increased speed

[Dubiousz]

made a basic ww barb that going to be used for mf and have points left over after maxing ww/bo/shout/mastery and was wondering if putting points in increased speed worth it for the sole purpose of mfing, or is the diminishing returns really bad.

i think at level 10 it gives 36%, is that going to give a noticable difference on cutting time running around on mf runs, i mean i kill pretty fast so what else do you think i can put points into for mfing?

[fledgeling]

if you have increased speed your character moves faster when doing a WW - thus hits less times e.g. it would be best for you to have the character slowed by a monster with cold damage

at least that's how I understand it

[HegemonKhan]

i don't know how many people would try this, but if any should be interested, if u don't mind stickying another guide for me warlock, i and (if there are any other poeple interested) others would be thankful.
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up to u dubiousz,

but i find having 30% FWR (fast walk run) boots really helpful for mf'ing especially specific monsters who u have to go to. so the barbs increased speed skill would also help since it increase FWR of your barb as well. even if your not running to a specific monster the FWR speed is nice for the simpliest reason of getting a drop before some one else:P since ww usually locks u from picking up a drop until it is done and you ww away from the drops.

as for remaining sk pts i always find NR (nat res) a nice spot to put them.

to fledgling's comment,

thats true, that more FWR means less ww hits, but with my understanding, does it really matter, when u just ww again anyways?

in other words: when u are ww'ing back and forth does it matter how many times each ww is hitting them when its just one long series of ww's anyways?
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if u want speed a good way to maximize it will still being able to mf by killing AND popping :

my own personal mf'er barb:

stats:

all into str ! (it does die A LOT, especially if u try to use him before he is ready at high clvls and having the right gear)

skills:

max ww, am (AXE mastery), NR (nat res), FI (find item), at least 1 sk pt into increased speed. at least 1 sk pt into frenzy. rest into frenzy (i'm pretty sure frenzy gives more FWR speed than increased speed). if any points left over after frenzy maxed, than those final points go into increased speed. of course, watch for if increased speed at any point gives better FWR than into frenzy. maximize your FWR speed.

GEAR: (list of all needed gear)

1. MF gear:

1A. max MF gear:

*(more defense and resists on any of the items, the non-unique ones, is desired, of course)

tanc armor, tanc amulet, perfect mf chance guard gloves, perfect mf gold wrap belt, perfect mf rare godly boots (25% mf, 30% FWR, resists, def, etc), perfect topaz 3 socket highest def hat (forgot whats the highest that still has 3 sockets. i think its winged hat or crown hat), perfect mf godly rare (not sure if rare can get the 2 mods, 15% mf and 25% mf, for the max 40% mf on rings, excluding the angelic rings which get 50 with 2 other angelic items) or magical ring (40% mf, resists, AR, LL, ML, etc), perfect mf godly rare (not sure if rare can get the 2 mods, 15% mf and 25% mf, for the max 40% mf on rings, excluding the angelic rings which get 50 with 2 other angelic items) or magical ring (40% mf, resists, AR, LL, ML, etc).

1B. slightly less than max mf but better gear for your char:

*(more defense and resists on any of the items, the non-unique ones, is desired, of course)

perefect topaz socketed godly (resists, +life, +str, 24% FHR, etc) rare ornate (less FWR speed, but more def) or mage (more FWR speed, but less def), perfect mf rare godly amulet (25% mf, resists, +2 barb skills, etc), perfect mf chance guard gloves, perfect mf gold wrap belt, perfect mf rare godly boots (25% mf, 30% FWR, resists, def, etc), perfect topaz 3 socket highest def hat (forgot whats the highest that still has 3 sockets. i think its winged hat or crown hat) or perfect mf tarn hat (if u want the +skill and gold find i think), perfect mf godly rare (not sure if rare can get the 2 mods, 15% mf and 25% mf, for the max 40% mf on rings, excluding the angelic rings which get 50 with 2 other angelic items) or magical ring (40% mf, resists, AR, LL, ML, etc), perfect mf godly rare (not sure if rare can get the 2 mods, 15% mf and 25% mf, for the max 40% mf on rings, excluding the angelic rings which get 50 with 2 other angelic items) or magical ring (40% mf, resists, AR, LL, ML, etc).

1C. AR gear (but less mf): (if u can't hit)

angelic armor, angelic amulet, perfect mf chance guard gloves, perfect mf gold wrap belt, perfect mf rare godly boots (25% mf, 30% FWR, resists, def, etc), perfect topaz 3 socket highest def hat (forgot whats the highest that still has 3 sockets. i think its winged hat or crown hat), angelic ring, angelic ring.

