Different end game ideas

[stillman]

Boss grinding in d2 = boring.

Here is an idea to help keep d3 fun for the longest possible time. What if, instead of killing bosses all day, we were rewarded with better exp from cleaning out areas of regular mosnters? The idea comes from the den of evil, but your reward should be a sudden exp gain after you completely clean out any whole area. So for end game optimal exp, you would start at act 1, and kill everything in the whole game, gaining a exp chunk for killing the last monster in each area. Bosses would be skipped for time saving purposes, but you could still kill them for item farming or w/e. So you kill everything in the cold plains, and you get an exp reward. Then it's on to the stoney field. And so on. Bosses give you petty exp, but good drops.

Basically, the idea is you get more exp from killing regular monsters than killing the same end boss 1000 times over. Think of how long it would take to get bored of killing all the monsters in the whole game compared to seeing the same boss over and over.

[Matora]

Howsabout after the final boss hath been slayed, waves of enemies swarm the area until death or a town portal is cast. Nothing tougher than the last boss but maybe four or five a bit softer, then 6 about the same and so on. But maybe on the last difficulty only.

[5zigen]

Just have 'special' areas that are competitive PVE (Ranked)

Ideas that I posted in the wish list forum:

Time attack mode for a specific type of zone, kill all the monsters in the shortest amount of time. Player (or team) that clear the area fastest could be ranked.

Another type of time attack would have an unlimited amount of enemies and you have to kill as many as possible within a time limit. Player (or team) that kills the most enemies in a time limit would be ranked.

Another would be ala Enfo's team defense, where you (and possibly friends) have to kill wave after wave of enemies until you exit or die. The ranks would be based on the survival length of the team (or individual player)

A boss rush mode, kill boss after boss in a timed mode, basically like boss rush out of any contemporary game (presumably bosses in this mode wouldn't drop anything) and the fastest people through could get ranked (or perhaps after killing all the bosses you get a random drop (1 item) with its quality based on how fast you kill them all)

There's so much they could do that would be fun.

[Swiffer]

D1 style dungeon that gets harder and harder and has no end. Ranked by how far down you get.

[5zigen]

D1 style dungeon that gets harder and harder and has no end. Ranked by how far down you get.

That's a good one too, they could even add loot to it, and a boss at the end of each level that gets harder and harder also.

[Apocalypse]

you could always make another character and play the game through again? or if you really enjoy the class you are using then make that class again with a different set of skills and see how you do with them. this was the best part of d2, they started with 5 classes but you could easily come up with 3 different verisons of each, which is why i really hated only 8 characters per account.

[Putz]

Just have 'special' areas that are competitive PVE (Ranked)

Ideas that I posted in the wish list forum:

Time attack mode for a specific type of zone, kill all the monsters in the shortest amount of time. Player (or team) that clear the area fastest could be ranked.

Another type of time attack would have an unlimited amount of enemies and you have to kill as many as possible within a time limit. Player (or team) that kills the most enemies in a time limit would be ranked.

Another would be ala Enfo's team defense, where you (and possibly friends) have to kill wave after wave of enemies until you exit or die. The ranks would be based on the survival length of the team (or individual player)

A boss rush mode, kill boss after boss in a timed mode, basically like boss rush out of any contemporary game (presumably bosses in this mode wouldn't drop anything) and the fastest people through could get ranked (or perhaps after killing all the bosses you get a random drop (1 item) with its quality based on how fast you kill them all)

There's so much they could do that would be fun.

This is not WoW, this is not a fps, arcade etc Stay away from time attack and stick to objective based "questing."

[JBMillertime]

From all I've read, they seem to really be pushing these randomly generated "adventures." I'd really like to see the end game become players searching around for randomly generated quests with randomly generated rewards appropriate for the difficulty of the quest and the levels of the players involved. That sounds to me like it would rarely get stale (assuming their random adventure engine thing is as good as they make it out to be). This with the obvious option of being able to do boss runs sounds good to me!

[TopHatCat64]

Another would be ala Enfo's team defense, where you (and possibly friends) have to kill wave after wave of enemies until you exit or die. The ranks would be based on the survival length of the team (or individual player)


I wouldn't really care about my rank (I play single player, afterall) but this sounds really fun. I like the idea of being under siege and having to hold an area.

