Opinions on Summoner in Hell

[Midnightdirge]

So... I am fully ready to admit I am a newbie. I didn't read a guide when I built my druid, and I ended up with:

Maxxed Grizzly
Maxxed Wolverine
Nearly Maxxed Dire Wolves (19, but 23 with +skills)
Point in Werebear, Point in Maul, Point in Shockwave, Few Points in that elemental shield

I am level 66 and use a Fire-based rogue merc

Problem is, on Hell, I am in a position I dont see escape:

My bear doesn't kill the right things in a mass battlefield (shaman, blood raven, etc...) so I get stuck on those fights and only constantly resummoning him will get him to kill the shaman. I am not capable, even with Maul, of doing more than minor damage to regular monsters. I have yet to figure out a solution for Blood Raven. I recognize that my gear sucks, and that I have some growth to go, but I dont see a route that makes my bear a better killer, or more selective.

So, do I start investing in Windy (I have a lvl 4 tornado with +skills right now, but obviously nothing else), maul, or do summoning druids just struggle in Hell regardless?

[Midnightdirge]

After reading a bit more it seems that I should be using the Dire Wolves instead of the bear. I will give that a try, but still welcome all additional opinions.

[williamchan]

I think most summoners go for Might Merc from act2 since it buffs ur pets. IMO 66 is a bit low for Hell, and the best way for summoners to go for gearwise is mostly +skill gear.

[Sansfear]

Save the bear for difficult bosses, otherwise use the wolves. That gives multiple targets for monsters to attack which spread out the damage you are taking.

The pets, while they do decent damage, should be supplementing your own damage, not proving all of it. Get yourself a highspeed, highdamage weapon and maul will dish out some serious damage.

I agree that 66 is a bit low for hell and going back to NM and levelling to 70ish would help you tremendously.

You might read the Town Dump Bear guide as that is basically what you've ended up with.

If you are having trouble hitting things, raising Maul will give you an extra 10% AR per level. Getting the Blessed Aim merc from Act2 will help with your AR as well.

You may also want to raise Lycantropy to give yourself more life/duration for your werebear.

[Jary]

Not enough skills to go pure summoner, not enough points in maul to be hybrid. Main thing is you're not ready for hell so keep doing nightmare meph runs and improve your gear.

[Midnightdirge]

Wow, thanks guys.

I can level pretty fast in hell, as long as I stick to the first two areas (I have no problems at all with most mobs), but I can see what you mean about +skills (and needing better gear).

Meph runs are not a problem, but there's not much xp in it. I guess I just want to be sure I understand your recommendation, are you suggesting meph runs for gear only, or to level too?

[Midnightdirge]

I think most summoners go for Might Merc from act2 since it buffs ur pets. IMO 66 is a bit low for Hell, and the best way for summoners to go for gearwise is mostly +skill gear.

The only reason I have a non-might merc is for pi's in hell. Since I wont be in hell (for a bit, anyway) this seems a very good recommendation. Thank you.

[lumpor]

You have to be more careful before allocating skill points. Don't start putting points in your elemental tree as soon as you encounter a problem. They're unrepacable. You should treasure them more

[Midnightdirge]

You have to be more careful before allocating skill points. Don't start putting points in your elemental tree as soon as you encounter a problem. They're unrepacable. You should treasure them more

Well, I was rather careful. I actually thought that when I finished maxxing the summons I would continue maxxing that elemental shield. That's really the only place (other than pre-reqs) that I have put them (That tornado spell is from an item and other +skills I have).

Are you saying that shield is not a great spell?

[Verashiden]

Midnight: Cyclone Armor's not really a good point sink since unsynergized it won't stop more than a Gloam lightning at best. I'd suggest putting points into Maul that way you can pick out the targets that need to go down (shamans) since summons do have a hard time prioritizing targets. It also gets you into the thick of things which is much for fun than watching your summons do all the work, right? ;)

[Midnightdirge]

It also gets you into the thick of things which is much for fun than watching your summons do all the work, right? ;)

Truth be told, I rather enjoy a more 'herding' type of role. I use shockwave and moving to group and mass stun the enemies. *chuckle* I think it's the Napoleon in me.

Well, that sucks about the armor, but at least I only put a few in there. Should I bother to max the entire summoning tree (more succinctly: should I max Ghost Wolves?) I guess I had rather written-off defense/attack as being critical for my menagerie.

[Verashiden]

If you have nothing else to sink the points into sure. I'd still recommend putting those points into Maul for an "Ah crap need to kill the reviver" situation.

