View Full Version : Take your Online Petition and stuff it.
That's basically the word from blizzard today, about the art direction of d3. I'm posting this here since I know some of you guys aren't in the habit of checking the main page, and it's new news (http://diablo.incgamers.com/n/679714/d3-team-on-art-direction). See the full article for a lot more, it's an informative read. No light radius!
Don’t like “Diablo III“’s colorful art direction? Too bad. We were told today that it’s not going anywhere.
Lead “Diablo III” designer Jay Wilson told me that even though 52,000 “Diablo” fans have signed a petition asking Blizzard to return to the darker, more gothic look of the old “Diablo” games, the new, vibrant art style is here to stay.
This is how he put it:
“There’s no going back now,” he said during an interview in a Manhattan hotel where Blizzard was showcasing their newest games. “We’re very happy with how the art style is. The art team’s happy. The company’s happy. We really like this art style, and we’re not changing it.”
Quite a provocative thread title ^^
People who dislike the allegdly new 'art direction' will find comfort in these words, voicing what several posters have hypothesised at dii.net.
The preliminary art we've seen so far, Wilson said, is from early on in the game. "We want to generate the feeling of everything getting worse... it's part of our narrative. It makes the more gloomy part of the game a place where the stakes get higher."
"If you start out at the apocalypse, and then move to more apocalypse, it's not going to have much of an impression on players."
Personally I'm content with the palette, and almost all of what we've seen (everything except the rather caricatured male barb armour tbh). Some of the modified screens people have made are even better but whatever, not a big deal for me. Still hoping for more emphasis on point over ambient lighting which isn't really addressed.
My only complaint about D3 looks is the green filter in the dungeon; I just hope other dungeons have different colored ways of lighting them up.
Outside of that, I am happy for Blizzard.
To me it was never about the color, but rather how 'clean' things seem. Like the lion statue on the staircase, for example. But, fortunately I expect things like that to be addressed in the final product, as it's obvious they haven't begun to polish the game yet.
Love title.
Love thread.
Love Jay Wilson.
Love admin for posting this.
Love Diablo3.
i should probably clarify that nothing Jay Wilson says could be construed as so directly dismissive. it's more the tone the Mtv and Kotaku interview write ups took, as they stressed what they knew would be the adversarial, attention-getting aspects of the pieces.
That's basically the word from blizzard today, about the art direction of d3. I'm posting this here since I know some of you guys aren't in the habit of checking the main page, and it's new news (http://diablo.incgamers.com/n/679714/d3-team-on-art-direction). See the full article for a lot more, it's an informative read. No light radius!
can stuff, double stuff, triple stuff it in their sss...
:smug:
They said in the interview that the two earlier art directions actually had the more dark/gray/brown look and it didn't fit the game as good as this new direction. If the majority of Blizzard thinks this is the case and the best for the game, I'd could be so bold to say that it's a fact that it looks better with color. I've been for the color all along, since it brings more diversity to the game. I also believe the replayability of a more colorfull game is better. Always seeing gray areas kind of wears on you.
well, they've given us to nice games before, so i guess this will be just as good.. i dont really care about the colour, and if bliz' thinks they're good, they have to be
Who has the time to bother with the colors, the gameplay is what makes or breaks it (most likely makes it). And also, we ain't kids anymore so we shouldn't be as scared/creeped out as we were while playing the first diablo.. And since it's strictly forbidden to scare the children of today, color is the way to go :P
Who has the time to bother with the colors, the gameplay is what makes or breaks it (most likely makes it).
This sums up why the art/colors became such a big issue. Since we don't have gameplay, or know that much about the game. What we do have is a lot of pictures, so that's what people talked about/obsessed over to such an extent.
Funkopotamus
01-08-2008, 13:46
well, they've given us to nice games before, so i guess this will be just as good..
Ouch, that hurts my spirit.
This sums up why the art/colors became such a big issue. Since we don't have gameplay, or know that much about the game. What we do have is a lot of pictures, so that's what people talked about/obsessed over to such an extent.
Yeah I realize that, I just can't understand why people would obsess so much over something as arbitrary as the color schemes. I really thought most of us became addicted to d2 due to the gameplay and not the colors, I might've been wrong :)
Sein Schatten
01-08-2008, 14:42
Does this mean we won't get ASCII graphics for D3? That's a real bummer.
Seriously, this doesn't surprise me in the least. :)
ciphernemo
01-08-2008, 16:28
From viewing these "Before and After" pictures people have altered, I can certainly see that having less of that blue/green haze in the dungeons looks better (ie: more like previous Diablo games). Also, I really like having that proposed look in wilderness regions.
However, it's NOT a big deal! We can change color settings for our video cards to adjust monitor colors, brightness, contrast, gamma, and 'vibrance' through video card driver settings. For example, with NVIDIA GPUs, the NVIDIA control panel lets you save and load multiple color profiles. All you need to do is switch between them.
