplayer in D3.

Yes I easily avoid them by playing in private games with trusted players 85% of the time. about the only thing I do in public games is leveling runs. all because of pkers legit or otherwise.

To the best of my knowledge, this is not seen as a problem by the PK crowd for some reason.

::high-fives all fellow PvMers::

GuttWound

09-09-2008, 12:30

I'd like to hear what they are going to do about people with offensive names, and other anti-social behavior. In Diablo 2 there was a very easy very effective way to deal with these types of players; PK them. My personal opinion, I feel less helpless against a legit pk'er (I can get a few people together and kill/camp them) than I do against a player using racist remarks, and drop stealing etc.. Open hostility was a powerful tool against griefers. Some of my most memorable moments playing diablo 2 were following griefers from game to game killing them off with my friends. Anyone ever PKK in HC? That in and of itself made diablo 2 a much more interesting game. Any game I play now with dedicated PvP is basically an open chance for greifers to stalk you out at low lvls and stop you from continuing your gameplay (I.E. WoW;booty bay, AoC;White sands etc..) I've seen a whole bunch of talk recently about TPPK'ing, I've been playing d2 since day one when I walked into best buy and bought a computer and a copy of the game, and TPPK'ing was only an issue a couple of years ago. I recently made an HC necro and got up to lvl 75 before dying of natural causes (server lag from dupes being made). Only twice during my play in public games did I run into pk'ers, and they were easily avoidable. The hostile sound itself adds to the game. If I heard that sound while driving I'd crash my car no doubt. To sum it up, open hostility gave me the responsibility to deal with griefers in the fashion that would hurt them most, instead of sending a letter to a GM who would tell me to that they couldn't do anything. Open hostility also helped me make a lot of friends in all my D2 play time, some of whom I still play D2 and other games with. I can't say that open hostility is everything, but It really stands out against the games of today where racist remarks, spawn camping, drop stealing, and general grief tactics make an avid player feel helpless and less important than the people griefing.

Forsaker

12-09-2008, 17:32

I think Jay refers to Diablo 1, where Instant-PK was possible by just clicking one button.

Or he talks about instant-pk near town, where players can host someone else and attack in 1 sec. TPPK and other hacks are noting you should fight with such a feature, but with a good anti-hack-protection.

I think Jay was no big Diablo-Fan before, but had to play it a few weeks to be able to talk about it. You can´t develope a 3rd part of it without any idea what the fans want to have. He knows exactly : we want a great trade-game ... we want to be the richest guys in the world by playing diablo 3 ;)

Serenity

17-09-2008, 04:53

This game just keeps on looking better and better.

Yep.

The current pvp system in D2 is complete trash. I'm glad there throwing it out the window.

Maybe in D3 skill will be rewarded instead of who can be the bigger *** hole in a dueling game.

Enigma

23-09-2008, 16:52

Quote from the gamespy interview from Leipzig.

Jay Wilson: The only real PvP-oriented decision that we've made and announced is that we do not allow the "hostility mode" that Diablo II had where you can go into town, go hostile, pop back through a town portal, and insta-kill your friend.

Seems like Jay Wilson never played this game.

Go into town? sure

Go hostile? sure

Pop back through a town portal? No, I'm sorry, you're hostiled and taking a town portal is impossible. oops.

insta-kill your friend? With the help of hacks yes, which is something blizzard could have fixed in Diablo 2 a long time ago. They did fix hydras after all, so why not all curses? Really boggles my mind that they use this argument to put the hostility in the garbage. Makes the game a little like every other game in my mind.

Pig Vomit

14-11-2008, 19:36

Seems like Jay Wilson never played this game.

Go into town? sure

Go hostile? sure

Pop back through a town portal? No, I'm sorry, you're hostiled and taking a town portal is impossible. oops.

insta-kill your friend? With the help of hacks yes, which is something blizzard could have fixed in Diablo 2 a long time ago. They did fix hydras after all, so why not all curses? Really boggles my mind that they use this argument to put the hostility in the garbage. Makes the game a little like every other game in my mind.

