View Full Version : Better Melee/Caster balance in D3??
RibGriller
19-07-2008, 05:24
It's almost as if Blizzard said, "Well, the grunts have Life Leech to keep them alive, so they don't need more power". So, the Blizzsorcs and LFzons are tearing through huge mobs with a couple casts while the grunts (melee chars) have virtually no AoE to compare with, and have to run like little girls whenever Iron Maiden is casted on them. Not only that, they're killing is sloth-like whenever they get chilled or Decrepified, while the casters keep casting at their normal rate.
Honestly, I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever Blizzard comes up with, but it'd be awesome if they beefed up the in-your-face combat a little. Fine, nerf LL some more, but give the grunts more AoE power! :thumbup:
Btw, I did see that Leep Attack looks like it has some kind of AoE, and I'd like them to keep it up. Like maybe a superfast Chain Charge that works like Chain Lightning in D2. Or maybe power slamming a mummy into a group of skellies with bones and body parts flying everywhere. Who knows...
It's almost as if Blizzard said, "Well, the grunts have Life Leech to keep them alive, so they don't need more power". So, the Blizzsorcs and LFzons are tearing through huge mobs with a couple casts while the grunts (melee chars) have virtually no AoE to compare with, and have to run like little girls whenever Iron Maiden is casted on them. Not only that, they're killing is sloth-like whenever they get chilled or Decrepified, while the casters keep casting at their normal rate.
Honestly, I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever Blizzard comes up with, but it'd be awesome if they beefed up the in-your-face combat a little. Fine, nerf LL some more, but give the grunts more AoE power! :thumbup:
Btw, I did see that Leep Attack looks like it has some kind of AoE, and I'd like them to keep it up. Like maybe a superfast Chain Charge that works like Chain Lightning in D2. Or maybe power slamming a mummy into a group of skellies with bones and body parts flying everywhere. Who knows...
I think melee classes will have much much more aoe, on par w/ casters in d2
It's almost as if Blizzard said, "Well, the grunts have Life Leech to keep them alive, so they don't need more power". So, the Blizzsorcs and LFzons are tearing through huge mobs with a couple casts while the grunts (melee chars) have virtually no AoE to compare with, and have to run like little girls whenever Iron Maiden is casted on them. Not only that, they're killing is sloth-like whenever they get chilled or Decrepified, while the casters keep casting at their normal rate.
Honestly, I'm sure I'll be happy with whatever Blizzard comes up with, but it'd be awesome if they beefed up the in-your-face combat a little. Fine, nerf LL some more, but give the grunts more AoE power! :thumbup:
Btw, I did see that Leep Attack looks like it has some kind of AoE, and I'd like them to keep it up. Like maybe a superfast Chain Charge that works like Chain Lightning in D2. Or maybe power slamming a mummy into a group of skellies with bones and body parts flying everywhere. Who knows...
I didn't have that problem in D2.
How did you come to such conclusion?
Oh and isn't this for the D2 section, this hasn't anything to do with D3, since its not released yet!
Deuterium
19-07-2008, 05:49
You only have to look at the preliminary Barbarian skills to realise that the melee gameplay (in particular) is a whole different ball game. It looked a lot more fluid, visceral and with less of the laboured hold-down-LMB, move, hold-down-LMB, move, hold-down-LMB jerkiness of D2 melee. Honestly after going from a Meteorb sorc to a Barb it felt like being forced to bring a knife to a gunfight.
I reckon the disparity will be greatly diminished if not solved entirely.
RibGriller
19-07-2008, 09:05
Yep, I just watched the D3 vid again and every Barb attack looked like it could kill multiple monsters. Woot, I can't wait!
mince pies
19-07-2008, 21:56
What does AoE actually mean? I never understood that
What does AoE actually mean? I never understood that
Area of effect.
For example, in D2 a berserk barbarian had to actually hit every single enemy because it was not aoe at all.
A fireball sorc had a small aoe, killing a few enemies with each cast.
A LF javazon had a huge aoe attack, potentially hitting everything on the screen multiple times.
Nostavar
19-07-2008, 22:02
It means Area of Effect.
To above poster; technically lightning fury isn't AoE at all since it doesn't affect an area. It's just a multi-target skill.
It means Area of Effect.
To above poster; technically lightning fury isn't AoE at all since it doesn't affect an area. It's just a multi-target skill.
It actually is an area of effect skill. Its area of effect is the whole screen. It has multiple targets but each enemy is typically hit more than 1 time.
AoE in my book means that you can hit one enemy and others who happen to be close get hit, too. Not because they also become targets (as with LF) but just because they are in the same area. So it's like splash damage.
Not sure how e.g. Poison Nova would fit, since you target nobody...
I just want the melee class to have more attack rating since to me, it seems a bit unfair that spells never miss, but attacks do. I know that spells require mana so it shouldn't miss to compensate for that, but melee skills require mana as well, shouldn't they also be perfectly accurate?
either make both spells and melee attacks miss on some occassions
or
make melee skills that consumes mana (bash, zeal, berserk) never miss
JunkStory
20-07-2008, 04:57
It has been in one of the Q&A's said that the classes in D3 will be very well balanced.