I've tested it just now, and my NVIDIA settings were applied to both a DirectX and an OpenGL game.
So why put all of this pressure on Blizzard to change it at their end when it's only a little inconvenience for us to switch it ourselves before and after we play D3?
Funkopotamus
01-08-2008, 16:46
From viewing these "Before and After" pictures people have altered, I can certainly see that having less of that blue/green haze in the dungeons looks better (ie: more like previous Diablo games). Also, I really like having that proposed look in wilderness regions.
However, it's NOT a big deal! We can change color settings for our video cards to adjust monitor colors, brightness, contrast, gamma, and 'vibrance' through video card driver settings. For example, with NVIDIA GPUs, the NVIDIA control panel lets you save and load multiple color profiles. All you need to do is switch between them.
I've tested it just now, and my NVIDIA settings were applied to both a DirectX and an OpenGL game.
So why put all of this pressure on Blizzard to change it at their end when it's only a little inconvenience for us to switch it ourselves before and after we play D3?
What about people without nVidia cards?
ciphernemo
01-08-2008, 17:49
I don't know for sure, since I haven't bought ATI cards since ATI was good about 5 years ago, but doesn't ATI have its own color, brightness, contrast, gamma correction as well? I would assume so.
Therefore, any gamer can use it. And for those running Intel GPUs, well, they probably shouldn't be playing D3 on those systems (even though Intel drivers' probably have the same options).
They said in the interview that the two earlier art directions actually had the more dark/gray/brown look and it didn't fit the game as good as this new direction. If the majority of Blizzard thinks this is the case and the best for the game, I'd could be so bold to say that it's a fact that it looks better with color. I've been for the color all along, since it brings more diversity to the game. I also believe the replayability of a more colorfull game is better. Always seeing gray areas kind of wears on you.
I agree completely with you saying that more richer colors will have a lasting impact on long term playability. While the altered pictures we have seen did not look bad per se, years after one has to ask would we continue to enjoy seeing a 256 shades of gray Gothic color palette?
I am glad they said this in the interview for I hope this is another discussion that can just die now.
we ain't kids anymore so we shouldn't be as scared/creeped out as we were while playing the first diablo..
The idea color relates to horror level, it's quite interesting actually... I always thought it had more to do with jarring sound effects and suprise. I don't quite understand the shock associated with dull drab tones, that we are all so familiar with. People are so worried about the "level of horror," yet they're in complete denial: how boring and uneventful both Diablo's have been. If only there was a pink dungeon to prove my point... the bewilderment, it would be the shock of a lifetime, pure fright, I could imagine these people pissing in their pants - they'd bolt so quickly, now that would be the ultimate easter egg. A Pink Dungeon, complete with Rainbow and at the bottom, The Super Udder of all Milkings!
i think a lot of the complaints come from the still photos. The colored lighting and the mist/fog/atmospheric effects seem thicker and more obvious in screenshots. I didn't notice them watching the wwi gameplay the first couple of times, but cropping images out of that and the screenshots for wiki pages, I have to adjust the levels in almost all of them, since they look fuzzy and green/blue tinted in a way the moving movie does not.
The colors and fog and such are much more noticeable in still images, since the eye doesn't have action to follow, and moving mist that you don't notice in action looks hazy when its frozen in a screenshot.
I do personally think the game would benefit from a bit less blue/green haze, and more red/dark colors and tints, but it's far from a show stopper.
Yes sbn, that's exactly what I meant. I believe more color = more replayability.
Why don't they simply add a slider in the options for lower or higher contrast, saturation, etc.
Why don't they simply add a slider in the options for lower or higher contrast, saturation, etc.
I'm pretty sure that D2 had a slider for contrast and "gamma", I think. If not, there are settings you can change on your monitor.
poltergeist
02-08-2008, 00:52
Thank god.
You have to respect a company for sticking to their guns. It means they know what they are doing.
If they simply bowed to 52,000 piddly online signatures they would obviously be a lot less sure of what they want to do with the game.
I want to play Blizzard's game. Not a truckload of forum nerds' game.
There's a difference between a grittier gray/brown dark game and a dark game using bright colors.
D3 is a game with bright colors; with "dark" thrown out the window. I am deeply disappointed in Blizzard's Art team for not seeing this.
“‘Diablo I’ and ‘Diablo II’ are darker, and I think that the one of the main reasons why is the fact that in ‘Diablo I,’ you’re basically in a dungeon the whole time. And in contrast to ‘Diablo III,’ you’ll be exploring outdoors, you’ll be in dungeons, you’ll be experiencing so many different areas." That says so much about the art department working on D3 (quoted from Keith Lee).