[JBMillertime]

I think a lot of these ideas could be worked into these randomly generated quests. Having to fight waves and waves of monsters (capped at number of waves or time duration? - could be protecting a city under siege), the time attack mode (kill all these monsters in the cave and get out before it collapses - some limitation on teleport-like skills - maybe multiple gates that won't unlock unless all monsters in the area are killed), Kill as many as you can in a time limit (some sort of quest for a hunter type NPC), etc. They could (nearly) all be worked into quests I think. Should I shut up about quests yet? :-P

*Edit* was thinking some more. You could either have people have to search the world of Diablo to find these randomly generated quests, or (if that becomes too much of an annoyance for people, and knowing D2 players that want the quickest way to good rewards, it would be) have a handful of npc's in towns that kick-off the quests and tell you the general area to look to start the quest. I wouldn't want the town npc's to be involved directly in the quest because in-town NPCs probably wouldn't be randomly generated so it might be a little suspect if these NPCs are *always* getting into trouble. However, it could be along the lines of certain NPCs that hear gossip or rumors and simply tell you "I hear so-and-so is having trouble with monster X in area Y" or something along those lines. Guess it depends how much exploration you want players to undergo. Actually, a mixture would be pretty cool...

[5zigen]

This is not WoW, this is not a fps, arcade etc Stay away from time attack and stick to objective based "questing."

Oh i guess I forgot how much fun Kill X of Y monster and return to Z place, and Take this passage from me to X city was in endgame...

and just so you know, wow has nothing like any of the ideas I suggested, neither do any fps' I can think of.


The problem with incorporating these ideas into "quests" is that in general a quest has an end. The idea here is to provide something that DOESN'T have an end, and just keeps scaling harder and harder to be an actual test for how strong your character is.

[JBMillertime]

5zigen, I get ya. Though with randomly generated quests, they would never end in the sense that there would always be more available. And with the ability to scale in difficulty both on player level and number of players involved (perhaps with a little randomness thrown in) they'd hopefully be able to always provide a challenge. Also, you could have quests chains (no groaning from wow players please) where the quests get continuously more difficult - I think this could provide a similar effect to what you describe. The problem with continuously increasing un-ending challenges is that I'm having trouble thinking of a way to tie them in with the story and the lore. Can't really imagine someone telling you, "go to this dungeon and kill as many monsters as you can until you die! ... Why aren't you more excited...?" Though one way I could see it tying in is if one town had some sort of arena, where you sign up to find endless waves of monsters until you're defeated. That could kind of work in a role-playing sense... Of course Blizzard could just choose to abandon any attempt at story explanation for these sorts of gameplay modes, which would be fine and would be equally fun. I just thought it might be a little more interesting if they could be tied into the story (even if a randomly generated story) a little more.

[5zigen]

5zigen, I get ya. Though with randomly generated quests, they would never end in the sense that there would always be more available. And with the ability to scale in difficulty both on player level and number of players involved (perhaps with a little randomness thrown in) they'd hopefully be able to always provide a challenge. Also, you could have quests chains (no groaning from wow players please) where the quests get continuously more difficult - I think this could provide a similar effect to what you describe. The problem with continuously increasing un-ending challenges is that I'm having trouble thinking of a way to tie them in with the story and the lore. Can't really imagine someone telling you, "go to this dungeon and kill as many monsters as you can until you die! ... Why aren't you more excited...?"

I don't think it has to be tied to the story very much. Perhaps it only appears as an option after you beat the game normally.

The idea that there would be an unending number of quests is neat and all but it doesn't really test your character, which is something I think people naturally want, as one of the reasons to continue playing is to make your character stronger, or to make a stronger character.
It makes equally little sense to kill diablo 15,000 times. Perhaps even less sense, but no one complained about that lack of consistency there.

[Putz]

Oh i guess I forgot how much fun Kill X of Y monster and return to Z place, and Take this passage from me to X city was in endgame...

and just so you know, wow has nothing like any of the ideas I suggested, neither do any fps' I can think of.


The problem with incorporating these ideas into "quests" is that in general a quest has an end. The idea here is to provide something that DOESN'T have an end, and just keeps scaling harder and harder to be an actual test for how strong your character is.

Uhh, WoW has quite a bit of "time attack" quest. So yeah...

