Witchwild String Sockets etc

[Bettan]

Hi there, I'm new to this forum, and I've just returned to the wonderfull world of Diablo II after a 5-6 year break. Needless to say, I don't remeber jack.

The reason for this thread is simple, I want some advice on how to Socket my Witchwild String Bow, and if I should socket it b4 upgrading it to it's "elite" form, or will that somehow keep me from upgrading it? Does the sockets dissepear when I upgrade it? or do they stay?. I was thinking about Mana/Life Leech sockets, but as I said, I don't really have a clue.

That was alot of questions, any advice is most welcome.

Regards // Bettan

[NASE]

Hi Bettan, good to see you hope, hope you enjoy your stay here.

what to put in your wws has changed in the past couple of months, so it was a smart idea not to go and search for answers. Previously, people would often put 2 sheals in there in order to hit the /2 strafe breakpoint. Recently, someone proved that /2 doesn't exists serverwise so the need for ias is much less if you go with strafe.
Lest have a look at the possibilities.

2*sheal: wws is mostly a strafe bow. If you plan on using your wws as a pure strafe bow, 2*sheal is useless. There are much better option - on the other hand, if you plan on using multishot often, 2*sheal is the best option.
2*15 ias jewel. Only interesting if you have on with good mods. And even then, the same argument as 2*sheal can be made while your jewels will be worth much more.
NOTE: check the stickies to find out what breakpoint you are aiming for, it's useless to put sheals in your bow and them find out that you in-between two breakpoints.

Other popular options:
nef: knockback is important, usefull and very fun. Getting this on your bow allows you to use laying of hands as gloves, and something else then giant skull as helm.
amn: lifeleech is a savour. If you only have enough lifeleech, almost notting can kill you. I'd say this is one of the most important mod for a strafeazon.
skull: dualeech bows rock - and this is the only way to get cheap manaleech. Consider using amn/skull if you go the leech way.
eth: gives a huge chance to hit boost. Very usefull though there are many other means to get your cth up - enchant from demon limb or from lava gount and even penetrate is an option as you may have many points to spare.

expensive option - just to be complete.
jewel with huge +min damage. If you get enough +min damage, with an opgraded wws, you can get your minimum damage higher then your maximum damage. This makes every extra damage point count for two. Problem is that these can go for some hr.
Almost all hr - safe for zod - have use. Problem is that you don't really want to waste a hr in a wws and that you don't really need any of the effects - though I'd say there are some pretty crazy mods.


You can sockets you wws wheneven you please, upgrading will keep your sockets intact. I'd gor for amn/nef and use a Manald Heal for manaleech untill you find a dualleech ring.

[Bettan]

Ah, thx alot NASE, you covered everything I wanted to know, much apriciated.

[fartAttack]

what to put in your wws has changed in the past couple of months, so it was a smart idea not to go and search for answers. Previously, people would often put 2 sheals in there in order to hit the /2 strafe breakpoint. Recently, someone proved that /2 doesn't exists serverwise so the need for ias is much less if you go with strafe.
Lest have a look at the possibilities.

when did this come about? i'd like to read more about this, specifically how it was done. was it here or somewhere else someone did it, and where can i find more info?

[NASE]

It was found on amazonbasin thought there has been a thread and link about all the information you need.
Blame dacar - though do it nicely - if you can't find the thread. It should be in stickies by now.

[KremBanan]

Socketing the WWS 2.0 (http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/showthread.php?t=397763)

[phor]

This question is along the same line, so I'll post it here instead of starting a new topic.

I've come back to play some single player after seeing D3 announcements also.
I have tons of items/runes from old single player MF characters, so I'm not concerned about trading high level runes for a better weapon, etc...

I played LF/CS/FA up until 73 when I started hell, and then found a WWS.
Since I've been having some trouble with mana issues using FA against lightning immunes (since my AR is dismal so the physical portion almost never hits), I've decided to try out the strafe build.

Do you think ohm is a better rune for the WWS than sur, cham, nef, or even jah (don't actually have a jah, but would it be a good idea to put one in a single player WWS)?

[sevencreature]

when did this come about? i'd like to read more about this, specifically how it was done. was it here or somewhere else someone did it, and where can i find more info?
Yup, at AmazonBasin.

