Will archer gameplay be neglected?

[stillman]

I'm a bit worried. In the gameplay video, the arrows fired look about as slow moving as they were in d2. This was an issue in d2 because a very slow enemy could accidently dodge many single shots just by meandering in any direction perpendicular to your chr. The arrows, imo, should be realistically fast enough that you can only see a brief blur. We don't really need to see the detailed arrows flying through the air.

In d2, Diablo looked kind of silly when he was "dodging" your arrows by merely pacing back and forth. You had to run right up close to him and other mosnters to insure those darn slow arrows would hit. Also, a frenzy barb could be made to move faster than the flight of an arrow.

Furthermore, a really good hunter (like an amazon) should be able to compensate for moving targets by aiming her bow to the left of a monster who is moving to her left. The merc archers in the video missed alot. You could see how a nearly missing arrow would count as a hit which helps a lot, but that old d2 method is not good enough. Archers should auto-rotate to compensate for target movments. I hope the archer class in d3 can do more, such as:

-firing arrows while running!! (A passive skill, doens't affect movement)
-pinning monsters to walls
-Aiming for legs to slow/stop monsters
-One hit kills (special critical hit situations you can invest points into)


Sadly, it doesn't look like arrows will be shown sticking into the monsters or walls.

The barb moves look great, but it doesn't seem fair that bodies are animated to break apart, freeze, burn, and get knocked around by melee attacks while the arrows don't have their own special animations tied to their hits.

I don't know about you, but it sure would make my day if the archer class (and possible hirlings) ended up with really awesome looking arrow effects.

[visom]

normally whenever i'm shooting at a movie enemy, i would just either move up closer to them, or shoot at the direction they're moving towards, but moving enemies aren't a problem since once you hit them, they'll charge head first to you (which is a good thing)

-firing arrows while running seems like a cheap pvp skill
-pinning monsters to walls....yea i dont think arrows can hit with enough force to drag a target towards a wall, besides i think thats a bit unnecessary
-aiming for legs? this game isn't like an FPS or something, its diablo: you either hit your target or you dont
-one hit kills? another cheap skill

I prefer a straight forward archer like the zon, I just don't like the fact that she uses strafe/multi shot 99% of the time, which seems boring and makes your other skills completely useless (fire arrow, magical arrow, freezing arrow).

[redrach]

I think stillman has some good ideas here, especially as a lot of them encourage 'creative' gameplay, unlike the usual 'stand at a spot while spamming multishot/strafe'.

My 2 cents:

- Making a fire-while-moving ability a passive seems too 'cheap'. The only other passive abilities that damage enemies while the character is moving are the paladin's offensive auras, and they are severely limited by (relatively) low damage, low triggering rate, and the limitation of only one aura at a time.
The proper way to go about this would be to make this a mana-intensive prebuff, and have each arrow fired at a lower Attack Rating (since its harder to fire while running). For additional balancing, they could have the archer be able to do this at the cost of reduced running speed. Then the player has to think even more - Should I just run far enough from the opponent and fire at him from a safe distance? Or should I spend some mana, and sacrifice on my running speed so I can fire at him while I'm running, hoping that knockback will trigger?

- visom, I don't see why pinning monsters to walls is hard to believe when knockback is already in the game. Think of it as a situational stun - doesn't trigger on every hit, but only when the enemy is knocked back to a wall or obstacle. This would encourage players to position themselves perfectly so that the enemies are between the player and a wall.

- Aiming at the monster's legs could be a 'Hamstring' active ability: An attack fired at a lower attack rating (since its harder to aim for the leg than the torso) which deals bonus damage and slows the target on impact. The slow could stack with the slow from cold damage sources for further viability.

- One hit kills are too overpowered, IMO. The amazon already has a critical strike passive.

[5zigen]

I hope the archer system and ranged combat is good in general. That's usually my first char staple, though never the char I end up beating the game with.

Oh and I dont think a move + fire skill would be very balanced, as it looks like so far the combat system still has the convention of stop to attack or cast as in D1 and 2. If this was changed for a single class it would be very unbalancing.

[Lyrs]

I wish it won't be neglected. Given the impressive graphics that they've put up, I'd think that the archer aspect of the game would be just as appealing as everything else.

On the point of Arrow/bolt speed, I've always been a fan of the Nox Conjurer game play. If you were good, you could do your own ballistics and get off awesome shots; and if you weren't, the arrows/bolts were sufficiently fast enough that you could learn the timing in a few shots.

D2 made it so that the x/bow skills were more important than your own skills. I hope D3 returns some part of the game play back to D1 Rogues.

