building 1st hc barb since 1.09...skills? weaps?

[magicianDK]

Hey everyone,

I hate to keep milking the "haven't played since 1.09, just started on Friday" line , but I'm going to use it for this case. I would like to start and hopefully have a pretty long lasting barb to have on my HC account for MF, combat, questing, PvM and occasional PK, etc.

My builds from 1.09 (if I cant remember) were whirlwind, mastery (most of the time sword), BO, and shout/frenzy.

I most of the time tended to end up using a sword, just because they're more common and a lot of the time had fast attack speeds.

Here are my four questions:

1. What weapon mastry should I use? I've got it down to mace and/or sword. in sticking with pretty much untwinked, I don't have super elite of either so I don't have an "end game weapon," what is the general recommendation between the two?

2. Skill type, is WW still a viable skill after 1.09/1.09b all the way to 1.12? Is still the heard killling, cow grouping, great for MF'ing against meph skill I can use?

3. Based on skill, if WW is not the skill and frenzy is, what weapon combos and skills should I focus on?

4. I may have a shield in the inventory screen to use, but 2h for dmg when a shield is not needed, again how does this affect skills?

[aj2000]

For frenzy, I recommend stormlashs, cheaper then many of the high end runewords but amazingly powerful, static + CB + speed in one package = win.

[Baranor]

Untwinked? Maces. There is a simple reason for this: You can go Str/Vit, and since your maximal STR for a weapon is 232 or somesuch.

WW is good... you'll be looking for a Windhammer, as it will hit the last WW BP with a single IAS jewel and has 50% Crushing Blow which is pretty neccesary for Hell PvM. A check every 4 frames is a good thing.

Mace Mastery: Max it. There aint a Critical hit bug anymore, so you'll have to get more damage. Its really good to do this.

BO: Max

After that its up to you. Zerk for PI's is not a bad idea. Stick 1 pt into Iron SKin, a few pts into Natural Resistances, and that's that. You can also go for Max Shout and 1 pt Zerk, as Shouts a synergy for Zerk, but the downside is that your Zerk will last very long... again, taste is a good indicator.

Occasional Pk: No. Bad idea. Unless you want to die. Synergies have made specific PvP builds a lot more powerfull. Its PvM or PvP, and there aint really a multi-combo.

oh, and the PDR cap is now 50%. But barbies can use Battlecry on monsters for an addiotinal 25% PDR ;)

[magicianDK]

Untwinked? Maces. There is a simple reason for this: You can go Str/Vit, and since your maximal STR for a weapon is 232 or somesuch.

WW is good... you'll be looking for a Windhammer, as it will hit the last WW BP with a single IAS jewel and has 50% Crushing Blow which is pretty neccesary for Hell PvM. A check every 4 frames is a good thing.

Mace Mastery: Max it. There aint a Critical hit bug anymore, so you'll have to get more damage. Its really good to do this.

BO: Max

After that its up to you. Zerk for PI's is not a bad idea. Stick 1 pt into Iron SKin, a few pts into Natural Resistances, and that's that. You can also go for Max Shout and 1 pt Zerk, as Shouts a synergy for Zerk, but the downside is that your Zerk will last very long... again, taste is a good indicator.

Occasional Pk: No. Bad idea. Unless you want to die. Synergies have made specific PvP builds a lot more powerfull. Its PvM or PvP, and there aint really a multi-combo.

oh, and the PDR cap is now 50%. But barbies can use Battlecry on monsters for an addiotinal 25% PDR ;)

Excellent, how fitting your name is Baranor, I'll be using two of those when I can on this bad boy. So maces over swords then huh? Definitely going to do it then. Any tips on how to distribute attribute points throughout lower levels up to 40s and 50s? What stats should I be looking for optimally?

I'll be looking for WW, mace, bo, maybe zerk a bit. Hopefully I find a shaefers (are those still any good?) and a stormshield for him. Btw, what's PDR? Before I google it?

[MoUsE_WiZ]

1. What weapon mastry should I use? I've got it down to mace and/or sword. in sticking with pretty much untwinked, I don't have super elite of either so I don't have an "end game weapon," what is the general recommendation between the two?

"Pretty much untwinked" and "never going to trade with anyone" are two different things, I'll assume you just mean you're starting from scratch, but once you get things to trade, you're fine with doing so.

In that case, maces are definitely the cheaper option. IK maul is cheap and effective as an end-game weapon. Infact, the entire set is. The armour is a bit costlier, but you can still potentially get it for gems if you look in the right places. The typical pvm barb weapon is Oath, it is most frequently made in swords, but it can also be made in maces (note maces/hammers/scepters are different weapons for RW purposes), so you're not really losing out on anything in terms of long range planning either.

