1 refund point for every 10 stats?

[wilbert]

Sounds good to me. I don't like having to have an exact stat set just for an item, example this bow has |str|req of 132 so i set my stats that I earned to 132, then i find an item that adds 15 to my |str| Uhh... ya feedback?

Best of luck to making DIABLO 3, No, Best of skill to making DIABLO 3 :thumbup:

[Apocalypse]

i would not mind if the game set the item requirements to be based on base attributes, not overall. i see good and bad to this though. on one side it forces people to get more than just vit, or just enough to wear 1 pierce of equipment to get thier gear on. on the down side however it could take away from characters being customized, force everyone being the same. then again everyone just follows a cookie cutter now anyway

[wilbert]

i would not mind if the game set the item requirements to be based on base attributes, not overall. i see good and bad to this though. on one side it forces people to get more than just vit, or just enough to wear 1 pierce of equipment to get thier gear on. on the down side however it could take away from characters being customized, force everyone being the same. then again everyone just follows a cookie cutter now anyway

I don't know, but the way I see it, anyway to refund stat points is better than no way.

[Apocalypse]

well then you are in luck as the game will have some form of respec i am sure

[JunkStory]

Actually.. the game will be much more interesting if there were no str/dex requirements for using items. I mean, having item str/dex requirements only forces all players to make identical characters, with identical attributes, identical equipment, etc. Very boring IMO..

With no str/dex requirements, we will see much more interesting players, such as a sword wielding Witch Doctor, or a Bow shooting Barbarian, etc..

[SlechtWeerBeer]

We already have such odd builds. They just aren't as effective, thus people run cookie cutting pastry chefs. W/o requirement, everyone would need base str, base dex and base nrg. Pumping Vit was never so much fun!

[snugglson]

if you get rid of item req's, you might as well get rid of adding state points and make every class gain certain points in each attribute at every level up.

[iroll]

perhaps an item recommendation? if you have an armor that has a recommendation of 50 str and you have 40 str, it only works at 80% efficiency, with a limit on the lowest percent possible (50%?). this may, however, add to the the already complicating hidden mechanisms in the game.

[Voorhees]

if you get rid of item req's, you might as well get rid of adding state points and make every class gain certain points in each attribute at every level up.
That doesn't even make sense to me. Just because one doesn't have to worry about requirements doesn't mean they don't want stat control over their character. Who's to say I don't want all my attributes in dex or vita or whatever. Not being able to control stat allocation is weak and the thing I hate the most about wow , along with binding.
I'm all for stat reseting. The game will have to have a lot more content than D2 to do it though, in my opinion. Seems most people get their replay value out of trying out new builds and whatnot, if you don't have to level a new character, then the time it takes to try out all the builds drops drastically and what keeps people playing suddenly dies a lot quicker. Especially if they're only going to do the 5 classes to start with thing again. With re-spec ability, I predict being bored with the game in a couple months or so, unless as I said, it is drastically different.

[SnickerSnack]

Notice that his statement is an if-then type statement. He is pointing out the absurdity of the first clause by linking it to the subordinate clause. In other words, he knows that fixed stat gains are a bad idea, he assumed that he didn't need to say it.

His claim is not that we shouldn't get to choose stat allocations, it is that the first and second clauses are related.

[Brother Laz]

Sounds good to me. I don't like having to have an exact stat set just for an item, example this bow has |str|req of 132 so i set my stats that I earned to 132, then i find an item that adds 15 to my |str| Uhh... ya feedback?

Strength isn't just for item reqs. It also adds damage. If Blizzard had done their job properly, it would have added enough damage to make it worth it to pump str to boost your damage. Unfortunately...

......

That said, I'm much less opposed to stat respecs than skill respecs, or even a removal of stats altogether. Face it, stats offer very little room for real customisation (much less than skills), and there is a clear 'best stat build' that isn't any different from the worse builds, it is just better. The fact that you can waste points if you didn't count on having as many +str/dex as you ended up having is just the final nail.

So what we have is a customisation option that needs to be set a certain way, gimps your character if you do it differently, gimps your character if you acquire better items than expected, and doesn't even give rise to significantly different builds.

......

But imho, stats are a lost cause. In Median, energy adds to spell damage and str/dex bonuses are much more pronounced, giving you about 1000% extra damage if you invest heavily into the stat. There are even items and skills with +% stats to reward pumping something else than vitality.

Guess what people invest in... vita vita vita.

The reason is that damage is only the best defense up to a point. If the game actually gets hard (and Median uberlevels do get hard), then you can no longer eliminate threats before they smash you. So you want more vitality to survive.

......

D3 will encounter the same problem if it is actually supposed to be hard now. I say, get rid of stats and put in some sort of gauge that is based on class and level and each item you equip drains some of the gauge. You cannot go below 0. Oh, and there should be no items or skills that increase the gauge.

This would require the player to actually make choices in terms of gear, instead of just getting more +str charms and putting all points into vitality.

[Gigashadow]

Actually.. the game will be much more interesting if there were no str/dex requirements for using items. I mean, having item str/dex requirements only forces all players to make identical characters, with identical attributes, identical equipment, etc. Very boring IMO..