[JBMillertime]

5zigen, I get ya. Though with randomly generated quests, they would never end in the sense that there would always be more available. And with the ability to scale in difficulty both on player level and number of players involved (perhaps with a little randomness thrown in) they'd hopefully be able to always provide a challenge. Also, you could have quests chains (no groaning from wow players please) where the quests get continuously more difficult - I think this could provide a similar effect to what you describe. The problem with continuously increasing un-ending challenges is that I'm having trouble thinking of a way to tie them in with the story and the lore. Can't really imagine someone telling you, "go to this dungeon and kill as many monsters as you can until you die! ... Why aren't you more excited...?" Though one way I could see it tying in is if one town had some sort of arena, where you sign up to find endless waves of monsters until you're defeated. That could kind of work in a role-playing sense... Of course Blizzard could just choose to abandon any attempt at story explanation for these sorts of gameplay modes, which would be fine and would be equally fun. I just thought it might be a little more interesting if they could be tied into the story (even if a randomly generated story) a little more.

Perhaps our ideas could be used to serve different purposes then. Yours as a way to test your character and provide continual challenge for players. Mine as a way of providing a more interesting and dynamic way of growing your characters (both in items and exp) after reaching the "end game". I think both would serve D3 well :)

[imjustsomeguy]

Another would be ala Enfo's team defense, where you (and possibly friends) have to kill wave after wave of enemies until you exit or die. The ranks would be based on the survival length of the team (or individual player)

Not sure what Enfo's team defence is but if it's anything like castle defence maps in Warcraft 3 I would be all for it. Having to defend a small town from 20 waves of demons would be great. There could be 4 walls with an entrance for a player to defend. So 1 player per opening with additional players (depending on player cap) bouncing around helping out the weak spots. When the demons leak through they would run to the center and start killing Cain or whatever it is you're trying to protect. Demon kill would give gold which would be used to purchase mercs, potions, elixirs, special items.

I've seen DOTA (WC3) mentioned on these forums before. If that could be made to work in the D3 world I think it would dominate the end game. There doesn't have to be any loot or rewards, it just fun as hell and a great time killer.

[5zigen]

I've seen DOTA (WC3) mentioned on these forums before. If that could be made to work in the D3 world I think it would dominate the end game. There doesn't have to be any loot or rewards, it just fun as hell and a great time killer.

I just dont think it makes sense to have DOTA in D3 because it just wouldnt fit story wise or balance wise. It's just that D3 isn't so much of a group pvp game.

I like the DoTA game though.

[Deuterium]

Having never played WoW (and never intending on) I have to say they seem to have got something right. Obviously the Diablo and Warcraft universes are entirely disimilar, and thus many conventions/particulars that work for one are unlikely to transfer to the other, but from what I've heard level 70 is something that people strive to achieve not just for the sake of it but because it is actually enjoyable.

I don't know the details but I think it relates to raiding or new areas/items? In any case I often lost interest in the Diablo 2 endgame. Why? Because you get to a point where you question the purpose. Right I have my ideal gear, now what? Now grind the same bosses you've been grinding (it is grinding not 'running' or any other romanticised notion) for what? To get more gear to grind more... etc. It just got stale and deterministic. Which was sad.

Yeah there is some replayability in creating new characters but when the outcome is the same - see what I'm getting at? Much of Diablo's appeal is the journey itself which I respect, but what is a journey without a satisfactory destination? I hope Blizzard blow us away with something revolutionary.

[sicilian]

Ok, how about this for a fun end game test of your character's strengh:

A random town sends a messenger to you while you're playing, saying the last remaining forces of Diablo have rallied for one last push to avenge their fallen lord. You go back to that town and have to defend it from wave after wave of constant enemies.

There will be several weak mercenaries with you, and if you die you can still rejoin the fight, but every enemy that slips past starts ransacking the town. Once the town has taken enough hits, the trial is over. The goal is to hold out as long as you can.

There could be two reward systems for this. One is a tangible one, like if you can defend the town for 2 minutes you get a regular item. 5 minutes you get a magic item, 10 a rare, 30 a unique, and a full hour you get something amazing. Other than that, your best times would be posted on a leaderboard somewhere.

Or there could be a cap, and it will display on your character somehow how many towns you've successfully defended.