OR you can put those points into Ravens and use them to blind the revivers >.>

[Garisdacar]

i played a pure druid summoner last ladder, i used an act 1 cold arrow merc the whole term, i had maxed spirit wolves, dire wolves, bear, and heart of the wolverine, 1 point in elemental shield, and was sinking the rest in carrion vine. i was using a bow though, as a hunter-type build, so i was able to stand back and pick off the shamans and important targets and what not (plus i was able to save up enough to trade for the runes for Faith so that really helped my summons). but yeah, i would def recommend using dire wolves in the first few levels of hell as you often need that crowd control, and they don't start getting chumped until around act 3.

the only real problem i had was of course physical immunes. i used to carry a spellsteal on switch to cast decrep on them. if you're using an act 2 merc, i would just use the reaper's toll unique thresher, it has 33% chance to cast decrep, that would really help you out i think.

[Yuri The Barbarian]

Keep running Baal in Nightmare.

I have pretty much the same build as you, except less points in dire wolf. I've got 15 (13 + 5 from Jalal's, necklace, and dark clan crusher)

But anyways: strategies:

Shockwave is your friend. With plus skills I've got it 7 second stun with it. I hunt down the shamans with a vengeance myself and stun them

Might merc is your friend, but at your level, he'll die a lot in Hell.

I'm not too big on the Dire Wolf > Grizzly thing, I prefer to deploy my grizzly, he kills things rather quickly.

Recast your bear near enemies you want it to attack. If you up your damage and your mana leach you won't have to worry about mana too much, and if you're doing decent damage you can always use hunger, it gets you mana back pretty quick.


I started the build out as a "hunter build" because I had Kuko Shakoko on an alt though.

Behind a might merc and a grizzly, consider yourself the utility man. If you get your merc a nice polearm, with HOW and Might he and your Grizzly should be doing a lot of damage. Right now with my werebear summoner, I deal about 1k damage per hit before armor. I don't have a very good weapon, but I use it more for the +2 skills than for something else. My merc however has bonehew socketed ShaelHel and he and my grizzly both do about the same damage of 4k with Might and Heart of Wolverine.

My job is positioning the grizzly, stunlocking everyone, providing additional damage from time to time, dealing with physical immunes (casting my bear right in front of them, pulling back and breaking out kuko and rapidly firing), and throwing healing pots to my merc.

[lumpor]

Geeze verashiden, I know everyone makes mistakes. I have too. I just wanted him to not make any more mistakes, since he obviously wants to know how to reach more effectiveness overall. If he wants to allocate points werever he wants to, and experiment, and climb himself forward, that's fine for me, but that's obviously not what he wanted

Just wanted to warn him to not make the same mistake again, since he clearly doesn't want to make such mistakes

Midnight: You could go fire hybrid, which involves maxing fissure, volcano and rest into firestorm. Helps you kill PIs, and some people don't like passive damage. Another suggestion is to max poison creeper. Its poison doesn't do much damage, but halts monster regeneration. This is only if you have spare skill points though. Otherwise you could use the carrion wind ring for the charges

[Verashiden]

Lumpor: It's still in the way you said it. I don't mind you correcting someone someone for incorrect skill point allocation. I do mind you treating him like a kid about it (read your post again if you don't get what I'm saying).

[Hypnosx]

Get off your high horse. Everyone makes mistakes at some point or another. I've misplaced skill points more than once. Talking to Midnight like a kid makes you sound like a condescending prick. Pull some holier than thou bull**** somewhere else.


your avatar is appropriate

[Verashiden]

>.> I'm a rabid wolf, what do you expect?

[Jary]

uh oh, rashi's upsettin' the squares @.@

(ic u pwned Lumpor, but did you have to steal his gold too? ya jerk ^_^)

[Midnightdirge]

Hey all you guys,

You were really helpful and I thought I'd let you know that I am doing much better now. Nearly level 80 with lvl 32 summons I am doing pretty well in Hell, save those damned PI's. I'm trying to find an amplify damage charged wand, but the comments here seem to suggest that Decrepify will work too?

Anyway, I really appreciated all of you (even Lumpor, for whom I assumed brevity was a quality and took no offense at his terse comment) taking the time to help me out. I think I mis-spent some points, sure, but by and large I feel I have an effective build... at least up to Act II Hell, where I need a better solution for PI's than lvl 32 enchant on my merc.

But now I'm just repeating myself.

[Verashiden]

Amp doesn't spawn on wands. Your best bet is to find a bow with it and simply shoot until amp triggers.