Muahahahhaha. I am filled with joy knowing you worthless "griefers" will not prosper in D3 :jig: . You idiots turned b.net into forced single player mode. The Devs finally listened to the great majority of b.net players, and as a result you Aholes are being left out in the cold!

The griefers are now the grief stricken! You deserve what has happened & I hope you cry foul and vow to never buy D3. Good riddance!

Btw, Jay Wilson is obviously talking about tppk. Anyone with half a brain can read his words & know what he was trying to say. Hmmm...actually..that kinda explains why you griefers are whining about hostility being removed from the game.

If you read his words more carefully he's not talking about removing the hostility button out right. He described hostility in conjuction with using town portal. Does it make sense now?

You heard it here first. Hostility will now be consentual. I don't think they'll create pvp zones or arenas. You just won't be able to cause any more grief.

Muahahahahahahaha :jig: :whistling:

stillman

15-11-2008, 07:44

^ Very funny thread Pig Vomit, lol.

I don't really care what JW is talking about, or if he even knows what he's talking about. We get the gist; they're making it less easy to grief in d3.

Who cares if he slipped up in his words or if he doesn't play broken old d2. He's too busy doing important stuff.

teh_Thrasher

16-11-2008, 09:21

lol. yeah a lil jumble of wording there by JW, but correcting him doesnt make u a pro pker...

i dont mind player vs player. it adds a nice level of challenge and fun to the game. what broke d2 pvp was hacks. hacks and item duping. a fresh start in d3 would have been fine without having to remove the entire system altogether. hopefully their replacement pvp system is very nice.

GoBigRed

17-11-2008, 16:17

personally, I didn't mind the legit pks if you remember the old arcane runs, the only problem with that system was obviously TPPK, drop hack, absurdly high levels preying on low levels and the inability to remove them, and I do think the ability to cast a spell, go to town, hostile and kill everyone was a problem. If they could hunt me down tho, good for them

crakajap

25-11-2008, 09:00

I think its safe to say that there were a plethora of exploits that could be made use of in the PvP realm of diablo 2. As many of you longtime players know, the PK builds keep getting more insane after every passing ladder reset. And after item duping, well that just ruined the item market.

diablo 3 will also present new exploits players will eventually make use of as any other game with competitive online play will have. However, its obvious that blizzard is going to take painstaking measures to ensure fair play across the board.

But that will only make just that much more enjoyable to find those lovely exploits we all enjoy making ppl cry with so much!

Draxas

15-12-2008, 13:46

I can think of a couple of obvious and easy to do ways to implement workable "random" PvP encounters between players without the Hostile system (which I agree was a flawed system).

You could enable players to create online games tagged as "PvP", where complete open PvP is enabled. You could have a grouping system so that you could do coop or team combats in these games without colateral damage (or for super extra fun, just do team fights without a group and watch the carnage unfold).

Or my personal favorite option, have a "PvP" tag as an option on a character when you create them, for those that like to live on the edge at all times. Have players drop the full contents of their backpack (no equipped items) and coin that is not banked, with the exception of maybe your recall/identify scrolls/tomes (convenience reasons, it's not like they are profitable to loot anyway) and charms (if they have those in this game). So this would set you back the loot you've collected thus far in your venture out from town, enough of a loss to be a real penalty and make you care about the fight but not enough to be incredibly frustrating when you get PK'd.

Or both? Or add some guild vs. guild options into the mix as well? You know real team-based competitive PvP that is meaningful in some way. There's lots of cool stuff they could do with PvP, here's to hoping that they implement some interesting things, good PvP always helps the replayability and longevity of a game IMO.

Laycast

19-01-2009, 03:24

Why doesn't it surprise me that a Blizzard representative doesn't understand how hostility works in D2?

Lmao..Yea I was scratching my head too.

I haven't played Diablo 2 in quite some time but I'm pretty sure once you hostiled you couldn't enter your portals anymore or they dissipated or something. Correct me if I'm wrong.

crazybs

01-06-2009, 05:27

Yea, I was killed a few times by something similar to what Jay described. Definately rough in a hardcore game.