With no str/dex requirements, we will see much more interesting players, such as a sword wielding Witch Doctor, or a Bow shooting Barbarian, etc..I don't exactly agree with you here. I think the reason Diablo II characters often ended up the same is not because of requirements, but because of the disbalance of attributes.

For instance, in a normal situation, a sorcerer would want to pump mana, and a barbarian would want to pump strength, for better attack. A barbarian would have more health than a sorcerer as well. What results is the sorcerer having low-STR gear (light armor), and the barbarian wielding heavy axes and plate mail. This was the general situation with Diablo I.

In Diablo II, Strength became pretty useless. Nobody wants to pump it, except for gear. Energy is also not so hot. Mana can be acquired through mana leach, regeneration, and other ways. No one is really promted to pump Energy. It's not even a requirement for any items anymore. What else is there? Dexterity. Does it make bows all that powerful? Again, not really. But it gives chance to block, that's why many do pump it. Vitality is the only thing that is going to be really pumped because everyone likes having a health buffer.

Even if you have restrictions, you can still have a sword wielding sorceress due to special skills, such as enchant, static field, etc., although, of course, it's harder to do, but that's understandable - it's a different class. Every class should be unique, and it shouldn't be possible to repeat one class through another, to make a warrior out of a witch doctor. In Diablo I, the Warrior was best with melee because of this high STR limit, and he could not get enough mana for Apocalypse. This made him quite unique.

[Apocalypse]

no requirements would be stupid, d2 had alot of different characters and different builds then over time item drops started to mass and godly items became common. so now these certain people make godly characters with such power items they look like they are the best build ever, so everyone copies then a few alter some things and suddenly they are the best ever, rinse and repeat. this will happen with or without requirements on items

[SnickerSnack]

Dexterity. Does it make bows all that powerful? Again, not really.

Wrong. Dex gives a damage bonus to ranged attacks.

But it gives chance to block, that's why many do pump it.

For some classes/builds, that's more important than vita.

Vitality is the only thing that is going to be really pumped because everyone likes having a health buffer.

Ever heard of a glass cannon? Or a max ES sorc? Max Block?

[Gigashadow]

Wrong. Dex gives a damage bonus to ranged attacks.Did I say that it doesn't? Learn to read, please. I said nobody cares for it.

For some classes/builds, that's more important than vita.Did I dispute that?

Ever heard of a glass cannon? Or a max ES sorc? Max Block?I don't speak in abbreviations or Diablo II slang, sorry. And I did mention that people pump dexterity for chance to block, didn't I? Learn to read before jumping at people. I don't remember attacking you.

Not only are you being offensive, but you are also disregarding the main point of my post regarding item requirements and stats...

[Chard]

I'm all for the gauge idea, however would it function better associated with a stat or as its own stand alone thing that increases each level a set amount. Whats important to note here however is if you look at the skill description boxes on the WD page it shows his fire bomb (I think) skill doing a set amount of damage. Might this modified damage structure (however it turns out over all) be an effective way to spread stat points around when combined with greater ancillary effects and bonuses to the other stats?

Note also the assumptions being made in the discussion as a whole, we are mostly assuming that level gaining and stat points will be linked in a similar way as they are in D2, however in the gameplay video we have there is clearly a book dropped when the Barbarian touches the bookcase titled: Illegible of Vitality 1. What this means for what we can infer is that the information we have suggests a broader range of possibilities than relying on our past experience allows.

I don't know what that book does but the Vitality 1 part is pretty clear if you look close enough on the video. *shrug*

[Voorhees]

Notice that his statement is an if-then type statement. He is pointing out the absurdity of the first clause by linking it to the subordinate clause. In other words, he knows that fixed stat gains are a bad idea, he assumed that he didn't need to say it.

His claim is not that we shouldn't get to choose stat allocations, it is that the first and second clauses are related.
Only if you assume that both are a bad idea, which works for you and obviously him, but it falls short with people like myself who don't particularly think stat requirements on weapons are necessary. In fact, not only do I not find them necessary, I also find them quite inappropriate both thematically and functionally. For instance, what good does strength do for an archer? Not much, really, yet we see it as a seemingly arbitrary requirement on many of the bows in d2. Why should I have to heavily invest in both strength and dexterity when only one of them gives me any real benefit?
On a side note, just because someone makes a decent sentence does not mean they make a decent point.

[HeroQuest]

Why are people so concerned about making "the best build possible"? The game is still playable without such a build. Infact it never used to be much of an issue at all pre 1.10. Now all of a sudden we have an overwhelming number of people who immediately want the best items and the best chars, and probably 90% of those have never played the game as it was intended.

Having a piece of armour with str req of 180 makes you consider whether it is worth spending those points in strength for that one item, or would it be better to use the stat points elsewhere, and make do with your current armour.

I mean, what exactly is the point of these "godly builds". By the time youve made your char, you've already been rushed through the whole game. So what is it? Some sort of OCD people have with wanting THE best char possible? Some sort of superiority complex? I mean, whats SO cringeworthy of having to invest extra points into stat allocation. Are some people really that anal that it cuts so deep to see a character thats better than theirs?