[5zigen]

Ok, how about this for a fun end game test of your character's strengh:

A random town sends a messenger to you while you're playing, saying the last remaining forces of Diablo have rallied for one last push to avenge their fallen lord. You go back to that town and have to defend it from wave after wave of constant enemies.

There will be several weak mercenaries with you, and if you die you can still rejoin the fight, but every enemy that slips past starts ransacking the town. Once the town has taken enough hits, the trial is over. The goal is to hold out as long as you can.

There could be two reward systems for this. One is a tangible one, like if you can defend the town for 2 minutes you get a regular item. 5 minutes you get a magic item, 10 a rare, 30 a unique, and a full hour you get something amazing. Other than that, your best times would be posted on a leaderboard somewhere.

Or there could be a cap, and it will display on your character somehow how many towns you've successfully defended.

I dunno, I think it sounds alright but saying "successfully defended" sort of implys that you can win, which in the end wouldnt really be a test of a characters prowess. Unless you worked it this way, where every time you defend a city a portal opens to another city that you have to take to defend another one, and that's how the difficulty scales infinitely.

If the scaling isn't limitless, then there is no real test of a characters prowess and it really doesnt encourage innovation in play or character builds. People will most likely adopt the first build that is known to be able to complete it and that's it.

If the scaling of the difficulty goes on endlessly, then people will keep trying new builds to beat each other on the leaderboards, which will lead to more innovation in play techniques and character builds, and it will really add limitless replayability, much the same way that lumines or tetris has great replayability, because you will be constantly trying to beat your and other peoples score.

[sicilian]

I dunno, I think it sounds alright but saying "successfully defended" sort of implys that you can win, which in the end wouldnt really be a test of a characters prowess. Unless you worked it this way, where every time you defend a city a portal opens to another city that you have to take to defend another one, and that's how the difficulty scales infinitely.

If the scaling isn't limitless, then there is no real test of a characters prowess and it really doesnt encourage innovation in play or character builds. People will most likely adopt the first build that is known to be able to complete it and that's it.

If the scaling of the difficulty goes on endlessly, then people will keep trying new builds to beat each other on the leaderboards, which will lead to more innovation in play techniques and character builds, and it will really add limitless replayability, much the same way that lumines or tetris has great replayability, because you will be constantly trying to beat your and other peoples score.

But see, the idea of something that goes on endlessly without an accomplishment sounds very MMO to me... one of the things that turned me off to WoW was that I felt I could never "complete" it, it was just too open ended.

I want things I can work towards, and eventually finish, like the Diablo Clone and Uber Tristram. If all i can do is try to have the best score, then only one person can really feel a sense of completion in D3's end game.

[imjustsomeguy]

I just dont think it makes sense to have DOTA in D3 because it just wouldnt fit story wise or balance wise. It's just that D3 isn't so much of a group pvp game.

I like the DoTA game though.

Perhaps not but the fun factor would outweigh any negatives, for me anyways. Diablo on bnet is crack, DOTA is heroin, put them together and you have one hell of an addicting game experience.

What I would really like to see is the ability for custom maps in D3 on bnet. I remember hearing this has been ruled out though.

[MooCQ]

Boss grinding in d2 = boring.

Here is an idea to help keep d3 fun for the longest possible time. What if, instead of killing bosses all day, we were rewarded with better exp from cleaning out areas of regular mosnters? The idea comes from the den of evil, but your reward should be a sudden exp gain after you completely clean out any whole area. So for end game optimal exp, you would start at act 1, and kill everything in the whole game, gaining a exp chunk for killing the last monster in each area. Bosses would be skipped for time saving purposes, but you could still kill them for item farming or w/e. So you kill everything in the cold plains, and you get an exp reward. Then it's on to the stoney field. And so on. Bosses give you petty exp, but good drops.


Well, for one; I DON'T HAVE ALL DAY! so basically.. no, no .. and more NO!!!!

[stillman]

5zigen, I'm not sure what you mean by ranks. I think there would have to be more to the reward system than bragging rights or a cosmetic list (though a list would still be nice compared to boss runs with no list). The actual ladder is different; it's very rewarding because more levels translates into more skill/stat points and therefore more killing power. I figgure a board showing ranks of the best end game palyers would kind of be like dueling (i.e. no real reward other than bragging rights). What if players or teams could ante up and put in a mid rune each (or other prize) and whoever kills more monsters or has best time, etc, wins the pot?

