Berserk vs Sacrifice

[Thirteenth]

Well ive been reading some and Im starting to wonder...

For max damage wouldnt Sacrifice beat Berserk?


Advantages Sacrifice has over Berserk:

You can use Fanat aura yourself instead of merc providing around 400% more ED than having a lvl 15 one from your merc using Faith

Not needing faith you can use an act 2 merc with Might and Pride for even more ED (210% might and 300% Concentration i think)

Total of 910% ED that Berserk doesnt have.


Cons Sacrifice has compared to berserk:

No Mastery meaning around 140% ED is lost.


Total:

770% ED in favour of Sacrifice, also some more IAS for the Paladin


Discussion

Sure theres the matter of Paladin having much lower HP and taking 8% damage himself.

Also there is the matter of the barbarian getting 0 defence and risking ending up in block lock or recovery lock.

Barbarian has howl which is great for crowd control and is really needed for the berserk build since he has no leech.



Still 770% ED would make a differance in the thousands, 42k vs 29k damage in fact.

Either i did my math wrong, or i missed something, or sacrifice is the bigger hitter.

Please tell me i got this wrong or i am starting a sacrifice pala instead of a berserker barb.

[Erwwwd]

What weapon did you have in mind?

With a damage of 42k you will be doing 3360 damage to yourself. Ouch.
To overcome it you'll need 32 % leech I guess, I hope the leech acts simultanously with the drain, I'm not sure about that.

[Thirteenth]

I would have alot of DR% probalby 50% so about 1650 damage, and i would be leeching more than 8%... even in hell.

Im not talking about making the builds viable in hell though... just plain max damage, nothing else unless they are TOTALLY worthless, say a Martyr build with 0 life leech (lol)

[Arbedark]

What weapon did you have in mind?

With a damage of 42k you will be doing 3360 damage to yourself. Ouch.
To overcome it you'll need 32 % leech I guess, I hope the leech acts simultanously with the drain, I'm not sure about that.

Sac is 8% of YOUR life, not 8% of the damage you do...

*hopes he's remembered correctly*

[Erwwwd]

Sac is 8% of YOUR life, not 8% of the damage you do...

*hopes he's remembered correctly*

I'm pretty certain it is the (physical) damage you do, not the total life.

Forgot about damage reduce, this does help as returned damage is physical damage so it has to go through damage reduce before it reaches you. So you only need 16% leech, which is an easy target.

Don't forget to factor in the ""damage reduce %" of the Hell monsters though. Sacrifice is pure physical damage, it's effect will be decreased by the monsters resistance to physical damage (in many cases 66%). Berserk however is of the "magic" damage variety, this will in most cases deal all of its damage.

[Thirteenth]

Ah yes the phys res... thats what gives Berserk the upper hand over Sacrifice... atleast in pvm and most often in Pvp.

And yes, just to make it final, it takes 8% of your DAMAGE not your life. Had it been out of your own life Sacrifice would have been the best build in the game (imo)

[tetracycloide]

I would have alot of DR% probalby 50% so about 1650 damage, and i would be leeching more than 8%... even in hell.

Im not talking about making the builds viable in hell though... just plain max damage, nothing else unless they are TOTALLY worthless, say a Martyr build with 0 life leech (lol)

If that's the case then you want charge + max synergies + might + concentration + fanaticism, much more ED then sacrifice with the added bonus of not one shotting yourself whenever you hit a skeleton.

[Hrus]

With a Grief or any other uber weapon, you would have a lot of KOs with sacrifice. Leech doesn't help allways - there are non-leechable monsters, and imho leech comes after you loose life from sacrifice (not sure though). Lifetap helps but you can't lifetap doors in A5 outer areas, and believe me, they hurt like hell. :)
My martyr (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=423284) thread.


BTW you really can't compare Sacrifice with Zeal. OK, small ED difference (but with Fanaticism, Pride, Fortitude - it's almost negligible). But compare 8/4/4/4/4 uninterruptable attack with 8frame single interruptable attack? HMMMM

[lumpor]

There are basically 4 massive damage skills with big drawbacks right? Sacrifice, charge, berzerk and impale. Which one gives the most ed?

[Thirteenth]

There are basically 4 massive damage skills with big drawbacks right? Sacrifice, charge, berzerk and impale. Which one gives the most ed?

Alone Impale does, and it also adds damage to attack mods

BUT

impale has no synergy which charge and sacrifice have givng them the edge, charge has higher ED and has +% to attack mod which sacrifice doesnt have

Charge would win

[theBanger]

There are basically 4 massive damage skills with big drawbacks right? Sacrifice, charge, berzerk and impale. Which one gives the most ed?

I think you forgot leap attack. And maybe Tigerstrike can be added to that list aswell, though it's not just a 1 hit skill, its +ed% can get really high.

[lumpor]

Oh yeah, forgot leap attack. Tiger strike is a charge-up, so it doesn't really count for me.