2. Skill type, is WW still a viable skill after 1.09/1.09b all the way to 1.12? Is still the heard killling, cow grouping, great for MF'ing against meph skill I can use?
WW is still a viable skill.
However here's where 1.10 changes things up entirely...
1) Cows are pretty much a thing of the past for exp. Some people MF them once in a while, but not often. Now people do baal runs for exp. WW is not particularily viable for killing in baal runs as Oblivion Knights with IM can now spawn in the throne, and I'm sure you're aware IM and WW don't mix. However even zerk in the throne is dangerous if you do it enough... there is potential for being mana burnt and 1 shotting yourself with a regular attack. Combined with the fact that javazons/trappers/hammerdins/sorcies kill the minion packs super quick in most cases, you'll usually end up going along on baals just to cast BO/shout on the sorc before she teleports. Not only will you not be helping speed up the kills much if any, you'll be putting yourself at risk of dying to an FE+mods explosion before it's humanly possible to read the mods and get out of the way. If you're feeling ambitious, warcry and howl can be useful clearing the throne before the minions start. That's not for *every* baal run, but it is for the ones that are running quickly and smoothly.

2) Barbs don't meph any more. Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, decided it would be a good idea to make the durance level 2 giant. To make it harder to MF. Of course all this means is that class variety on meph runs is completely out the window, oh, and people with maphack get an even bigger advantge. Worst change of 1.10 basically is what I'm saying. Sorc or it's entirely not worth your time. Not to say it's impossible to meph with a barb, just that there's better things that could be done with your time. But yeah, WW can still be used to MF, just not there. Trav, eldritch/shenk/pindle, pits (yes, in A1) if you happen to feel like it, and if you get the right gear (different post for that once you actually have gear to choose from ^^) you can run nihlathak as well.

Though personally I prefer conc to ww (and others prefer zerk), as in most of those runs I'd rather just kill the one that drops the loot than the ones standing beside him, but WW is equally viable.

3. Based on skill, if WW is not the skill and frenzy is, what weapon combos and skills should I focus on?
Frenzy is also just as viable as ww/conc/zerk, so play whichever you want.
Again I'd go maces. With WW it's kind of a toss up for me as the range on swords is nice, but frenzy there's no question. Make yourself a pair of Blacks early (probably get the all the runes for 2 of them for 10 pgems, and that'd be overpaying imo) on and you'll be set until you get something or other that's niftier. And there's plenty of things out there to shoot for, basically you're looking for fast weapons with decent damage and crushing blow. You'd be mfing the same places as WW, just a matter of which skill you prefer.

4. I may have a shield in the inventory screen to use, but 2h for dmg when a shield is not needed, again how does this affect skills?
If you go WW with 2h mace you probably don't want a shield as you probably don't want the dex to block, and you won't want to find an extra 1h weapon. This is the other arguement in favour of swords other than range, you just need 1 good 2her and you can use a shield or 2h as you see fit.

Frenzy will leave you with terrible 1h damage when using a shield, so again, I wouldn't even bother.

However, here's a nice change from 1.09>1.10; defense actually matters! Even in PvP!
In other words, with maxed shout (max shout, btw), if you're running around in some solid armour, monster chance to hit won't be all that high. The to hit formula is based in large part on level, so when relying on armour try not to get too far ahead of yourself, but it does work quite well.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Excellent, how fitting your name is Baranor, I'll be using two of those when I can on this bad boy. So maces over swords then huh? Definitely going to do it then. Any tips on how to distribute attribute points throughout lower levels up to 40s and 50s? What stats should I be looking for optimally?

I'll be looking for WW, mace, bo, maybe zerk a bit. Hopefully I find a shaefers (are those still any good?) and a stormshield for him. Btw, what's PDR? Before I google it?

Easy one first... PDR = physical damage reduction, generally it's used to denote "physical damage reduced by 22" or whatever integer as opposed to DR% which would be shaft, ss, etc.
Edit: I see in the context he was using it as DR% though... yeah, the cap is 50% now in both pvp and pvm, instead of 95% in pvm and 75% in pvp. In other words, SS+either verdungos or string caps you out, using SS+shaft together is pretty much a waste (technically it helps cancel out amplify damage, but you give up far too much for it).