And no, brightness controls only makes everything dim. For example: a fireball wouldn't be as bright as it should.
Regardless, it's going to be a kickass game. And I'm going to buy the game in a heartbeat when it comes out... but damn...
stillman
02-08-2008, 04:10
The sad thing is, Blizzard could have spent more interview time slipping us really good details on ranger attacks, skills, items, new gameplay features, new bnet features, end game ideas, and so on. Istead, they gave us a bunch of responses about colors and art which WE ALREADY CAN SEE FOR OURSELVES ON THE DEMO.
Man, I hope this spells the end of the whole art debate so Blizzard can address some issues and communicate some ideas to us on fun aspects of the game. Imagine for a moment that instead of 4 Blizzard quotes about art, it was 4 Blizzard quotes on HC mode or the caster or archer characters.
Stillman, Blizzard talks about the art direction because there's nothing else they can talk about. Otherwise they would be silent.
Sein Schatten
02-08-2008, 14:46
Man, I hope this spells the end of the whole art debate so Blizzard can address some issues and communicate some ideas to us on fun aspects of the game. Imagine for a moment that instead of 4 Blizzard quotes about art, it was 4 Blizzard quotes on HC mode or the caster or archer characters.
Agreed. I would like to know what caster character is in the game. :)
Stillman, Blizzard talks about the art direction because there's nothing else they can talk about. Otherwise they would be silent.
Agreed. Blizz aren't going to be tossing major revelations like the next new character class out the back door.
Mcwhopper
03-08-2008, 11:34
Flux I never would have thought to see you use such a provocative thread title!
And heads up for this decision, I trust Blizzard more then 52k random Bnet whiners, thank you very much :whistling:
Minervian
04-08-2008, 11:00
When Wilson joined the project two and-a-half years ago, the game was similar-looking to what fans of the old games might expect � darker, desaturated and a lot of brown and gray tones. However, translating the game from 2D to 3D with a dark color palette didn�t make for the best gameplay experience.
The above I think, is the most important bit. First it shows that Blizzard DID try to make the game "dark, desaturated". They decided against it after due diligence.
Secondly, the reason is given. D2 is 2D technology, 8 years old. Why would anyone today make a game based on 8-year-old 2-D graphics? 3-D graphics has come a long way.
It's like television heroes of the past, say Batman or Gundam. Would you expect a new movie/series made today based on Batman's original costume or 1979 animation standards to sell today? No, you got to update it, and change it accordingly to make full use of today's capabilities.
BTW Flux, I always read the news first before coming to the forum. :)
Any comment on the arrogant display on the MTV article? The fan based pics are sooo much better...
"Better" is a matter of perspective. I don't care what these self-proclaimed fans think the game should look like when I'm satisfied with it as it is. Seems to me they're stuck 8 years in the past as far as Visuals are concerned.
"Better" is a matter of perspective. I don't care what these self-proclaimed fans think the game should look like when I'm satisfied with it as it is. Seems to me they're stuck 8 years in the past as far as Visuals are concerned.
And your perspective is more valid than others because it matches Blizzard's?
And your perspective is more valid than others because it matches Blizzard's?
No.
I didn't know from your post that I was supposed to defend why I think the game should stay as it is, when you asked for people's comments.
Here I'll fix your post.
Any comment on the arrogant display on the MTV article? The fan based pics are sooo much better...
Better not oppose my ideas about the game or I'll call you up on it.
Haha very funny how you frame me as offensive after your flamboyant assertion:
...self-proclaimed fans... they're stuck 8 years in the past ...
If you are giving some input, how about you give your opinion without trashing others'?
The blizzard guy is very arrogant on his replys, he might be right on a couple of points, but the fans must have some valid points too, and he just disregarded them all.
Haha very funny how you frame me as offensive after your flamboyant assertion:
If you are giving some input, how about you give your opinion without trashing others'?
The blizzard guy is very arrogant on his replys, he might be right on a couple of points, but the fans must have some valid points too, and he just disregarded them all.
Because changing their game's art design is out of the question. The artists are going to create the game based on what they believe is best for the game. You're the one making assertions that they're being dismissive and arrogant because they don't want to change their game and that I'm framing you as being offensive when that never happened.
And if someone wants a new game to look like a game that was released 8 years ago, then how would you put it?
Change the palette a little is not changing the art direction. Nobody is saying "change the textures" themselves.
mince pies
05-08-2008, 03:11
To me it was never about the color, but rather how 'clean' things seem. Like the lion statue on the staircase, for example. But, fortunately I expect things like that to be addressed in the final product, as it's obvious they haven't begun to polish the game yet.
Sanctuary has been safe from demons for 20 years so maybe this has something to do with the "cleanliness". Also, didn't Blizzard say that it will get progressively worse as the game goes on?