Basically so far regarding Strafe it seems that:

1) Strafe breakpoints showed around here seems to be wrong

This is wrong:

13/3 - 0% IAS
12/3 - 9% IAS
11/3 - 20% IAS
10/3 - 37% IAS
9/3 - 63% IAS
9/2 - 86% IAS
8/2 - 105% IAS
7/2 - 200% IAS
The problem here is that the first number is actually just the frames needed to do a normal attack - so basically the IAS here tells you how to improve normal attack speed, not Strafe.

Correct Strafe breakpoints (client-wise):
13/3 - 0% IAS
12/3 - 13% IAS
11/3 - 26% IAS
10/3 - 29% IAS
9/3 - 56% IAS
9/2 - 86% IAS
8/2 - 113% IAS

The first number is the number of frames needed to shoot the first arrow plus the number of frames needed to finish up the strafe animation. Because of how the animation process works, this is not the same as the number of frames needed to do a normal attack.

2) 2 frame Strafe does not exists

I've focused my testing on finding the server-side speed breakpoints for the rapid-fire Strafe arrows. Brian focuses on finding the server-side timings for the entire Strafe cycle. However, the latter is not practically relevant even if they differ from the client timings. That's because server-side Strafe is interruptible by a new client command. Even if the server is running (say) 10/3 Strafe, and your client is displaying 9/3 Strafe, there won't be any behavior difference. When your client finishes the 9/3 Strafe and sends a command for another one, the server will interrupt the last frame of its 10/3 Strafe to start a new Strafe. So the net effect is as if the server is following the client-side breakpoints anyway for each full Strafe cycles.

In short, for the rapid-fire breakpoints the server timing takes precedence*, while for the full-cycle breakpoints the client timing takes precedence, so we can use the known full-cycle breakpoints.

(*Actually, the slower of the two takes precedence, but that's always the server except for the case of very slow crossbows with negative EIAS. Even though the server is launching at 5 fpa, you can't take advantage of that because the client is animating at 6 fpa. The client won't send another command until it thinks its done with the 6 fpa animation, so the practical speed is indeed 6 fpa. This isn't really relevant since nobody ever actually equips a crossbow slow enough for x/6 strafe without IAS. )

With this explained, we can answer Tromboner's query (Are you guys going to have some type of summary for us lay people? I would appreciate that.):

For bows, the known breakpoints are practically correct up to 8/3, but anything faster is an illusion. If you equip gear for an apparent 8/2 or 7/2 Strafe, you will:
- if you hold down Strafe, actually fire only 8 arrows per cycle instead of 10.*
- if you click and release Strafe, incur up to 9 extra frames of strafelock while the server finishes the strafe cycle.

For crossbows, use the known breakpoints for x/5 and x/4, but avoid the breakpoints for x/4.5, x/3.5, and 11/3, since these don't exist server-side and are also illusionary. At the illusionary speeds, the same behavior occurs:
- if you hold down Strafe, you actually fire fewer arrows than it appears.
- if you click and release Strafe, you incur extra frames of strafelock.

*Edit: I confirmed this behavior with one more test. I set Strafe back to its usual behavior of 10 arrows. When I clicked for one Strafe at a time, I got 10 spirit wolves spawned each time. When I held down Strafe for multiple cycles, I got 8 wolves per Strafe cycle (verified by checking arrow consumption) except for 10 wolves for the last Strafe cycle.

I set breakpoints on those functions:
D2Game.6FCAE410 (the server missile spawn function)
D2Client.6FB459B0 (client missile spawn)
D2Client.6FB66510 (draw life ball, which is called once per frame, so basically providing a frame clock.)

I equipped the amazon with a supposed 7/2 Strafe gear rig. I modded monstats.txt for zombies to be immovable, so there are no targeting problems. I found a zombie, and fired one Strafe. Here is the sequence of breakpoints that were triggered:

Server missile (begin Strafe, now I enabled the draw-life-ball bp)
Frame
Client missile (here's your initial 1-frame delay)
Frame
Frame
Server missile (3 frames after the last server missile)
Client missile (2 frames after the last client missile!)
Frame
Frame
Client missile (bug! server hasn't fired missile #3 yet!)
Frame
Server missile (#3)
Frame
Client missile (#4)
Frame
Frame
Server missile (#4)
Client missile (#5 - now the client is an entire missile ahead of the server. Ghost missile.)
Frame
Frame
Client missile (#6)
Frame
Server missile (#5)
Frame
Client missile (#7)
Frame
Frame
Server missile (#6)
Client missile (#8)
Frame
Frame
Client missile (#9)
Frame
Server missile (#7)
Frame
Client missile (#10 -- now the client is done but it's fired three ghost missiles.)
Frame
Frame
Server missile (#8)
Frame
Frame
Frame
Server missile (#9)
Frame
Frame
Frame
Server missile (#10 -- now the server is done. Client has been in extra strafelock for 9 frames while the server was launching invisible missiles.)