2. weapons gear: (still with mf mindset)

2A. most damage and high speed, but least mf and requires most weapon switching gear:

*first, for frenzy speed boast: godly rare naga (ML, LL, AR, perfect or high damage, etc), godly rare naga (ML, LL, AR, perfect or high damage, etc)

*second, for ww: godly (LL, ML, AR, perfect or high damage, etc) rare AA (ancient axe)

*third (and lastly), for popping: gull, gull

2B. upper medium damage and high speed, but least mf and requires some weapon switching gear:

*first, for frenzy speed boast: godly rare naga (ML, LL, AR, perfect or high damage, etc), godly rare naga (ML, LL, AR, perfect or high damage, etc)

*second, for ww: godly rare naga (ML, LL, AR, perfect or high damage, etc), godly rare naga (ML, LL, AR, perfect or high damage, etc)

*third (and lastly), for popping: gull, gull

2C. lower medium damage and high speed, but medium mf and requires some weapon switching gear:

.....okay....i'm getting tired of listing these combos....what i was gonna put down is:

u could also use 1 naga 1 gull for frenzy and/or ww switch to 2 gulls or not for popping

u could also use 2 gulls for frenzy and/or ww and NOT have to switch when popping since u already using the 2 gulls.
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obviously getting enchanted opens up lots of options since u are using its fire damage and ar boost to kill not merely relying on weapon damage.

think gulls+enchant....
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this is why i choose axe for the weapon mastery. no dex req for either 1h naga or 2h AA. both have good range. naga range 3. AA range 4. range is good for both frenzy and ww. good damage for going with these two other bonuses (range and no dex req and having both good 1h and 2h 's). but taking damage stand alone axes give worse damage than everything except pole arms and maybe swords (i think). the 1h option lets u use it with a gull for some mf and some damage. axes (naga+AA) lets u do all this. so that is why i said to do axe mastery for this type of mf barb build.
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about mace types (bh, mart): they also work but their low range (bh range 1, mart range 3) really hurt for leeching (especially LL) from ww and/or frenzy and with a titan build (no life) and no def (no def skills and no high def gear due to uniques for their mf) u MUST MUST MUST LL and ML (to keep ww'ing so u LL) to stay alive!!!

[EagleEntek]

Man hedge those posts just get longer and longer dont they! :thumbup:

All str (titan) barbs do some impressive dmg and with frenzy for speed and gulls for popping is a great way to magic find - with a few points into the barbs find item skill and some increased speed from frenzy you can whizz around the map and pop champions, mini bosses and the like. Ive found some pretty impressive ornate plates just magic finding in hell act 1, doing the bosses like rakanishu, bishibosh and cold crow with my frenzy / mf''er / popper.

[HegemonKhan]

and i try to make them short as i can.....imagine if i did opposite and never got tired of writing...100 page single posts easy.... :P
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hit the flayer jungle in hell difficulty!!

especially hit the flayer dungeon? that has that enkuko? shaman special monster.

3x drops !!!!!! 1 drop for the shaman form. 1 drop for the fallen form. 1 drop from pop.

3x drops with high mf from a super unique? mosnter !!!!!!

though i ahve no idea what item types and mods he can spawn on those drops.

have to ask creon? or lorg? i think they are the ones who understand it. this was discussed by me and them (i think) in anotehr thread.

[WarlockCC]

Interesting idea, I have a few Frenzy barbs, I never really considered using them for MF'ing. I guess I should remake my Battle Hammer one to give it a shot. Or perhaps I'll just make a new one.

Death Mask, Winged Helm and Grand Crown can get 3 sockets, aswell as their non-exceptional counterparts.

I'll do some speed calculations for this though.
-= edit =-
Flayer Dungeon + Glooms + low life Titan = many, many deaths. :)

I'm not saying Titans are low-lives, they are just low on life.

[HegemonKhan]

the frenzy was more for faster movement (FWR=fast walk run) first, but than secondly, u would usually use ww for your actual killing attack unless u can kill as fast with frenzy.

the frenzy is a "trick" to give u even more movement speed. but its pretty hard to weapon switch from 2 nagas (1h) for frenzy to AA (ancient axe) (2h) for ww before the 6 second frenzy timer runs out and than changing back again...though u could try keeping the 2 nagas for frenzy and ww. no weapon switching except to the gulls for popping.

enchant opens up lots of options where mosnters dont have fire immunity or high fire resistance. lets use use duel (2) nagas for frenzy and/or ww by giving the add-on fire damage and more AR. it lets u use duel gulls (though they break easy....grr) and be able to kill with them using frenzy or ww without having to weapon switch.

ughn, so much for flayer dungeon....

