Fireclaw Shield Debate

[tatter]

First, I would like to appologize if the questions I'm asking were already answered in a guide. None of the guides that I found were published after the 1.11 patch, so I doubt it.

Anyways, which shield is better for a fireclaw bear druid; Spirit in a monarch or Stormshield? Assume that you can have any other equipment in the game to accompany it.

Secondly, is it worth maxing your block rate? Im already at nearly 200 dex at level 56 and my block is only 63% with the Spirit monarch. Thats a whole lot of points that can't be spent in vit.

Thanks for your view/answers :alright:

[superjayson]

there is an fc druid guide in the stickied thread at the top of this forum. you really didnt look hard enough.

to answer your question you'd have to tell me wether this is for pvm or pvp. if its pvp the stormshield. spirit has a horrible blocking rate aka you would be blocking slow and the chance to block is even worse, meaning you'd be spending a crap load of dex just to achieve crappy blocking.

for pvp its stormshield + maxblock. for pvm its not necessary.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

Not to mention, you should NOT go max block with a spirit.

[Queen Mebd]

there is an fc druid guide in the stickied thread at the top of this forum. you really didnt look hard enough.

If you having trouble finding the stickies, take a look at superjayson's Guide to Finding the Stickies (http://img229.imageshack.us/img229/2139/learntoreadtf7.jpg), it's über-helpful.

p.s. welcome to the forums. :wave:

[lumpor]

I don't think there's a good guide either. One is for pvm and one is for hardcore. There is no softcore pvm fireclaws bear guide.

I don't know why a spirit would be good though. A 4-facet monarch would increase your damage more than +2 to fireclaws. Since druids have no mastery, getting +skill damage and -enemy resistance should be a top priority

[Queen Mebd]

I don't think there's a good guide either. One is for pvm and one is for hardcore. There is no softcore pvm fireclaws bear guide.

Wait, there is or is not a pvm guide? Zinc's guide is excellent and more than applicable to softcore...besides, it shouldn't be hard to think up some gear choices based on one's own budget based on the ias, fhr, fcr breakpoints and other goals laid out in both Zinc and Jayson's guides. :rolleyes:

A Spirit or faceted monarch are both decent choices (keep in mind the -res from the jeweled monarch won't be breaking any immunities), +skills really boost fireclaws damage by thousands when it's well synergized. I really wouldn't worry to much about packing on -res, focus on +skills and speed, as you won't be breaking any immunities even with an Infinity in hell. You can easily get a little crushing blow and some help from Waheed for immunes.

However Spirit and a faceted monarch both suffer from the same detractor; both lack any fbr, so when you do block it'll be very noticeable. If you're going to use either, actually keep dexterity as low as possible to minimize the chance to block and just pump vitality. Don't worry about loosing out on ar as fireclaws has a wonderful percentage ar boost.

[lumpor]

Well, the thing with hardcore guides, is that they just focus on defense, defense, and defense. Where should I look if I want to see how I should max out my offensive capabilities?

A raise from level 40 to 42, is a 5% increase in levels, and since fireclaws doesn't have diminishing or rising returns, that means a 5% increase in damage. A 4 facet monarch multiplies fire damage by 1,2*1,2=1,44. So that's a 44% increase in damage, against monsters with 0% resistance. If they have more resistance, that's an even bigger increase in damage. If infinity makes the resistance lower than 0% already, the boost is lowered, but a 4 facet monarch will always multiply your damage by at least 29,7% according to my calculations. Lower if you got a facet in your jalas, or if you got a ravenlore, or if you got a faceted ravenlore. With little to no +skill damage or -enemy res, your damage won't be amplified. One of the basics in multiplication is that two medium-sized numbers multiplied by each other yield a bigger result than one big number and one small number multiplied by each other.

You may be losing max block, but even with fbr, the blocing speed is still going to be mediocre, and werebears get lots of life for evey vit point, due to lycan. Doesn't matter much in soft, anyway.

