D2 Challenge #1 : Defensive Builds

[HegemonKhan]

setting the stage:

alright everyone by now is pretty familiar (and bored) with diablo 2 as it is normally played with the common cookie-cutters and killing your way through the game with usual ease with your offensive cookie-cutter builds.....

so i bring to u a concept that fills the single player forum: CHALLENGES

and the first one i bring is.....
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D2 Challenge #1 : Defensive Builds

mission statement:

the purpose of this challenge is to make a character (any of the 5 types) as UN-killable as u can while STANDING ANYWHERE in D2 world surrounded by whatever monsters.

ultimate victory conditions for D2 challenge #1, Defensive Builds :

1. ultimate victory is when u can *STAND ANYWHERE* in HC surrounded by whatever monsters and not die in an 8 player game with NO party (no party members' skills helping u) help.

2. obviously, a person with a char with a lower clvl and less (or no) quests completed that give bonuses is better (wins over) than a person with a char that has a higher clvl and more quests completed that give bonuses.

Hardcore:

play on HC, IF u want to prove to all those who don't believe in your build's defensive strength.

but HC isn't a requirement, it's merely a way to validify your skills in making a defensive build.

rules:

1. no rules, except....

2. PVM !!! (since pvp is probably impossible to do)

3. to have the defensive mindset of how do i make this character as UN-killable as is possible, compared to the boring normal mindset and play of offensive builds and killing power.

4. the challenge is: standing surrounded by monsters and not dying!!! avoiding or preventing attacks with movement or skills is NOT the challenge, so is an automatic disqualification for victory.

5. rushing help IS required! since you're focusing on def, u wont be able to kill and will need help to progress through game getting the quests that give bonuses and for exp-clvls.
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let the challenge begin!

ps,

this is only for those veterans who are bored with normal playing of d2 and need some kinda challenge to make the game interesting. if u think this is dumb or not interested than just ignore it.
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some of the already discussed build types:

1. "avenger" paladin (with resist auras maxed, holy shield, defiance)
2. iron barb (concentration, shout, iron skin, bo, nat res)

some of the already mentioned build types:

1. "jail keeper" necro (bone armor, bone prison, bone wall)
2. "?" sorc (cold armors+ES TK)

other ideas:

1. "dodge" zon
2. ?
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some help for the challenge:

1. obviously u max the defensive skills
2. probably every build will want 170 str for highest def gear and rest into vit (except maybe nrg for an ES-TK sorc) for highest life possible.
3. highest resists and def rating and life as u can.
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feel free to post whatever ideas, actual build guides, or whatever u want. we could also keep a record on this thread too if people want. a list of who's participating and whatever like stuff.

[TraderScope]

Interesting idea! I would like to see the one that survives anywhere in hell without dying though :P

[HegemonKhan]

it is possible!

in pvp, defense doesn't help too much because of angelics

but for pvm, if/when u actually raise your defense to high levels, the monsters actually do have a hard time hitting u. they actually miss. no angelic's AR for them!

and we all know u can get high resists and it works in pvm (duh)

the problem is trying to do both or balance the two.
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ps,

i think this is a really fun challenge. its the opposite of a person's usual mindset.

usually this is your mindset in d2, how do i maximize my damage output by gear, stats, skills. (offensive damage builds) (skills like ww, bliz, orb, spear, summons, fury, blessed hammers, etc)

for this challenge u need the mindset of: how do i maximize my "defense strength" by gear, stats, skills. (defensive, high def rating and resists and life, builds) (skills like iron skin, nat res, defiance, holy shield, "dodge" skills, "cold armors" skills, concentrate, "resist auras" skills, "bone armor", etc)

[TraderScope]

I think that the passive Zon could very well be the best build for pure tanking purpsoes :)

[fledgeling]

Hammerdin in hotspurrs in CS is such a char. Especially an ornate-hammerdin - of course after shout.

A barb with 95% fire res can stand for around 30 seconds near seal with venom lords, but he might die if the pack of de-seis is spawned around him (hammerdin will spin the hammers and stun them).