I saw a Sorc I believe, had a hack set up where they fire off fireball or something like that and then instantly tp, go to town and hostile you, then when the fireball hits, you're dead. I think there was something out there for an amazon to do something similar, but I can't remember.

I'm all about having to confirm from both players to duel or pvp.
Hopefully we get some interesting "deathmatch" style gameplay or some interesting team based fights. :D

windforce

01-06-2009, 06:57

For all of you rejoicing over the removal of unconsensual hostility... you really don't know what you're getting into here... PK is an integral part of hardcore play. TPPK hacks ruined hc yes... but legit pk was amazing back in the day before hacks came into the picture. Legit pk really made hardcore interesting. The only thing unfair about it was tppk (both the hack, and the legit method), which can easily be removed without getting rid of hostility all together. It seems like these new folks at Blizzard just don't understand what made d2 so fun in its hayday. I've seen the WoW pvp and while it is more controled, it lacks the animosity and fire that was present in d2.

jhtvman

01-06-2009, 16:38

For all of you rejoicing over the removal of unconsensual hostility... you really don't know what you're getting into here
I know exactly what I'm getting: The ability to play pub games without ever having to worry about some asshole coming along and hunting me when I'm trying to mf or gain some exp on runs.

PK can go to hell. Good riddance.

FreshMeat

01-06-2009, 17:41

You COULD have made the game with a password.

You COULD just exit the game. KNow how he/she finds you? you leave a teleport open in town or make a game name with the exact place you are. There is no reason ever to be killed in Hell by a pk'r unless you are on a baal run.

It is a grim game.

zzzzzzzz

Enigmers

01-06-2009, 19:01

I think it would be great if you could make PvP-specific games, maybe they could even add something like a risk/rewards system, i.e. if you duel with someone, each of you can put in something like a whole bunch of gold or some other reward that you agree on, it goes into a central "rewards box" or something, then after you duel, the winner can open the box. Of course, for people that would rather play a less structured duel (the rewards system would need some definitive end, like best out of five or something) then you could have a "free duel" in which you can set up parties with people and duel each-other any way you want to, like in D2. Except you don't have to worry about pk-ers in a regular game, because, going back to the beginning, PvP-specific games.

windforce

04-06-2009, 07:02

I know exactly what I'm getting: The ability to play pub games without ever having to worry about some asshole coming along and hunting me when I'm trying to mf or gain some exp on runs.

PK can go to hell. Good riddance.

Now that's not a fair argument, because pking has always been a big part of the game, and just because you don't like it is not a reason to get rid of it. Nobody likes seeing their character die... I would sometimes loath the one who killed my character... but without that aspect of the game, hardcore is just not hardcore.

JonoLith

04-06-2009, 09:08

Now that's not a fair argument, because pking has always been a big part of the game, and just because you don't like it is not a reason to get rid of it. Nobody likes seeing their character die... I would sometimes loath the one who killed my character... but without that aspect of the game, hardcore is just not hardcore.

This always boils down to the same thing, over and over. Sometimes all you want to do is kill boars.

I remember when I was playing WoW (GASP I KNOW RIGHT!) I would just be feeling burned out, or just wanted to relax and grind on something easy for awhile. I didn't really want to engage in something that was crazy or intense. All I wanted to do was walk over to a field full of boars, and kill them. Inevitably and invariably I would get ganked by twelve rogues and camped.

Of course, the counter argument there would be "Don't play on a PvP server!" But... sometimes I DO want to be out in the world and engage in pvp combat and fight player enemies and engage in that style of play. But, y'know... sometimes I just wanna kill boar.

I have no problem with Blizzard giving me the option to kill boar when I want to, or kill player when I want to without one overlapping onto the other.

You might call that "Soft" or "Carebear," I just call that good sense.

Sass

04-06-2009, 17:45

Stile

04-06-2009, 18:19

I think it's easy to keep both aspect alive and well.

Just have 2 hostility buttons.

Hostility button 1: Consentual Fight
-This requires an accept from the other player before hostility is allowed. There is no penalty for using this method

Hostility button 2: Surprise Hunt
-This does not require an accept from the other player, if succesful hostility will be allowed without consent.
-However, this has a bit of an evil-sneakiness about it, so there's a random chance that the Surprise Hunt will not be successful. If it's not successful, Tyreal is alerted and instantly kills your own character for your mischievious actions.