I like your "wave after wave" idea though, or anything that goes on forever hence pushing your chr back at some point. Players could strive (and would break records) on bnet forever, potentially. To avoid conflicts with the current story or having an important town destroyed, they could simply send us to some far away region.

Sicilian, one of the problems with being able to "complete" everything is that it may eventually leave us with nothing to do, and worse, we see "Baalrape" games which I think is a bit sad. I think the true sense of completeness you seek should come from beating the end boss and Cain hobbles over to tell you what a hero you are. But after that, I think it'd be nice for Blizzard to have something that we can never beat. After all, many find the administrative stuff (like making new game, finding wirt's leg, or tele to baal, repeat) too tedius and unproductive. Expert gamers could make an endless end-game challenge last for much longer (hopefully without getting bored).

If Blizzard learned anything, they'll at least make the end game situations take much more than 5 minutes so we should be prepared to stay in games for a long while.

And MooCQ, you say you don't have all day, but we're talking about end game details. All you really have to do is beat baal-equivalent; you won't need to participate in the fun ad-ons. I take it you don't have all day for grinding baal either, and I'll bet you'd have more fun killing something besides one boss to improve your chr.

[chenghao]

i don't mind the return of the diablo clone idea where the toughest boss is randomly triggered

[chenghao]

on the other hand , seasonal events might be interesting *santa joining your party during xmas day* , with Rudolf as a mount :scratchchin:

or the monsters can be extra powerful during halloween :crazyeyes:

[stillman]

It would have to happen an aweful lot though. Also, it takes us back to targeting just one big guy over and over again...

[JunkStory]

Boss grinding in d2 = boring.

Here is an idea to help keep d3 fun for the longest possible time. What if, instead of killing bosses all day, we were rewarded with better exp from cleaning out areas of regular mosnters? The idea comes from the den of evil, but your reward should be a sudden exp gain after you completely clean out any whole area. So for end game optimal exp, you would start at act 1, and kill everything in the whole game, gaining a exp chunk for killing the last monster in each area. Bosses would be skipped for time saving purposes, but you could still kill them for item farming or w/e. So you kill everything in the cold plains, and you get an exp reward. Then it's on to the stoney field. And so on. Bosses give you petty exp, but good drops.

Basically, the idea is you get more exp from killing regular monsters than killing the same end boss 1000 times over. Think of how long it would take to get bored of killing all the monsters in the whole game compared to seeing the same boss over and over.

that sounds like a good idea to me

and if a new player joins the game, s/he will only get a fraction of the total exp bonus since s/he is a newcomer.

I also love the idea of surviving endless waves of monsters

In fact, anything is better than doing the same runs (cow runs, baal runs, etc)

[slickr]

Boss grinding in d2 = boring.

Here is an idea to help keep d3 fun for the longest possible time. What if, instead of killing bosses all day, we were rewarded with better exp from cleaning out areas of regular mosnters? The idea comes from the den of evil, but your reward should be a sudden exp gain after you completely clean out any whole area. So for end game optimal exp, you would start at act 1, and kill everything in the whole game, gaining a exp chunk for killing the last monster in each area. Bosses would be skipped for time saving purposes, but you could still kill them for item farming or w/e. So you kill everything in the cold plains, and you get an exp reward. Then it's on to the stoney field. And so on. Bosses give you petty exp, but good drops.

Basically, the idea is you get more exp from killing regular monsters than killing the same end boss 1000 times over. Think of how long it would take to get bored of killing all the monsters in the whole game compared to seeing the same boss over and over.

No that would make it way too boring if you ask me.
+weren't monsters randomly generated?
How can you clean a whole area if they are random generated?

That would work in D2 since monsters only respawned after you save/exit.
In D3 I think it will work in game, as soon as you get quite further than the area you killed those monsters it will be randomly generated with new monsters!

So I'm afraid not only is your idea boring, but its not viable since the way D3 works!

[stillman]

But the idea would remove the very boring administrative parts of remaking games, finding wirt's leg, teleing to the boss, standing in town waiting for host to tele, that sort of thing.

[Sein Schatten]

No that would make it way too boring if you ask me.
+weren't monsters randomly generated?