20 into nat res is helpful....but with base vit your life is so low the elem resistance from nat res doesn't help too much and elem attacks can still usually kill u in only a few hits at least until u get clvl 80+ and decent life from the life gain per clvl coming out to be about ~500 life..............

it might be better not doing nat res and putting those 20 points elsewhere
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as for titan build:

this is my reasoning

i want to mf as fast as i can. so that means kill as fast as can. also with using the lower damage axe class and especially if u use 1 handers u need as much str damage bonus as u can get. unless u got godly nagas or ancient axe.

if damage isnt a problem, than by all means pump vit!!!

but say u wanna use a naga + gull than u gonna need lots of str to boost the naga 1h damage up as much as u can since all 1h weapons are too weak to kill.

[WarlockCC]

With fully synergized Frenzy(max frenzy, max taunt, max double swing and max mastery), you can get up to 10 times your weapon's damage if you go half life half str(eventually 270 str).
With battle hammers you need 40ias to hit 7fpa frenzy.

I have some decent 40ias battle hammers, so I guess I'll have to try this. Since my char will be low on skillpoints anyway, I will not take any points in popping. I don't really have time to pop, as this would interrupt the frenzy string. The main thing for me will be to make a Frenzy barb work in Hell, but also adding that MF to make it more interesting will be good.
I think I'll go for the limited MF, but AR driven version. Angelic rings, amu, armor perhaps goldwrap/Chanceguards, otherwise sigons gloves+belt(which will get me to 6.5fpa and give an additional 10ll). Boots will have to be Goblins, but he'll still be very fast (+171%frw with level 20 frenzy).
Note that this barb will not have any skillpoints for BO and will not have much life due to going half life, half str.

[TraderScope]

Interesting idea and as I already got most of the items you described WarlockCC, I might also try this. Let me know how it turns out.

[Maakari]

Uhh I refuse to go Flayer Dungeon, there some nasty dolls ;| when I first time went there, I ww'ed right into boss doll pack, left 50 hp. Man I was shaking after that ;D (this was on Classic hardcore ladder) ^^

[WarlockCC]

Yeah, those dolls can be very nasty, since their death explosion depends on their life. Think about that next time you are pounding away on that might aura stygian doll unique boss. :)

I guess those dolls and glooms are the most dreaded monsters for HC players(not counting the IM casting Oblivion knights) ?

[HegemonKhan]

any monster that has a death splash damage attack is VERY dangerous. be it a fire enchanted monsters death splash (especially, the mentioned, geleb council member in nm) or a "CE-like" dolls' death splash. and the cold ring death from cold enchanted monsters can be deadly too without high life or cold resistance or your really chilled and finished off by other monsters cuz u can't move very fast.

even with a ranged attack (weapon and spell) if the monster is near u, when it dies you'll get hit by its death splash. so be very careful. any attack activates the monsters death splash when it dies, not jsut a melee attack. so make sure when the monster dies from your attack that there is space between u and it.

fire enchanted, lightning enchanted, dolls, gloams, fanaticized hell sies minions, pack of archers especiually cold, are my picks for most deadly monsters in d2 (excluding LAG :D). non-archer cold enchanted monsters are slightly less deadly than the mentioned ones above.

*CE=corpse explosion (necro bone spell)

[WarlockCC]

Interesting idea and as I already got most of the items you described WarlockCC, I might also try this. Let me know how it turns out.
Well, not using any MF other then the Angelic rings so far, actually surviving better then the other frenzy barbs I had.
Using sigons helm+boots, deaths gloves+sash, angelic amu, armor and 2 rings.
138 battle hammer with 40 ias and a 147 battle hammer with 40 ias.
I've been told your second battle hammer doesn't actually need the IAS, as long as they are the same type. I just don't know if that still applies in 1.12
The hammers are both PS socketed(yes, I socketed my 138 a long time ago when it still did 141 damage, I think I got that hammer from Hell Cow King back then).
Currently doing 11xx and 12xx damage with left and right hand, I don't remember the min, but it's probably around 6xx or so.
Right now I am maxing the taunt synergy. Taunt rocks by the way. No more monsters running away, you just taunt them and they come right back to you.
Things to watch out for would be skeletons in Hell(can't leech the buggers) and my main concern is also lightning enchanted monsters. I have -14 lightning resist, so not a lot.