The only "character" that seems to be impossible to kill by monsters is the valkirie, at level 26 she dies only to iron maiden - she can be surrounded by 20 monsters and will survive

[TraderScope]

Hammerdin in hotspurrs in CS is such a char. Especially an ornate-hammerdin - of course after shout.

A barb with 95% fire res can stand for around 30 seconds near seal with venom lords, but he might die if the pack of de-seis is spawned around him (hammerdin will spin the hammers and stun them).

The only "character" that seems to be impossible to kill by monsters is the valkirie, at level 26 she dies only to iron maiden - she can be surrounded by 20 monsters and will survive

I think that the purpose of this challenge is to make a char that only stands there doing nothing, getting beaten and obviously not taking any help from other chars :)

[Akse]

I'd like to try energy shield sorc.. but this test in classic is not as nice as it could be in LOD. Cause in Lod with all the +skills you can get 40 level shield with 95% absorb :) Add about 20-30 damage and magic damage reduce to that and all the damage you take goes to mana :) With full energy you have over 3000 mana that regens very quick. When you get to this point you don't need any resists or damage reduce by % cuz energy shield takes all damage and resists comes in to play after that, only problem is poison that can lower you to 1hp, I read some stuff that you can well play even with only 1 hp tho :) wouldn't do that in HC tho.

I just wonder how it would work in classic. If you go full energy your life will be around 300-400 max(maybe 500 with goldy items). If you still get 10-20% of damage to life it might be a big deal with that Hp pool. Also in classic you get like 1500 mana cause the gear won't allow so much as in lod. So It would probably be quite a lot more fragile as the lod one that I have read can tank almost anything that doesn't have mana burn.

[HegemonKhan]

I'd like to try energy shield sorc.. but this test in classic is not as nice as it could be in LOD. Cause in Lod with all the +skills you can get 40 level shield with 95% absorb :) Add about 20-30 damage and magic damage reduce to that and all the damage you take goes to mana :) With full energy you have over 3000 mana that regens very quick. When you get to this point you don't need any resists or damage reduce by % cuz energy shield takes all damage and resists comes in to play after that, only problem is poison that can lower you to 1hp, I read some stuff that you can well play even with only 1 hp tho :) wouldn't do that in HC tho.

I just wonder how it would work in classic. If you go full energy your life will be around 300-400 max(maybe 500 with goldy items). If you still get 10-20% of damage to life it might be a big deal with that Hp pool. Also in classic you get like 1500 mana cause the gear won't allow so much as in lod. So It would probably be quite a lot more fragile as the lod one that I have read can tank almost anything that doesn't have mana burn.
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so what is the point of LOD again....?....when any character can be a god.....

this is why i never got or played LOD.......
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the old vets here could take their classic characters and crush LOD with their "meager" classic gear and all the LOD players' lower jaws were resting on the ground. too spoiled with LOD items and godhood characters with runes and + skill items able to use other character skills etc...
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ps

u ARE right about ES-TK sorc. they got a lot of issues. like...mana burn....

u might need to max vit-life instead of nrg-mana with it. or some perfect (maximized) balance of the two.

[UnderAge]

At what point do you consider your character a hi-def character?

[HegemonKhan]

well the ultimate would be when ANY and EVERY monster from norm act 1- hell act4 only has a 5% chance of hitting u. not sure if this is possibly though of course.

unless your def is ~ AT LEAST 10,000, u might as well have ZERO def with the way the mechanics and formulas work. its all out def (high def) or bust (no def).

good defense would probably be 20,000 to 30,000. but i'm jsut saying this off top of my head. some one who knows the actual numbers would be much more helpful, as i'm jsut vaguely guessing.

the 20,000 and 30,000 seem a bit high now that i'm looking at it. maybe u can NOT reach these numbers. some one else will need to help us out here on the actual def rating that is reachible.