I hope blizzard make the game so that you HAVE to play the game as it was intended to be played. Maybe that would filter out all these "i want gozu items and chars and i want them now (grabs daddy's credit card)" kids.

Sorry for the rant, but youre basically asking for blizzard to cater to your backwards playing style.

[Voorhees]

Sorry for the rant, but youre basically asking for blizzard to cater to your backwards playing style.

I get a lot of what your saying, but this line killed me. I mean, they are trying to SELL the game right?
Is it such horrible business sense to cater to your customer base to some extent?
And as for the best character thing. Yes. After you've played this game for X amount of years with next to no new content, and after you've made every character X amount of times it pretty much comes down to fine tuning gear and stats to be a bit better than that last time you made it. Face it, when you first start playing this game it seems like there is a lot of variety, but sooner or later that variety seems to boil down quite a bit.

[Vulcon]

And as for the best character thing. Yes. After you've played this game for X amount of years with next to no new content, and after you've made every character X amount of times it pretty much comes down to fine tuning gear and stats to be a bit better than that last time you made it. Face it, when you first start playing this game it seems like there is a lot of variety, but sooner or later that variety seems to boil down quite a bit.

What makes D2 such an enjoyable game to replay, for me, is that I am a collector. My aim is to try and gather as many of the uniques and sets as I can. I only play single player and never transfer from one build to another, but I do record what I have found and thoroughly enjoy ticking it off Gorgoniums checklist to see how far along I have come, (Currently 62% of all Uniques, sets and runes). Because of this I have being playing D2 regularly for the last 7 years, pretty much for 2/3 months every 5/6 months. I had in fact restarted to play the game in march and I'm STILL enjoying it :thumbup:

Different build + collecting = lots of fun :jig:

[HeroQuest]

I see where youre coming from, but in my eyes its not worth comprimising integrity for profit. I'm not saying at all that Blizzard will see it the same way, though i pray they do. And i totally agree that its sometimes difficult to find fun in a game that you've done to death. However, the Diablo games have all been relatively large, and replayable. Surely that puts making the "perfect char" way down the things to do list? Well, sadly, not for some.

I cant quite place the mentality of such folk, only suggest that there are some that play for the enjoyment and playing experience, whereas others play for a more "alpha male" reason. They have to be the best. At all costs.

I just wish these people would stick to open b.net

[blankblank]

no, no, no. That takes the fun of strategy being able to plan your character well. maybe they can work it out as you are able to deallocate 10% of your alloted stats. Say you invest 100 points into energy, you can deallocate and reassign points to other stats by a maximum of 10 points. Not sure if this is what the threadstarter means but he didnt specify what 1 refund point does.

And removing requirements for items doesnt fit this game. They can remove requirements from items like bow, as everyone should be able to use a bow, but the accuracy should depend way more on dex more than it was on D2. But for other items, no. Sorcs should not be able to wear heavy armors, this is a "role playing game" after all. better yet, change the Energy stat into Intelligence. Same effect, but some items will now have intelligence requirement. Barbarians are not supposed to be efficient in using all those magical equipments since they do not understand them so.

[Greizer]

And i totally agree that its sometimes difficult to find fun in a game that you've done to death. However, the Diablo games have all been relatively large, and replayable. Surely that puts making the "perfect char" way down the things to do list? Well, sadly, not for some.

Why is it sad that some people enjoy different things in the game than you do? I can assure you, after 7+ years of playing there is not much else for me to do in this game than 'getting rich' (which is imo the biggest thing/feeling the game has to offer after the very first playthrough) and making the best possible char with those riches. For me it's not about boosting a weak ego, at least not all of it; I never brag about my items but I do feel good when someone notices them.


I cant quite place the mentality of such folk, only suggest that there are some that play for the enjoyment and playing experience, whereas others play for a more "alpha male" reason. They have to be the best. At all costs.

I just wish these people would stick to open b.net
I will place the mentality for you then: I want to gather stuff. Lots of it. It is easy and gives a nice sense of accomplishment. I want to kill stuff. Lots of it. It is relaxing (like drinking/fighting to an extent, but not harmful). It also boosts my ego (in a harmless way, I might add).

Sure, there are people, botters & scammers etc., that will be rude to other people and 'use whatever means necessary'. That doesn't have to be the norm however, and even if it is, you don't have to 'follow the herd' if you want to get moderately rich in this game. That is, to feel rich, not necessarily exceed the median amount of riches people have in the game. This is because the best items cost ridiculous amounts of 'game money', much like in the real world in fact.

Edit: To be not totally offtopic: I'm all for respecs. The more extensive, the better. If all points can be re-allocated (maybe once a week, to prevent abuse in dueling), that means I only have to make one char per character class, as opposed to dozens. To me, 'gaming experience' = 'becoming godly', after a short while anyway (in the Diablo games). The less boring obstacles I have to tackle to get that feeling, the better. I have underlined the word 'boring' because I find leveling chars boring - not mf. However, if they make the game more varying/harder - ie. make leveling a challenge - I'm all for it, if we also have the option of heavy respecs.