D2 was really bad here. AFAIK, only Hell Act 5 has random monsters. And the way it is done really sucks, imo. In D1 you have X mob types for map Y. But X are always monster types from hell (or whatever act you are in). In D2 you have monsters from all acts. That really destroys the feeling of act 5 for me. Instead of choosing monster types from all acts I prefer only from act 5 with a few from other acts.

[imjustsomeguy]

I posted this in another thread but I'll put it here as well:

"Another quick thought on cutting down on the repetitive boss runs...Add in something like Uber Trist that could be completed each game.

There could be a repeatable quest that is possible to complete in every new game created. An NPC in each act will give you a random location to clear (with 5 or more different areas in each act they can choose from). So if there are 4 acts in the game that would give 20+ different non boss areas to clear on a regular basis.

While clearing each area the player would find a quest item. Once all quest items from each act are collected then off you go to some hellish place with a reward that fits the amount of time it would take to get through the whole process (probably on par with boss loot to make it a valid alternative)."

[stillman]

I like it.

[phool]

I am all for ranked, competitive pvm endgame such as Szigen describes (see GW:Factions' ranked coop missions), but would be very wary of adding signifcent non cosmetic, non-exclusive rewards - there is a major risk of turning game mode X into the new Mephisto run. An exclusive reward such as a torch is far better in this sense, creating a viable alternative style of building wealth like adding ubertrist did, the value of which will stabilise based on difficulty and time, on the other hand items like anni and torch are too powerful not to have and there is no reason not to have them, at which point they add nothing to the game and make balance more difficult. A number of mutually exclusive anni equivalents with very different stats (like TQ's 'charms') on the other hand would be good.

HF rushing is an alternative to boss farming that I really hope Blizz will keep in some form or another for D3, as well as continuing the mentality that led to their turning many optional areas throughout hell into viable mf/xping alvl 85s.

I'd also like to see cosmetic account-wide titles/accomplishments that players earn by playing the game in ways they may not usually do. I.e. don't add a 'reach level 90' badge and a seperate 'kill 100k enemies' badge, but rather something along the lines of a 'reach level 90' and a 'complete game naked' badge.

Something else I'd like to see is repeatable quests, particularly class specific repeatables, perhaps with a drop bias (e.g. sorc repeatable drops lots of gems, barb repeatable a high drop chance of runes, etc) - a toned down version of area exclusive drops basically. This encourages making more chars (rather than just a blizz sorc and enidin) and provides another mfing endgame alternative.

D2 was really bad here. AFAIK, only Hell Act 5 has random monsters. And the way it is done really sucks, imo. In D1 you have X mob types for map Y. But X are always monster types from hell (or whatever act you are in). In D2 you have monsters from all acts. That really destroys the feeling of act 5 for me. Instead of choosing monster types from all acts I prefer only from act 5 with a few from other acts.

Loads of areas had random monsters, in the sense that one time you might get slingers and maggots and another you might get yetis and scarabs, A5 was no different except it drew on a larger pool. That's fine imo, though occasional guest SUs that can pop up anywhere might be fun I think A5 went a bit far.

[Sein Schatten]

Loads of areas had random monsters, in the sense that one time you might get slingers and maggots and another you might get yetis and scarabs, A5 was no different except it drew on a larger pool. That's fine imo, though occasional guest SUs that can pop up anywhere might be fun I think A5 went a bit far.

Really? Then I must've forgotten it. I only know Act 5 and Act 4 river of flame. :scratchchin:
Yep, Act 5 just went too far. That was not fun anymore. For example flayers in the world stone tower or that nilathak dungeon are just out of place. I hope D3 has a better monster placement. D1 was pretty cool in that regards.

[Zeek]

There are lots of good ideas here, but I don't think any of them will make the end game any more fun after playing through them 1000s of times. Even "randomly generated quests" will still involve monsters we've fought thousands of times and it will get boring.

Before baal runs there were bloody foothill runs before those there were cow runs. It doesn't matter that we're killing a boss all the time right now to gain exp. The boredom comes from doing it over and over. Bloody foothill runs got very boring after a while. Just like cow runs got boring as heck and you never wanted to hear "moo moo MOO!" again.

The only way to really keep them interesting is with new content. A new monster type or the ubers or whatever. Other than that we will get bored eventually.

[5zigen]

The only way to really keep them interesting is with new content. A new monster type or the ubers or whatever. Other than that we will get bored eventually.