But yeah, I can only hope this to be true. In D2, magic casters always pwn most other classes.
You only have to look at the preliminary Barbarian skills...
If you are referring to the gameplay video, I dont think those skills were "preliminary". As seen in the video, most of it has been set up by Blizzard to make it more interesting and fluid. I wouldnt be surprised if that character was at a very high level for that area, giving him all those skills.
Deuterium
20-07-2008, 05:29
If you are referring to the gameplay video, I dont think those skills were "preliminary". As seen in the video, most of it has been set up by Blizzard to make it more interesting and fluid. I wouldnt be surprised if that character was at a very high level for that area, giving him all those skills.
By preliminary I was referring to the skills that we have current knowledge of, 'provisional' or 'revealed' if you will. I'm aware that not all of those skills will be available from level 1.
AoE in my book means that you can hit one enemy and others who happen to be close get hit, too. Not because they also become targets (as with LF) but just because they are in the same area. So it's like splash damage.
Not sure how e.g. Poison Nova would fit, since you target nobody...
What you're describing is "splash damage" which is a specific type of AoE.
Just to point out further, say there are 10 enemies on the screen and you throw a LF at the first one and they're all in a line.
10 lightning bolts will hit the FIRST enemy, and all other enemies, even if the javelin doesnt peirce. If it was a multi target attack it would simply hit each enemy 1 time, which isnt the case.
But that's beyond the point, if something affects an area and is an attack it's an area of effect attack... Otherwise things like Teeth and Multishot wouldnt be considered an AOE attack when they clearly are, they just cant hit each enemy more than one time.
Things like Frost Nova, Nova and Poison Nova are typically called PBAOE (point blank aoe) spells.
By preliminary I was referring to the skills that we have current knowledge of, 'provisional' or 'revealed' if you will. I'm aware that not all of those skills will be available from level 1.
Ah. my bad.
I honestly don't think Poison Nova is anything close to being "Point Blank". A level 1 static field is PBAOE.
I honestly don't think Poison Nova is anything close to being "Point Blank". A level 1 static field is PBAOE.
... That's what it is though. you can try to make up as many new items as you want, but generally aoe that emminates from the caster is PBAOE...
Anything that hits multiple targets is aoe, there are just different types of aoe.
that would make zeal and double swing aoes also...strafe and chain lightning...and a hand full of other attacks of the same nature...while they hit multiple things they don't hit an area...they create or are a chain of attacks...LF is the same thing with a slightly different deployment method...
generally anything with a radius or blast area is an aoe...and i wouldn't call multi or teeth aoe...that would be more of a wave attack, granted nova's would fit into both categories since they do roughly the same thing just in a radius instead of a forward arc...aoes are square or circular...and either hit a target location or eminate from the caster/attacker...and are either a single blast or a series of attacks with in the target area...
. That's what it is though. you can try to make up as many new items as you want, but generally aoe that emminates from the caster is PBAOE...
I refuse. Point Blank implies a small range. Diablo isn't a MMO yeh bastard. Stop trying to infect it with nonsensical terms!
I refuse. Point Blank implies a small range. Diablo isn't a MMO yeh bastard. Stop trying to infect it with nonsensical terms!
These terms are older than mmo games.
AoE and Splash damage came from WC2 iirc.
The point is if it hits multiple targets it is some type of aoe, even if it's just the 2 enemies right in front of you.
AOE is a spell that technically targets an area, like Blizzard or Meteor, Fireball is Projectile Area of Effect Damage, Chain Lightning is Multi-adjacent Target Projectile, Lightning is Line of Sight Aoe, Charged Bolt is Cone Area of Effect... if you want to get technical.
However the term AoE is loosely used for attacks that hit more than one target. It's been around since the first Dungeon Master scribbled down his Mage's Fire Ball spell on his Character Card. It's something that MMO developers adapted to their games... Don't take offense at a few "nonsensical terms" here and there. There's still Google if you don't understand them. It works all the time for me when I type, What does _ _ _ _ _ mean?
I never complained about terms such as AoE. I complained about "Point Blank." It's physically annoying to watch a skill that has probably 4 times the AoE of a Blizzard (hitting the whole screen) being called "Point Blank" because of some MMO convention.
Arbedark
22-07-2008, 11:42
I never complained about terms such as AoE. I complained about "Point Blank." It's physically annoying to watch a skill that has probably 4 times the AoE of a Blizzard (hitting the whole screen) being called "Point Blank" because of some MMO convention.
PBAoE originally meant Player Based Area of Effect, but at some time or another it changed to the non-sensical Point Blank, even though Player Based is a much more accurate description of most skills called PBAoE's...
Arbedark redeemed PBAoE. All praise Arbedark!
Arbedark
22-07-2008, 17:04
Arbedark redeemed PBAoE. All praise Arbedark!
Your worship has been noted.
You shall be spared come Armageddon...:whistling:
vBulletin® v3.8.4, Copyright ©2000-2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.