ebotdz/griefz vs griefz/beastz

[evild2player]

I just want to hear some opinions on the two dual wielding options, for a bvc barb. Atm, I have ebotdz/griefz. I've been considering getting a beastz, but I don't think I'll get one unless the benefit is significant.

ebotdz/griefz:
ebotd gives some nice stats, high damage (although not as much as a grief)
griefz hits hard, autocasts venom, has deadly strike


griefz/beastz:
griefz hits hard, and even harder with the fanat aura
ar is boosted by fanat, but this is moot vs casters
beastz has ow and some other nice mods, but low damage compared to the others

I've found my current combination of ebotdz/griefz to be sufficient for most duels, but what I really want to know is if griefz/beastz's combined damage is significantly higher or whatnot. Every guide I read suggests griefz/beastz.
Also maybe ebotdz/beastz is an option? :scratchchin: Any comments or insight is appreciated.

[Jerion]

i have personally tested grief/ebotd vs grief/beast on an unshielding bo'd hdin after a full pass (ww right through)

botd setups comes out to like ~3.1k damage

beast does like 3.5-3.6k under the same conditions

for grief/beast vs botd/beast: grief is better as it has a much moar consistent damage (you'll get ~4k dmg before dr always, while botd is like 1-5k)


so yeah, get a beastz, the fanat is very good. try to go for as high str as possible as ed really doesn't matter.

[jaxz]

You can try it out yourself if you want, it can be simply tested.

For best short ww damage, griefz/beastz is by far the best. For longer wws, griefz/griefz is the best. For bvc duels, griefz/beastz the best though the ww duels were more to long whirlings.


SO basically:
Griefz/beastz > griefz/griefz > ebotdz/beastz > griefz/ebotdz > ebotdz/ebotdz > beastz/beastz..

[evild2player]

Ah I see, but why is griefz/beastz good for short, while dual griefz good for long? Does it have something to do with the weapons taking turns to hit, and the griefz in short whirls end up hitting more?

And once I have enough, I'll be getting a beastz. Thanks for the replies.

[mainaman]

Ah I see, but why is griefz/beastz good for short, while dual griefz good for long? Does it have something to do with the weapons taking turns to hit, and the griefz in short whirls end up hitting more?

And once I have enough, I'll be getting a beastz. Thanks for the replies.grief /frief does more dmg only if you use fortitude, if you use enigma grief/beast does more dmg

[jaxz]

Ah I see, but why is griefz/beastz good for short, while dual griefz good for long? Does it have something to do with the weapons taking turns to hit, and the griefz in short whirls end up hitting more?

And once I have enough, I'll be getting a beastz. Thanks for the replies.

I remembered xxxkillerxxx once said that due to the frames that d2 ww is being programmed, it only check for hits once every 4th frames, so dual wield ww isnt really a double attack (means a single attack every 2 frames) but more of a together attack every 4th frame. And to further program ww, they make only the first weapon is calculated in the hit-check at the first 4th and 8th frames. Diablo 2 works at 25 frames per second, so means at the first 32th milli-second, only the primary weapon is calculated in the hit-check. A Good DoD takes about 8 to 12 frames per whirl direction, means only the main weapon is taken into consideration, the off-hand weapon is not included in the calculation. Beastz in this case adds more damage to the main hand by fanatism aura in doing DoDs. And griefz+ fana has been proven to deal more damage than wielding a 2 hand weapon. Be it ebotd gpa or ebotd tm.

For longer wws, for people who lag like me playing From Singapore to US west, DoD is not the correct tactic. For people with 300 ping, we play with a technique called "whilwind double cuts" instead. Means simply whirl left then right back and forth once. Having Knockback helps. Ofc, so far, there is no suitable setup that allows a Singaporean bvc to play like that. The best we can achieve is only obtain kb mods from gloves only, we need other important mods on other equips. "Ww dbl-cuts" results in longer whirls compared to DoDs, and I can take down for example bone armour faster than using DoDs. But for caucasian players, it is best to stick to DoDs maybe... not sure since no Americans come to Singapore play Diablo from my country before. By far, No Singaporean players can ever experience or execute what we saw in mcm videos before. Just not possible to do it from our location.



If your a caucasian, just use griefz/beastz.

[evild2player]

Ah, your post was very insightful jaxz. It provided me with more understanding of WW mechanics and what I should aim for. I had a feeling that griefz/beastz did the most because of the emphasis on the main hand weapon + fanaticism. Although, the bvc guide I read never mentioned as to why aforementioned weapon combination is the best.
I take it DoD is tri whirl?

PS. I live in North America but I'm not caucasian ;)
PPS. I rolled a 269/34 beast yesterday. I tested it a bit against ebotdz/griefz, and it did infact do more damage. Especially short term.

[jaxz]

Ah, your post was very insightful jaxz. It provided me with more understanding of WW mechanics and what I should aim for. I had a feeling that griefz/beastz did the most because of the emphasis on the main hand weapon + fanaticism. Although, the bvc guide I read never mentioned as to why aforementioned weapon combination is the best.
I take it DoD is tri whirl?

PS. I live in North America but I'm not caucasian ;)
PPS. I rolled a 269/34 beast yesterday. I tested it a bit against ebotdz/griefz, and it did infact do more damage. Especially short term.

The calculations provided by xxxkillerxxx that in terms of raw damage, dual griefz gradually gives more damage when ww'ing above 10 frames. But even after 24 frames, it isn't really much of a handicap when griefz/beastz is compared to it, besides, you don't really do long wws versus casters unless maybe it is part of your strategy incorporate in your style when fighting against hdins. When performing bvc duels, though wws can be much longer, but the ar that beastz provides seems to gives my friends' bvc an upperhand, just a feel that it can out perform my dual griefz. Whichever case, not so crucial. Most important is to have fun with your char.

Yes you are right! Tri-ww, DoD, different terms people called it, but same meaning.

Ah North America. Good One. I heard rumours that the servers are located in Los Angeles, should be near enough.

And congrats on your new beastz!

[evild2player]

Ah if the servers are located in Los Angeles, then I'd be pretty far away :( I live in Ontario. I used to have around ~47 ping, but since I moved and switched to a different ISP, I've had ~72 :(

[jaxz]

I think bvc is still playable below 100 ping. Ofc having below 40 is the best from what i heard. But still 72 is better than a player with a fluctuating ping of 300-800.

All the best!