I think that data confirms the original hypothesis: that the client fires Strafe missiles at faster intervals than the server does. I think that's enough info to replicate the test if you're interested to try it yourself.

As for *why* this happens, and only with Strafe, I don't know yet but I'll continue digging. Perhaps it's a problem confined to missile-spawning rollbacks, of which Strafe is the only example in the unmodded game. Perhaps it's confined to client 2-frame rollbacks, of which Strafe is also the only example in the unmodded game. Perhaps it does happen for other rollback attacks but nobody has ever noticed since the timing is so short. Fury and Zeal are limited to 5 swings, so the mismatch would never be more than 5 frames, and Dragon Talon is also too fast to notice. Besides Strafe, Fend is the only other rollback attack that would mismatch by more than 5 frames per cycle, and Fend is notorious for desynch and whiff problems.

Hopefully it is ok to use long quotations from elsewhere...

[sneakytails]

This might be a dumb question but does this only effect the realms or is this new breakpoint stuff still stand for Single Player?

Currently leveling a strafer right now in SP HC.

[NASE]

as far as I know, single players works with a client/servers system aswel. So this should be in effect in single player too.

P.S. If you find this more convincing, they made a video in a modded environment showing the fact that you can't run - a server thing - while you appear to have stopped strafing - a client thing. As far as I know, modded environments are only possible in single player.
I might be wrong though.

[sevencreature]

Btw you can notice this even when normally playing with high speed strafe - when you fire the last arrow and want to run (or evade) there is a slight delay.

[Dacar92]

It was found on amazonbasin thought there has been a thread and link about all the information you need.
Blame dacar - though do it nicely - if you can't find the thread. It should be in stickies by now.

I just realized what you said here. I did give permission for someone to post that study here. It was posted, too. Was it CDM? We'll locate the thread.

Thanks sevencreature, that post can definitely stay. Proper credit has been given.

[frostvengeance]

Just so I'm understanding this right - to hit 9/3 - 56% IAS, I should replace 1 shael on my wws with another rune/jewel right?
20 gloves
20 ammy
and in my case i'm thinking about shael/nef = 60%ias.

[KremBanan]

http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/8965/screenshot008ua2.jpg

[frostvengeance]

I have a 38%ed jewel and a 15max dmg jewel. Would it be a waste? How much ias do you have Krem? From where?

[Legedi]

A bit off topic, but has to do with the strafe break points. I'm using a Goldstrike Arch with a total of 120% IAS. I thought I needed this to reach a 9/2. But this doesn't actually exist? All that IAS is wasted basically then. Just checking because I've read so much about this 9/2 break point I was very surprised to stumble across this thread.

[NASE]

Going for /2 breakpoint will indeed lower the number of arrows shot. Though it will shorten your strafe cyclus too. So it's not that clear if it's a bad thing - have a /2 strafe that is.

Now, the problem with your setup is that you are probably pushing to get to that much ias, while it doesn't offer you an extra multi breakpoint. And in that aspect, I'd say you wasted about 30 ias. Certainly as I can imagine that some key equipment will be devoted to ias while it could be filled with more useful mods.
I would rethink you equipment.

[stephan]

Going for /2 breakpoint will indeed lower the number of arrows shot. Though it will shorten your strafe cyclus too. So it's not that clear if it's a bad thing - have a /2 strafe that is.
It shouldn't actually shorten your strafe cycle by more than one frame per cycle and only if you go for 8/2; it doesn't reduce the number of arrows shot. There is simply a desynch between firing on the client and server. You will simply be immobile for the period the arrows are still firing on the server. At least that's how I understand the bug.

In that case it wouldn't be worth it, not taking MS in consideration of course.

[droid]

It should also be mentioned/reminded, as you've been out of it for a while, that you can clean out sockets with hel+town portal tome in the cube, so you can socket it with something cheap now like amn+nef or pskull+nef (i'd go for the mana leech personally), then if you get something better later you want to use like a sweet jewel, you can resocket it.

[loyalpeon]

Can I remind everyone that /2 strafe looks sexy and, as such, should only be abandoned as a last resort?

Strafers can's die anyways.