Or get a Reaper's Toll on your Merc which can cast decrep.

[Midnightdirge]

Yep, this is what I did, nearly finished with Act II now... it made all the difference. Was able to trade a Homonculous I got for the Reapers and things are moving along quite smoothly.

[bigman2013]

If you go the ranged route then a WitchWild String has a chance to cast Amp Damage.

I have a strafer amazon using WWS and my merc with Reapers Toll. Between them every monster on screen is cursed with one or the other.

It is very helpful in Hell. Plus using a bow keeps you further from danger.

[Jary]

mm... I wouldn't go that route. Its not an effective option.

If you were gonna go that route, Lacerator throwing axe is the way to go imo. The damage and 33% ctc Amp Damage is far superior to wws, and the fact that you can pump points into dext and STILL use Stormshield. Plus Lac is versatile, throw a few points into Fury and it actually makes a gg Fury weapon. Get Ethereal if you can, it repairs @.@

[williamchan]

mm... I wouldn't go that route. Its not an effective option.

If you were gonna go that route, Lacerator throwing axe is the way to go imo. The damage and 33% ctc Amp Damage is far superior to wws, and the fact that you can pump points into dext and STILL use Stormshield. Plus Lac is versatile, throw a few points into Fury and it actually makes a gg Fury weapon. Get Ethereal if you can, it repairs @.@

He would have to burn a bit of str to use SS though, not sure of his build.

[Verashiden]

Sanctuary Troll's Nest. Done :D.

[Midnightdirge]

He would have to burn a bit of str to use SS though, not sure of his build.

I have appx 100 str (100 raw, I think 120 or so with gear)

All my points went into Vit after I hit that number.

[Midnightdirge]

Sanctuary Troll's Nest. Done :D.

So, remembering that not only am I new, I am also a touch thick in the noggin, what does this mean?

[Verashiden]

Sanctuary is a Runeword using Ko Ko Mal. From AS:

Sanctuary
3 Socket Shields
Ko + Ko + Mal
+20% Faster Hit Recovery
+20% Faster Block Rate
20% Increased Chance of Blocking
+130-160% Enhanced Defense (varies)
+250 Defense vs. Missile
+20 To Dexterity
All Resistances +50-70 (varies)
Magic Damage Reduced By 7
Level 12 Slow Missiles (60 Charges)

And I suggested putting it into a Troll's Nest Shield since it only need 106 str to wear :D

[williamchan]

I have appx 100 str (100 raw, I think 120 or so with gear)

All my points went into Vit after I hit that number.


Stormshield
Monarch

Defense: (136-504) - (151-519) (varies)(Base Defense: 133-148)
Required Level: 73
Required Strength: 156
Chance to Block: Pal: 77%, Ama/Asn/Bar: 72%, Dru/Nec/Sor: 67%
Paladin Smite Damage: 12 To 34
+ (3.75 Per Character Level) 3-371 Defense (Based On Character Level)
+25% Increased Chance Of Blocking
35% Faster Block Rate
Damage Reduced By 35%
Cold Resist +60%
Lightning Resist +25%
+30 To Strength
Attacker Takes Lightning Damage of 10
Indestructible

[Jary]

what's your point?

[PFSS]

So... I am fully ready to admit I am a newbie. I didn't read a guide when I built my druid, and I ended up with:

Maxxed Grizzly
Maxxed Wolverine
Nearly Maxxed Dire Wolves (19, but 23 with +skills)
Point in Werebear, Point in Maul, Point in Shockwave, Few Points in that elemental shield

I am level 66 and use a Fire-based rogue merc

Are you on Battle net or Single player? If you're on battlenet then IMO you should remake as it won't take too long at all for you to remake up to your current level, particulary no you've done a a run through with this one.

Personally I would recommend:

Maxed Dire Wolves.
Maxed Grizzly.
Maxed Poison Creeper.
Your choice of Heart of Wolverine or Oak Sage. Maxed
One point wonders to Lycanthropy and Shockwave
Rest into Spirit Wolves

Might merc with Reapers Toll.

some people prefer Spirit Wolves over Dire Wolves.

The Vine - this is possibly the most underrated skill in the game. Against single monsters it kinda blows, serving as a fancy Prevent Monster Heal and punching bag. But against groups it is buggy and does much much much more than it's listed damage. You can solo hell cows with just a vine, they literally die in seconds as they walk over the patches. There is a fuller guide somewhere on this summon, that details how amazing it is, but I can't find it right now.