Skills should be more like
20 mace
20 ww
20 shout
20 bo
1 zerk
1 leap attack
1 battle command
1 find item
1 each in the non-weapon masteries obviously

Pump shout up to 24, pump bo up to 30, do ww, then do mastery is what I'd do. Throwing 1 in the 1 pointers as they appear. Why shout before mastery? It gives your BO a reasonable duration to start with without having to put all your points into up to to 44. Also doing mastery last lets you change your mind should you find a really nice axe or sword. It does make the 1-30 that much longer though, so it's just a preference thing.

As for stats... I'd probably go all in vit for the first 10 or so levels so as to avoid getting owned by andy early, then start worrying about strength and just kind of add to it as I need it, IK gloves/belt add 45 str iirc, the maul costs 232, so you're looking at 190ish strength at the most if your goal is full ik (which is a common choice).

Next:
Chance to cast does not work with WW, so schaeffers is not a weapon you want here.
Blacks are a good cheap one for WW early on too.
As mentioned a few times, IK maul is solid and very cheap once you get going.
Oath in a scourge with a stormshield is a reasonable ending set up, but before getting the Oath+SS I think 2H is better than 1H, and you can't really do 2H then switch to 1H with maces as you won't have the dex for block without having your vit suffer terribly. On the other hand, I think the choices for good pre-oath swords are kind of lacking compared to maces.

[Baranor]

Its BaranAr s star, not baranOrs star.

;)

[magicianDK]

Its BaranAr s star, not baranOrs star.
Phonetically it's not that much different, but yes I'll look into a mauler/macer then as from what I'm seeing (and reading about rune words, it seems like a very good option)
;)

using SS+shaft together is pretty much a waste (technically it helps cancel out amplify damage, but you give up far too much for it).


Good to know, that's actually better and explains why I can acquire a shaftstop relatively easily now then in 1.09. Well then I may as well use the shaftstop in combination with the dr belt.

Skills should be more like
20 mace
20 ww
20 shout
20 bo
1 zerk
1 leap attack
1 battle command
1 find item
1 each in the non-weapon masteries obviously

Pump shout up to 24, pump bo up to 30, do ww, then do mastery is what I'd do. Throwing 1 in the 1 pointers as they appear. Why shout before mastery? It gives your BO a reasonable duration to start with without having to put all your points into up to to 44. Also doing mastery last lets you change your mind should you find a really nice axe or sword. It does make the 1-30 that much longer though, so it's just a preference thing.

Exactly the kind of information I was looking for, while it does reveal a sort of cookie cutter strategy, it really makes it easier for me, thanks.


WW is still a viable skill.
However here's where 1.10 changes things up entirely...
1) Cows are pretty much a thing of the past for exp. Some people MF them once in a while, but not often. Now people do baal runs for exp. WW is not particularily viable for killing in baal runs as Oblivion Knights with IM can now spawn in the throne, and I'm sure you're aware IM and WW don't mix. However even zerk in the throne is dangerous if you do it enough... there is potential for being mana burnt and 1 shotting yourself with a regular attack. Combined with the fact that javazons/trappers/hammerdins/sorcies kill the minion packs super quick in most cases, you'll usually end up going along on baals just to cast BO/shout on the sorc before she teleports. Not only will you not be helping speed up the kills much if any, you'll be putting yourself at risk of dying to an FE+mods explosion before it's humanly possible to read the mods and get out of the way. If you're feeling ambitious, warcry and howl can be useful clearing the throne before the minions start. That's not for *every* baal run, but it is for the ones that are running quickly and smoothly.

2) Barbs don't meph any more. Blizzard, in their infinite wisdom, decided it would be a good idea to make the durance level 2 giant. To make it harder to MF. Of course all this means is that class variety on meph runs is completely out the window, oh, and people with maphack get an even bigger advantge. Worst change of 1.10 basically is what I'm saying. Sorc or it's entirely not worth your time. Not to say it's impossible to meph with a barb, just that there's better things that could be done with your time. But yeah, WW can still be used to MF, just not there. Trav, eldritch/shenk/pindle, pits (yes, in A1) if you happen to feel like it, and if you get the right gear (different post for that once you actually have gear to choose from ^^) you can run nihlathak as well.


If you go WW with 2h mace you probably don't want a shield as you probably don't want the dex to block, and you won't want to find an extra 1h weapon. This is the other arguement in favour of swords other than range, you just need 1 good 2her and you can use a shield or 2h as you see fit.

However, here's a nice change from 1.09>1.10; defense actually matters! Even in PvP!
In other words, with maxed shout (max shout, btw), if you're running around in some solid armour, monster chance to hit won't be all that high. The to hit formula is based in large part on level, so when relying on armour try not to get too far ahead of yourself, but it does work quite well.

Wow, first off all great write-up. Secondly, I'll be sure to be pumping shout early on instead of a point basket late in the game.