[stillman]

My main quarrel (get it? Quarrels are aka crossbolts) is that in d2, you had to run up closer to monsters for a good shot. This sort of defeats the purpose of being ranged. It also leads to players being compelled to use strafe or multi only, since multi hits pretty much everything.

5zigen, I think shooting while moving could be balanced if the other classes had similar abilities, like the sorc with blaze, only with blaze being more effective. Of course, they could nerf these skills to begin with like Redrach mentioned. Basically, what I'm calling for is advancements from the old d2 way of things. The arrows should be faster, casters should be able to cast 3+ spells at once (with one mouse click) and there could be melee moves where you also have an auto attack while running past monsters.

[sicilian]

I'm hoping for some kind of revolution to the ranged character. I'm not sure what it could be (I'm drawing a blank right now... I usually have ideas, even if they're terrible), but something that adds a new flavor to the archtype.

The WD has mana, and the Barb has stamina. Both seem to be working off different mechanics, so maybe the Ranger could have its own system? Like Focus, a mana type pool that is tied to the distance between you and an enemy. The closer you are, the more focus it takes to perform the same skills. That way you could make the class dependent on using strategies to keep distance, otherwise you're going to run out of Focus a lot quicker.

Oh, and on slow moving projectiles, I half agree. I think the player's arrows should move faster, but the monsters should still be capable of being avoided. I liked that I could dodge enemy arrows using skill rather than luck in some cases, especially when I was playing a skelemancer.

[raishi]

the move and attack thing could be kinda like charge for the pally...low attack ratting and less damage and the arrows are fired in the general direction of the nearest monster...like running past a group and firing random arrows into it hoping to hit something while not slowing your movement down...too much at least...or something along those lines...pin to a wall with an arrow...been watching too many movies i see...sounds like an idea...the archer types never really had any type of stun or slowing besides their three ice attacks...best one could hope for is knockback on their bow and hit with alot of attacks...so plausible idea...

[Apocalypse]

i fully expect a archer class and i am positive they will have them updated and fun to play. the idea of leg shots is actually good. i mean you obviously dont get to aim but a skill could be "leg shot" where a hit will slow monsters by X % for X duration

[visom]

So how would you guys think leg shot would work?

When an arrow is fired:

20% arm shot
10% headshot
35% body shot
35% leg shot

am i right? so let me guess, headshot=1hit kill, legshot=reduced damage

i do like the idea of legshot that reduces speed, but i dont think you can "aim" for a particular part of the monsters, legshot would make a great skill though, it can be like:
damage:-50%
reduces speed by: 50%

[ill logic]

Well, in the interest of variety, I want to see some arcing shots that can pass over obstacles in a manner similar to the WD's firebomb.

Running and gunning like a skirmisher may not be OP in PvP. They could add anything from nerfs to running speed to severely reduced damage, which goes for comparative killing speed in PvM. Personally, I'm really interested in PvP and care more about that being balanced than how well each char does in PvM. Moving while shooting could be a boon against charging/shockwaving Barbs (but please no Guided Arrow...or Bone Spirit for that matter)

[raishi]

people will always figure a way to have a broken pvp char that will tear you apart with your own arm...

[ciphernemo]

lol, raishi, very true.

As for the speed of arrows, I'm not really too concerned with this so long as you're able to fire arrows quickly (ie: rapid fire) and never have to worry about running out of arrows (ie: don't treat arrows like ammo).

If you can fire them quickly enough, and lay down a nice covering of arrows, they can move as slow as they did in the past and I'd still be happy. However, if nothing improves, then I'd agree, D3 needs to have arrows fired travel much faster.

We only need a little line and blur effect for each arrow. We don't need detailed graphics here, lol. Fire arrow = 2 more pixels width of red at the front of the arrow, Cold arrow = 2... you get the idea.

[Apocalypse]

So how would you guys think leg shot would work?

i do like the idea of legshot that reduces speed, but i dont think you can "aim" for a particular part of the monsters, legshot would make a great skill though, it can be like:
damage:-50%
reduces speed by: 50%


pretty much exactly what i said in my last post. you have it be a slow down skill where it starts with lower damage if need be for balance and that damage penelty gets lessened with levels. at the same time the amount slowed and duration of slow would increase with level up. for sure it cannot be a passive skill but it would be a cool skill imo

[LarryPaul]

Also, we need magic arrows. Nothing overpowered. Realisticly fitting stuff like "replenish quantity", "chance of open wounds" or "chance of critical strike"... you get the drift

[Grawner]

well, i think a cool effect would be, if you saw the bow being loaded! sure it would take about 5 min, you would get killed 100 times, but it would look cool!

pepz, there is a reason for arrows travelling at that speed.. if they are to fast, the game is just to easy!