[BAMFSpecialOps]

Lumpor, not to be harsh or anything, but sometimes you do have to think for yourself. Guides are there to be a layout for your own build, not to copy word for word piece for piece. They help you understand a build and what worked for them to get through the game.

You answered your own question about gaining more damage, it's actually that easy. Look for +skills for spells, and +%/-% to that element. Tweak your gear until it fits how you play the game if its actually playing through the game or standing in the throne room.

[lumpor]

I'm sorry, bamfs, I don't seem to follow. I don't follow guides word for word. I've never seen a guide that I've completely agreed with. I'm not saying that anyone should be forced to choose some special option. It's all up to playstyle and preference. I do however prefer making builds reach their full potential, instead of knowing "this character could've been better if i was more patient". I've never found a guide that I've whole-heartedly agreed on (though 2 have come close), and therefore, I never follow every word.

[Jary]

Well, the thing with hardcore guides, is that they just focus on defense, defense, and defense. Where should I look if I want to see how I should max out my offensive capabilities?
Well obviously survivability takes priority over damage in hardcore... I think that's obvious. And in all practicality, I don't think 4 facet monarch is even a reasonable option for a lotta ppl in hardcore... just so you know, so in a guide it should only be an honorable mention.


or if you got a ravenlore, or if you got a faceted ravenlore
Mentioning ravenlore sorta put a damper on your credibility. Its a horrible option, you're losing +4 skills, +30% fhr/resists, and like half your AR.


You may be losing max block, but even with fbr, the blocing speed is still going to be mediocre
If you're using a Monarch, you're gonna have 0% FBR, so basically... for one, you'd be stupid to even try to block, you'd almost have to go vita. You'd be blocking at 12 frames which is like mollasses slow, get stuck in a mob of monsters or archers and that could end you 'cause you're revoery rate>10 second cooldown so no room to land a hit.
Stormshield is by far, undisputed, the best option. You get max block rather easily... great resistsance to cover gaps in resist, 35% damage reduction, and can easily achieve 6-8 frame FBR. My Fireclaw bear that I used about a year go used 4 ffacet monarch.. its a lotta fun to use for like Cow games and such, but not at all practical in general play since I end up with horrible DR & resists that cap at like 50%. The damage is great, but as far as the "best" overall/balanced option its far from. My favorite use for it was dueling Bone Necros & hammerdins... don't have to worry bout resists, can still use enigma and nothing compares to it in damage :thumbsup:


werebears get lots of life for evey vit point, due to lycan
misconception. Druids get horrible vita returns compared to a lot of classes. The majority of your life comes from +life gear/charms like Aldurs boots, blood fists, +20 lifeys, etc. Also to mention, +vita/lvl gear is sorta bugged since it doesn't get amplified by lyc, etc. (aka Dungos, bk's..)

When you really weigh out "how effective" using a 4ffacet Monarch is...

vs
PvM: You want block, dr, good all around balance, etc. It doesn't offer that, just damage. so not a good option.
Barbs: block, DR? great damage but you need SS, you'll get owned.
Smiters: you need FHR & DR. no damage reduction so still not a good option.
sorcs/javas: poor resists, not a good option.
bowazons: poor Block, DR. Not a good option
Shapers: poor block recovery & damage reduction & resist. I'd never use
Windy: Cyclone sorbs regardless of -%. You need 50% DR and good hit recovery again.... monarch doesn't offer, not a good option.
Hammerdins: Great option, since one of few cases you can just focus on smacking them all out with damage :thumbup:
Necros: bone armor does nothing against fireclaw, great time to maximize your damage and just let them pay.:thumbup:

[lumpor]

Well obviously survivability takes priority over damage in hardcore... I think that's obvious. And in all practicality, I don't think 4 facet monarch is even a reasonable option for a lotta ppl in hardcore... just so you know, so in a guide it should only be an honorable mention.

Yes, I know. I was talking about the lack of softcore guides. I know why hardcore guides just think about defense. There was someone who posted that hardcore guides can be used for a softcore bear, so I just wanted to point out that there's a big difference between them.