It is also very goof for bottleneck areas like Arcane, where you get a huge crowd on the narrow passageways. Simply cast Vine underneath them and watch as they pretty much die instantly.

I prefer to play with a wearbear, and go about stunning monsters while the wolves tear them to shreads though there are other options. I find it to be a very effective build.

Only put 1 point into Raven, but make sure to keep them all out as blinded enemies are nice to fight against.

I suspect you could also make a decent PvM Summoner with Rabies, given you will have maxed it's only synergy. Though have not tried this myself.

Gear wise +skills are your friend. Personally for cheap(ish) gear I would recommend:

Weapon: Spirit Sword.
Shield: Spirit Monarch Shield (The 156 strength is worth it IMO, you don't lose out on *that* much life, particularly when you factor in the +22 Vit you get from it.
Armor: Skin of the Viper Magi
Belt: Loads of good ones, I always likes String of Ears.
Rings: One Ravenfrost, other is not so important until you're rich.
Amulet: Magic +3 Summon or Rare +2Druid skills amulet. Try for useful mods.
Helm: Druid pelt with +3summon or Rare with +2 Druid skills. Try to get them with staff mods to Dire Wolves, Bear and Vine. Failing that try get a Shako.
Gloves: Loads of good choices.
Boots: Loads of good choices.

Add in a druid torch and some Summon skillers (which are cheap as chips) and you'll walk hell. Even with the more basic options for the Helm/Amulet you'll have around +20 to your summon tree. Your wolves will have a base damage of ~1400 (to be multiplied by your might merc,, heart of the wolverine and improved by decrep) and your bear will be doing a little over 4000 damage before merc/HoWl and decrep.

[Omikron8]

20 spirit wolves
20 dire wolves
20 grizzly
20 heart of wolverine
1 pointers in whatever you want (eg. carrion vine)

and an act2 might merc with reaper's toll (decrepify for more physical damage)

[lumpor]

Why spirit wolves? Ar and defense? i think you're better off with maxed creeper and one-point carrion

[Verashiden]

I agree with Lumpor?!

The world is ending! :D :D :D

[Jary]

The Vine - this is possibly the most underrated skill in the game. Against single monsters it kinda blows, serving as a fancy Prevent Monster Heal and punching bag. But against groups it is buggy and does much much much more than it's listed damage. You can solo hell cows with just a vine, they literally die in seconds as they walk over the patches. There is a fuller guide somewhere on this summon, that details how amazing it is, but I can't find it right now.
i think you're better off with maxed creeper and one-point carrion

You guys don't understand, it just doesn't work on bnet;). I've proven in past that hellfire flame from a pb will literally kill PI's faster than a creeper, it disconnects games almost instantly, as well as fact that it dies constantly.. but anyways, use at your own risk @.@
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1lm7l5DdLk

[PFSS]

You guys don't understand, it just doesn't work on bnet;). I've proven in past that hellfire flame from a pb will literally kill PI's faster than a creeper, it disconnects games almost instantly, as well as fact that it dies constantly.. but anyways, use at your own risk @.@


Hmmm.... Have they nerfed the vine since 1.10? I never used to have any problems with disconnecting. Also - isn't it a bit like Fissure where the enemies have to be moving to take the serious damage?

[williamchan]

what's your point?

I quoted a post from Midnight, about having to invest way to much in str to be able to use SS for his summoner build that wouldnt need it much.

[Jary]

Hmmm.... Have they nerfed the vine since 1.10? I never used to have any problems with disconnecting. Also - isn't it a bit like Fissure where the enemies have to be moving to take the serious damage?
No.. and yes. Its the same steady 150+ damage/4 seconds or w/e, but as you said it not only prevents monster heal but can be reapplied over and over, which is no surprise why it works so effective in tite packs, because monsters tend to do the "vibrate" thing when they're stuck in a pack. So in a way, its not so much that its glitched, its just that its preventing their healing while reaplying x20+ times lol.
Again though, my point really had nothing to do with the damage. I mean, if it was just about whether to have it or not.... well, of course you'd WANT it, it deffinitely has its uses.. and its sorta cute :P Somewhere in the middle of 1.10, hacking started to get big. I'm not gonna go into the details but the technique had to do with lagging up games till it would drop while the player was still in it, so blizzard countered this by sorta auto-dropping games in 1.11a once the ping reached a certain level, which is bad news for poison creeper, rabies, etc.. basically stuff that continually generates lag... lvl 30-40 creeper, that's a lot of mats = mega ping/ On single player of course you wont have a problem at all, this is just online