I disagree. The reason it was boring is because you were only doing bloody foothills runs for one reason, to get and leech experience. Same with baal, With mephisto it was just about the items. None of these had any sense of accomplishment like "I just did something new" other than the first time you beat them.

Beating a personal record imo is very satisfying, and I think a lot of people like that type of gameplay. Being able to compete with everyone on a personal record is even more satisfying.

There's no possibility for improvement in meph runs, baal runs or cow runs. At least not measurable improvement.

[Sein Schatten]

I disagree. The reason it was boring is because you were only doing bloody foothills runs for one reason, to get and leech experience. Same with baal, With mephisto it was just about the items. None of these had any sense of accomplishment like "I just did something new" other than the first time you beat them.

Beating a personal record imo is very satisfying, and I think a lot of people like that type of gameplay. Being able to compete with everyone on a personal record is even more satisfying.

There's no possibility for improvement in meph runs, baal runs or cow runs. At least not measurable improvement.

Instead of farming just one area, make it possible that several activities are equal.
So make not only foothills excellent for exp, make several areas equally good.
:)

[Kijya]

I say do let the bosses carry the most XP/best MF, but let most of them "move around". Instead of being at the bottom most level of a dungeon everyone knows, let the boss move around in that dungeon. Imagine being surprised by andariel in catacombs level 1 :scratchchin:

Another thing I'd love to see implemented is moving packs that "patrol" dungeons (aka no afking while you've cleared an area, some demon might come strolling in on you) ...

I'd love hearing some demon in such a patrol shout orders to attack me and then fall himself back to get backup ... and really be getting some backup.

[Zeek]

I disagree. The reason it was boring is because you were only doing bloody foothills runs for one reason, to get and leech experience. Same with baal, With mephisto it was just about the items. None of these had any sense of accomplishment like "I just did something new" other than the first time you beat them.

Beating a personal record imo is very satisfying, and I think a lot of people like that type of gameplay. Being able to compete with everyone on a personal record is even more satisfying.

There's no possibility for improvement in meph runs, baal runs or cow runs. At least not measurable improvement.
I disagree with that. I think that trying to set some sort of record would be even more boring. Most of the time there is a cookie cutter strategy that will lead to being the fastest killer in an area. That will only lead to thousands of lightning fury zon's topping the charts or whatever. That's far from entertaining gameplay.

If it was something like a survival test where you have to keep killing packs of monsters or bosses that increase in difficulty then it will get really boring to repeat the early bosses that you know you're going to beat over and over just to try to get to one more pack or boss by the end.

The thing that keeps Diablo exciting to me is that there are lots of viable builds and the quest to find the "perfect" item for those builds can be really fun.

[5zigen]

I disagree with that. I think that trying to set some sort of record would be even more boring. Most of the time there is a cookie cutter strategy that will lead to being the fastest killer in an area. That will only lead to thousands of lightning fury zon's topping the charts or whatever. That's far from entertaining gameplay.

If it was something like a survival test where you have to keep killing packs of monsters or bosses that increase in difficulty then it will get really boring to repeat the early bosses that you know you're going to beat over and over just to try to get to one more pack or boss by the end.

The thing that keeps Diablo exciting to me is that there are lots of viable builds and the quest to find the "perfect" item for those builds can be really fun.

Uhm, if there's constantly room for improvement, it will at least encourage people to try other things, unlike D2 where there is clearly 1 or 2 dominant builds (SF / ORB, Nova / ORB, MeteOrb, depending on patch, Or hammerdin or whatever).

If there's no ongoing content then there's no incentive for people to make anything other than what's considered the current 'best' build. If they're always trying to beat their own or a previous record, there will be an incentive for innovation.

Plus it could also be ranked by class just like the D2 ladder, for example.

I'm not talking about removing the quest for the 'perfect' item for your build, I think that would be an integral part of the game, I'm just talking about giving people something to do with their character once they've found it, and to actually have a way to gauge how much better their character is after replacing a specific piece.

[vendrox]

you could always make another character and play the game through again? or if you really enjoy the class you are using then make that class again with a different set of skills and see how you do with them. this was the best part of d2, they started with 5 classes but you could easily come up with 3 different verisons of each, which is why i really hated only 8 characters per account.

We might enjoy a specific char with a specific build. No reason why we would HAVE TO reroll after the game is done.