Mentioning ravenlore sorta put a damper on your credibility. Its a horrible option, you're losing +4 skills, +30% fhr/resists, and like half your AR.

It was just an example. I could've said hand of justice too. Didn't really matter


If you're using a Monarch, you're gonna have 0% FBR, so basically... for one, you'd be stupid to even try to block, you'd almost have to go vita. You'd be blocking at 12 frames which is like mollasses slow, get stuck in a mob of monsters or archers and that could end you 'cause you're revoery rate>10 second cooldown so no room to land a hit.
Stormshield is by far, undisputed, the best option. You get max block rather easily... great resistsance to cover gaps in resist, 35% damage reduction, and can easily achieve 6-8 frame FBR. My Fireclaw bear that I used about a year go used 4 ffacet monarch.. its a lotta fun to use for like Cow games and such, but not at all practical in general play since I end up with horrible DR & resists that cap at like 50%. The damage is great, but as far as the "best" overall/balanced option its far from. My favorite use for it was dueling Bone Necros & hammerdins... don't have to worry bout resists, can still use enigma and nothing compares to it in damage :thumbsup:

You must've misunderstood. I wasn't saying that it's good getting max block with a monarch. I was saying how max block isn't 1000 times better than not having it for a werebear. I was merely trying to formulate how max block didn't tip the scale as much as mebd thought. Also, I never said a 4 facet monarch was the best option. I said that since spirit was the offensive option of the 2 shields, I was trying to state my opinion on how a 4 facet monarch gave even more offense. I wasn't saying it should be the shield of choice for all werebears, I just wanted to say that it should be the offensive candidate, and not spirit.


misconception. Druids get horrible vita returns compared to a lot of classes. The majority of your life comes from +life gear/charms like Aldurs boots, blood fists, +20 lifeys, etc. Also to mention, +vita/lvl gear is sorta bugged since it doesn't get amplified by lyc, etc. (aka Dungos, bk's..)
With lycan, druids still get more than paladins. I'm not saying it's crucial, but it does make a difference


When you really weigh out "how effective" using a 4ffacet Monarch is...

vs
PvM: You want block, dr, good all around balance, etc. It doesn't offer that, just damage. so not a good option.
Barbs: block, DR? great damage but you need SS, you'll get owned.
Smiters: you need FHR & DR. no damage reduction so still not a good option.
sorcs/javas: poor resists, not a good option.
bowazons: poor Block, DR. Not a good option
Druid vs Druid: poor block recovery & damage reduction & resist. I'd never use
Windy: Cyclone sorbs regardless of -%. You need 50% DR and good hit recovery again.... monarch doesn't offer, not a good option.
Hammerdins: Great option, since one of few cases you can just focus on smacking them all out with damage :thumbup:
Necros: bone armor does nothing against fireclaw, great time to maximize your damage and just let them pay.:thumbup:

I was meaning PvM. As I said before, I was merely saying it was the best offensive candidate, not the best option overall

[Jary]

aight man. I agree it is a really friggin awesome choice for all out offense.

I remember a few years back... my FC went all 4 synergies and 1 point Lycanth route. I've always been a huge fan of going all out damage route so I feel you in that dude :thumbup: I think I was pulling like 6.2-6.4k life and 17-18k damage with SS... almost 23k with Monarch lol, cow games were really fun.
Heh... I just remember it turned into some huge debate about 4 syn vs 3 syn+lycanth =P But either way... nothing looks sexier than 20+ damage you gotta admit, take that haters :alright: lol

[lumpor]

Yeah, I've always liked offense more, even though it's less practical. I'd rather upgrade from awesome to super-awesome in one category than bad to mediocre in another.

[Arek]

for shield i would choose stormshield, maybe whistans or upped mosers. defence = offence in most cases. rescuing your corpse every five minutes definitely isnt the way to go..

[lumpor]

If you remembered to use a tp it may be worth it