I have my concerns about the influence of WoW coming into D3. Looking at the 3 videos from Diablo, D2 and D3 makes me feel better. I think the D3 trailer looks good for the most part, maybe a bit of stylizing and polish here and there.
I also have been slowly going through Diablo I, and I am amazed at how creepy the soundtrack can be. Insane laughter and a slew of other sounds that hint at demonic activity really add to the mood. Better than Diablo II by far in this regard.
Funkopotamus
05-08-2008, 04:04
Change the palette a little is not changing the art direction. Nobody is saying "change the textures" themselves.
I am. For the stone work at least. It all looks so clean.
I have my concerns about the influence of WoW coming into D3. Looking at the 3 videos from Diablo, D2 and D3 makes me feel better. I think the D3 trailer looks good for the most part, maybe a bit of stylizing and polish here and there.
I also have been slowly going through Diablo I, and I am amazed at how creepy the soundtrack can be. Insane laughter and a slew of other sounds that hint at demonic activity really add to the mood. Better than Diablo II by far in this regard.
I definately agree, it is not the colour that makes Diablo I scary it is the music. I have also been playing Diablo 1 again and the atmosphere and tension is amazing.
mephiztophelez
05-08-2008, 05:57
well said blizz.
PlasmaTorture
05-08-2008, 10:42
I do personally think the game would benefit from a bit less blue/green haze, and more red/dark colors and tints, but it's far from a show stopper.
And that is the exact message of the petition, pretty much, summed up in one line.
We want the game to have slight alterations to certain aspects of the art direction, but we will almost definitley get the game anyways.
The lighting system is... weird.
Textures are too clean, especially stonework, especially in a dungeon that is completley overrun with demons.
Some color palette tweaking is needed.
The petition included those alternate shots with a clear disclaimer of "These are over the top. We want Blizzard to understand our point of view and hopefully come up with a happy medium between these crazily-overdone edited screenshots and what they've presented themselves."
Somehow that message got overlooked by everyone, including Blizzard, which is a damn shame. He writes off the whole thing as groundless. It's clear from his comments, such as spell effects being dulled (I'd like to see you edit a screenshot in photoshop and keep the spell effects exactly the same while editing everything else), that he has no interest in what the petition actually has to say, and is only interested in defending his team's direction. As far as I'm concerned, the Diablo 3 team is just another group of fans of the game and have little more say on what's fittingly Diablo than the fans who made the petition or the people who use the forum or anyone else, because the D3 team is a group of Diablo 2 fans who happen to work for Blizzard.
His comments, in the end, are reassuring for the most part, and there's always hope somebody at Blizzard notes the true message of the petititon (not the "Lol colors!!11" that people think it is) and says "hey, why don't we make the stones look worn and used instead of fresh and brand new off the chopping block?"
To me, it is about the physical design of the models (in-game). The armor pieces, weapons, and characters. From what I've seen, some pieces look like they fit, and other's look like they don't. Same with the art that's been released so far (not in-game). Some of it looks like I'd expect to see it in a Diablo manual, and some looks like it is made for a different game.
I don't like the fact that so many sites have made a huge issue out of the color thing, but totally ignored the physical design of the models. Sure, it has been mentioned, but a lot of things have been mentioned. It is as if though they love beating this color thing over the head...
Too bad for me, since I seem to be in the minority, and I think physical design is a lot less likely to change than colors.
Telefrog
05-08-2008, 22:11
I'm new to this forum, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. Why is this "issue" even being discussed at this point? It seems Blizzard has given their answer to folks suggesting an alternate art direction, which is that they've made their decisions and are sticking to them for the foreseeable future.
You can gripe all you want, but Blizzard has spoken. You are free to not purchase the game.
I'm new to this forum, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. Why is this "issue" even being discussed at this point? It seems Blizzard has given their answer to folks suggesting an alternate art direction, which is that they've made their decisions and are sticking to them for the foreseeable future.
You can gripe all you want, but Blizzard has spoken. You are free to not purchase the game.
and they're also free to continue talking/discussing, and if blizzard is reading then they may reconsider their position.
PlasmaTorture
06-08-2008, 07:08
I'm new to this forum, so you'll have to excuse my ignorance. Why is this "issue" even being discussed at this point? It seems Blizzard has given their answer to folks suggesting an alternate art direction, which is that they've made their decisions and are sticking to them for the foreseeable future.
You can gripe all you want, but Blizzard has spoken. You are free to not purchase the game.
Pretty sure the point of a forum is to discuss things, not just to sit around high-fiving each other about how awesome a game is going to be (although that is also acceptable). :scratchchin:
RibGriller
06-08-2008, 08:31
Do the terms:
"Chill out"
and
"Splitting hairs"
mean anything in this discussion? In the end, gameplay will rule the day!
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