[UnderAge]

Hmm that can't be right, my din with out holy shield is only around 150-200 def and with the holy shield its low 1000-1100's (plus bo). The maximum it could be with right gear (on classic with no holy shield or bo) would be around 1400-1500 defence

[HegemonKhan]

u are aware that a single piece of gear, the ornate (rare or magical=100% enchanced def), can get alone ~ 900-1,000 def. with only shout (barb skill) (100-200% enchanced defense, forgot what it reaches at slvl 20) that would be about 2,000 or 3,000 def which already exceeds what u thought was max def at 1,400-1,500

granted, high def builds need godly magical or rare near 100% enchanced def highest exceptionals (grim helm, grim shield, ornate, forgot item type names of gloves and boots and belt that give most def rat, the rare weapons with def rat).

and than once u got tthe gear along with defensive skills, should u find a def shrine.....huge defense. though in early patches u could get multiple def (or offensive) shrines and they stacked but this was removed with later patches as that caused unimaginible levels of damage, AR, and defense.
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ways to raise def rating or other means of defense or lowering monster AR:

1. 170 str for any/all high def rating gear (170 is most u need for the ornate chest armor)

2. dex increases def rating. (just like str increases melee weapon damage)

3. high def rating gear (co-insides with #1)

4. defensive skills (shout=def rating, iron skin=defense rating, the 3 cold armors=defense rating, defiance=defense rating, holy shield=defense rating, bone armor, energy shield, concentrate (barb skill)=defense rating, etc...)

5. some weapons give def rating. which might require some dex for its req

6. higher character level (makes it harder for monsters to hit u, if they use the same to hit formula as u do against them.

7. def shrine

8. use a shield (duh) (co-insides with #1 and #3)

9. etc.. ?

[UnderAge]

Yeah I'm aware of all that, when I say bo I generally mean everything the boer does in a cs because thats usually all I do. With maximum defence gear you can reach 1,766 in classic and what ever dex adds too defence. Coming out too be about what I said before.

[squiggle]

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so what is the point of LOD again....?....when any character can be a god.....

this is why i never got or played LOD.......
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the old vets here could take their classic characters and crush LOD with their "meager" classic gear and all the LOD players' lower jaws were resting on the ground. too spoiled with LOD items and godhood characters with runes and + skill items able to use other character skills etc...
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ps

u ARE right about ES-TK sorc. they got a lot of issues. like...mana burn....

u might need to max vit-life instead of nrg-mana with it. or some perfect (maximized) balance of the two.


So...you're criticising something you have never played...and obviously know **** all about.


Zz, if you say so m8. I'll happily find someone who will beat any "vet" you find using classic gear + classic gear.



:crazyeyes:

[WarlockCC]

Share your thoughts, ideas and oppinions about things, items and inanimate objects, but keep oppinions about people to yourself.
There will always be people ready to say something bad about something you like, this doesn't mean those people are bad, but that their views are different then yours.

This is a forum, things are written to be discussed and improve collective knowledge.

So one could simply state one disagrees, preferably with some thoughts as to why you disagree.
Like "In Classic there are no elite items and the ED of exceptionals only goes to 200, while in LoD you can get 300ed with the fools mod".
Or see that it was meant in jest, laugh about it because you know better and move on.

[HegemonKhan]

that was just my opinion of LOD, and yes i have NEVER played LOD, but in reading about rune words, items that give skills from other characters, the extra quests, the better experience, the extra resists, the enchanced items, and etc i am able to make the opinion that to me LOD doesn't seem to have much point.

i was IN NO WAY commenting about the or any person. i was only saying my OWN disdain for LOD, which is my and only my opinion.

*TO ME, LOD basically takes the challenge and fun out of d2 by letting any one with any character become a god with all the extra stuff LOD provides.

not sure who u are adressing your post to warlock, but just in case its me, i want to imediately let people know that my post was my OWN opinion ON LOD. i thought my post shows that as i am NOT adressing a person in it. my post is evidence of that.

ps,

i would like to try the druid and assassin, though. but otherwise have no interest in LOD.

pss,

and if u don't mind LOD and like it, than by all means enjoy it. i was just saying how *I* never could and never will. classic player forever:D

[squiggle]

Well then...your opinion is wrong and just plain stupid.

It's ok dude...settle down.

[fledgeling]

I wish the druid hack worked again; I could build such a char on classic[/sarcasm]