If there's any valid way to compare characters (stats/equipment/level...), the random chance can even be made more or less likely according to how evenly matched the characters are.

This allows problem-free, consentual PvP to occur whenever anyone wants to test their skills.

This also keeps the "hardcore" flavour of hardcore. In fact, it even makes it a little bit more hardcore.

Boqu

05-06-2009, 02:07

I personally think the consensual PvP should be the way to go, so they can duel anywhere any time as long as they both agree. arena dueling is good idea but gets boring very very fast. PvP in actual game is something totally different.

what I wish for is the balance of the game so PvP won't end within 1 or two hit. that is also what made the TPPK viable I think, they can 1 hit you. if they have to 10 hit you, it would never be a problem.

hubb

07-06-2009, 23:37

LucianDK

08-06-2009, 18:13

Glad to see it go too, doesnt belong here.

konnu

12-06-2009, 09:36

I hope it won't be WOW battlegrounds clone.

Arena type would be nice for competitive play

lochemel

12-06-2009, 19:03

This is great i hope they go that way. One thing i felt inlove when i was a kid about diablo was the story.. and to play the game and enjoy the storyline.. and that's important too.
But blizzard has some esports experience with mainly starcraft and warcraft and abit of wow .. so i just hope they try to make it with diablo3 too.
Anyway the party question doesn't bother me that much since if they create a possibility for you to choose like "party game" or "duel game" when creating a game the problem is solved.
And if you don't want one or another.. just create with a password and play it alone.
Would be great to be able to create a page on the internet with a tournament name open some signups create a pvp game and just play it.. maybe with a prize on items and on large scale prizemoney.
Fortunately something tells me they are thinking on take a step forward regarding pvp and that's just awsome.
Time to get diablo on wcg :D

Ankeli

15-06-2009, 13:09

windforce

15-06-2009, 19:31

This always boils down to the same thing, over and over. Sometimes all you want to do is kill boars.

I remember when I was playing WoW (GASP I KNOW RIGHT!) I would just be feeling burned out, or just wanted to relax and grind on something easy for awhile. I didn't really want to engage in something that was crazy or intense. All I wanted to do was walk over to a field full of boars, and kill them. Inevitably and invariably I would get ganked by twelve rogues and camped.

Of course, the counter argument there would be "Don't play on a PvP server!" But... sometimes I DO want to be out in the world and engage in pvp combat and fight player enemies and engage in that style of play. But, y'know... sometimes I just wanna kill boar.

I have no problem with Blizzard giving me the option to kill boar when I want to, or kill player when I want to without one overlapping onto the other.

You might call that "Soft" or "Carebear," I just call that good sense.

If you just want to play a relaxed game after a long day of work, you can play softcore, where PK has no relevance. Or play hardcore in private games or with friends. You are basically asking the whole tone of the game to change so that you can be relaxed... doesn't make much sense to me.

There's no reason why the game should be compromised to suit everyone's playing styles. We all play the same game so we should all play under the same rules. If you don't like hardcore (which naturally includes PK) then don't play it. What else can I say.

Bleh, gone is the fun of hunting down 7 others in sewers. A simple TPPK fix would've been enough, if someone can't / won't tp to town when they hear the hostile sound, too bad, they had like uh... 2 minutes to do so.

That is without hacks ofc.

The same our hardcore will not be :<

Yup. The D2 HC of old is a legendary game that will not be continued in D3. I guess we just have to deal with it, because Jay Wilson and co. are pretty dumb.

lazylink

15-06-2009, 21:59

Bleh, gone is the fun of hunting down 7 others in sewers. A simple TPPK fix would've been enough, if someone can't / won't tp to town when they hear the hostile sound, too bad, they had like uh... 2 minutes to do so.

That is without hacks ofc.

The same our hardcore will not be :<

Logging into a game full of level 16s with a level 80 isn't "hardcore" its an annoyance. D3 will favor players who don't want to be a nuisance, sorry I guess you'll have to grow up.